I have a K22 17-3 in nickel with a 8 3/8" barrel. I have never seen one before. I'm am trying to come up with a value on it but can't find it listed. I had read that there were some salesmen's samples of some S&W nickel pistols that were never cataloged. I do not know if that's true or not. All input and help appreciated.

Welcome to the forum.

If it were mine, I’d get a letter before I did anything else. Some photos would be nice!

http://smith-wessonforum.com/e...0103904/m/3011047303

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"I also cook."

Still trying to figure the picture thing out

I would think if it's a factory nickel it should have a N on the back of the cylinder and on the frame under the grips during that era being made between 1967 and 1977. My 27-2's from the early 70's have the N in those places on my nickel guns.

I'm sure someone else can confirm or deny this.

Very very few in factory nickel. I have never seen one. Special order only. My first guess is always that such guns are refinished and so far I have not been wrong.

Are the hammer and trigger nickel plated? If so this is almost a sure sign of refinishing.

If original nickel then very valuable to a collector. If refinished then maybe $300-$350 as a shooter.

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No life story has happy end.

The hammer and trigger are not plated. The rear of the ejector is not plated but the push rod where it actually shows is. There is the serial number and MCD 17-3 when you open the cylinder. There is no N on the back of the cylinder. The rear sight is also not plated and is a removeable and adjustable sight. Once I learn how to post pics... Can I use Photo Bucket links?

Photo Bucket works just fine.

Pics just added. Not the best but pics.

Did you take the grips off and look on the grip frame for a "N"?

With nickel K22s, the only real way to tell is with a letter. If the gun is obviously refinished, as in polish marks, pins flattened, etc, then you can assume its been refinished. But if it was done by a good gunsmith, you'd need the letter.

Since they didn't have a production line or run of nickel guns, they just pulled one that had been destined to be blue and turned it into a nickel gun. If it shipped from the factory as a nickel gun originally, its a nickel gun. Only Roy can find/view the original invoice and prove it.

I'm still looking for the prewar nickel version.

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Dick Burg

Hard to see much in the photos but if refinished it was done properly. I would show it to a local smith for his opinion on refinished or not. If it appears original then it's worth the $50 to document it.

Pretty gun. I always wondered why nickel wasn't routinely offered on these as they look so good plated.

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No life story has happy end.

There is no evidence whatsoever that the gun has ever been apart for refinishing. I wish you guys could hold this thing and look at it. I'm going to send for a letter from S&W. It just makes sense to confirm what I already believe. If it was refinished in the after-market, whoever done it was beyond a Professional, they were at the very least a Master.

Do you have the N on back of your cylinder? That looks just like mine when open! Does yours say MCD 17-3 on the frame below the barrel when you open the cylinder? I wish I knew when mine was made. Serial number is 8K289**. I'm not trying to be silly but that made my heart skip a beat and I got goose bumps when I seen yours. Just like mine except grips and barrel length.

My Model 17-3 has the large 'N' under the barrel flat, behind the extractor on the cylinder and on the grip frame on the left side underneath the left panel.
My serial number puts my gun in the range of those with the six inch barrels that were shipped in 1975.

"Rare configuration: In 1975, 15 revolvers were made in 6" nickel, square butt, with target hammer and target trigger, in serial number range 1K3034 to 1K3655", per the 2nd edition of the Standard Catalog of Smith and Wesson.

My serial number is 1K32XX.

And, yours doesn't say 'MCD 17-3'. It says 'MOD 17-3' for model number.

My heart skipped a beat when I found out about this gun. It skipped two beats when I paid for it.
bdGreen

GNT- Don't be offended. It's just that original nickel M17s are so rare that the first inclination is to assume it's refinished. Also be aware that S&W historian Roy Jinks assures us that S&W could refinish a gun so that nobody could tell it wasn't original. I have seen a K22 plated by Ford's (a refinishing shop) that was so beautiful you would never guess it wasn't factory original. Common refinish stamps on the grip frame are a star or a diamond. Sometimes the date of the work is stamped there, too, like 976 meaning September of 1976.

I believe that if original there will be a capital N stamped on the grip frame, like seen below.



If you truly believe it is original then it would be worth the $50 to confirm its finish when shipped as a real nickel 17 would be worth a couple thousand bucks, I think.

