my 14-1 was shipped to lackland afb texas on march 28 1961 it was shipped with a 6 inch barrelth tt checkered target grips, this shipment was for 50 units, some were returned to the factory and the barrels changed to 4 inch,

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WILL WORK FOR AMMO!

I don't consider myself a collector....having no interest in engraved guns, etc. I've always considered firearms to be used. But...if I could get myself a Mod 15 that could be verfied to have been used by the air force and stamped with the USAF I would jump at the chance!

Still have my SP Shield that was issued to me upon graduating from training at Lackland back in 1980. When I retired in 2000 I turned in two others that I had been issued but was allowed to keep my origional that I wore through out my USAF career, spent 20 years in the Security Police. Sure wish I could get my hands on one of those M-15's, just because. Never did really care for the M-9. I would have prefered if the SIG 226 had won the contract. I think it's a better firearm. However politics will prevail in the end.

My shield was issued at the academy and was retired with me after 27 years of Security Police/Forces duty. 13 active, 14 reserve. I retired in 1997.

The gear here is original AF issue, including the S&W AF Law Enforcement holster. The short billy was courtesy of the 380th SPS, Plattsburgh AFB, NY, used on town patrol in the late 1950's.

Best to all of my brothers in arms here.

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Take your time..quickly.

I used to shoot NRA Hunter's Pistol Silhouette matches at the old K.I. Sawyer AFB outside Marquette, MI many years ago. The gate guards had what looked like M15s from my truck. They were all long-barreled, never saw an M56.

Most looked in pretty good shape but one I used to notice was visibly rusted.

When the base closed the range we shot on was destroyed. This despite the fact that the local police academy was setting up shop
on the old base. The rationale was lead contamination.

I figure it was just a bunch of bureaucratic types wasting our tax
money.

FWIW I've got to insert my 2c. I would love to have an AF Marked M-15. I spent 22 years in the Air Force and the first time I was issued a M-15 was as a Butter Bar Pay Master (beck in the days when we paid in cash). Most of my AF time was as a Special Agent in the AFOSI. When I first entered OSI our issue weapon was the M-15, most with 4" barrels. I saw a few 2" barrels and just assumed they were M-15s although they may well have been M-56s. Part of the AFOSI mission was to investigate major crimes in and against the Air Force. One case type was "Theft of Government Property" and I am aware of several cases where theft of M-15s was the issue. I personnaly investigated several. While we got convictions on occasion, our recovery rate of the revolvers was not high. When investigated as "theft" the SNs were entered into the NCIC. I'm sure there was "leakage" as mentioned above and have no knowledge of whether those were entered or not, but there are some hot ones out there. There are also some legitimate examples out there also. I have no knowledge of any being provided to civilian LE, but it is entirely plausible. I do know that some were sold/given to foreign LE agencies and it is also possible that some of those have returned home. As I said, I would love to have one, even a comemorative. Keep shootin' and check 6.

I bought mine for 110.00-125 from a Police Supply store in late 80's early 90s, they had about 4-5 on display, so doubt they were stolen. Mine is in storage somewhere , I used the target hammer /trigger in another gun, may have to switch them back now that there is such an interest in these.. Bob

Odlafsb
is that a "Dun Hume" belt ?

I could almost believe that this was General LeMay's personal weapon with stocks made by Keith Brown.

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-jwk-
US Army '72-'95

I got the one in Sweden for a real bargain price a few years ago, previous owner died and sold by a small gun shop. Got a permit for it so it was screened in the Federal Swedish Police Database so not reported as stolen over here. I'm real curious how it made it over here. Checked the S/N recall it was made in 1967. Exterior parkerized, read that those with bad finish were parkerized by the AF. Slight visible external pitting, however perfect bore and internally no signs of corrosion. Action smoth as silk. Generally nice condition, however, at removal of grips I detected that frame under grip panels was severly corroded, pin completely rusted away. Moisture or corrosive substance must have been trapped here over time. Anybody that got an idea where it came from and what happened to it, tropical environment, salt water exposure?

