Actually the problem you describe is that your money is not worth what it once was.... So, to fetch the value of a gun, one must throw more money at it. It is 'supply and demand' on steroids because there is more money chasing the things we want. (Have you taken your family out to eat recently and looked at the bill?) It is not the 'fault' of GunBroker. GB only gives you a clear view of what things are actually selling for. If high 'pricing' was the problem, people wouldn't pay the piper, and with active auctions, the price is set by the buyer (again, that pesky supply and demand thing). With prices set by the buyer, the days of haggling are pretty much over. The exception may be private sales and sales at gun shows (but have you seen any gun show prices that were even remotely within reason?)
Bottom line: There are far too many dollars out there chasing everything around. Then there are 'shortages' (gasoline, ammunition, sometimes guns, etc.) which compound the problem. We are going to have to deal with this for a while, so try not to be bitter about it.... use it as a learning experience and ponder it the next time you go to the polls.

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NRA Endowment Member

The idiots are worse at shows when they have some buddies with them to preform for. I’m old, anymore I won’t suffer a fool. I run em off pronto. They ain’t going to buy anything anyway.

My elder son is a service adviser at a large auto dealership. You should hear some of the stories he tells...

Most recently, a longtime customer brought her car in for service and asked my son to check her brakes, as the car is not stopping properly. Turns out the pads and discs are worn out, and one caliper is frozen. My son quotes her a price, using OEM parts, of course. She hems and haws, indicates she's short on time, and asks if they can do it while she waits. My son says yes, and splits the job, puts two techs on it, so they can get it done asap.

When they are almost finished, the woman tells my son to stop work and reinstall her old brakes, because she's just called her brother and he told her he can do the job using aftermarket parts, and of course won't charge her for labor. She starts crying -- literally -- and complaining about how the dealership has screwed her...

Of course, the dealership cannot, and will not, re-install worn-out, unsafe parts. They offer to price the parts they installed at their cost, and discount the labor, but no, she wants them to put her old brakes back on, so her brother can do the job.

In the end, the service manager told the techs just to finish the job, and get her out of there. The dealership ultimately charged her nothing for the brake job...they ate the entire cost. They did tell her to find another dealership, as they will never work on her car again...

But aren’t you disregarding the fact that in a true auction, the seller agrees to sell at whatever price the high bidder offers, regardless of what it is. At private sales and gun shows, the seller can refuse to sell . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

You are right. That is not addressed directly by my statements. At a good auction it becomes a delicate balance of encouraging bidders to bid to the limit where they themselves set the value, discouraging shilling, collusion, and other cheating, and maximizing revenues for the auctioneer (and/or property owner). That actually takes a lot of skill, effort, and knowledge on behalf of the auctioneer. There are several types of auctions, and I don't want to try to describe all the differences here, so I'll confine it to several of the larger on-line auctions. Some formats do not 'protect' the seller, as an example an 'absolute auction' where items go to the highest bidder, and the bidding starts well below any estimated value (often called a 'penny auction'). Some auctions protect the seller by placing a 'reserve' on an item, or a limit that must be met or exceeded before the item is declared sold. Some auctions start at the price the seller wants to realize. And some are not auctions, but rather an offer to sell at a stated price. In the latter three instances the seller does not necessarily agree to sell to the highest bidder.
There is an element of faith needed by the seller for the 'absolute' auction. To maximize faith, the selection of a good auctioneer is essential. A good auctioneer on the big sites generally has a following of clientele and provides exceptional descriptions including many high-res pictures. They know what they have and present it well. Several sellers come to mind - Woodlawn Boys, Jack-the-Dog, Sarah, Bryant Ridge, and there are many more. Some are better than others in certain ways, but my observation is that when they do an absolute auction, the price realized is most often well beyond my bidding limit.
So back to your point; yes, often the seller agrees to sell at whatever price the high bidder offers, regardless of what it is. And if executed well by a 'professional', the hammer price usually matches or exceeds the seller's expectations. It takes some faith to buy into that concept, but a bit of faith (and a competent agent/auctioneer) can yield some interesting returns. Those without the open arms of faith can choose an auction with a reserve, a high opening bid, or a set sales price. From personal experience, starting an absolute auction with a very low entry bid can be disturbing, but if well done, quite rewarding.
So, it is a different atmosphere striking a deal with an individual or at a gun show. It is usually a sort of reverse where a price is advertised and the buyers haggle for a lower price. And pricing by a seller could be way off either way, high or low.
It's all supply and demand no matter how it is sliced or diced, just different ways of finding that sweet spot where a potential buyer reaches in the pocket and pulls out the cash.
Sorry to have gone on so long, but it is a complex subject when you get into the weeds.

