|
|
12-18-2008, 06:50 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 456
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times in 7 Posts
|
|
Of the following, which would you choose as a platform to chop the barrel and make it into a .45 caliber personal defense weapon?
1. A Model 1917 with about 70 % bluing. The “US Army” had been buffed off the butt of the gun and the “United States Property” has been buffed off the underside of the barrel. Rifling is quite sharp and it is rather tight with no appreciable end shake.
2. A Brazilian with about 80 % with what looks somewhat like Parkerizing (grey color). It is all matching including the grips, which have the number stamped into them. This is the later style with the old WW I skinny sights like a Model 1917. It is not quite as tight and has a little bit of end shake but does not affect accuracy or reliability.
Normally I would leave the 1917 as is but with some important markings buffed off, I am not sure. The Brazilian is all-original but I am not up to speed on whether these are considered collectable. What do you all think?
Thanks for your help.
Bill
|
12-18-2008, 06:50 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 456
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times in 7 Posts
|
|
Of the following, which would you choose as a platform to chop the barrel and make it into a .45 caliber personal defense weapon?
1. A Model 1917 with about 70 % bluing. The “US Army” had been buffed off the butt of the gun and the “United States Property” has been buffed off the underside of the barrel. Rifling is quite sharp and it is rather tight with no appreciable end shake.
2. A Brazilian with about 80 % with what looks somewhat like Parkerizing (grey color). It is all matching including the grips, which have the number stamped into them. This is the later style with the old WW I skinny sights like a Model 1917. It is not quite as tight and has a little bit of end shake but does not affect accuracy or reliability.
Normally I would leave the 1917 as is but with some important markings buffed off, I am not sure. The Brazilian is all-original but I am not up to speed on whether these are considered collectable. What do you all think?
Thanks for your help.
Bill
|
12-18-2008, 07:03 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Winston-Salem NC
Posts: 1,447
Likes: 3
Liked 205 Times in 83 Posts
|
|
I say if the price is right buy both and shoot both. Put one in either night stand.
__________________
M.J.Hanna
|
12-18-2008, 07:26 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 456
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times in 7 Posts
|
|
There are two issues. One is esoteric. I have verbal provenance on the 1917 as being carried by a soldier in WW I and his son carried it in WW II. The grandson did not care anything about it and sold it to its present owner. I hate to alter a piece of history but with all of the markings gone, perhaps it no longer is. That is one concern. The other is more practical. While I do not intend to fire Plus P ammo, I have heard some alarming stories of these old cylinders not withstanding even standard loads. Normally, I would expect a Brazilian made in 1937 to be heat-treated a bit better than a 1917 but I understand the Brazilian I am looking at was built on a left over frame from WWI so there would be no advantage strength wise over a GI 1917. Do you have any thoughts on that?
Thanks,
Bill
|
12-18-2008, 08:01 PM
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: The Rust Belt Buckle/Mich
Posts: 2,382
Likes: 0
Liked 41 Times in 32 Posts
|
|
Yes I do. The Brazillian's frame may be from the WW I era, but if the cylinder is from the thirties I'm thinking you should be good to go. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. That gun is built on the N frame, and with modern steel can handle the .44 magnum which runs much higher pressure than the .45 ACP. I just don't see an older frame being weak enough, provided it's in decent shape, not to handle .45 ACP.
|
12-18-2008, 09:19 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 456
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times in 7 Posts
|
|
That is a good point, Flop-shank. The cylinder is the most relevant in discussing pressure. I assumed that since the frame was left over from 1917, the cylinder was as well. If not, that is very good news since I understand the batch sold to Brazil using the left over 1917 frames dates to around 1946 which would mean even better heat treatment of the cylinder. That goes a long way toward settling the matter as to which to use as a platform for a defense revolver.
Thanks,
Bill
|
12-18-2008, 11:26 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: TX
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
|
|
Just thought I'd share a pic of my similar project. The decision was made for me, since the bbl on this 1917 was chopped by the previous owner. My 'smith added the front sight, hogged out the rear, bobbed the hammer, put in new Wolff springs, installed a yoke lock and refinished with GunKote over Parkerizing. I left on the lanyard loop because I like the look and find it practical on an outdoor gun.
|
12-19-2008, 03:32 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Left Coast
Posts: 3,952
Likes: 0
Liked 30 Times in 24 Posts
|
|
Newsguy,
I LOVE IT!
A no BS, kill your *** dead wheelgun!
|
12-19-2008, 04:16 AM
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: The Rust Belt Buckle/Mich
Posts: 2,382
Likes: 0
Liked 41 Times in 32 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally posted by 10-12:
That is a good point, Flop-shank. The cylinder is the most relevant in discussing pressure. I assumed that since the frame was left over from 1917, the cylinder was as well. If not, that is very good news since I understand the batch sold to Brazil using the left over 1917 frames dates to around 1946 which would mean even better heat treatment of the cylinder. That goes a long way toward settling the matter as to which to use as a platform for a defense revolver.
