Was at the range yesterday just shooting some guns. When it was this M10’s turn started out with my standard reload which shoots very well and was just plinking away having fun.
I had purchased some 148gr WC from a forum member and reloaded 50 with some Unique to see how they worked. The M10-5 sights are not designed for target work so I was just having fun.
First group at 12yds it shot this like this.
I than proceeded to shot the rest of the box. Hitting clay birds on the berm was easy at 25yds, holding a little low and right.
Fixed sight revolvers in .38spl are pretty amazing to me.



The particulars, 1976 M10-5. 3.8grs of Unique, 148gr button nose wadcutter, OAL 1.290.

It is what it is.
Sometimes you have the joy of stumbling onto "just right" and your revolver shows you!

WYT-P
Skyhunter

Think the shooter had just a little bit to do with it...nice job.

I like your light barreled 10. It looks like a really nice one.
Always thought they were a good looking gun, and I hope to have one some day to match my heavy barreled 10.

Mine is a 10-7 or 8 cant remember for sure, with a heavy barrel. that shoots remarkably well for a fixed sight gun.
It shoots where its supposed to with a Lyman 358- 477, cast bullet weighing in at about 158 grains, pushed with 3.5 grs of Bullseye.
Same load that I shoot in all my other 38's.

A good fixed sight revolver will shoot as tight a group as an adjustable sight one. You just can't move the group around with the sights. Good shooting there! Beautiful gun, too.

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protocalldesign.com

There's something about a Model 10 that's very appealing. It meets the old criteria of "necessary" and "sufficient." Everything you need and nothing you don't. I have a 2" Model 10 that fits the bill. It shares a lineage with my "blingy" nickel Model 15 and my more purposed K38. The plain old Model 10 makes me grin more than the other two.

Nice gun, nice shooting OP! You have a keeper.

Thanks for the compliment, but I can shoot a lot worse than this too. 😂

Your M10 really identifies as a target gun, please don't tell it otherwise....

Randy

The gun is only a part of the equation.

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NEVER GIVE UP YOUR GUN

Nice shooting!! I know I am very old school but I still prefer fixed sighted handguns over the target ones. They make you learn to shoot rather than how to continuously use a screw driver.

Is a Model 15 a target gun?
Is a Model 66 a target gun?
Is a Model 686 a target gun?

What makes a gun a "Target Gun"?

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NEVER GIVE UP YOUR GUN

I have a model 64 that will shoot anything in a tight group.I also have some model 10s that are the same. What makes a target gun? well the target of course.

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God save the SOUTH

My HB 10-6 won a bunch of target matches. Most accurate revolver I have .
Jim

I've had a 10-5 4" tapered barrel as my bedside revolver for 40 years. Purchased it from a buddy for $100 in 1982 and it was my 1st of many S&W's. Definitely a keeper.
Nice revolver you have and you obviously know how to hit your target.
Nice shooting!
Thanks for sharing
Ray

The 10-6 is a great revolver.
I carried mine on duty for 20 years.

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NEVER GIVE UP YOUR GUN

For me, in this instance, it would be a K-38 or a M14. 6” barrel, adjustable sights that have less light showing on the sides and a straight flat topped rear sight.
M10’s have more light on the sides of the sight and the frame at the rear is somewhat rounded. That makes it harder to get a consistent, repeatable sight picture.
M10 was designed for a more duty situation, while the K-38 was designed to shoot at paper.
I suppose any revolver that is shooting at paper targets could be called a target revolver. 😁
Just my opinion.

For S&W revolvers it simply means a barrel of at least 6 inches in length, a fully adjustable rear sight, and the front sight is most likely going to be of the Patridge style. As for the Model 10 not being a target gun, S&W used the same equipment to make all the parts of the Model as they did to make the Model 14, so intrinsic accuracy is not likely to vary much between a Model 10 and a Model 14. The difference is in the trigger action, sight picture, and sight radius when the revolver is fired by hand rather than from a Ransom Rest.

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VCDL, GOA, NRA

Here's a fixed sight 44 hand ejector at 7 yards.

