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S&W Revolvers: 1961 to 1980 3-Screw PINNED Barrel SWING-OUT Cylinder Hand Ejectors WITH Model Numbers


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  #1  
Old 09-22-2008, 09:43 PM
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Fellow Members,

A few months ago, I joined and introduced myself in the New Members forum.
I mentioned that my joining had been spurred by some weapons of my father and grandfather that had been passed down to me.

One member replied with something along the lines of: “Welcome to the forum. How about some pictures!”

Well it has taken me a while but here is a picture of one: a .357 Combat Magnum of my father’s.



And aside from just posting one picture of the pistol, I was hoping that if I posted some other pictures, some of the “pros” around here might be able to glean some details from them and possibly tell me a little about what I have here.

This is the end label of the box:




And the face of the (2 piece) box itself:




I have Supica and Nahas, 3rd edition, but do not see this exact box anywhere in the section about “boxes.”

There is some mention (p.32) of sometimes seeing the serial number being “written in grease pencil on the bottom of the box.” This is the case with mine. Is anyone sure of any particular meaning of this?




The only date I see anywhere is on the inside of the box:




And finally, there is this stamp on the yoke:



(Hastily viewed, the first letter might appear to be a “W”, but it is certainly a “K” [isn't it!].)


I remember, as it were yesterday, my Daddy taking me out with him to a friend’s farm, when I was but a slight little 15 y/o lad, to shoot this pistol! We set up anti-freeze cans and such full of water. Hard to say what jumped the most when that gun fired, the anti-freeze cans or me!!!

So, needless to say, this pistol has great sentiment and interest for me. Any information about my “family heirloom” would be greatly appreciated. If anyone can “show it to me” in Supica and Nahas, where I can read about it, that would be really great!

Thanks,

James
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Old 09-22-2008, 10:02 PM
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James ,again ,welcome to the forum. Sorry to hear of your loss ,no matter how long ago it was.

Your fathers Combat Magnum was one of the first 1000 produced and probably shipped in 1956.

Remove the stocks (grips) carefully ,,and the actual ser.# will be on the bottom of the grip frame.

It's touching to hear of how you shot the revolver with your pop when you were a kid. I have no such memories ,but would like some good ones like that .

Others will add info. as this goes on , one thing for sure ,,that gun sure is a beauty!

Page 136 in the 3rd. ed. of S.c.S.W. has the info on the first K Frame 357s.


Regards ,AL
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Old 09-22-2008, 10:04 PM
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James,

We found this forum for the same reason. You are very lucky to have fond memories of your father. You have a wonderful Combat Magnum (Pre-Model 19). You can read about it on page 136 of the SCSW 3rd. It was most likely shipped in 1955. I hope that helps.

You might be interested in this completed auction:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=108540115
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Old 09-22-2008, 10:19 PM
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You have a very collectible piece, and not just because of the sentimental attachment to your dad.
The Combat Magnum began at serial number K260001, and many tens of thousands followed. Yours is one of the first 1000. Those early guns such as yours are generally very well finished with a deep, rich blue and mechanically superb.
Yours is a "keeper" for several reasons. Thanks for sharing the history and pictures of a magnificent revolver.
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Old 09-22-2008, 10:24 PM
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Al,

Thanks for the information you provided.

And although I appreciate your compassionate words, I would like to clarify that my father is, in fact, still living (though in precipitous decline I am sad to say).

It was my dear step-mother who came across this weapon (and many more!) one day cleaning out some old closets, and called and said "I came across this cache of guns, I don't want them here, you need to come get them!"

So, trying to be brief in my OP, that's why I used the phrase "passed down" instead of "inherited", but without the details I see that was misleading. So, as Paul Harvey used to say, now you have the rest of the story.

And btw, I had no trouble complying with my stepmother's request!

JamesD
_ ____________________________ _

jeremyws1,

I followed your link - GREAT STORY! And picture! Thanks!

JamesD
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Old 09-22-2008, 10:51 PM
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John,

You posted while I was typing.
Thanks for adding more information and comments.

I knew this pistol was special to me, but y’alls comments make it even more special.


The day I brought it home, this is what I first saw when I took the box top off.
I assume this is the oily paper the gun came wrapped in?




When I lifted off the oily paper:




And the best part of the whole experience –
the pistol was wrapped in an old, oily “wife beater”, an old undershirt of my Dad's, worn out and assigned “gun duty” I guess.




Contents of box:




And, oh, this is the box of ammunition found with the gun.
Jeepers Dad, who were you expecting?