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NRA Endowment Member

I had acquired a 6” Model 686 ND without grips, so I put a set of like new smooth combats (factory) on it, kept it for a while and shot it very little. I decided I didn’t really need it, so walked it around at a fairly large local show where an elderly party (also in the aisles, not a dealer) asked me about it and for a price. I said, “my absolute best price is $X” to which he countered with an offer of $25 or $50 less. I said no, and that the price had just risen by $25. When he walked away then came back offering my original price I told him the gun was no longer for sale to him at any price. Obviously I’ve shortened a longer story, but he followed me around trying to get me to sell it to him for another 15 minutes or so before giving up.

I went home, swapped out the grips for a much cheaper set of factory targets, then took it to the next (smaller) show where a dealer bought it for my original, higher asking price. I later sold the grips at a good price as well.

“You’ve gotta know when to hold ‘em, know when to fold ‘em, know when to walk away…”

Froggie

I recently sold my NIB unfired 60-14 LadySmith .357.
I sent an email with details to several friends and I was asking $550 for it.
It didn't take long and the first reply was, "if you still have it I'll take it".

I delivered it yesterday. Doug pulled out $550 cash and handed it to me, I gave him back $150.

He said, "I thought you said $550?".

I did but I only paid $400 for it and I just don't feel good making money off close friends.

Not one reply asked if I could do better.

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Kenny
Endeavor to persevere.

I am not a haggler per se, but I do negotiate, especially if I am on the fence about whether I want to buy a piece or not. Often times a small discount will move me from I don't know to yes. On the other hand, I like to let the other guy win about half the time and if, if the price seems fair, I agree to the asking price. And I never ask for a discount unless I have already made up my mind to buy if I get one.

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Robert
SWCA #2906, SWHF #760

This past weekend I attended a show in Vegas where I used a combination of, “What’s your best price?”, Will you take less?” or “Will you go_____?” I didn’t get one complaint nor seem to offend one seller. As a result I saved $375 on a NIB, 4” Colt Python and $350 on a NIB, CZ Checkmate Parrot.

I make these offers knowing what the approximate, current value for a particular piece is and betting the seller pads his/her price knowing they’ll likely be given offers of less than their asking prices. That said, some stand firm on their price and, if I want it bad enough, I’ll pay the asking price. Otherwise, I compliment them on their hardware and thank them before heading to the next table. Conversely, when I ask about a price, some sellers will state, “I have a little room”, “Make me an offer, “If you want it, I can go______”, etc. I work and travel all over the world and experience the same or similar rules.

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213th FBINA

Exactly! It really is this straightforward. It's just a talk between seller and prospective buyer to settle on a price. Some folks manage to make it a hassle, though. At gun shows, flea markets, garage sales, car/truck dealers I anticipate some wheeling and dealing.

What did surprise me was learning that some major companies will bargain with you. Specifically, cable TV, my home alarm company and satellite radio. Complain about the price and you can easily get a price reduction. With satellite radio in particular, I set an annual calendar reminder to cancel my service. Sometimes it's more work to secure the discount, and I've carried through with cancelling a few times. Other times, they just give me the discount right away to get me off the phone.

Persistence can pay off with satellite radio. Cancel and you'll start getting discount emails begging you to come back. Generally, I get a discounted price of 1/3 the uncontested price. Granted we're talking maybe $10 / month, but it's the principle of the thing. They probably expect most people to pay up without complaint. Those that do complain, get a discount with the expectation they will forget on the next go-around. Those that remember - like me - get the cheaper price, but it doesn't cost much if anything to retain a subscriber.

Why do they do this? It's the $$ of course. This business practice helps the bottom line. Admittedly, it's a little irksome that seemingly firm, fixed-price services do this. Once you know, it can be used to your advantage. Pricing and selling non-essentials is always a two-way deal.

Haggling about gun deals is, to me, like horse trading. I'm not insulted by someone asking if it is my lowest price and I often ask if the seller is firm on a price, unless the price appears very good at the outset. One thing that does bother me is that some folks knowingly sell defective guns. I can't abide that.

Sometimes people just don't know when a good deal is smacking them right there in front of their face. Sounds like a similar ordeal I had with a relative who was looking for something in 357. I offered him an old model 66 I just don't shoot much anymore and because he was family I offered it for under $400. He declined. Said he wanted something new. Okay, well that gave me the incentive of keeping it for myself. I don't even want to sell it anymore.

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Ephesians 6 (Armor of God)

If you haven't shopped in an Arab bazaar, you are in for an experience. Go into a rug vendor, sit down, share some tea or coffee, and with an interpreter, hear about his starving family, having to support his brother's family, how his home was washed away in the last rain storm, how he can't even really afford the tea he just made up for the two of you. You complement his rugs, he smiles, more about his daughter who can't find anyone to marry her, confer with your interpreter, and an hour later, come to some mutually acceptable price. You are happy, he is pleased to have fleeced another dumb American.