20161002_143426.jpg

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Robert
SWCA #2906, SWHF #760

poor thing thinks its a target gun...probably old and suffering memory loss, dont break its heart and tell it diferrent..I have one suffering also

We love the model 10s because as you've shown SS336 there's really not much that it can't do or hasn't already done.

To me, it's anything with adjustable sights and a 6" or longer barrel.

So..
No
Maybe
Maybe

My first service revolver was a Model 10-5. Bright shiny deep blue with gorgeous walnut stocks. I was in love instantly. I still have that revolver, although it isn't as shiny and the stocks are worn with a few nicks and scratches, but then so do I. I fall in love again each time I take it on a range date.

So my 5" 625-2 would not qualify to be called a Target Gun?

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NEVER GIVE UP YOUR GUN

Most folks definition would include adjustable sights. That’s about the only difference in a Model 15 and a heavy barrel Model 10.

Years ago I shot squirrels with mine(just like yours) with a light charge pushing a 150 gr cast semi wadcutter. Didn't tear them up any worse than a .22 LR.

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S&W Accumulator

Any gun can be a "target gun" has nothing to do with the type of sights. It has everything to do with the guns accuracy, and the shooters ability to wring out every bit of said accuracy.

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Randy

This is a quote from Doug Wesson, published in his book, "Burning Powder".

"It might be well to say at this point that the same barrels, cylinders, chambering, rifling and reaming that are used in our target arms are found in our service arms, and the accuracy of the two types of arms is identical".

The chapter is "Hand-Arm Accuracy".

Keep in mind, Doug Wesson is speaking of mechanical accuracy, as you find when shooting from a bench or machine rest. Intrinsic shootability is a different (and subjective) matter.
With that being said, once you start shooting matches at regulation distances with regulation targets, the necessity of target sights is readily apparent. (I'm talking about real Bullseye match shooting.) You need to have your groups centered on the target for your preferred sight picture/hold.
If you're shooting outdoor Bullseye, where the slowfire part is done at 50 yds, you also have to contend with changing light and sometimes wind. I have personally experienced a shift in groups just from having light conditions change on the target. Similarly, if you are not under cover, the sun will change your perception of the front sight if it is rounded or even a Baughmann profile. This is where a Patridge or undercut King front sight pays dividends in your match scores.

Also, you have to think about the trigger and hammer style on your revolver. For the timed and rapid fire stages, you have to cock the hammer with your shooting hand thumb, all while trying to recover your sights back on target during each five shot string. The target hammer is designed to make that a bit easier. Something like the King "Cockeyed" hammer takes the concept even further. (This is worth using the forum "search" function if you are unfamiliar with King target revolver conversions.)
Wide, grooved target triggers are intended to spread the pressure needed to release a single action aimed shot across the pad of your index finger, thus giving a sense of less trigger weight. Once the trigger releases, the grooved trigger and a properly fitted trigger stop helps maintain good follow-through. This is essential for avoiding "pulled" shots to the right or left.

Anyhow, that's the idea behind how S&W set up their target revolvers.

At a point in time, S&W deemed revolvers with adjustable sights to be "target guns". This point in time was the mid 1920's---can't say when it started----can't say when it stopped (if it stopped). The perhaps most obvious difference besides the sights was (S.A.) trigger pull---3-4 lbs. for target guns, 5-7 lbs. for fixed sight guns. They didn't come right out and say their fixed sight guns were getting a bad rap, but they did make a BIG point the adjustable sight guns were different---but not necessarily better. Some of their lingo: "Exactly the same difference exists between a hunting rifle and one made especially for target shooting, they are of equal quality but each is best for the kind of work it is designed to do." That said, on May 1, 1929, the order to "Change pull on all H.E. to 3 1/2-5 1/2 lbs. per V.E. Wesson." came along. That's when the order was issued. As an aside, I checked the S.A. pull on the 14 M&P Targets hailing from 1910 to 1936 in my collection of S&W target guns, and each of them was 3 1/2 lbs. During the period they were openly treating target guns to different but not better treatment, that went like this: "For these reasons a special type of trigger pull is desirable-----not by any means simply a very light pull, but one having the peculiar quality termed "short and crisp" by shooters. This not only requires a special type of notch and trigger point, but requires a different adjustment of the working parts of the action."