Nope, this belt was made under contract for the Air Force. Most likely by Cathay Enterprises or Gould and Goodrich (S&W's contractor) in 1980.

Prior to that, the garrison belt, 2 inches wide was the standard issue. The garrison belt was a joke. Designed for the Class A uniform back in the late 1940's and used until 1980.

There was a concerted effort amongst the Security Police Instructors between 1977 and 1979 to get the gear up to par with civilian counterparts.

I was proud to be part of that group of NCO's that brought the changes about.

Shown below is the makers stamping for the AF.



And the aforementioned garrison belt. Which was really a horrible way to carry your weapon and gear for a shift.



Hope this was helpful. I have numerous examples of all the gear we used over my career. Some of it new and unissued. I guess I'm just an old pack rat.

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Take your time..quickly.

OldAFSP:

Very nice rig. From the CAGE code on the belt I can tell you that it was actually made by Hunter Corporation. These SP belts were supplied by several different manufacturers, including those you mentioned.

BTW, do you have a date on when the photo of the female SP was taken and where?

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

Charlie, not to butt in, but we got our first female SP at my base in Thailand in early 1975. She was the wife of one of our SP's who cross-trained to the SP career field.
That picture from oldafsp looks like Lackland AFB, Texas, probably the first place they used them as the SP tech school was there. And the S&W holster was first issued in the early 1970's.

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John

That photo came from the Security Police Museum archives. It sure looks like the old Gate 3 off Military Blvd at Lackland.

The first class of 7 women graduated in 1971. The first female K-9 handlers graduated in 1973.

BY 1975, according to AF records, there were just over 1100 female SP officers, all assigned to Law Enforcement (812XX) duties, and over half of them were assigned out of CONUS.

Hope this is helpful.

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Take your time..quickly.

Thanks, oldafsp.
I graduated from Tech School in November, 1971. I didn't realize we had female SP's that early.

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John

Looks like there are a good many former SFs here. Up until about 5 years ago, I worked at the USAF Gunsmith Shop at Lackland AFB, on the Medina Training Annex. One of my projects which I was not happy about at the time was converting, I think, 10 or 12 of those nice revolvers for ceremonial use by honor guards. That involved welding the barrels, and also welding together the internal parts to make them inoperative. I don't remember any of them having USAF markings. I seem to remember they were shipped to Lackland from Anniston Depot, so it's possible they could have come from another service. All were in excellent condition, except the magna grip panels (they were the type with diamonds) on most required refinishing.

By the way, the picture above may have been taken at Lackland, but I can't think of any view from any of the Lackland gates in my memory looking like that, either at main base or the annex. It does look like there is a static aircraft display on the left side, and there is something similar inside the Medina gate, so it could have been there - but I doubt it. Possibly the Valley Hi gate? Things do change over the years and the view could have been much different back when the picture was taken, as Lackland has changed a great deal. It's officially not even Lackland AFB now - It's Joint Base - Lackland, as all of the San Antonio bases have been consolidated under BRAC - Lackland, Randolph, Fort Sam Houston, and Camp Bullis. Brooks AFB and Kelly AFB no longer exist as military facilities.

You really know how to make an old Chief cry, don't ya.....

I could be wrong, but I think only the initial order of 5000 Model 15's were roll stamped on the left side of the frame. Many of my duty stations had 15's that were not stamped. Most of the ones in SEA, though were.

And you are so right about how things have changed there. I was back there in '81 and many of the static displays were moved..or gone. Gad, I went through basic in the old WWII barracks section. They had so many trainees that they formed basic flights with overflow and had 1 TI and assistant to 3 of the old barracks.

The main gate at Kelly was a busy place back then. You saluted so much that your arm wanted to fall off.

Welcome to the ranks of the brotherhood here.

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Take your time..quickly.