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No life story has happy end.

There's really only one way to tell. Write S&W. That's the bottom line as far as I can tell. I'll just cough up the $50 and roll the dice. Mine has what looks almost like a deep check mark shaped kind of like a V a G5 then 16383 a G3 & G6 on the left and on the right side is a P inside a square and either an I or L inside a square.Can someone post the link to S&W where I would request the info. I'm a full blown rookie when it comes to S&Ws period. The first one I ever had was a Model 39 alloy framed 9mm and this is #2.

Your $50 may end up making you a whole lot more than that though.

Nevermind. I found the sight and the form. Thanks for all of your help. I will post an update when I find out what I have.

It can happen. In the 70s or early 80s I spotted a brand new NICKLE model 14 in my gunshop and bought it. I knew they werent cataloged. In the crane you could see where "14" was overstamped a "15". Shoulda kept that one! It was 6".

I may have skipped over it accidentally, but did you say if the ejector was blue or not? That can be an indication of factory nickel too. Also the N on the cylinder could be Under the ejector.

The ejector itself is blue but, of course, the push rod for the ejector is nickel. Just like the other member's nickel one. No "N" under the ejector though. Trigger spring is blue along with the trigger itself, etc. just like his.

Remove the grips. There should be an N on the grip frame under the grips. If there isn't, then it's a refinish.

I'm going to flip a $50 coin and let S&W tell me for sure. That removes all doubt. All of the screws and pins are flawless without any marks. I need something other than an "N" to convince me. I want to know for sure beyond any doubt.

I bought a K-22 masterpiece for $98.00 when I was 12 years old, 50 years later I still have the pistol. I is a nickel K-22 and It came in a silver box which I no longer have. I went to Jinks a few years ago and discovered
.
gun shipped from factory on 16 july 1952
serial # K150xxx, shipped to J.L. Galif & Son NYC NY a firearms dealer
1 of 25 K-22s blue, 6"BARREL AND walnut magna grips
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nickel was not original and was completed after it left the factory
Galif must have had it plated and had silver boxes made
gnpittsburgh

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gn

Say a salesman asked for one made in nickel. If it was "destined to be blue and turned into a nickel gun" as you said, wouldn't it be possible it got stamped as a refinished gun? How would a salesman's gun show on an invoice? If he were to pick out a gun at the factory already blued and ask for modifications, would the shipping date and other information show it as such? Have there been those in the past shown as such?

They would not refinish a complete gun. They would make one in nickel on special order.

I note the OP didn't come back. I wonder if he lettered that 17?

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No life story has happy end.

I would still be interested if invoices in the past from Roy state "salesman sample"?

I just sent him an email to inquire as I found one a few hours ago.....no box....yet.

If I'm reading the book right, it should be made in about 1975.

Interesting I bought a 17-3 8K Serial Number Range Today, It also is Stamped MCD 17-3 like this 8 3/8th gun was, is it possible it was a special order? It is Not Stamped MOD, Clearly MCD & All Lettering is Perfectly Crisp , Pins Are Not Knocked Down Or Buffed. The 17 I picked up today is nickel , 6" barrel, pinned , recessed cylinder, Case hardened hammer & trigger, Black Adjustable Rear Site, Ejector Star Is Blue, The Serial Number Is On Cylinder, There Is No "n" on cylinder. I have not removed grips yet, i own over 150 smith and wessons and this guns finish is identical to many of my other nickel smiths. Is it possible it was special ordered in nickel, or sent back to the factory for nickel finish. I Paid Good Money Because The Gun Is Beautiful So Either Way Im Happy.

Sorry to say, your mistaken. I have and sold a number of Smiths that started out blue. Employees wanted nickel and a blued gun would be pulled and nickel finished. I have a Md 53-2 in nickel, letters as blue with RN on frame. I had two Md 27's with 8 3/8" barrels, both were blue and are now nickel. Both pulled from stock and replated. I live near the plant and have know a large number of employees. The stories they have, or had, could fill a book.

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Don Mundell

Pictures or it never happened.

Unfortately, the pistol was stolen before I could apply for the letter. It's taken me a long time to even talk about guns since the theft of several so I don't want to get into the story but now you know why I never updated this thread with the results.