Once, in Morocco, at a high end leather store, asked if the young Moroccan counter girl could try on a nice leather jacket for me to see how it might look on my wife. Looked nice, so told the woman owner of the store I would take it. The two of them conferred, and the owner said the counter girl was mine if I wanted to take her too.

Ah, the excitement of overseas travel.

All the best,,, SF VET

Counter girls notwithstanding, horse trading is a big part of the experience in whatever country you happen to be in; it’s expected, even at US gun shows and LGS.

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213th FBINA

You should have said "so is your clipboard- how many trucks you been inspectin"?

One of my pet peaves is when a possible buyer ignores my admonition that my listed prices are as low as I will go, and makes an offer below my minimum. I guess cheapskates never pay attention in their compulsion to try and get a better deal.

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FBINA, 204th Session

Speaking from experience, it’s because they quite frankly don’t believe your admonition. I’ve bought guns at a price lower than the seller claimed was his bottom dollar, and I don’t mind getting the stinkeye if the seller says no. Like others have mentioned, discussing sale price with a handful of Benjamins has the potential to work miracles. I’ve seen it happen . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

This is quite the thread! Opinions and experiences sure do vary.

At a pre-Covid local show I found an 8 3/8ths 586, a barrel length I didn't have in any model, and wasn't really sold on to begin with. Still, it would be my first L frame so I offered a bit less. He countered only $5 up but I held. He said "You'd walk away over 5 bucks?!" I gave a little laugh and said "I could say the same thing about YOU!" That made him laugh in acknowledgment and we made the deal.

I realized that negotiating is a lot more pleasant when the item isn't something you necessarily really want. Of course now it's grown on me and I've put a nicer set of Walnut target stocks on it.

At an earlier show I made an offer on a 4" 617-4 and the seller made a face like "Oooh, you are SO close!" He then cautiously countered up $5 and I took it home. Now that model I had been pricing and had no intention of walking away without it. I was there when the gates opened and was probably one of his first visitors, so I was a bit surprised he didn't hold out.

Both gentlemen had enjoyable personalities and I felt comfortable in making offers. I still look for them at the shows, not because I think I can get better deals but their friendly vibes made for good buying experiences.

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That's for sure! At one show, I had a Ruger No. 1 for sale laying on the table. A guy came by and wanted to trade a bolt action for my Ruger. I wasn't really interested since I was after the cash, not another rifle. A while later he came back and offered $100 plus the bolt rifle. Still not interested. He came back a few times more and by the time he got to $300 plus his rifle I was paying attention. Deal! That's how I acquired a pre-war .30 Gov't '06 Model 70.

Seems like this thread highlights the difference between wannabes/lookylous and real buyers ready to perform but who want to negotiate.


Big difference.


I spent a lot of years as a yacht broker and developed the skill to determine who might be real if I had what they wanted.


Many sailboat "buyers" were the worst. They were excited to share their ten year "plan" to sell their appreciating asset home and put that money into a depreciating retirement cruiser to liveaboatd.



They were easily offended when I didn't show the appropriate interest in their "dream."


My stock answer was that neither they nor I had a clue where we would be in ten years but as a commissioned salesman my priority was now so.....?


That said, there were times when I had nothing else to do and took the opportunity to show inventory that I hadn't yet seen so that I would be ready when a real buyer was looking for that product.



As for gun shows/car dealers, etc, I personally never discuss price unless I am prepared to buy if I like the number.


All good.

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Chris S.
Fort Lauderdale, FL

I don’t think the negotiation is the issue as much as the manner in which the negotiation is done.

I’m pretty thick-skinned when someone makes a low-ball offer; it doesn’t bother me to say “no,” and I understand that “value” is a subjective thing. It doesn’t hurt my feelings if you think a particular item is worth less than I do.

But I understand not everyone is this way, so when I negotiate a price I try not to be a jerk about it. If a gun is priced a little level higher than I want to pay, I’ll ask the seller if he or she has any room to move on the price. Typically they’ll look at the tag, think for a minute, and the dance begins. If they tell me their price is firm I don’t try to beat them down. I also try to to quibble over a few bucks; karma is a thing.

Bottom line: just be nice.

The ones that get to me are the flippers, always want a deal, deal then take it to their table and add few 100 to price. In almost 50 years of shows( mostly militaria) my good friends and I could write a book as well as many forum members, LOL.

I've seen that too...and when someone else stops by to look at it and asks some history...they go on and on. Really dude, you just bought it! Oh well, none of my business...but ya, you see it all at gun shows.

Couple of things that work for me.

I never say "will you take $xx.xx?"

Rather I make a commitment: "I will give you $XX.XX.

Like the ham and egg breakfast, the hen made a contribution. The hog is all in.