I think there is only one of the old barracks buildings remaining there, preserved for historical purposes. There was a big demolition project which eliminated many of the WWII-era buildings in the early and mid-1990s. The Annex has really been built up a lot, with an urban training area right inside the gate, plus a MOUT complex at Camp Bullis (not too far from the SF Academy). I'm not too up-to-date as to current Lackland activities, and haven't even been on-base for the last three years. I don't know if the SF museum is still there, I was in it only one time.

My US marked M-15 was issued to a General officer. He lives in my general vicinity and he was allowed to keep his pistol when he retired. I bought my pistol from a fellow collecter that bought it from his son and had it documented.

SWCA 892

My brother was a USAF AP/SP in the early 70's. He has repeatedly told me that at one duty station he carried a Model 14, 4 inch. Being a former USAF Supply Officer (67-71) I have doubted him upon occasion...but he knows his firearms, so he must have carried one of these. He did shoot on the pistol team in Europe, so who knows what transpired. I do know that I was unable to purchase my civilian Model 15 until early 1971 due to a shortage of Model 15's. And quite honestly, the vast majority of Model 15's we had in SEA were not "collector quality".

Did any of you see any M-15's that DID NOT have the target hammer and trigger?

As a matter of fact...yes. Several over my career.

There were several in the armory at Bldg 308 at Griffiss AFB,NY.(416th SPS/LE) We also had DOD Police on that base. That was a screaming PITA.

And here is another question....

I just can't recall if all of the trigger stops were removed on the 15's or not. I don't believe any of the ones I carried had them. Anyone know for sure?

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Take your time..quickly.

Oldafsp; when were you at Griffiss? I was in the 416SPS from 1987 to 1991. Spent some time guarding the NESOCC, with an M15 on my hip. None of the M15s I encountered had a trigger stop.

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Tom
"Panem et Circenses"

Tom,

I was there from 1973-1975. I held dual AFSC's (812/811). Did some time at the WSA there and under the 49th FIS at the alert pods by Base Ops.

Loved the F-106's...they were awesome!

Found this patch on Ebay a while back and got 2 of them. One is on my MA-1 jacket that I got and my wife is putting together with unit patches from all the places I was stationed over the years.

Any of you crewdogs and sky cops want a commerative patch from a decommissioned base you were at this guy makes a wonderful patch. He is a retired AF ATC and a great guy.

USAF BASE PATCHES, SHIPS items in GI PATCHES 4 ALL store on eBay!

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Take your time..quickly.

This has been a very enjoyable thread to read, thanks to the original poster for starting it and to all those who made contributions with their personal histories and recollections. Great Post!

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Sam
S&WHF 333 S&WCA 2198

oldafsp, Thanks for the link for the base patches, I'm getting my list together to order a few. I just missed you at Griffiss AFB. I was there with OSI Dist 22 from Jul 71-Oct 72 when I PCS'd overseas. I ran a couple of cases with an SP Civilian Investigator, last name of Smith. He was an old timer and he 'learned me a couple of things' They had 166 inches of snow the winter I was there and it wasn't even close to the record. Keep shootin' and check 6

I'll jump into this thread......I graduated the SP Academy in 78. They engraved our SSN onto the back of the badge. Also told us it was a controlled item and we would be Art. 15 if misused.

Only the LE troops fired the M-15 at Tech School. I didn't put my hands on one until I got to Clark AB. I remember them not being real accurate with PGU rounds, but it was "cool" carry one.

Crossed trained as a TAC-P in 82 and got lots of time with the M-15. Then M9's in 85.

Retired in 2008 and can still shoot the M9 better than anything else.

I am glad this thread was resurrected, some great info. I qualified on the M16 rifle and M15 revolver several times in my USAF years.

