29-2 and hotter .44 mag loads

[Buddro]

I plan to try to take a black bear this year with my smith and wesson 29-2 in .44 mag with an 8 1/4 inch barrel. I have taken javelina and an elk in the past with pistols. The plan as of right now is to practice with my Dan Wesson model 15 for a few months, switching to my .44 with target loads shortly before season and running just enough hunting loads through it to be confident in my abilities with the set up. I jumped the gun a little while ago and ordered a number of 240 grain swc from rim rock for the .44 mag. Although I could swear I ordered 260 grain keith style bullets not 240 swc...I had a plan when I ordered bullets however I am a little foggy on what it was so I want to just come right out and ask a few questions.

I am aware that since the introduction of the .44 mag many beefier revolvers have been introduced and the cartridges have been chambered in rifles. I am aware that because of this load data exists for higher pressure cartridges than are smart to run through the model 29s. I own a box of factory loads in fact that says right on it not to shoot the cartridges through anything less than a rifle.

I am wondering what kinds of weight/velocity combinations those of you who do shoot model 29s are shooting. What upper velocity ranges you would consider reasonable for 240 or 260 grain hardcast. And lastly what powders people do well with in higher velocity. 44 mag loads. H110 seems to be one of the more common powders.

[JP@AK]

25 or 30 years ago, I bought several boxes of the 240 grain Hornady Silhouette bullets. These are jacketed bullets with exposed lead on the tip, but the jacket wraps around the exposed lead, locking it in. The bullet is no longer marketed, but I'm sure there are some still around, besides those still in my bullet locker.

My bear load, using those bullets, is 21 grains of 2400, ignited by a CCI Large Pistol Magnum primer. Estimated MV is 1250 fps. Both my Super Blackhawk and my Model 29s shoot this load fine and it gets deep penetration on Mountain Grizzly or large Black Bears. I have yet to shoot a moose with it, but I might try someday, if my legs hold up.

[WILDPIG]

H110 and 240-260s will be fine. But. I would only use H110 if you are an experienced reloader and you read and follow the load instructions in one or two good reloading manuals. H110 likes to run at max and near max. It doesn't play nice downloaded.

As long as you are using good manuals and doing your due diligence, you will easily find a load meeting your needs. Many powders will put you safely in a 1100-1400 fps range with the above bullets in your long barrel.

WILDPIG

[snowman]

I use 26.5gr of H110 and a 210gr JHP, w/Federal LPM primer. Average velocity around 1690 out of an 8-3/8". I'm sure you'll want a heavier, cast bullet for bear as you've indicated, but maybe this will help you in some way. I really like H110 -my favorite. Clean, complete burn; meters flawlessly.

Best wishes with your load and your hunt,
Andy


Note: I'll second the warning against any significant load reduction with H110. I try to go around 2-2.5% below maximum -no more.

[AJ]

Back in my misspent younger days, I had a 29-2 with a 4 ' barrel. Thought about taking a bear with it. Then life got in the way........... I used a couple of pretty warm loads one was 23.9 grains of 2400 with a 200 grain JHP the other was 20.6 grains of 2400 with a 255 grain cast lead slug. Both were pretty stout. I could keep all in a 9 inch paper plate at 100 yards, off hand.

[cowboy4evr]

Many years ago an " old sage " of reloading told me the best H-110 / W296 (same now ) loads was simply fill the case up to the base of the bullet , no air gap and use a " FULL " magnum primer " CCI 350 " not one of those " in between ones " , like winchester and Remington that says for std and magnum use . You will have the best complete burn and accuracy . I have used up several bottles of H-110 using his advise and always found it the best load . How I arrive at it is to take a case , mark with a sharpy pen how far the bullet will be seated in the case . I cut the case off at the line , load it with powder and weigh it and that's my load . No guess work ! Regards Paul
BTW: remember that your 29-2 is not meant for really hot loads as it does not have the endurance pkg . The endurance pkg was an added feature on later 29's for a reason .

[StrawHat]

Back when I thought I needed magnum loads, I used the recipe written by Elmer, 22 grains of 2400 under a 245 grain cast Keith SWC, sparked by a standard primer.

Now that I am older, I have found that a 45 long Colt, black powder and a 260 grain, cast Keith SWC or WFN bullet works at least as well but easier to shoot.

Kevin

[rockquarry]

I stopped loading .44 magnum ammo several years ago. Mild .44 Special loads suit me well these days, but for many years used the #429421 250 grain cast SWC or a similar heavy bullet like the RCBS version. I normally used 19 grs. #2400 or sometimes 22 grs. 296/H110, but discontinued the use of 296/H110 because of the horrendous blast and fireball in comparison with #2400.