Thanks,
Bill
|
I hope I've been helpful. Honestly, this isn't an area I know a lot about. I would seek more input from those in the 1857 through 1945 section. If they don't weigh in here soon I would repost in that section. I would hate for someone to get hurt or loose money because of my hunch. BTW, I don't have the foggiest idea when your cylinder would have been made.
|
12-19-2008, 09:27 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 127
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 4 Posts
|
|
I understand Charter Arms is coming out with a .45 revolver in the first quarter of 2009. While not a Smith it might be an alternative to cutting down an early classic. Just a thought!
|
12-19-2008, 11:40 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 456
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times in 7 Posts
|
|
Newguy, that’s it. That is very close to the way I would like mine to be configured right down to the Tyler grip adaptor. It looks to be .45 Colt or is it the lighting and it is actually .45 ACP? Either way, it is a winner.
Flop-shank, good idea. I should have posted in the 1857 through 1945 section in the first place or maybe I should try the S&W-Smithing section?
Starbuck, “Cutting down an early classic” is a concern we share. That and the strength issue are what prompted my initial inquiry. Thanks for the heads-up on the Charter Arms. Initially I scoffed to myself but after visiting Charter’s web site, I am not so sure. Except for being a five-shooter, it appears to have a lot of fine features. I wonder if it will be .45 Colt or .45 ACP? If ACP, Charter would no doubt offer “pentagon” clips.
Thanks,
Bill
|
12-19-2008, 12:06 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,814
Likes: 180
Liked 2,270 Times in 285 Posts
|
|
Hi 10-12,
Sorry, but I'd carry neither!
Why? Because neither of these otherwise fine vintage handguns DOES NOT HAVE the hammer (firing pin) block that the post WWII S&W .45ACP revolvers all have. To me this is HUGE!
Thus, if the revolver was accidentally dropped and the hammer thus struck, the firing pin on the hammer would strike the cartridge's primer and fire the weapon!
I know of a fellow in Tallahassee Florida who is a regular at the flea market each weekend there. He's carried a 1917 for years, and last year somehow his slipped out and fell. It fired a round of .45ACP right into his leg! Luckily, he survived!!!
Thus, treat either of these guns like you would an old fashioned Colt Single Action Army . . . and load ONLY five rounds . . . leaving the cylinder on top where the firing pin is empty . . . or find a used post WWII 25-2 or 625 in .45ACP to carry for self defense!
I got lucky about 15 years ago and found this chopped 25-2. Man, what a great revolver . . . and one you can load full moon clips into with HOT ammo and not worry about anything. It is, hands down, my favorite handgun of any type!
If you look around, I believe you can find a post WWII Smith .45ACP that will light your fire!
Sincerely,
Tom Turner
|
12-19-2008, 12:11 PM
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: The Rust Belt Buckle/Mich
Posts: 2,382
Likes: 0
Liked 41 Times in 32 Posts
|
|
Bill, I'd try the "old gun" guys first. They might have a way of telling if your cylinder is older or newer. Good luck with your project. the .45 ACP is more American than apple pie, and a great cartridge.
|
12-19-2008, 05:21 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Silver Hill, NC
Posts: 2,071
Likes: 4,551
Liked 4,329 Times in 825 Posts
|
|
__________________
C & L
|
12-19-2008, 05:26 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 341
Likes: 1
Liked 90 Times in 62 Posts
|
|
I would not touch a gun that was carried by father and son in two wars. I would write down that story and the names of the owners and save it for a future generation. Sometimes a sense of history skips a generation. Somewhere in Southwestern Ohio there is a pair of single action army revolvers in .44-40 that once belonged go my grandfather. They were used to pay off a debt by his widow. I would love to find them even though I could not possibly afford to buy them back without a bank loan.
I would cut the Brazilian gun if I wanted a modern Fitz.
|
02-01-2009, 09:05 PM
|
Banned
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Absurdistan
Posts: 1,229
Likes: 445
Liked 154 Times in 84 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Spotteddog:
Newsguy,
I LOVE IT!
A no BS, kill your *** dead wheelgun!
|
I love the gun AND your description of it!
|
02-01-2009, 10:17 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: GA
Posts: 5,699
Likes: 8,045
Liked 12,731 Times in 2,419 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally posted by 10-12:
The grandson did not care anything about it and sold it to its present owner.
|
Before you do anything else, you need to take the 1917 and whack the grandson soundly over the head three times.
Be sure not to damage the gun while doing said whacking.
__________________
Georgia On My Mind
|
02-01-2009, 10:46 PM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,353
Likes: 10,447
Liked 6,092 Times in 1,249 Posts
|
|
"I have heard some alarming stories of these old cylinders not withstanding even standard loads."
I've not heard this before. Any additional information out there about this?
|
02-01-2009, 11:54 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 261
Likes: 49
Liked 23 Times in 12 Posts
|
|
I don't advocate cutting down a 1917 (either version) but if you look around, you might find something that's already been hacked on.
Personally, I much prefer a 625 for serious use, but a chopped 1917 does have a certain something.
__________________
Hoot Gibson
|
02-02-2009, 11:52 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 456
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times in 7 Posts
|
|
Hoot,
That is a thing of beauty. Thamks for sharing that photo.
Bill
|
02-04-2009, 12:07 AM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 261
Likes: 49
Liked 23 Times in 12 Posts
|
|
Bill, my pleasure, and thank you!
__________________
Hoot Gibson
|
|
Tags
|
44 magnum, 45acp, cartridge, colt, fitz, lock, model 1917, model 625, primer, wwi, wwii |
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
|
|
|
|