It was quite an experience “unearthing” this treasure, that I remembered, but had not seen for 50 years
(hmmm... that’s a half of a century isn’t it? OUCH!)

James
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Old 09-22-2008, 11:05 PM
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Nice gun, nice story, and great chronological photo series. Good looking stocks too,

Kind of like going into an Egyption pyrimid and opening one of the boxes.

Don't shoot the ammo, and don't get rid of anything in the box. The stocks and screwdriver are valuable. The package is pretty desirable.
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Old 09-23-2008, 02:16 AM
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As pbslinger said, that's a very desirable package as all the original papers and tools are there. That nifty screwdriver with the knurled handle routinely sells for around $100 all by itself on the auction sites. The ammo is quite a prize as well.
You have a wonderful heirloom and a valuable "collectible" S&W.
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Old 09-23-2008, 02:40 AM
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James Very nice pictures…I really enjoy looking at the detail in close-ups in good pictures…Some times its just the way a paper corner has wore on a box of ammo…Thanks for taking the time to help make this one of the best firearms forum there is……………Fred
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Old 09-23-2008, 04:10 AM
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I am sure you intend to, but to make it clear, "You hang onto that ********!"Tha's an order!

It is a treasure not only from a sentimental point of view, but from a financial one too.
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Old 09-23-2008, 04:49 AM
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Great gun! But do not shoot the ammo. That box of conical points is probably very collectible in their own right.
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Old 09-23-2008, 05:01 AM
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And another thing is obvious from your posting. Your dad sure had an eye for fine firearms and the sense to take care of them.
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Old 09-23-2008, 06:00 AM
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Quote:
Your dad sure had an eye for fine firearms and the sense to take care of them.
He said it.

It is great to see the Combat Magnum reunited with its new and rightful owner. What a terrific looking revolver you have there! Much as I like Model 29s, I have to say the Combat Magnum is the most handsome revolver S&W ever made, and that one of yours is a peach!
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Old 09-23-2008, 06:30 AM
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Wow

"Time Capsule" gun indeed, Treat it well.
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Old 09-23-2008, 06:48 AM
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That is such a cool K frame. That's a great story too. Don't ever let go of that gun.
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Old 09-23-2008, 07:22 AM
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What a great post! Just like watching Antiques Roadshow.

What a wonderful item to have and with great memories.

p.s. If that isn't the best testimony for RIG, I don't know what is!
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Old 09-23-2008, 07:35 AM
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Great set! Be VERY careful of that wifebeater - I purchased a C*** Woodsman Match Target for $50 because it had been wrapped in a towel and put away. If it hadn't been wrapped in a towel, it wouldn't have been deeply pitted, and would have been worth $600-$800 or maybe more. Not quite the loss that yours would be, but still significant. Get some gun grease, RIG if you can find it.
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Old 09-23-2008, 01:51 PM
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Everyone,

Without trying to mention every one by name, I quite appreciate and am enjoying every post from each of you. THANKS!

A couple of followups I have:

_ _____________________ _


A number of y’all have said, “Don’t shoot that ammo.” Roger that.
But what about the pistol?
Do y’all mind if I shoot it.
Not talking about keeping it in the glove compartment of my car, and dragging it around everywhere, and turning it into a beater.
But every now and then. Special occasion here and there. With some quality/clean ammunition.
I’ve really got a hankerin’ to shoot it! See what it is like relative to my memories of 50 years ago.
Comments?
_ _____________________ _


And a question re: comment of Model520Fan to “Be VERY careful of that wifebeater.”
I was thinking – oily gun in oily rag was about optimal.
No?
Comments on this please?
_ _____________________ _


Fred said, “I really enjoy looking at the detail in close-ups in good pictures”, so I thought I would post a larger picture of the pamphlet that was in the box.
Maybe all of y’all have seen this many times before, but it was new to me and just such a hoot.
After hearing all the hullabaloo over stance and grip (Weaver, Chapman, high thumbs, whatever) I was glad to finally get it definitively, directly from S&W:

Stand in a relaxed posture, leaning slightly back, with your offhand thumb hooked casually in your pants pocket.



_ _____________________ _


And... one thing I have not mentioned about this pistol is the <span class="ev_code_BLUE">condition</span>.
The condition of the stocks and pistol itself is generally quite excellent.
Except for one “question” and one “problem”.

The “question”:
Is this “mottling” on the trigger and hammer “normal” or something “bad”?







