Hi CH47gunner,

I did not want to hijack Diamondback68's thread on the LH 624's so I am starting a new one. Could you please tell me what handgun you carried in Viet Nam? I know this has been brought up from time to time about aircrew weapons. The helicopter crews I saw in West Germany in the mid 80's all seemed to have the Model 10 round butt with a white metal colored extension hanging out from under the butt that served as a lanyard attachment point. It was an "L" shaped bracket that was secured under the grip plate. It was not a swivel. There were alot of Chinooks over in West Germany when I was stationed there.
Thanks for your service to our country.

Hi CH47gunner,

I did not want to hijack Diamondback68's thread on the LH 624's so I am starting a new one. Could you please tell me what handgun you carried in Viet Nam? I know this has been brought up from time to time about aircrew weapons. The helicopter crews I saw in West Germany in the mid 80's all seemed to have the Model 10 round butt with a white metal colored extension hanging out from under the butt that served as a lanyard attachment point. It was an "L" shaped bracket that was secured under the grip plate. It was not a swivel. There were alot of Chinooks over in West Germany when I was stationed there.
Thanks for your service to our country.

SD95B -

We mostly carried S&W Model 10's w/ the 4" barrel.

Couple of reasons for this -
First, they gave Flight Platoon the choice of sidearms. Either a S&W M10 or a Colt 1911, the 1911 had such a poor reputation for accuracy and was so big & clunky, most of us chose the M10.
Second, the Six-gun was just racier. After getting our flight gear issued & first time we were able, we got down to the "gook" store and bought one of the fancy Buscadero "quick draw" rigs. Very Kool!
Being able to wear the Nomex flight suit & carry a six-gun low slung, it doesn't get any cooler than that. I don't think I wore regular fatigues again in RVN except when pulling perimeter or flightline guard.
We also were required to wear the all leather stateside style combat boots. As the Nylon sided jungle boots could melt into the pores of your skin if on fire. There's a pleasant thought.

Where, in Germany, were you stationed? I was stationed just outside of Stuttgart (Ludwigsburg) for a year. I had an absolute blast in Germany.

Thanks,

Bruce

Thanks for the quick reply Bruce. I have always found the weapons and equipment carried by aviators of all eras very interesting.

USAF pilots officially had the S&W M-15. But there weren't always enough to go around, so substitutions were made. Some carried .45 autos they had already been issued before the .38 was adopted about 1962.

Others carried personal sidearms, which was tolerated. Some were even told to bring their own handgun, as there weren't enough issue ones on hand.

Some Army helicopter pilots had snub .38's, S&W M-12 Airweights in many cases.

On my first carrier cruise to Vietnam (1965), I carried a beatup issue .38sp S&W Victory Model. Before each flight, I'd pull a tacky shoulder holster containing the revolver from a locker in the ready room. After the flight, I'd dump the rig back into that locker. So far as I know, no one ever did anything to them until the cruise was over. In any event, before my 1968 cruise, I bought a Browning High Power with two spare magazines. I picked up a surplus Air Force shoulder holster for the .45 1911, which was perfect for the High Power too. A parachute rigger set up two magazine holders along the chest strap and I was good to go. That was my personal weapon on my 68 and 72 cruises. When not flying, I kept it in the safe in my desk, beside a fifth or two of Old Crow picked up at Cubi Point -- a little night music. But don't tell anyone!
Cordially, Jack

I couldn't be in the military (medical/cancer) and always enjoy the stories you guys have. Thanks for writing it all down and thanks for serving.

Edit to add: Everytime I hear about Old Crow I think of Bud Anderson's P-51.

__________________
Centennial Every Day

Aircrews on the Helos at Tan San Nhut all carried M15 S&Ws and a small smattering of M34s.

Yea, I saw all kinds of pistols in Viet Nam. I carried a Remington 1911 .45 I bought from a Veit Nam trooper for $100 American.

I was a ground pounder, and was not authorized to carry a side arm but we all did it anyway.

It jammed on me in a fire fight, and I threw it at a dink coming my way. That bayonet looked like it was 10 feet long. I ran like hell, and my buddys wasted him. Of course I never did live it down but I traded it off later in base camp to a HUEY gunner for his model 15 Target.

I still have that model 15, Lots of memories..

I'll never carry an auto again. You could buy most anything on the Black Market over there, and there were mostly S&W revolvers.

Hey Bruce,

I missed your question about Germany when I initially read your reply. I was stationed in Mannheim.The Hueys and Chinooks I saw all flew out of Coleman Barracks in Mannheim-Sandhofen.

I was a helicopter pilot during 1967 and 1968, flying Huey's in the central highlands. My unit issued S&W model 10 with 4in barrel, or model 1911 45's. I chose to carry the 1911in a shoulder rig. We flew in jungle fatigues. I always figured the handgun was to throw at the bad guys so insisted my crew chief and gunner brought an M-14 not the M-16. If we went down, my plan was the crew guys would use the door guns and carry them, pilots use the M-14 and we'd all have the same ammo. By the grace of God I never had to see how that would work out. 12months, 978 combat flying hours and never shot down. Shot up but never down, AMEN.
John

Here are a couple of pics that I've posted before of a 1963 vintage model 10 in a "hog leg" western style holster.