The quotations herein are from the S&W catalog circa 1925. The bottom line of all this is there was a time when there were considerable differences between fixed sight and target guns. As it stands now, and without considerably more investigation and research, we can say when some of that time was-------but not when it wasn't.

Ralph Tremaine

I'll disagree. While it's possible to wring equal results out of a service revolver and a target gun, it's not easy. Look to those that shoot organized target events such as NRA Bullseye/Precision Pistol or any of the International/Olympic disciplines. You won't see any fixed-sight, short barreled, guns on the line. Not one.

You are absolutely correct!
For proof, compare the guns allowed, and the resultant scores, under NRA Bullseye rules and CMP Service pistol rules. The course of fire is very similar. However, under NRA rules guns can have optical sights, orthopedic grips, very light trigger jobs, etc. The CMP rules are very restricted. Sights must be "as issued" iron sights. No external modifications are allowed, etc.
CMP publishes a list of allowed pistols for their service pistol matches. Some are more akin to a "target" pistols, others not so much. In keeping with the topic of this thread, the S&W model 10 is allowed. So is the model 15, with it's adjustable sights. Lots of guys choose the 15. I've never heard of anyone choosing the 10, despite it's accuracy and other attributes.

Up until a couple decades ago, there was a Service Pistol match held in the UK in which the rules stated the only allowed guns were unmodified, as-issued bonafide service arms made on or before Armistice Day, Nov. 11, 1918. It was a difficult match, one hand firing using the ISU precision pistol target at 25 meters.
In this particular case, yes, a period-correct, fixed sight revolver as made by S&W or Colt made a fine "target" pistol.

But, going back to the OP, he does make a good point. The S&W 10, and other 38 service revolvers such as the Colt Official Police are very accurate, with close tolerances and excellent build quality. They're a pleasure to own and enjoyable to shoot.

The simplest way to look at this is that “target” guns fit a loose description. 6” barrel, adjustable sights etc……. No different than the loose definition of what qualifies as an “Assault Rifle” or a Race Car.
Although the term assault rifles bothers me. By their intended purpose all rifles (guns ) are assault weapons.

This is a very uninformed statement. Have you shot any of these matches?
Look up the rules for any of the aforementioned matches. They're all available online.
There is nothing "loose" about the criteria for allowable guns under specific match rules. It is all very specific to a very fine level of detail.

And, the notion that all guns are "assault" weapons is ludicrous.
Ask anyone who lives in a country where firearm ownership is strictly regulated.

Excuse me MR six string. I wasn’t referring to match guns. I was referring to guns designed towards target shooting and greater accuracy with ability to adjust point of impact. As opposed to guns designed for self defense. Example mod 14 vs mod 10 etc……. That seemed to be the question many posed.

Also the firearm in and of itself is made to kill. If that’s not an assault weapon I don’t know what is. My point was the hypocrisy of defining one gun as an assault weapon because of certain features. I’m sorry 6string if these concepts are to deep for u to understand

If you're the shooter? Nice job!!

Where the myth came from that fixed sight guns are any less accurate than adjustable sight guns is beyond me! Think about it - fixed sight guns are not movable at all - adjustable sights can get banged around, moved by accident, break etc. The ONLY thing adjustable sight guns are better at is adjusting for the individual shooter's eyes and for ammunition type and lot differences.

I have my standard pet loads for target shooting and when I dial in the sights on an adj. sight gun, they really never get moved unless I change bullet types, load, powder, or bang them. That is a rare occurrence but does on occasion.

This is so sad!
Better to not know something and keep quiet than open your mouth and prove it.

By the way, the model 14 was explicitly designed as a "match" gun, in this case the CF stage of the 2700 Bullseye match.

20180718_111707 Pair PPC Revolvers.jpg

A picture is worth a few words!

I had a beat up old police trade 4” 10-5 that was a true ugly duckling. About 60% finish is being generous.
I could hold 5” groups at 50 yards with it. Another gun foolishly sold

Well it’s clear u know everything. The problem is we’re not talking about the same thing. But in your haste to prove your incredible wisdom u don’t seem to realize this. ……. So I’ll just leave it there and not respond further.