And the <span class="ev_code_RED">"problem"</span>:

This is the one and only real problem on the pistol.
I don’t know if this properly called “rust” or “corrosion”?
If it involves the metal? Or just the bluing?
But I would greatly appreciate any comments.
And do I replace the thumbpiece? Reblue it? Keep it oiled and don’t touch it further?




Thanks,

James
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Old 09-23-2008, 02:08 PM
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Don't worry about the value of your gun too much, I'm sure you will never sell it. Shoot it seldom and take good care of it.

The finish on the hammer and trigger is color case hardening, and that is what it should look like. It fades a bit with age and some look more spectacular than others. It is probably a bit more prone to rust than the blueing.

The rust on the thumb peice, I would just keep it oiled and not worry about it.

You might want to lube the gun before you shoot it. The normal way to lube one is to detail strip and remove the sideplate. I wouldn't do that since the sideplate has probably never been off. I would remove the stocks, flush the lockwork with aerosol lubricant, alternating with compressed air to blow out crud.

There is better storage than an oily rag, even though this gun survived it well. Treated gun rugs are probably better, in a humidity controlled environment.
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Old 09-23-2008, 02:37 PM
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See, that wasn't so hard, was it?
(posting the pix)

Owning guns with stories are terrific....
thanks for sharing yours with us..oh,
and the pix, too
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Old 09-23-2008, 03:29 PM
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You might try taking that thumb piece off the gun and gently scrub it with a "tooth brush" (the soft brass bristle type) and some gun oil. I wouldn't bother getting it re-blued. It's original and gives the gun a little "character".
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Old 09-23-2008, 05:20 PM
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I would guess the gun retailed for about 50 bucks when your dad bought it and today it would be worth over a thousand. I would like to compliment you on your photos and invite you to post pics of the other guns even if they aren't
Smiths. Many of the members here love good pics of old guns.
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Old 09-23-2008, 06:02 PM
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Here's an ad from an early 1956 distributor which includes that particular revolver.
Ed
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Old 09-23-2008, 08:19 PM
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You're a lucky man - for more than one reason. Thanks for posting - and enjoy that gun.

Jerry
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Old 09-23-2008, 08:35 PM
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What'll you take for the T-Shirt?

Great story, gun, and Dad. You are fortunate.

Thanks for sharing.
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Old 09-23-2008, 08:52 PM
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Awesome revolver and an even better story to go with it.

You really can work some magic with a camera also.

Congratulations,
Scott
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Old 09-23-2008, 09:11 PM
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<span class="ev_code_WHITE">.</span>

"Thanks all" is OK, but I'm sorta old fashioned so...

Al, thanks again for the first post I got.

And again to you Jeremy.

Thanks for both posts pbslinger. Good information and good advice all ‘round, especially "color case hardening" which I hadn't known of. I just went and read about it. Very cool, sort of like raku pottery!

Likewise John. (p.s. $100 for a screwdriver is a LOT. But I’m not temped; stays with the gun SMILE)

Thanks Fred. I’m “getting” so much from this forum, I’m happy the pics and story were enjoyed.

Iggy – your order WILL be obeyed!

Good advice tbury.

Walnutred – yes he did.

Thanks for your words M29.

Roger that, AksRule.

Thanks yugolovr.

Antiques Roadshow! For me that’s about what it was like Photoman. Thanks.

I’m with ya now 520Fan. It may be headed for a Bore-Store.

Hey photohause, I can’t find my New Member post anymore. Are you saying that was you?

Thanks G-Mac, and I agree – perfect is OK, but “history” and “character” are fine also!

Farmer, thanks for the photo compliment. I would love to post others as I work through these guns. A couple of Smiths. Where should non-Smiths go? This same area OK?

Great old ad Ed! Thanks! (hope you don’t mind if I harvest it, print it, and keep it with the gun! )

‘preciate it, j38.

T-shirt not for sale, semperfi

Thanks for your kind words Scott; it’s something I enjoy doing.

James
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Old 09-24-2008, 05:23 AM
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I really injoyed the post and Pic's. I guess alot can be said for RIGS. Talk about standing the test of time.
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Old 09-24-2008, 06:09 AM
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That is a super gun in every way! I wouldn't do anything to that little spot on the cylinder release. If you wipe a some RIG on there it won't get any worse.
You are very lucky to have such a nice heirloom with good memories attached to it.
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Old 09-24-2008, 06:41 AM
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My comment on not shooting the ammo was not aimed at the gun. Shoot it, enjoy it, take care of it and your grandsons will still have it to enjoy. That gun is as strong today as it was when new. For storage I use Bore Store gun rugs after a good treatment with a cleaner, lubricator, protectant product. Cotton type shirts actually draw and hold moisture, your wifebeater probably had enough oil in the fabric that it did not cause a problem but the gun deserves a better cover.
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Old 09-24-2008, 11:19 PM
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Congrats on coming into a wonderful gun. I too am sorry to hear about your father - but you have a piece of his history to linger with you.