It was carried by an Army Major over a 30 month period in Viet Nam who served with the 1st Cav Div 1st Abn Brigade, Special Forces, and MACV Advisory Group:



In 1971 or 1972, the revolver & rig was passed on to an Army Captain who served with a MACV Advisory Group in Qui Nhon:

__________________
Linda
SWCA #1965, SWHF #245

I was in Combat News on the central coast and was issued a M15 for use whenever flying or doing a story with the army. The only time I used it was on convoy duty with the army.

jsuppok -
That was our SOP - have the crewchief & gunner pull the M60's. Both times I went down, there wasn't time to get 'em.
I was in III Corps, 1st Aviation Brigade @ Phu Loi, our AO was the Iron Triangle, Parrots Beak, & Fish Hook. 1st Av. had no ground assets other than Aviation so what we did was fly support for other units such as 1st Cav.(don't get me started), 11th Armored Cav., 1st Infantry Div., 25th Infantry Div., and of course the ARVN's.

digi-shots -
Thanks, that's the one. Had to be Water Buffalo skin. Way cooler than a .45.

SD95B - Been thru Mannheim but, don't know it. I was with the 7th Medical Brigade, 421st Medivac Co. in Germany. The 421st was the only Army Medivac company in Germany. But, I think the 7th Med. was dissolved in 1992. I didn't fly much in the 421st, I wound up on the Security Police for a while and then was made PFCIC of the Dump.

Bruce

Thanks guys for a very informative thread. Can any of you out there confirm the use of the S&W Model 39 by Naval Aviators?

Also, a big thank you to all you current and former members of our armed forces. I saw a quote recently that defined a veteran as "someone who at some point in their life, wrote a blank check payable to the United States of America, for everything up to and including their life". I thought that was most humbling.

S&W 5 shot alu framed .38 spl, model numbers did not mean much in those days.

You guys are killing me with those GREAT graphics in your signature line. Custom made or is there a website that does that?

I also had to chime in on the aircrew carry weapons. I was a Crewchief (68-69) in the 335th AHC and our pilots carried handguns while the enlisted crew had M16s. Never knew why this was except our Company name was "The Cowboys" so maybe there was some concerns over possible gunfights in the revetments!!

lzhome -

First, welcome to the forum!
militarysignatures.com - sign-up for the small sigs are free but, you are limited to the amount of patches & awards. I'm still trying to figure out how to make mine a bit smaller. They have med. & large but, you'll need to subscribe.
Here's a link. http://militarysignatures.com/

huey -

Ever see anybody get zapped by the static charge? I was working the hole (we switched off) & after flying thru a small rain storm, we came in to pick up another sling-load. The Pathfinder standing on top of the load, for the hook-up, got zapped by the static electricity charge we had built up. Charge must have arced a foot & knocked him off the load. The Path-finders were a tough crowd.

Bruce

Thanks for the link, I'll give it a try.

oh yes I have.. zap.I went to the pathfinder school (8th ID).you need to use the grounding rod to the acft/load first.it takes the elect straight to ground.it makes you think when you have a sling load coming in with a bunch of H.E. rockets.a bigger kaboom than a glock

Static Charge? It happend to me only once and it was my last day in country.

My Huey A/C flew me to Ben Hoa to out-process back to the states. Since we arms onboard he couldn't touch down so I had to jump out at a hover. No problem until he streched out his are for a goodby hand shake and bingo...it got both of us.

The gentleman asked about the use of a model 39 S&W...the answer is Yes. I was in a Navy fighter squadron and the sidearms we used were M39s. We did have a few S&W 38s,but they were in bad shape. When I left the squadron, we had just received some .38 special airweight revolvers. The reason given for the change was the revolvers were better for signaling. We had man .38special tracers and .38 special flare cartridges.
Indiana

Yep, that's absolutely true.

I was a "Saigon Warrior" working at MACV in 1970. I had an appartment and girl downtown (both were unauthorized, of course ). The older guys (it didn't take much to be older since I turned 19 half way through my tour) who had been caught downtown in Tet '68 without a weapon told me to get one so I could fight my way back to MACV if that became necessary. So, I picked up an M3A1 with two magazines and ammo for $50.00 from a G.I. who was leaving country (probably originally stolen, oops I mean on loan, from a ROK unit). It was in great shape, I wish I could have brought it back home.

__________________
1st Signal Brigade, RVN '70

I was a Boomer on a flying gas station, carried a personally owned Colt GM. My Dad bought the gun for me in 1946. My youngest son now has the gun.

__________________
the world is round everywhere

Izhome, I too served with the 335th AHC 67 -68 (see my previous reply to this thread). I was platoon leader of the Mustangs for the last half of my tour. If you'd like to PM me, email is [email protected].
Good to see something from a fellow Cowboy.
John

The option of Model 12-Airweight w/2" bbl or Model 10 w/4" bbl was given our flight-crew on an EC47.