I used CCI 300 and CCI 350 primers with both loads and can't recall any difference between the standard and magnum primers. Neither of my loads were maximum, but provided good velocity (around 1100 fps or a bit more in a 6" 29 as I recall) and good accuracy. I've used heavier loads, but my preferred loads were more accurate and more pleasant to shoot. I fired many of these rounds in a 6" 29-2 that I bought new around 1980 and in a 4" 29-3 bought new in 1983. I still have both guns, They remain tight and accurate after many thousands of rounds.

I can't imagine what another 100 - 150 fps velocity would do that my ammo wouldn't unless you're shooting beyond 100 yards.

[Buddro]

Thanks for the input guys, Ill start keeping an eye out for 2400 or h110 to load with when I'm ready to step up to hunting loads. Ill try to send them in the 1200 fps range.

JP@AK theres no season like this season to try for that moose!

[cowboy4evr]

If you're looking for 1200 fps then I would use IMR 4227 . 23-24 grs should definitely get you that velocity . Imr 4227 will definitely benefit with that long barrel length . For a magnum powder it's the only powder that's easy on the gun and easy on the shooter . It is a bit slower than H-110 , single based and is known for delivering accuracy . IMR 4227 , in my opinion " Definitely " needs a full magnum primer --- CCI 350 is my primer of choice . IMR 4227 is my favorite magnum powder for the 44 magnum and 41 magnum . Regards Paul

[JP@AK]

Originally Posted by Buddro

JP@AK theres no season like this season to try for that moose!

Thanks, but I'm not sure I'll get out for moose this year. I am going caribou hunting with my granddaughter-in-law in late August. But I think I'll take my trusty Browning Safari Rifle in 7mm Rem Mag. I've had that rifle for 46 years and it has taken many a game critter over that time. Shot my first bull elk with it back in 1978.

[Biggfoot44]

Semantics ! Lots of cross concepts about what is " Hot " vs " Normal " .44 Mag . Aj's loads above are fairly mild in the context of Magnums . Not an inherent slam ! 1400 with 240- 250 gr , or 300- ish is getting into " Hot .

One way of looking at this , is that the Late , Great , Elmer Keith sucuessfully used 250 SWC @ 1200- ish , to kill anything that walked , or flew , or swam in North America . With your long bbl , you can back off the throttle , and still match what muzzle velocities Elmer was getting from his 4 inches .

There are a plethora of powders to get there .

The classic 2400 and 296/ 110 already mentioned . As long as you don't obsess over so called " dirty " I like 4227 . I even have an all purpose default loading :

Standard for caliber weight cast bullet , WLP primer , load to +/- 95% load density . Of particular note , in various calibers , has never given worse than 1.25 inch @ 25yd accuracy . Not maximum velocities , but more than sufficient , and comparitively mild pressures .

Also AA9 will work well in these parameters , and with comparitively moderate muzzle blast , if you are hunting w/o ear protection . ( Don't laugh , nor pooh - pooh . I fired 2.75 in .44 with heavy load of Blue Dot in the field at game . Exactly Once . " You'll never notice the report during actual hunting " ? Don't believe it . It was painful , and my ears rang the rest of the day . The rest of the hunt , I wore high end electronic ear muffs , thank you very much .

[stansdds]

How many black bear have been successfully killed with factory 44 Magnum ammo? Seeing as how this is a S&W Model 29-2, does not have any of the durability enhancements of the 29-4 or later, and has an 8 3/8 inch barrel, I don't think you really need to load special, hotter than factory ammo. The long barrel definitely favors the use of slow burning pistol powders, so Accurate Arms #9 or H110/W-296 would be good choices, but don't try loading beyond factory ammo ballistics and pressure, the Model 29 simply was not designed for such stuff.

[Buddro]

To clarify I really don't have much of a knowledge base for .44 mag ballistics. I am well versed in terminal ballistic theory and rifle ballistics I just haven't studied .44 mag much yet. I do want to be on the hotter side but not crazy. The problem being with load information out for everything from 2 inch pistols to rifles I am trying to wade through information to define the range of velocities reasonable given the 29-2s lighter build and barrel length. As well as what powders will accommodate that load well.
I dont feel the need to be shooting near absolute max for my gun but I would like to on the higher energy side. assuming I can shoot those loads well.

I am learning a lot from these posts I think I have a good idea of what is reasonable now.

[jake1945]

I like H-110 because 2400 is really 'dirty'.

[Erocksmash]

I run a classic loading of Elmer's/Skeeters writings easily found as I don't want to publish data, 2400 is my go to and at max loadings runs rather clean for me....

