What's wrong with a Highway Patrolman? Cheaper than buying an L frame and modifying it...


mark

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I don't get why there is such animosity toward the idea of customizing a "run-of-the-mill" 686, but this same forum "ooh's and ahh's: over Mr Boman's (beautiful) reworking of a much more scarce 38/44.

I'm not Bruce (bdGreen) and don't have his depth of knowledge by a long shot but I do have 2 of the 116 Ashland Shooter Supply 6 inch 617's.



I even put a set of diamond grips on one for a shot ...



I wish they'd do another run of these in 4 & 6 inch.

GF

OK, Frakes, you're holding out on us again!

I think a poster above hit on the answer. The vast majority of buyers don't know or care. Many folks prefer the cleaner lines and lighter weight. Once a gun has been fired a few thousand times, a long since modification has no bearing on resale value. Its just as likely the modification will cause an increase in value as a decrease.

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Dick Burg

I've read a little about the small run of half-lug 617's from the early 90's and have enviously seen the photos. From what I can tell, they are pretty hard to find for sale and command some pretty healthy premiums...if you'd even be able to find one. With that in mind, it seems like it wouldn't be too crazy of an idea to buy a 4" 617 and send it off to get the lug removed. Your idea about hard-chroming a Model 18 sounds like a viable option too. I know I want a half-lug 4" K-frame .22, but am looking for the ease of maintenance associated with SS. It may "ruin" the resale value of a M617 or a M18, but .22's are usually something you're more prone to hold on to...so the resale value wouldn't be an issue to me.

Decisions, decisions

This is still a reason I am passively looking for a 686 MG if I ever buy a 686. I would even buy a 620 before a 686. Now if I ever did find a half lug 686 then it would be credit card devil time.

You guys are a BAD BAD influence. Every time I look at my 6 1/2 inch 610-3 all I think about is how much better it would look, and how much better it would balance, with a semi lugged barrel. Now I can see that at some point I'll be having a carbide half rounding bit ground to the proper radius and spending a weekend or two on one of the Bridgeports at work.

As for the effect on it's value, I don't care one little bit about that, I don't ever plan on selling my 610. Heck, if I could find 4 inch 610 I've been considering building a 3 1/2 610 with all of the window dressing of a Registered Magnum. We have 2 CnC mills at work and with a bit of programming it'd only take a weekend to reprofile the barrel to a tapered barrel that matched that on the RM. Then another bit of programing and another weekend to cross hatch the top strap and barrel rib. Finish it up by progamming the CnC to engrave the logo and caliber on the barrel and after a full polish the end result would look like a factory prototype.

I assume by the time this is read to the finish, half the readers will be PO'd.
When I read comments from members who downgrade anybody who modifies "THEIR" gun or guns, I want to puke. I sure don't believe I have the right to criticize anyone for taking their property and doing with it, what they decide.
I might not do the same modification or think it is either pleasing to eye or necessarily functional, but again, I'm sure that some of what I've had done would be looked at the same way by others.
Around 1995, I purchased two Model 610 no dash 10mm revolvers with 5" barrels and additional two model 686-3's.
I then proceeded to have modifications done to both of the model 610's and also had the 686's modified by having 5" 10mm barrels installed, cylinder rechambered for 40S&W and had the chambers recessed, Checkered top straps and barrels on all four guns, trigger work on all four guns, ball detents installed on all four and some other minor work. You might ask why. BECAUSE I wanted it done.

For those commenters that talk about re-sale value, I don't know anyone who when buying a current factory produce is also thinking about re-sale value at that time.

As for the collectors, I can understand them wanting what they collect being what they want to collect and in and of the conditions they want. What/how would they like for commenters to talk down either what they collect or the conditions the collector decided on.

Just my 2 cents worth, by the way, with Obama and the Feds. that 2 cents will shortly be worth 1 cent.

Semper Fi
baldeagle8888

P.S.
ALL four revolvers had the full lug barrels reduced to half lugs.

I (and I bet a lot of others) would love to see some pictures!

I am in the process of taking pictures and will post later today.

Thanks for asking for pictures.

baldeagle8888

I have 6 inch M586's and they are a tad barrel heavy.

The photo of the M686-6 that Bullseye Smith has produced appears to be the special run made by S&W?? or someone else. I handled one in a gunshop and really liked the balance.