__________________
GA Carry member
Vietnam Vet

Denver Dick -
Saw a few of those (greaseguns), you know then there are no safeties on one of those, other than closing the dust-cover & locking the bolt. One of my partners (UH1 crewchief) packed one for a while. His doorgunner begged him to let him use it, which he did. The doorgunner didn't know about closing the dust cover & hung it up by the sling next to him, muzzle down. Greasegun banged on the metal support & went off, one rd., next to his foot. Pilot heard & asked where the fire was coming from. Scared the **** out of the doorgunner, pilot was pissed, hangar monkeys were pissed (hole in floor), Casey was pissed & lost his unauthorized weapon. Casey is still mad at doorgunners.

luangtom -
I had to run a search for EC47.
OMG - my Dad was a radio operator on C47's during WWII. He probably flew some of the same birds as you. Kinda like the B52 thing with the airframes being in service so long.

Izhome & jsuppock -
Are you guys members of the Vietnam Helicopter Crewmembers Association? This organization is for all helicopter crew, from all branches of service, with service in Vietnam. We have reunions every year, next years is in Reno, on June 17th to June 21st 2009.
Many of the individual aviation companies also have their reunions coincide with the VHCMA's. My unit, the 213th BlackCats does. Try to picture the guys you flew combat with only, 40 years later - scary. It's actually a blast.
Here's a link to the VHCMA -
http://www.vhcma.org/

Bruce

Personal weapons were tolerated in all the commands I was in (6 Yrs in country/3 tours) and I carried a S&W M19 w/4" barrel. The issue was a Model 10 from WWII or Korean War. I bought pistol(M19) in Saigon PX during first tour in 63 ( jumper then not aircrew)with MAU MACV. I came back each time (aircrew by then) via military air and was able to bring the M19. Quite a few jumpers and aircrew carried M19s, both 2 1/2 and 4" models.

My war was Korea, however I have a young cousin, a Marine Captain, who flew Cobra choppers in Nam. He carried a S&W 9mm semi-auto that he swapped from a Navy Seal. He liked it because it was an alloy frame and did not attract rust like other steel handguns carried by his buddies. He doesn't remember what the Model was called but it had to be a Model 39, as that was the pistol issued to Seals. It may have been a Hush Puppy version. He sold it to another pilot when he rotated home.

Sent you an email.. Jack

I know this is an old thread. I'm just now seeing it. I was with the 1st/28th Bn, 1st Infantry. 1968-1969 Quan Loi, Loc Ninh, An Loc, Zion. As a Infantry platoon leader I humped the Fish Hook, Iron Triangle and lots of other **** holes over there.

I cussed every time you guys dropped us off and I wanted to kiss you every time you picked us up. Never got the nerve to kiss (just kidding) any of you but I'm now going to salute you!!!!

__________________
Never shall I fail my comrades

This is a picture of my hooch mate, Hal, after a long day strapped onto a Huey. The revolver was pretty typical of the issue guns in the 190th AHC. I can't remember, but he looks like he's dress up for some official occasion.

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I took this picture from the left seat, with chalk 2 mugging for the camera. We were just waiting for that rain storm to go away so we could land. Notice the C-ration can for a feed ramp on the 60! I know this has nothing to do with S&W's, but it speaks volumes about weapons.

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I see my thread from almost 3 years ago is revived! In keeping with the military theme on this Memorial Day weekend, how many of you guys remember the serial number of your issued handgun? I bet some of you do as we all had them memorized at one time. I was issued a Remington Rand M1911-A1 in 1984 and the serial number was 1772209. I believe it was made in 1944. It was 40 hears old at the time, more than twice my age back then. It is funny how you can remember something like that but I can't remember what I had for dinner last night.Happy Memorial Day Brothers and God bless our troops! Man, do I love this forum!!

As an infantry grunt in 1969 in II corp with the 4th division the only one that carried a side arm was the company commander and he had a Colt 1911. I had a high school buddy that was on a flight crew of a Heuy slick and was there the same time and he bought on his own a Browning HP from someone over there that he flew with.

I was in the 101st. I carried a S&W model 10 with 4 inch barrel. My last issue was a new in the box round butt. I got a buscadero rig for it. The cartridge loops in the back of the rig put pressure on my spine when flying the OH-6A (Loach). The back of the seat consisted of an armored plate. After I lost feeling in my thighs, the flight surgeon grounded me and said that I needed to change to a shoulder holster (which I did). After a couple of weeks of being grounded, I was going nuts. I went back to the flight surgeon and told him that the feeling had come back. It did come back after several months.

I have recently received a few us marked model 10 round butts with 4 inch barrels. I had 5 but now I'm down to 3 of them.

I was stationed at Baumholder with the 8th ID '72-74. I went to Mannheim many times. I had more than one ride on the Hueys back then.