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Club Gun Fan- Well, that strikes me a stupid way of doing it. Much cheaper and easier to build a new one. But if they want to do it the stupid way, that's up to them. Like I keep saying, I am no expert. I just apply common sense and sometimes that doesn't work when they prefer doing it a stupid way.

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No life story has happy end.

Yes, they would refinish a complete gun. My BIL has a nickel 17 with RR front sight. It was blue with patridge front sight. He sent back to Smith in the early 80's and they changed it for him.
I have a nickel mdl. 18 that was given the same treatment by Smith abouth the same time..........So.......It did happen. At least back then.

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S&W Accumulator

Many blued guns were refinished in nickel. I have a friend who used to have it done regularly back in the late sixties and early seventies. He was particularly fond of nickel guns and if he could not find a nickel gun in the model he wanted, he bought a blued one and sent it back for refinish ("change of finish" was S&W's term) in nickel, along with his "trademark" preferred yellow-ramp front sight. There were a few models that S&W would not offer a change of finish on. The Model 28 comes to mind, but I can't recall the others. May have been the various aluminum-framed models.

I'd think it hard to classify S&W's methods of producing special items as "stupid." Without knowing all of the intricacies of their process, how would anyone know? I would bet that however they did it, they had good reasons for doing it that way, and it was the least costly way for them. When one alters an established manufacturing process it is not unusual to find that what might seem obvious frequently works out to be a great deal less than as simple as one thinks. I'm sure they did it often enough to know what they were doing.

In 1974 while stationed at Ft Polk, LA I sent a 6" blue 17-3 to Tampa, Fl to the S&W regional repair facility. I got back an 8 3/8 nickel 17-3. The gun is long gone so maybe it's the one you have. A letter will tell for sure. By the way if your's is a re-finish by S&W it will have this stamp on the grip frame along with the date of re-work the R-N indicates a refinish in Nickel
Chuck

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SWCA1517 SWHF256
Rangers LTW!

I'm not talking about having a gun refinished in nickel. Of course that happens all the time. I am talking about S&W shipping a new gun in nickel by taking a blued gun and stripping it of blue and then plating it. I'm told they do that. Sounds like the stupid way of doing things to me. Wouldn't it be much faster/easier/cheaper to simply plate a new gun?

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No life story has happy end.

That is a major bummer...sorry to hear about it.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

[QUOTE=SaxonPig;137839319]I'm not talking about having a gun refinished in nickel. Of course that happens all the time. I am talking about S&W shipping a new gun in nickel by taking a blued gun and stripping it of blue and then plating it. I'm told they do that. Sounds like the stupid way of doing things to me. Wouldn't it be much faster/easier/cheaper to simply plate a new gun?[/QUO


It's always been my understanding that the factory only made nickel guns in limited runs and it was more cost effective to pull a gun in the blue and refinish it in nickel on special order when timing was a factor. In the case of HH Harris for example, nickel guns were ordered along with blue guns therefore in order to ship a complete order to their largest suppliers, for S&W it wasn't a "stupid" practice, but one of best commerce practice. I don't believe S&W was the company then and is now by using "stupid" manufacturing and business practices.

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SWCA1517 SWHF256
Rangers LTW!

Saxon Pig
What makes you think it's "stupid". Have you ever worked in a factory, or a firearms factory? From you "stupid" comments, I think not. When Smith & Wesson tools up, a factory term, to run J frames, they run J frames until the order is complete. That may take a week or more.
The next frame to be run maybe N frames. If someone wants a KT 38 in nickel and there are only blue in the vault, guess what, one is removed from inventory. It goes to OSR, another factory term, and completely disassembled. It is then taken to the plating room where it is stripped and waits for a batch of J frames to be plated. Once it is plated, it goes back to OSR where it is reassembled and sold. This whole process in man-hours may take 3 hours. So instead or breaking down and retooling to run one revolver, it's done by hand and doesn't interfere with production, another factory term. Sorry for my "stupid answer. If you have a better way, let me know. I will put you in touch with Production at Smith & Wesson, they'd love to hear from an "expert planner".
You might want to work thru a real machine shop first

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Don Mundell

I am curious if they took a completed blued gun apart if they still would stamp a N in the frame?