[steelslaver]

I am a 45 colt guy, but have a few 44 mags. I am a firm believer that in either of the big bore revolver that even 200fps will NOT make much difference with a decent hit. Neither needs much in the way of expansion, and the heavier bullets penetrate well. Plus, 200 fps will not chance the drop much over reasonable handgun ranges. If you going to be shooting at a big animal at say 150yds, you should be good enough at range estimation, BESIDES being able to hold that kind of accuracy to put the bullet where it belongs despite a couple added inches of bullet drop due to velocity. Practice and accuracy is more important than any 200fps IMHO.

After 150 yds even out of a rifle 44mags start dropping like a rock and you would have to be very very good at range, knowing your ballistics to being shooting game.

[JP@AK]

Originally Posted by steelslaver

After 150 yds even out of a rifle 44mags start dropping like a rock and you would have to be very very good at range, knowing your ballistics to being shooting game.

I shot a griz once with my Ruger 77 Ultralight .30-06 at just over 100 yards. I took a nice blackie boar at about 75 yards with the same gun - he was running hard for cover.

All my other bears have been killed at 50 yards or less. Most of the time, long shots make no sense to me, especially with a handgun.

[steelslaver]

I have killed a quite a bit of game in my time. The vast majority within 100yds. There have been some long shots up to about 400 yds, but all with a rifle and some form of rest. Even with a rifle after about 200yds I want some kind of rest. I now carry one of those collapsible sticks with the fork on top.

[AJ]

Originally Posted by steelslaver

I have killed a quite a bit of game in my time. The vast majority within 100yds. There have been some long shots up to about 400 yds, but all with a rifle and some form of rest. Even with a rifle after about 200yds I want some kind of rest. I now carry one of those collapsible sticks with the fork on top.

It has been many, many years since we had to qualify without a rest at 200,300 & 500 yards. Don't even know if I can see that far anymore. Maybe with a scope!

[steelslaver]

Yes, but wearing a shooting jacket and glove all wrapped up in the sling laying prone is about as good as any field rest. I always had trouble at the 200yd off hand. I always maxed out the 500 prone on wither course. Plus, now my rifles all have nice scopes. The range here goes from 100 to 600 so I am pretty familiar with each. The only ones I fire at 600 are my 300 and 3338 win mags, but should figure out the 6.5 Creedmoore. Hard to find that good a rest for anything but prairie dogs. Then I just pile some bags on my truck hood.

[AJ]

Originally Posted by steelslaver

Yes, but wearing a shooting jacket and glove all wrapped up in the sling laying prone is about as good as any field rest. I always had trouble at the 200yd off hand. I always maxed out the 500 prone on wither course. Plus, now my rifles all have nice scopes. The range here goes from 100 to 600 so I am pretty familiar with each. The only ones I fire at 600 are my 300 and 3338 win mags, but should figure out the 6.5 Creedmoore. Hard to find that good a rest for anything but prairie dogs. Then I just pile some bags on my truck hood.

Never wore a shooting jacket or a glove after I got out of Boot Camp. Qualified nine times on the KD Course after that.

[derek45auto]

10.grs. UNIQUE or 9.0grs UNIVERSAL with a 240gr SWC makes a fine 1050 fps practice load. It's a problem solver that won't beat you or the 29 up.

A max load of H110/win296 over a 240-310gr will fix any troubles your have. Load like this are hard on the older 29.






Keith's excellent 44 SWC ( Arsenal #503 is my favorite mold)




LEE 310gr.

[Buddro]

Does anyone have experience with vihtavuori 110? I know it's not a duplicate of h110 and its a little costly. But it's mighty close in burn rate and more importantly a local sporting goods store has a few 1 pounders of it in stock. It might be just the ticket for my 240 grain hunting loads.

[derek45auto]

Originally Posted by Buddro

Does anyone have experience with vihtavuori 110? I know it's not a duplicate of h110 and its a little costly. But it's mighty close in burn rate and more importantly a local sporting goods store has a few 1 pounders of it in stock. It might be just the ticket for my 240 grain hunting loads.

buy a few lbs if that's the only magnum powder they have

[DeplorabusUnum]

I shoot a load that I really like from my 6" 629-1. It's 21.6 gr of IMR 4227 pushing a 250 gr cast lead projectile. Accuracy is very good, it averages 1193 ft/s, and recoil is stout but very manageable. In your pistol I'm sure it would get you over 1200 ft/s.

[M29since14]

The .44 shouldn’t need anything at all in the way of fancy bullets or powder for what you have in mind. Any decent cast bullet in the 250-275 grain range, 19-20 grains of #2400, and standard Federal large pistol primers should give you around 1250-1300 FPS (in an 8-inch barrel), should not be too hard on your revolver, and should shoot into 5-6 inches at 100 yards from a good 29-2. A friend, who is a bit better shot than I am, can usually hit a clay bird with this load at 100 using my 629, which has a red dot sight, to aid our old eyesight. It does everything I expect a .44 Magnum revolver to do. Just make sure your bullet “fits” your gun. All 29-2s I have seen have very large exit bores (0.432-0.433”, generally) and are well served by the biggest bullet you can stuff in them. In my experience, with US commercial .44 brass, that is about 0.4325”, for my guns.