Can you do me a favor and take a photo of the back strap - I'm trying to determine when they went from a 6 groove back strap to a 10 groove BS.

BTW - I have K260035 - not in near as nice of condition and no box or screwdriver, but the old CMs are really nice and a great start on a CM collection!
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Old 09-25-2008, 05:33 AM
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RK...Can't give you exact information, but Combat Magnum K261345 (June 1956) has six grooves and K264305 (August 1957) has ten grooves. All we need to do is fill is a few more data points and we should have the information you want. Also, the change would have been made for the K-frame line of revolvers, so the Combat Magnum may not have been the first model to have ten grooves.

The change took place on the N-frame at approximately S166800 (a 1955 Target 45).

Bill
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Old 09-25-2008, 06:10 AM
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Bill:

One more data point - CM K262252 also has 10 grooves...
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Old 09-25-2008, 07:28 AM
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RK...that gets us pretty close (at least within 900 serial numbers or so). This should date the change to late 56 or early 57 (about the same timeframe as the N-frame change).

Bill
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Old 09-25-2008, 08:28 AM
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JamesD;
Congrats on one outstanding revolver!

You should note that Doc44 has posted on your thread. Hang around here long enough and you will appreciate what that means.

Jim
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Old 09-25-2008, 08:46 AM
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That is one nice gun. A real keeper.
John
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Old 09-25-2008, 10:34 AM
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The Combat Magnum has always been one of my favorite models and yours is a near pristine example that has a family history. Guns like that are some of the rarest.

Bill
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Old 09-25-2008, 08:25 PM
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Hi Everyone.


RK, nothing would please me more than to take a picture of the backstrap for you, but I think subsequent posts have rendered such a picture unnecessary. Yes? My 260994 backstrap is indeed a 6 groover. Of course, if you wanted a picture of the backstrap for any other reason (or any other part) please let me know.
_ ___________________________________________________________ _

I do have a comment and question re: the post from Allen-frame. He said:

“Remove the stocks (grips) carefully ,,and the actual ser.# will be on the bottom of the grip frame.”

And of course it is.

But also, the SN is micro inscribed on the concave wall of the recessed place where the “center pin” (? Is that the name of the rod you push to eject the cartridges?) goes when you swing the cylinder into place. Is that only on the older ones? Or is that universal, and Al just didn’t mention this other place where you can find the SN? Just wondering.
_ ___________________________________________________________ _

And one question I didn’t ask earlier:
The number on the yoke (yoke?): KO 302 84
What exactly is this #, and what/any information in particular is conveyed here?
_ ___________________________________________________________ _

Jim (mod29),

I don’t have experience on this forum to truly appreciate exactly what you’re saying, but I’ve been on this earth long enough to certainly understand what you’re getting at. Thanks for pointing this out to me.
_ ___________________________________________________________ _

Thanks for your comment about my gun, Doc.
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What a forum.

James
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  #39  
Old 09-25-2008, 08:51 PM
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Very nice!!! Thanks for sharing!!!
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Old 09-25-2008, 10:05 PM
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Thanks for sharing all the pics of this historic firearm and the other items that were with it. I have one of those armor piercing W-W rounds. I can't remember where I got it from.
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Old 09-26-2008, 03:43 AM
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Great pics, great Smith and a great story, thanks for sharing.

You mentioned your step mom finding a cache of guns, out of curiosity, what other guns did you find?
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Old 09-26-2008, 07:42 AM
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The serial number was stamped on most models in several locations through 1956...bottom of the grip frame, rear surface of the cylinder, in the ejector rod shroud, bottom side of the extractor, and on the rear surface of the yoke. The last two locations did not include the K (or S in the case of N-frame models).

The assembly number (a four or five digit number) was stamped in the yoke cut and on the yoke.

Bill
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  #43  
Old 09-26-2008, 10:19 AM
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wow wow wow!!! man that is great keep it put up an buy another to shoot.thanks for showing the photos.
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Old 09-26-2008, 04:58 PM
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Great story, excellent pictures. Thanks so much for sharing!

