Market Check on USAF Model 15

[rover1992]

Hello, I saw a mod. 15 recently that was marked usaf on frame. It also has factory letter confirming the gun. Gun is about 75/80 percent finish. Does anyone have any idea of value? He had it listed for $1800.00 This is a grail gun for me. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I was unable to take a pic.

[CH4]

Originally Posted by rover1992

Hello, I saw a mod. 15 recently that was marked usaf on frame. It also has factory letter confirming the gun. Gun is about 75/80 percent finish. Does anyone have any idea of value? He had it listed for $1800.00 This is a grail gun for me. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I was unable to take a pic.

For me it’s an $800 gun, maybe $1000 if I couldn’t live without it.
I carried one as an USAF police officer.

[sigp220.45]

I’d say $1800 for a grail gun that you’ll probably never see again is a pretty good deal.

[Frailer]

Originally Posted by sigp220.45

I’d say $1800 for a grail gun that you’ll probably never see again is a pretty good deal.

There is some wisdom there.

If something is so hard-to-find and desirable to me that I would refer to it as a “grail” then “market value” isn’t really relevant.

I’ve knowingly “overpaid” for hard-to-find items I *really* wanted more than once. I can’t think of a single time when I regretted it.

On the other hand, I can recall several “bargains” that were a waste of money.

[jpage]

Last two on GB hammered for $1776 and $2200 IIRC. Don't recall the condition.

[murphydog]

I have not tracked prices on these but the asking figure seems high for the stated condition. So I think buying it is a question only you can answer - will you be happy with it or look to upgrade? If the latter you may want to wait until your "forever gun" comes up for sale, and save your pennies while waiting. Good luck in your decision.

[Breakaway500]

Would not sell mine for any price as my Dad carried it in Vietnam.

I learned to shoot “a real handgun” with it in my teens, and is the reason I prefer S&W revolvers (and the 3Ts.). Didn’t know it was “collectible” till I joined this forum and started learning about such things. It is still my high benchmark when comparing handguns.

Combat Masterpiece is a fitting name.

[CajunBass]

When was the last time you saw one for less?

When do you next expect to see one like it for sale even. We won't even talk about the price for now.

[luvsmiths]

Wrong grips. Wrong box. ( below RIA gun) Cowens also had one go for 6500 about 15 years ago. Lesser condition than this one IIRC.

U.S. Air Force Smith & Wesson Model 15-2 K-38 Combat Masterpiece | Rock Island Auction

1800 for what you describe is well worth it as long as it letters. How many how you seen to compare?

Exactly.

[MelvinWalker]

Originally Posted by Breakaway500

Would not sell mine for any price as my Dad carried it in Vietnam.

Too cool....I have my Dad's Garand that he bought in 1968 that I'm going to sell and plus I am not overall enamored with M1 Garands, (plus no kids....let it go).

If my dad had been Air Police in Vietnam and I had his carry Smith, no WAY I'd get rid of it.

Nice, nice firearm you have there.

[Slufstuff]

Originally Posted by CajunBass

When was the last time you saw one for less?

When do you next expect to see one like it for sale even. We won't even talk about the price for now.

I collect USAF handguns, unless it is just absurdly high, price is not usually my biggest concern. The hard part is finding examples for sale. It took me years to locate a USAF Model 56 for sale at a non-astronomical price.

So, to OPs question, I would pay $1,800 if the condition was acceptable to me. I am sure some guys here would shake their heads at my purchase price on a few of my US military handguns, but it really does come down to either overpay a little today, or possibly wait a couple of years before you see another one for sale.

[Slufstuff]

Originally Posted by Frailer

I’ve knowingly “overpaid” for hard-to-find items I *really* wanted more than once. I can’t think of a single time when I regretted it.

Exactly. This is the situation you face when collecting niche items like USAF issued handguns. If you pass one up you need, you might never see it again, or maybe not for a few years anyway.

[lihpster]

Like has been said, your need/want is going to decide the price you're willing to pay. I have no itching need for one so I wouldn't pay the asking price, but I ain't you. I would say, especially if you're not looking at it as an investment, which you shouldn't, what we would pay shouldn't concern you. What do you feel comfortable paying? Rarity and desire will drive that up.
Good luck in whatever you decide.

[45NUTT]

Go back and bring it home. It's calling your name and you know it.

[SSGRock]

The USAF Model 15-2 that I have cost me $1676.67 in November 2022. It did come with a letter from Smith & Wesson Historical Foundation.

[Bald1]

Where is the gun for sale? Online or locally? Individual or retail store? These things can affect your ability to haggle a little.

[DWalt]

And I think of those I demilled.

[burneyr]

My philosophy is to buy if it's something I need or want for my collection. Then, if I happen upon a better condition example down the road to buy it and sell the other. Just keep trading up so to speak.

Get the bird in the hand then you can sneak up on the one in the bush.

