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S&W Revolvers: 1961 to 1980 3-Screw PINNED Barrel SWING-OUT Cylinder Hand Ejectors WITH Model Numbers


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  #1  
Old 01-04-2009, 07:49 AM
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You know, before I came to this sight, I never had a question about my Smith's...I would just buy them and use them. Every chance I get I read as many posts as I can, and questions start popping into mind! Here's one: What is the difference between the Mod 17 K-22 Masterpiece, and the Mod 18 K22 Combat Matserpiece, or the later versions of both guns. Other than barrel lenghts, they look identical!
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Old 01-04-2009, 07:49 AM
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You know, before I came to this sight, I never had a question about my Smith's...I would just buy them and use them. Every chance I get I read as many posts as I can, and questions start popping into mind! Here's one: What is the difference between the Mod 17 K-22 Masterpiece, and the Mod 18 K22 Combat Matserpiece, or the later versions of both guns. Other than barrel lenghts, they look identical!
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Old 01-04-2009, 07:52 AM
Kenneth L. Walters Kenneth L. Walters is offline
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At one time there was a matching 38 special revolver to the model 18. I think that the idea was that if you owned both you could do subcaliber practice with the model 18.
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Old 01-04-2009, 08:47 AM
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Generally speaking, the M18 had a 4" tapered barrel and was the .22 caliber equivalent of the .38 Special Model 15 (K38 Combat Masterpiece). The front sight on both guns is the Baughman Quick Draw ramp style.

The M17 had a 6" or 8-3/8" straight-walled "semi-heavy" barrel, and was the .22 caliber equivalent of the .38 Special Model 14 (K38 Target Masterpiece). The front sight on these guns is the Patridge target style.

There are exceptions to the above comparisons, but those are the commonly encountered configurations.
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Old 01-04-2009, 08:58 AM
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........but, is the 17 and 18 the "same gun", just with different model numbers? I guess thats the point I was trying to make. Back to your point, I had heard or read that police depts used the Mod 18 for recruit firearms training, and then moved them up to the 38 service revolvers. So as I understand it, the 18 came in the 4" service barrel lenght, and the 17 in 6 1/2" and 8 3/8" barrel lenghts, but, the 17 also came in 4" barrel lenghts as well. Would the 17 and 18 in 4" barrels lenghts be the same gun...just different model numbers? I am confusing myself here.
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Old 01-04-2009, 09:00 AM
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Thanks Skeezix! I posted my reply before I had seen yours! Are the frames of these two models (17 and 18) identical?
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Old 01-04-2009, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by flat top:
Thanks Skeezix! I posted my reply before I had seen yours! Are the frames of these two models (17 and 18) identical?
Yes, unless there's something I don't know about.
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Old 01-04-2009, 11:56 AM
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If one were to find a Model 17 with a 4" barrel it should be of a slightly heavier profile than that of a model 18 barrel. The front sight may be different as well.
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Old 01-04-2009, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
The Diff: Mod 17, Mod 18.
That's a trick question, but I think the answer is that the frames are different (for model marked guns). In the early 1950's, when both the K-22 Masterpiece and the K-22 Combat Masterpiece had tapered barrels, the frames were the same. They both had flutes at the top front corners of the frame to provide an esthetically pleasing transition to the rib. The lettering is in the same place on both barrels and the 4” ramp is retained with pins that are left proud. I suspect they took 6” K-22 barrels, cut them down and attached the longer combat style front ramp before bluing. When the K-22 Masterpiece (6”) received the heavy barrel, the frame flutes were eliminated. The K-22 Combat Masterpiece continued to have the narrow rib (and the frame flutes), so the two frames were different. When model numbers were assigned in 1957, they identified them separately because you couldn’t just put different length barrels on finished frames like you could with most other models. S&W tracked the Chiefs Special and the Military and Police variations which had standard and heavy barrels (and slightly different frames) in a similar fashion, only they used revision levels to differentiate them instead of assigning a new number. The Model 18 was discontinued in the mid 1980’s and replaced with the 4” heavy barrel Model 17 which eliminated a unique frame.

(Early 1950’s K-22 and K-22 Combat Masterpiece, Mid-1960’s Model 17-2)

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K-22 Combat Masterpiece (notice the flutes)

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K-22 Masterpiece (flutes)

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Model 17-2 (no flutes)

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Early barrel comparisons

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Old 01-04-2009, 07:30 PM
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thanks, I think
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Old 01-04-2009, 07:33 PM
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So, I can get a 6" k-38 masterpiece and a 6" K-22 Masterpiece.?
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Old 01-04-2009, 07:35 PM
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It looks like we can add the M16 K32 masterpiece?
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Old 01-04-2009, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by duckloads:
So, I can get a 6" k-38 masterpiece and a 6" K-22 Masterpiece.?
You better check with your wife first.

Quote:
Originally posted by duckloads:
It looks like we can add the M16 K32 masterpiece?
Check with your financial advisor on that one!
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Old 01-04-2009, 07:53 PM
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S&Wchad- I noticed that when you posted pictures of the frames displaying the flutes, that the cylinders are different on the two guns. The Masterpiece has slight beveling at the corners of the cylinder flutes, while the Combat Masterpiece doesn't. If these guns are from the same relative time period, when did this change take place? Which came first, with, or without the bevel? Thanks for any info.

P.S.- My 17-3 Masterpiece doesn't have the bevel like yours.
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Old 01-04-2009, 08:37 PM
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I don't know nothing about no bevels!

It could be the photos, but the cylinders look the same to me on all three guns (except for a darker blue on the 17-2). All have the sharp corners at the front of the cylinder flutes knocked off, but it varies a little even from flute to flute.

I suspect the biggest cylinder change was reversing the ejector rod threads around 1959.

There's a lot of speculation on my part , so don't take it too seriously. It makes sense to me, but crazy people think they make sense too! [img]http://www****nemasterstudios.com/graemlins/images/spin.gif[/img]
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Old 01-05-2009, 06:39 AM
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A while back, we had a discussion about very early .22 Combat Masterpiece configurations. A few people here (myself included) own examples with front sight ramp mounting pins polished flush with the barrel rib (subsequent guns had pins that stood proud of the rib, and with rounded ends) and Baughman sight blades slightly flattened at the top. As I recall, the consensus was that this was the way some CMs were made, especially at first.

I think that applying absolutes to the configuration of any of these S&W models might be feckless; the factory made many unannounced running changes to all their models, and this both frustrates and delights collectors!

Tim
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Old 01-05-2009, 07:31 AM
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Thanks all!! this is very interesting stuff!!! I guess another question would be: other than cosmetic changes, the internal parts of both would be the same?
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Tags
baughman, combat masterpiece, ejector, flutes, k-22, k22, k38, m16, m17, masterpiece, military, model 14, model 15, model 16, model 17, patridge, target masterpiece, transition

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