I recently came across a partially refurbed Russian Tula SKS priced at $350. Told the guy on the phone I would give $300. He said no but he would through in some ammunition.

Went to see the rifle with $350 in hand and we shook on the deal. He brings out the ammo. 1500 rounds. I told him he was underpriced the package. He stuck to the deal, said it was his father's rifle and he was happy it was going to someone who appreciated it.

I have a longtime friend I no longer offer to sell things to. He’s like you mentioned in the quote. He’ll spend a day or two trying to beat you down on price then back out of the deal. I sold him a Leica camera once at a pretty good price. The next day he brought it back and wanted his money back. I gave him his money back and sold it on line for substantially more. Ever since he says he wished he’d kept it. Tough! Never again will I offer anything to him at any price. Ive seen him do this many times since then and brag about beating the guy down then backing out of the deal. It’s just sport to him.

I don't mind offers, easy to say no but thanks for the offer. If I list it for my lowest price I'll just say no offers, please.

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Vietnam 1969-1971

Yep, no means no. If I see $XXX "firm" on the price tag and it's more than I want to drop, I'll compliment the seller on his hardware and keep walking.

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213th FBINA

I don’t, and I can tell you that you’ve missed out on a bunch of fine firearms . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

As a seller, my price is firm means my price is firm. If someone makes an offer beneath my firm price, they just aren't listening. As a buyer I will never make an offer if I think the price is fair, I will pay it. If someone doesn't like my price, they should just walk.

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FBINA, 204th Session

I get haggling. It is just part of the gun buying / selling process for many.
Usually it is good natured and the banter back and forth is kind of entertaining especially when I have something a haggler really wants.
What I will not suffer is a low baller. Make me an offer any lower than 20% below my asking price and we are done. No point in saying anything except goodbye.

In that case you are not as interested in selling as you are in keeping face. You would rather wait months for your price than do a deal now-which is perfectly OK and totally legitimate. I make offers all the time to a "firm Price" sticker anf if no then it's no.Not to be rude and apologies if this offends you, but my business IS negotiations and I'm talking about BIG LIFE CHANGING MONEY in pre trial mediations and EVERYTHING is negotiable. If a party doesn't want to negotiate that just means he is more than willing to roll the dice at trial and accept the risk (of loss or gain) than he is in concluding the deal. In your case not negotiating just means you are willing to sit on your wares for as long as it takes to get your price. In my experience at gunshowd and mediations is that there is NO SUCH THING as a non-negotiable position which is why I will ask.
Years ago I was like you and thougt the negotiation game was pointless and that I was not going ot participate. I would present my bottom line fair settlement demand ans asserting that I would not take one penny less. As I was the only lawyer doing this, nobody believed me and after having to spend $20,000 taking it to trial, I got my original demand but the stress and time it took to both me and my client FAR outweighed the strategy. I learned a hard lesson that ya just have to play the game. Gunshows are not as intense or life changing as 7 figure mediations, but I can assure you the principles are the same. I don't have to like to dance, but if I want to get lucky later on that night I'm a gonna dance!!!

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Forum consigliere

Caj makes a good point.


Try this at the next gun show- decide what your "firm" price is. If it is $550, tag the item at $600, and give yourself room to come down $50. You might be surprised. Some people just can't bring themselves to buy if they can't "get it for less than the guy wanted".

I have a friend that mentored me on gun trading in my 20s. Trust me here- he could sell guns! If he had a gun out for sale for two weeks and it didn't sell, he'd say "Yeah, I'm gonna have to go up on the price to ever move it."
He'd do just that- go up on the price so he could give a deeper discount, and he'd sell it!

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

Gun sellers are either guys who want to sell and move on or guys who only want to show off under the guise of selling.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

As a seller, there is nothing wrong about being open to negotiations.

As a seller, there is nothing wrong with being firm on your price.

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FBINA, 204th Session

Sometimes it helps if they add a little something to "Sweeten the Pot". I once was hmming and hawing on a 6" 28-2 and the seller didn't want to come down on his price. I can respect a persons "firm" price but figured it wouldn't hurt to ask if he could include a box of ammo from his table (this was when prices were closer to normal). He looked at his supply and said he didn't have any .357 or .38 Special. I pointed to a box of .44 mag and said I did have a 629. He shrugged and handed me the box, and I went home with a nice S-prefix model with diamond target stocks.

I'm not the sharpest knife in the, uh..., place where they keep the knives, but I reckon a seller wants to finish the show with as much money and as little product as possible. This way we both win.

On the other hand, everyone likes to feel like they got a deal. Nobody tells their friends how they convinced a seller to take his full asking price.

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Just Say No - To Social Media

When buying or selling a anything used, hagglin' is a way of life and should always be expected. New can have set prices, but used is always negotiable.
Heck, hagglin' is often the best part of the deal.