Also i bought a five screw k22 that the original owner sent back to smith in the seventies to be nickled. He said he sent a few back in the seventies to have it done. There are no rework stampings or rework dates on the frame at all. It was done near perfect. The only give away to the work is that the Smith logo is cut a bit to deep.

Nope. Not a whit of machine shop experience. I do have a degree in Industrial Arts. Worked for a bit as a hydraulic mechanic. Not the same as gun manufacturing.

I would not be pleased to know S&W sold me a refinished gun as new. Don't collectors freak out if a gun is refinished? Wouldn't this count as being refinished?

And if they really do it the way you say, how much is it costing them in labor? Take a finished gun, disassemble it, strip it, then refinish it and reassemble it? Do they charge enough to cover this much shop time?

You can explain the process every way from Sunday. It still strikes me as incredibly inefficient to produce a single unit.

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No life story has happy end.

You can explain the process every way from Sunday. It still strikes me as incredibly inefficient to produce a single unit.

What's that old saying, You can lead a pig to water but you can't make him drink.
It appears they have been incredibly inefficient for over 150 years.

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Don Mundell

[QUOTE=BigG-n-Tn;137838552]Unfortately, the pistol was stolen before I could apply for the letter. It's taken me a long time to even talk about guns since the theft of several so I don't want to get into the story but now you know why I never updated this thread with the results.


Stolen. The single word most dreaded by a collector.


HERE is the information on the ORIGINAL Nickel model 17-3s' .
There were 18 total made . All 6 inch. Shipped 1974 and 1975.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-rev...formation.html


Regards,

Allen F

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NRA cert.instructor&R.S.O.

when I was 12, in 1962 I bought a Nickel K-22 (for $98.00) from a local dealer. It came in a silver box with blue printing and the dealer said that it was a special run of guns from smith. Being 12 I promptly lost the box and it's contents but still have the pistol. In 1999 I sent my money into Jinks for my weapon's' history.
.
He replied that my "Smith and Wesson K-22 Masterpiece, Pre-Model 17, caliber .22 long rifle rim fire revolver in company records which indicate that your handgun, with serial number K150XXX, was shipped from our factory on July 16, 1952 and delivered to J.L. Galef & Sons, New York City. The records indicate that this shipment was for 25 K-22 Masterpieces. All the revolvers were 6 inch barrels, blue finish with walnut magna stocks. The nickle plating is not original and was completed after the revolver left the factory"
.
I found a 1`1964 Galef catalog which is a dealer in Sporting Arms, Ammunition, Money Changers and Accessories.
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One gun-smith looked at my pistol and complemented the quality of the plating and I have been shooting same since 1962.

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gn

There's one huge hole in the theory that all K22s in nickel were refinished. Those in that hole are the 12 revolvers series. I've seen a few other guns that claim to be factory nickel. Yes, look for the N in the usual places. There even is reported to be a prewar nickel one. Send one to the premium restorers. They can make it so good most of us can't tell. If you ever get one that won't letter as blue,it might be a good candidate for shiney. If it won't letter as blue, it can't be proven to be anything.

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Dick Burg

A couple years ago, I bought an 8 3/8" M48-10 from a member of this Forum. Nickel, and 3 T's. The stocks appear to be Rosewood and are the smooth presentation type. It is stamped 10-82, and has a Star on the bbl. and cylinder, both of which are serial numbered to the gun. It also has the RR and WO rear sight. Someone put a few bucks into this revolver. No doubt refinished in nickel, but a factory letter would only confirm how it was shipped originally, so I didn't letter it. This revolver came back as a new piece. Box it was shipped in is serialized to the revolver too. Doubt it has ever been fired since the factory work. Nickel 48's are scarce as are the nicked M53's. Here's a pic of it. It is very pretty. Big Larry

We had a number of guns refinished at the factory that were no charged for the "change of finish .
Discovered later that the customer had marked the guns (blue) with an "N" in the appropriate places and the factory service department just did what was expected.
They came back in 'new' boxes as if the revolvers were new and original.
Wish we had the NYC PD record books from those days we still had the
information listed. BUT, when we retired and gave them the books as required, it seemed that all records were promptly :Lost".