I think the barrel length was 5 inches.

If someone couldn't find one I think cutting down a 6 incher woul dbe a viable alternative if it was not too expensive.

I am considering buying a 4 inch M686 (no lock) and having it cut to 3 inches and roundbutted.

There was a special run of M586's and M686's that were made so but are quite rare.

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Have guns...will shoot'em.

Interesting thread. Modifying guns may be more of a reflection of the owners attitude about life. I have reached the age where I have decided to quit reading about custom guns and have some made. My current project is converting a mint Old Model Single-Six into a 41 Special. I am not getting any younger and there are better investments for the future if that is really your.goal. I see nothing wrong with putting a gun away as safe queen but it is important not to lose sight of the purpose of the gun and its role in the 2nd Amendment.

Here are the pictures of my model 610 & 686 as modified.
Hope these photo's come through.

Pictures by baldeagle8888 - Photobucket

Thanks for the photos Baldeagle. I'll have something to show the local smith to have my 6 inch 617 "cleanedup". Thanks again Frank Jr.

To NAVY FRANK:

Just be careful and try not to screw up the LOCKING BOLT SETUP by removing to much of the underlug which you should remove and determine what is required to maintain.

baldeagle8888

baldeagle,

Very, very cool. I really like this idea on a 686.

All your pictures seem to be from the top and back. Is there any chance of you taking some pictures from the front and bottom to show the work better?

In the 6 inch version of the SD&W686 with full underlug the forward weight is too much for my taste. I have seen some 6 inch 686 which have had this issue remedied by tastefully grinding off ma portion of the underlug to create a profie similar to some of the N-framed and L-framed PC guns. Unfortunately I did not take note of who performed the conversion.I shoot L-framed 4 inchers with full underlugs but prefer the 6 inchers without the full underlug.

Thanks for the heads up. My plan is to have the smith profile the barrel to the N frame barrel profile and not remove the metal to profile it like a 17. Thanks again. Frank Jr.

Here are some additional photo's that I promised.

If you look carefully, there are also a few pictures of my Model 646 in 40S&W. As can be seen, S&W moved the cylinder forward (toward barrel) by around .05"/.06" versus the standard 686 and the cylinder material was changed to Titanium versus Stainless Steel. I believe these two changes permitted the required strength for the 40S&W conversion since there is "ONLY" a very thin chamber wall thickness, less then .02" at the cylinder lock recess location. I also believe the reason for the cylinder being moved forward was to place the thicker cartridge web area behind the lock recess.

Also note on the model 686, my conversion to 40S&W and the "N" frame 10mm barrel, the misalignment of the ejector rod and the locking bolt hole which is due to the difference between the "L" and "N" frame chamber rotating dimension as I noted on a earlier post.

Pictures by baldeagle8888 - Photobucket

baldagle8888

Just a single example of "forum hypocracy" which runs rampant through most all firearms forums.

I've never owed an L-Frame simply because of the wretched full lug. Don't like its looks or its balance. I'd consider purchase of a well done conversion to a factory-appearing ejector rod shroud.

I like the idea that a gun modified like that will turn up on a table at a gun show in 2026 with the seller breathlessly relating how it's a rare variation from the factory and only 25 of them were made for an elite black ops team of boy scouts who used them to assassinate insurgents in the Malaysian jungle. And he'll sell this jewel for only 20,000 Ameros . . . .

Heh...heh! Ameros!

That sounds like some valuable wampum.

bald eagle,

My only concern about the .40 S&W conversion would be the strength of a steel L-frame cylinder in that caliber. When S&W built the 646, they went to a titanium cylinder because they felt a steel one would be insufficient for the .40's chamber pressure, considering cylinder wall thickness.

Other than that, they sound like great looking guns.

Buck

Buck,

I posted yesterday about that very issue.
I have not fired either o the 686's that I had modified to 40S&W. That is the problem that a Stainless Steel cylinder has.

Buck, send me an email to [email protected] and I'll send you something that might wet your appetite.

Paul

I'm rather turned off by the lugs myself. I've considered grinding the lug off my 586, but it still isnt quite the same as the contour on a 19 or N frame. To me, the lugged guns are about the most unattractive ones Smith ever made. Guess it's just personal preference.