And by the way, Welcome to the forum.
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Old 09-26-2008, 06:41 PM
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This is the coolest thread/post I've seen in sometime! The Registered Magnum by a very nice forum member last week or so was a stunner, but this is simply cool because of the family connection. Thank you for sharing it with us!
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Old 09-26-2008, 10:59 PM
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tonysoprano, H P, rags and Blackcloud,

A lot of the time (on a forum; in life?!?) people look but don’t bother to comment, or say “thanks”, etc.
Everybody here has been so nice with their comments.
Thanks.
_ _____________________________________________ _

Ahh so... the “assembly number”. I was wondering what the KO 302 84 on the yoke was. Thanks, Doc.
_ _____________________________________________ _

Steave,

Well, “cache”... I don’t know; you gotta understand that was my step mom: “Guns!!! Eeek !!!”
And several of what she found are pretty mundane (my first BB gun and .22, etc.)
But there are a few that I have some interest in finding out more about, and which I think are pretty nice.
Maybe, as I am able to, I can trade y’all some pictures of these for some information, sorta like we did here.
_ _____________________________________________ _

sw44spl,

You are a troublemaker! Or at the very least an enabler:

<span class="ev_code_BLUE">“wow wow wow!!! man that is great; keep it, put up, and buy another to shoot.
thanks for showing the photos”</span>

Yes, it’s already happened.
These last few days here have made me feel my yen and my yang, my feng and my shui, are out of balance.
I think I need some S&W revolvers to balance my semiautos and restore harmony in the universe.
What do you think? Good idea?
_ _____________________________________________ _


James
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  #47  
Old 05-03-2009, 05:42 PM
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Good post. My dad had one just like it, albeit not as old. He bought it in the '80's. We went shooting together a few times. I distictly remember him shooting the Federal 125 grain JHP load through it. What I remember was the fireball! That's why they call them hand cannons! Dad passed just before Christmas. This one will never be sold. Looks just about like yours. The bluing is a lot better than it looks in this pic. It's the typical S&W high polish goodness.

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Old 05-06-2009, 04:53 AM
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My first "real" handgun was a Model 19 that my father took me to buy in 1970 just after I graduated high school..it was bought with a matching Model 18.

After 10K rounds of .357 Magnums the gun went back to the factory for a tightening and refinish. The gun was nickeled and at my request the front ramp was removed and left blue with a yellow inset. After 10K more rounds the gun was sold in 1980 still with original box looking like new... In the 20K documented rounds of ammo through the gun only one box of factory .357s and 6 .38 Special rounds were ever shot. All the rest were hand loads with either cast Lyman/Thompson gascheck 357156 bullet or the old Speer 146 3/4 jacket HP...

Great memories of the Combat Magnums...Bob
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Old 05-06-2009, 12:47 PM
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JamesD,

Welcome to the forum and thanks for sharing your photos and memories with us. This has been mentioned before, so excuse me if this is redundant, but one thing I've done ever since I was young was to completely clean the firearm - including removing the furniture if possible, and then applying a few coats of wax to the outer surfaces - especially the areas covered by stocks and/or grips. I would do this at least twice a year with good results. I used Turtle wax, or whatever was in the garage, but other forum members have reported using Johnson's wax, or Renaissance brand wax. In over 40 years of usage, I've never had any rust on amy of my firearms. As far as your revolver is concerned, I'd go by the old rule of "use it, but don't abuse it".

Also, your exchange with Al reminded me of the story of the fresh-out-of-medical school doctor and his routine annual office visit with one of his first patients (Pt), an elderly, but obviously healthy gentleman:

MD: Sir, before I get started, I just wanted to compliment you on your observing and following good health habits. I was telling my nurse that you have the lab tests and EKG results of a man in his early 20's. Just out of curiosity, how old was your father when he passed?

Pt: Wait a minute, when did my dad die? What do you know that I don't?

MD: Oh, forgive me sir, I just assumed that given your age, your father had already passed on. I am sorry for that mistake, but I am now wondering what do you attribute your, as well as your father's great health?

Pt: Dad and I are both farmers and always have been. We farm next door to each other, and both of us work everyday. Dad also teaches part-time at the local community college as well.

MD: Well, just out of curiosity, how old was his father when he passed away?

Pt: Who said anything about Grand Dad being dead? He's as healthy as a horse, and in fact, he just married a nice young lady a couple of months ago.

MD: Sir, I do apologize to you again, but at the same time, I can't but wonder why a gentleman of his obvious advanced age would ever want to get married.

Pt: Who said he wanted to get married?

Best of luck,

Dave
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Old 05-06-2009, 01:00 PM
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Very nice 19 and great story...let us know how it shoots

BTW
Welcome to the forum and thanks for saying thanks.
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