I wanted to comment on the origin of M15's in civilian hands. It seems to be "accepted" among collectors that there have been no surplus sales of any handguns since the 60's, but I can tell you for a fact that this prohibition was not followed uniformly by the services. In the early 80's, a fairly large number of USAF surplus revolvers were sold by Warner-Robbins Air Logistics Center in Georgia. I do not know the exact date, but I did buy two like new S&W Victory models from an FFL dealer who had about two dozen Victory Models for sale from that surplus lot. He told me he had a few Model 15's as well, but they had sold out within days of him offering them for sale. He had obtained them from a distributor that had bid and won the entire lot sold by the USAF. He had some copies of release paperwork from the distributor, but at that time I was not a "collector" so to speak, I just liked the nice looking Victory models he had. The Victory's did not carry USAF markings, one I bought was US Navy marked on the top strap, the other a standard US Property marked. I really wish I had found him before the M15's had sold out.

Anyway, there are perfectly legal ex-USAF revolvers out there.

I always removed every one I came across as a CATM instructor....training weapons as well as in use and stored weapons that we inspected. IIRC, we were advised to do that as students in the CATM tech school at Lackland which I attended in 1983. I still take them out of my own guns if they have them.

I wouldn't be too hard on Texas Star because what he told you could be true. In my early Air Force days I heard of many guns being stolen and the Feds even busted a local gun shop for buying stolen guns from base airman back then. Concerning statue of limitations, this is the Federal Government we are talking about, not state government, so sending you to jail for having stolen military firearms is up to district Federal Law Establishment. You really don't have to worry unless one day the BATF raids you house or picks up up for something and after the take your guns and run them, they find out you have stolen military firearms. I also doubt that any lost military firearms are any stolen firearms list, just because of the bad PR it would be for the Service.

BTW while I was in Korea attached to an Army unit, all of our pistols turned up missing from the Army Armory and the Army didn't care, because they weren't theirs, and nothing was ever done. So it is very possible that many ex-military weapons out there were taken without permission. Unless you have the actual transfer paperwork, like I have for a 1903A3, you can never be sure. So I think Texas Star's warning to you was just good advice and I would thank him for it.

Anyone else do AFR time as an IMA? I got into the program with the SP squadron at Lowry AFB in 1986. They accepted my civilian police academy training and gave me my old Army rank of E-5. There were around 24 of us in the program, almost all were civilian cops as well. We did a lot of training for the regular AF people. (I did DUI classes since I was an SFST instructor on the civilian job.) When Lowry closed, I picked up a slot at Travis AFB and made E-6. Did 2 years in the program after that and gave up the reserves; my city job was just taking too much time, and there weren't any good places to do reserve time near Denver. I did get to go to Lackland, though - Lowry sent me to the LE Supv course back in 1988. That was a hoot, and I got to see the Northern Lights around 5AM on the drive back home. Several of my regular colleagues got on my dept when they got out. A good group of cops IMO.

I would like to hear any information from the old timers on this thread concerning the annual Rifle & Pistol matches that involved active Security Police personnel back in the day. A little history or personal experience would be great to hear. For me, I competed and won a slot as a "first termer" on the 3700 SPS (Lackland base police) team in the summer of 1980. I shot in the ATC matches that fall, but did not make the cut to be on the ATC team. I remember that we shot with target grade model 15's with Winchester wad cutters, and the course of fire was using B-27 targets. Of course, we also shot the M-16 as well. I think that 1980 was the last year that it was a pure "shooting match". Later it was changed to "Peacekeeper Challenge", which did not interest me anymore. Anyway, got a palace chase in 1982, did a year in Mass Air National Guard, then got out.

Oldafsp; The F106s were still on alert when I got there in 87. They were there for my first couple of years on the base. Those 106s were impressive old school interceptors, from my perspective anyways. All the Model 15s I qualified with were very accurate, unless the rear sight base got loose. If one started shooting bad groups the CATM guy would take a screwdriver to it, and the groups would tighten up again.

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Tom
"Panem et Circenses"

It doesn't have the USAF stamp, but the NIB 15-4 TTTH I just picked up will hold me. That in turn required me to pick up a (repro) SP badge. No issue number and it has pins and clasps on the back--but it is pretty. Put it in the blue box and will probably put a copy of my DD-214 in there too.