Couple people mentioned 586 mountain guns, I didnt know there was such a version, or did I just get crossed up with the 686's? Anyone have a picture of a blued L frame mountain? I'd swap barrels before I'd grind one down. Think I'd prefer a 27 or 28 to the L tho.

I'm also on the side of, do whatever you want to your own gun. My old 29 had a few things done to it, but nobody complains when I've posted pics. I beveled the front edge of the cylinder, ground the target hammer to a service size spur, and reshaped the grips. I vastly prefer it in that form than how it came from the factory. Any view of its value will be after I'm gone.

+1

Chortle! Good one.

This is all a very interesting thread, as I have several 686's and have been thinking for quite awhile to do this very modification to one of them. While I love the 686s and find them to be the most accurate handguns of any type that I have ever owned, the full lug makes it a bit tiresome to carry all day long. These days I spend a lot more time hiking in the wilds than I do at the range, so carry weight is very important. The 6" barrel is perfect for sight radius and max velocity, but the lug is unnecessary for my purposes.

The question is, whom do I send my pistol to to get this done? I saw Cylinder & Slide mentioned earlier. Anybody else that I can entrust my 686 to that comes recommended? One reason I want to chose a gunsmith very carefully is that a few years back I was talking to a master gunsmith about this mod and he said it needs to be done VERY carefully because if it's rushed, it can overheat the barrel and ruin the accuracy. A little metal needs to be milled off then wait for it to cool, then a little more, etc.. This is very laborious so a not-so-good gunsmith may be tempted to do a hack job.

By the way, I carry my 6" 686 for protection against bears, mountain lions, and 2-legged meth monsters up here in Idaho, and feel is it about perfect. Sure a .44 mag would be good too, but I just don't want to carry all that weight. I want max velocity out of my 686 so I won't go shorter than 6".

Any recommendations for a good gunsmith would be much appreciated.

SB's rework of that 6" barreled 617 is perhaps the best example of doing this mod. Plenty of 6" 617's made, and most anyone that has handled that barrel length would agree that it is barrel heavy. I'm sure plenty of 686 owners with a muzzle heavy 6" barrel would like a better balancing option. You have a few more choices, as Smith made a few runs of 5" barrelled guns in both half-lug and full-lug versions of the 686. These balance perfectly for me. Then you always can look for a 686-MG......aesthetically one of the nicest looking revolvers that Smith has produced. From an economic point of view, you are probably better off selling a gun you don't like and put the proceeds toward one than is more to your liking. If you modify a gun and don't like it, you will probably not be happy with the price when you sell it.

This is the best thread I've read so far! I hate full lug revolvers, hate them! Either do a barrel like the Model 19 or the 10 and be done with it.

I talked with Cylinder & Slide and they are going to do the work for me for $250. They say they know how to do it one little bit at a time in order to preserve the accuracy. They will copy the Model 66 6" barrel lug style. When I get it back (4 month wait time), I'll post pictures.

Does it enhance the collector value of the revolver and will I ever see this money out of this revolver? No. Do I care? No. Does this make it more practical for my own personal use? Hell yes.

I have been away from this forum for a while since summer has made other demads of my time. This is the most heated thread I have seen on this forum.

locogringo, I definaltely want to see the work when done. I too dislike the full lug barrel and see no sense in it at all. I have several stainless full lug models and do not care for the full lug on them. I carry my 629 in 5" for woods protection and wish it was a half lug gun and it does make more sense and it less weight. My Ruger Redhawk is a half lug gun but weighs A LOT more than the 629.

Keep us posted and by the way where is Cylinder & Slide located?

John

There are good reasons for having a heavier barrel/full lug, in fast D/A shooting helps hold the muzzle down,and in fine target work it holds the barrel steadier even if you slap the trigger,like bull barrel PPC revolvers.I know that the 90s 14-5/14-6's are shooting machines.
Almost all calibers/ frame sizes come with or without a barrel lug ,except L frames( excluding the few newer models they have had out in the last few years) .
So if you hate em,why buy one,or buy one and modify it or buy another barrel and modify that one and your good to go, if you want to return it to original later.
Ive seen some modified 686's and they looked good. Pay for what you want then be proud of being different.

Cylinder and Slide is located in Fremont, Nebraska.

Cylinder & Slide Inc

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My 617 4" had a full lug, which I ground down to a taper, and finished it up to match the rest of the gun.
With a belt sander, and a lot of care, and then hand sanded with progressively finer grit.