[Snapping Twig]

My favorite load is a 260g Lyman 429244 over 22g H110/W296 with a non magnum LP, typically Winchester.

Very accurate and if my info is correct (no chrono), it's @ 1200fps.

For fun, I use a 250g Lyman SWC mould and load it over 7g W231/HP38.

Somewhere in the 900fps range and I would consider it good for most things out to wherever a 45lc would be used since it's basically the same thing.

[Drm50]

I’ve only got one 44mag that I shoot heavy loads in. A Ruger SBH. I’ve shot 240gr JHPs ( now XTPs ) over 22.5 gr of H-2400. Been shooting that since 1960s, only in that SBH. It shoots that load or I would be backing it down several clicks. The 29s I only shoot cast at moderate velocities. If I was shooting a bear with cast, I wouldn’t go crazy on velocity. All I’ve ever used for magnum loads was 2400. I got a pound of H-110 and was going to check it out. Mostly for Marlin 94 / 240g XTP for deer. Sold rifle and have never cracked the seal on the 110.
I shot a deer with 242gr cast WC at 750fps with Unique in a 83/8” m25.
Classic shot at about 30yds, shot through deer. Unless you are dealing with grizzly something like 1100 to 1200 FPS would be plenty.

[Benchrest1]

My heavy load for 44 mag is an Oregon Trail 310 WNFPGC with 21 grains of H110 in a Fed case and a Fed mag primer.

[old tanker]

My standard load for the 44 Magnum since the can said DuPont has been 23 gr. IMR4227 under a Lyman 429421 cast from wheelwieghts. It was accurate enough to shoot silhouette when that game was popular. Two hundred meter rams fell over and it did not lead.

Took a couple of whitetails, worked fine, no problems.

[snowman]

Originally Posted by Buddro

Does anyone have experience with vihtavuori 110? I know it's not a duplicate of h110 and its a little costly. But it's mighty close in burn rate and more importantly a local sporting goods store has a few 1 pounders of it in stock. It might be just the ticket for my 240 grain hunting loads.

I've burned more VV N110 than any other powder, but I've used it only in .357s. That's not because I don't think it would be a good powder in .44s -I just decided to try H110 for those, and stayed with it.

I'm well satisfied with N110 and would recommend it to anyone. The only downside is that, since it is a stick powder(I'm thinking that all VV's powders are -may be exceptions), it doesn't meter quite as consistently, at least in my experience. The fellows who test loads at Sierra Bullet recommended I use a magnum primer with it, and I followed their advice. As I recall, they said that ignition improved for them when they used magnum primers, especially in cold weather testing.

Regards,
Andy

[cowboy4evr]

I agree with old tanker : 23 grs of 4227 has been my 44 magnum load using the Keith 245gr swc for years . It's a very accurate load , has plenty of power , yet easy on the gun and easy on the shooter . Regards Paul

[jcelect]

I have many 240gr XTPs down the barrel of my 10 5/8" 29-3 Silhouette with H110 @ 24grs. This is a hot load which REQUIRES mag primers, I use Federals because of my light triggers. I would be careful of lead loads at this level, 1300-1400fps, which can cause leading problems. I would suggest gas checks(pictured above). Practicing with a lighter load is fine to acquaint yourself with the gun but you must fire enough of your hunting load to become proficient at any yardage! My outer limit was 200yds, from a rest(a tree, a large rock, my backpack on the ground, tree stand rail, etc.)
jcelect

[DB404]

Black bear aren’t exactly brown bears. If you’re shooting over a bait station a 1200 fps load will work well and be easy on your 29-2. If you want more thump try 23.5 gr of Win 296 with a CCI 350 primer and a good quality 250 grain cast bullet that slips through your guns throats with thumb pressure. I also use a 300 grain LBT LFN GC over 21.5 gr of Win 296. I wore out a 29-2 6.5” shooting the 250 gr Keith bullet (429421) over 21.0 gr of 2400 and a standard large pistol primer. The W296 load is a tiny bit more accurate and a wee bit less pressure. Practice with 9.5 gr of Unique under a 250 cast bullet with standard large pistol primer. It is accurate and gives 1030 fps from my 4” 29-2.
Have fun! Dave

[Buddro]

Thanks for the advice guys. I just got ahold of an 8 pounder of h110, I may be able to get some gas checked bullets between now and the hunt but if not I am sure I can make something work with what I have. I will let you know how it goes.

Btw, the hunt will be spot and stalk. If I am not 100 percent on my shooting before the hunt I will fall back on my bow or the wsm.