The Model 10's got it where it counts. Mechanical accuracy is good as any other Smith & Wesson .38 Special revolver.

Here's my old favorite Model 10 a few years back when I was testing handloads, the 148 grain hollow base wadcutter loaded with 2.7 grains of Green Dot against the old standby 2.8 grains of Bulls Eye with the same bullet.

Exercising shooter/photographer privilege here sees the best of each of two targets were photographed out of 10 five-shot groups fired for each of the two handloads. It's only two handed five shot groups and the range is only 10 yards and I was in a "shooting humor" that day. I'm not always in a shooting humor and shooting humors have been hard to come be more recently for me since shoulder surgery a year and a half ago, a move last fall, the delayed acquisition of membership in a private gun club in our new locale, and the inevitable advancement of age has conspired to make shooting humors harder to come by these days. Got the gun club membership nailed down so am back in the saddle again.

The best that the Model 14 K-38 could muster with the same two loads during the testing series.


On a different occasion the Model 10 was run through the wringer testing the left over dregs from a testing series of various "performance" handloads, in this instance the infamous SR 4756 load with 158 grain cast lead semi-wadcutter bullet straight out of the equally infamous Speer No. 8 manual. A group shot single action and a larger group shot double action.


Basic attention to shooting skills and regular attention to handgun shooting practice in combination with a shooting humor is important in shooting any handgun. Many handguns have the mechanical capability to provide outstanding accuracy. The Model 10 does it in spades.

Look at some of the guns used to shoot winning scores @ Camp Perry in the 1920's & 30's especially in the CF portion . You'll see more than 1 Colt Army Special not the Officers Model . Hard holding & young eyes is all I can say .

It is easier to shoot a 6" M14 well than it is to get the same performance with a 3-4" fixed sight M10/13/64/65. The is a function of the ergonomics, more visible sights, etc. Day in, day out, any of the above revolvers (or their L/N frame colleagues) will perform better and more consistently than all but the very best of us can shoot. Technically, a J frame is generally as accurate as an M14, but few of us can prove that.

I like to cheat. I want the sights and other ergonomic factors in my favor, especially as my old eyes get less tolerant. That said, most of the time I will not shoot up to the mechanical possibility of most firearms.

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NHI, 10-8.

I own a Model 10-9 4" "pencil barrel" its plenty accurate up to 50yds if you do your part, also in double acion at 15 yds I can hold 2 inches 3 shot groups as fast as I can aqueeze the trigger, enough for me for a home defence gun!!!
Best Wishes
RR

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"Off we go..."

I own a Model 10-9 4" "pencil barrel" its plenty accurate up to 50yds if you do your part, also in double acion at 15 yds I can hold 2 inches 3 shot groups as fast as I can aqueeze the trigger, enough for me for a home defence gun, and also varmints hunting and plincking!!!(with the proper load)
Best Wishes
RR

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"Off we go..."

Yes , absolutely each venue of organized competition has their exact rules . Relevant to this discussion , PPC had classes for stock guns of various bbl lengths .

Once upon a time , I had opportunity to test a whole bunch of mostly ugly , mostly high mileage duty revolvers .

Average accuracy was about 1.5 inch @ 25yds . Plenty were 1.25 & less , a few sub 1.0 Anything getting close to 2.0 had obvious damage to the crown .

A 4 inch service revolver gives up very little in achieving very good accuracy . Even with fixed sights ( so long as POI of load relates to the fixed sights ) .

OTOH , a J Frame is challenging to achieve a semblance of its mechanical accuracy .

Yes , absolutely each venue of organized competition has their exact rules . Relevant to this discussion , PPC had classes for stock guns of various bbl lengths .

Once upon a time , I had opportunity to test a whole bunch of mostly ugly , mostly high mileage duty revolvers .

Average accuracy was about 1.5 inch @ 25yds . Plenty were 1.25 & less , a few sub 1.0 Anything getting close to 2.0 had obvious damage to the crown .

A 4 inch service revolver gives up very little in achieving very good accuracy . Even with fixed sights ( so long as POI of load relates to the fixed sights ) .

OTOH , a J Frame is challenging to achieve a semblance of its mechanical accuracy .