This must be the week for reminiscing. The current Blue Press magazine has an article by Barrett Tillman, "Gifts That Keep Giving" about experienced planes and weapons still in use today.

In case you wonder which issue it is, look for Kayla in cutoffs. With a S&W wheel gun in her hand.

Time to bring this thread back to life again...

From my friends at the Security Forces Foundation.

Female SP/LE's qualifying on the Model 15 at Camp Bullis, 1971.

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Take your time..quickly.

They were probably worried he'd convert it to a machinegun.

ECS

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CPT, Armor (Ret)
Luke 22:36

Great photo. Notice the lack of eye and ear (maybe) protection!

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-jwk-
US Army '72-'95

McCoy AFB, Air Police 1963-1967. There were no women in the Air Police and very few in the USAF. The base where I was stationed was closed in 1974.

Great Photo. My unit, the 507th TAC Con Gp at Shaw AFB in South Carolina, had a Detachment at McCoy. So I would go TDY to McCoy in 67/68 on "inspections". Its hard for people to believe that Orlando was a sleepy "orange grove" town in the mid 60's.
Even some experienced airline folks don't know the origin of Orlando's airport code "MCO" from its McCoy heritage.

This thread takes me back to my VN days. We were an Army Aviation outfit flying JOV1A Mohawks. We were colocated with the USAF at Ubon Thailand. We were issued M10 round butts with either the heavy barrel or (my case) pencil barrel. My revolver was marked on the backstrap "MPDC". I later learned that the Army had grabbed a shipment of revolvers slated for the DC Metro Police claiming they needed them more urgently. All of the USAF guys were packing the M15s, with flight crews and some others(SP Officers) in 2" barrels. The AF armorer was a great guy and did action jobs on their revolvers, and also did one on my M10. Absolutely the slickest S&W action ever, and I have had lots of Smiths since then.
Us Army types were in heaven, the AF lived and ate better than any of us ever dreamed of. The Army Aviators in country lived in tents that were regularly attacked with rockets and mortars. We shared air conditioned trailers 2 men per. Biggest problem was getting enough steaks to BBQ every night. I still have the holster the AF gave me-we packed our weapons in shoulder holsters while aviating, but around the base belt holsters were more comfortable, and of course the M10s fit the M15 holsters exactly. Without confessing anything, I do believe I could lay my hands on that M10 very quickly if I needed to today. I do wish I could have wound up with one of those M15s though........

I too was an Air Force SP stationed at Griffiss AFB from 1986-1992.

I was in the active duty Air Force as an Aircraft Armament Systems Specialist (AFSC 46270) assigned to an Aerospace Rescue Recovery Squadron in Korea from September 1983 to September 1984.

Although we normally worked on aircraft mounted weapons, i.e. M61A1, 20mm Vulcan Gatling guns mounted in fighter aircraft, we only had helicopters that used M60D 7.62mm machine guns.

Everybody in the shop, being gun enthusiasts themselves, volunteered to take on the additional duty of maintaining the aircrews and Para rescue small arms weapons. These included the M-15 snub noses that these folks carried.

In hindsight, I wished I had noticed the USAF marking on these guns. About a month after my arrival, the M-15's were going to be turned in to Supply and the aircrews/PJ's were issued WW-II era M1911's (Colts, Ithaca's, and Remington's).

We in the Gun Shop asked that the M-15's be transferred to us as we were required to be armed when transferring the aircraft M60's from the Security Police Armory out to the helicopter(s). So, they became our side arms. It beat carrying an M16 or an M4 around all day!