I like it!

John

ALX, that came out looking good, did you get a before and after weight? I (gasp) am thinking of doing this with my 16-4 that I am converting to .327 federal.

I've been wanting a model 610 but hate the lug too. What I really want is the Mountain Revolver profile. Think I might start looking for one again and have Cylinder and Slide work their magic on it. I'll bet Mag-Na-Port would do it too.

I would not do it on a 357 Magnum revolver. The purpose of the full underlug is to reduce the shock of recoil, which is considerable with 357 Magnum loads. The underlug is actually a blessing, assuming that you are more of a shooter than a looker. For a carry gun it would be OK, so long as you don't plan to shoot it much with full power loads.
Models 19, 66, 27, and 28 are (or were) available without the full underlug.
I had a Model 620 for awhile, but sold it because with full power loads it beat the hell out of my hand.
I replaced it with a 4" 686 no-dash.

Here is the original thread where I previously posted this lug reduction.

Partial lug on 617

I'll do it for you for $50 plus shipping. I am a custom knifemaker but do lots of pistol and revolver work too. I have some pics of my work if you want to see it.
Matt

www.cucchiaraknives.com

In 2003/2004 a forum member did this and posted photos.
The finished product looked good.

Cookie-cutter guns are fine and I like to look at Doc44's beautiful guns as much as anyone, but as the poster said, the current crop hardly qualifies as some sort of religious artifact. I think there is also a lot of interest in an S&W (to me, at least) that has been carefully modified to suit a purpose and received corresponding use by its owner. I'll be pleased to see your revolver when it is done and hear your shooting results. So don't forget to post the pics and info.

The barrel is probably not going to look like a 66 barrel because the 686 barrel does not have a lot of taper, so it will be somewhere between what it is now and a big 66-looking barrel - but it should be just fine.

As to cost, good work is never cheap. If you are going to do a project like this, it should be done carefully, by someone with an eye for such things. People spend $250 on worthless junk like cokes or french fries in a year. It's just money. At least your modified gun won't be clogging your arteries.

I'd like to find those posted photos mentioned, and any of the info.
But as of yet no success in searching.

This thread got me thinking about cutting lug my 6" 617-6 that I bought couple years ago. I don't have CNC at home, so I just did it with handsaw, file, sandpaper and dremel.
I kinda liked the result, so I decided also polish it, replace hummer and grips .

Here is how it looks now:
img1.jpg

ALX_3568_RQ.jpg

ALX_3569.JPG

ALX_3588.JPG

you are a brave man! i couldnt attack one of my pieces with a hacksaw..no way thats a $950 gun new!. my media is wood, but its tough to make a decent gun out of wood..

i would say you havent diminished the value of that 617 one cent . i would buy it

Sorry double post
Steve

I suspect you're right about that, Cajun.

I'd say its a 100% improvement, especially with a 6" barrel.
For one like that I could even overlook the IL (I think!)

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-jwk-
US Army '72-'95

Well, for everyone that posted the desire of S&W to make a less than full lug 617,,,,
S&W finally did it,,,

Well time has passed since I last saw this thread. I have taken a gunsmithing course and a Smith & Wesson armourer's class. I have made two half lug guns in the mean time and going to do a third.

I made my 686 no dash into a half lug 5" and it is by far my all time favorite handgun ever. And I have had a lot of handguns in my 40 plus years of buying and trading for guns.

I also put a 5" barrel on my 629-3 square butt and made it a half lug too. I love it. I am going to do the same to a second 629-3 square butt that I bought a 5" barrel for.

A hack saw to cut the lug off, a good file to profile it, a dremel tool to profile the full lug to half lug and a stone to smooth it up and emery cloth to finish the job. I must say I wore out one hack saw blade and used another to cut the lugs off with. That stainless steel is very hard!!

This second 629 is going to half to have the barrel set back as the gap is just a tad too big so that will take some lathe work. The 686 and first 629 barrel/cylinder gaps were very tight and I had to slightly remove some of the forcing cone to make the gap large enough so shooting lead bullets would cause problems.

Oh and I bought a 629 Mountain Gun!

John

Attached Images

	686.JPG (120.0 KB, 129 views)
	629-3.JPG (115.5 KB, 117 views)
	629.JPG (118.7 KB, 114 views)