I never was a revolver guy but wanted one of these for my collection for nostalgia reasons. These were issued to aircrew. Flew F-4s out of Ubon. I'd been looking for one for quite a while but stumbled across the S&W Collectors at NRA in Houston. The guy in the booth said he had a couple and would sell me one. Gun was pristine condition. We were issued gun cards when we arrived to Ubon. The guns were stored in the gun room. When we went to fly a mission, we'd stop by the gun room on he way to the flight line. We'd exchange our gun card for the gun, put it in the holster, fly the mission, and return it to the gun room after the mission. I figure a lot of them were hardly ever fired. The only thing is that I can't find USAF anywhere on the gun. It may not have been an Air Force gun but that isn't a show stopper for me. If someone could post a picture showing where USAF is stamped, I'd appreciate it.
A quick comment on the picture from the gate at Stategic Air Command HQ from a fighter guy. The SAC motto says, "Peace is Our Profession". We'd add, "war is just a hobby"

Disregard my request for a picture. I see it on the first picture in this thread. Too many G's over too many years.

Thought I would share a picture of me at RAF Alconbury (1976)in the armory. I wonder where all these model 15's are now. The tags represent the guys on post-those are weapons cards.
(the photo and me are both old and faded)

Attached Images

	mod15 pic 001.jpg (89.8 KB, 182 views)
	aguns 001.jpg (69.0 KB, 136 views)

My first experience with Air Force cops was as a young Marine stationed in Naples, Italy in the late 80s and early 90s. We had a couple posts to guard over at AFSouth and when we would drive through the gates, that base was guarded by Italian Caribenari and AF cops. I noticed one AF cop as we drove by that had a Ruger six series revolver in his holster. I can't remember if it was a Service-Six, Security-Six or what not but I do remember the distinctive cylinder release of a Ruger. I never knew Ruger had a military contract which is why I remember that really standing out in my mind.
Fast forward a little over a decade and now I found myself in the USAF reserves as a CATM instructor. Our CATM shop at Seymour-Johnson AFB in 2007-2008 was top to bottom reservists (and having the highest qual rate in ACC, I think we knew what the hell we were doing) but the Chief looked at the manning document and figured we had to have active duty bodies in the CATM shop so being the IMA, I was the first one to go to flight for 3 months then off to the cop armory for another 3 months before I deployed to Afghanistan. Yeah, I was bitter about that whole ordeal but the silver lining to that cloud was that the guy that took my CATM slot a few years later was busted for stealing and selling ammo and weapon parts on the internet! Hey, they wanted him, they got him! LOL But I digress.
Anyways, in the cop armory, we had a couple obsolete weapons to include an M-79 bloop gun and an M-15 revolver. The M-15 never seen the light of day really since the only think it was used for was for K9 to use blanks with while working with the dogs. I don't remember the USAF stamp on it anywhere but I do remember the blue finish, broken rear sight and generally beat to hell condition. I still have a couple other revolvers that rate higher on my want to get list but getting an M-15 is also on that list as well. Not as high as some of my other wants, but still on a short list.

I have a model 15 made in 1970 with target hammer and target trigger. It does not have any Air Force markings on it but is there any chance it would have any connection with the Air Force since it has the TT and TH?

Now that photo brings back a lot memories. When we came back state side from Ramey AFB, it was to McCoy AFB in 1970. My dad retired with his 20 years there. He was a Small Arms Instructor. Thanks for sharing!

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2 Timothy 1:7

REALLY EASY TO CHECK IF ITS STOLEN U.S. PROPERTY? id toss that sucker fast if it was local pd can check vs getting in tons of hot water, same said for U.S. property marked colt 45

My dad was in the Air Force from 1952 - 1972. He worked in the air to air missile field from the early 60's til retirement. In 1967 we were station in Goose Bay Labrador, where my dad was a senior master sergeant with nuclear missiles under his control. He was issued a S&W snub nose .357. He cant remember what model it was, and I was only 4 and don't remember it. He said almost no one could qualify with the snubby at the required range, and that frequently whoever was running the qualifications would walk up to the target and poke holes with a pencil so they would qualify. Any ideas what model of .357 this might have been?