[carrdon]

During my time in as an officer, never came across many in very good shape. Remember parts falling off one during annual qualification in Panama. Price seems high for what it is. You can usually buy a great N frame for alot less.

[luvsmiths]

Originally Posted by carrdon

During my time in as an officer, never came across many in very good shape. Remember parts falling off one during annual qualification in Panama. Price seems high for what it is. You can usually buy a great N frame for alot less.

So thats your ONE post.

"Parts falling off"? Seriously?

as the kids say:
smh

[old bear]

Originally Posted by rover1992

Hello, I saw a mod. 15 recently that was marked usaf on frame. It also has factory letter confirming the gun. Gun is about 75/80 percent finish. Does anyone have any idea of value? He had it listed for $1800.00 This is a grail gun for me. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I was unable to take a pic.

Rover if it's a grail gun ( I can't tell you or anyone how much I hate that term) All I can say is if you really want it and can afford it, buy it, and I hope you really enjoy having it.
old bear

[TJm15.38]

Originally Posted by carrdon

During my time in as an officer, never came across many in very good shape. Remember parts falling off one during annual qualification in Panama. Price seems high for what it is. You can usually buy a great N frame for alot less.

I'll second that. I was in USAF when we switched from S&W Model 15 to Beretta M9. In the last few years before the change, those range guns used for qualification were literally beat up. I thought they all went to Warner Robbins, GA to be destroyed, but some got in the civilian market and people are paying premium prices for them. Not for me.

[Rev 19:11]

Originally Posted by CH4

For me it’s an $800 gun, maybe $1000 if I couldn’t live without it.
I carried one as an USAF police officer.

I did as well. McClellan, Kunsan, George. I'd like one but not for $1,800.

[max503]

My question is: Is it the USAF lettering that dictates the price?

[kwill1911]

Of course. Guns with military provenance always bring a premium.

[oneeyedpete]

Why are these so rare? If they were standard issue for the Air Force MPs, I would think there are quite a few out there. Please educate me on these!

[jpage]

.Gov destroyed most, with the gradual introduction of the M9.

[kwill1911]

Yup. The USAF acquired thousands of S&W revolvers and crushed or torched almost all of them when they were declared obsolete.

[oneeyedpete]

Wow! Imagine what they could have saved with the CMP! Look at what beat up moldy old 1911 go for on CMP auctions these days!

[murphydog]

The survivors I've seen were presumably "liberated" from government inventory, but I've also read that some were transferred to US police and sheriff's departments.

[jpage]

Originally Posted by murphydog

The survivors I've seen were presumably "liberated" from government inventory, but I've also read that some were transferred to US police and sheriff's departments.

Mississippi DFG used them

[oldcorps76]

I packed one of these with a 2" barrel when I was a Strategic Air Command Minuteman II ICBM combat crew member at Whiteman AFB, MO, 1977-1982. Some HQ yahoo mandated we load with only 5 rounds. I don't think any of them were ever fired, just rotated and cleaned occasionally. Would love one just for the "good" memories of events like the times (more than one) we got emergency orders to open the Safe - yes, that one - insert the launch keys, strap into our chairs, and wait for the next order...which thankfully was "stand down..." otherwise, we likely would not be here.....

[kwill1911]

Originally Posted by oldcorps76

I packed one of these with a 2" barrel when I was a Strategic Air Command Minuteman II ICBM combat crew member at Whiteman AFB, MO, 1977-1982. Some HQ yahoo mandated we load with only 5 rounds. I don't think any of them were ever fired, just rotated and cleaned occasionally. Would love one just for the "good" memories of events like the times (more than one) we got emergency orders to open the Safe - yes, that one - insert the launch keys, strap into our chairs, and wait for the next order...which thankfully was "stand down..."

Could it have actually been a Model 56, which is quite similar? The USAF bought a lot of them but did not buy any Model 15s with a 2-inch barrel.

[oldcorps76]

My CMP 1911 is a mixmaster but shoots right nice. The last -15's I used were pretty beat up after likely +25 years of service....

[oldcorps76]

Model 56 - interesting, very well could have been. I never opened one up to look at the yoke to see if there was a model number - we were not allowed to remove them from the holsters, believe it or not.

[sigp220.45]

I don’t think I ever was issued a raggedy Model 15 - mine were always in pretty good shape. I will admit to being happy to get that NIB M9 though.

I fought a mostly losing battle with the armory to put Pachmayr Presentations on my issued M-15. I’d put ‘em on, they’d take ‘em off, saying only wooden S&W grips were authorized. I put some factory targets on mine and they just gave up.

[PAULEM]

Originally Posted by rover1992

Hello, I saw a mod. 15 recently that was marked usaf on frame. It also has factory letter confirming the gun. Gun is about 75/80 percent finish. Does anyone have any idea of value? He had it listed for $1800.00 This is a grail gun for me. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I was unable to take a pic.

I recall from the 60's when I was in the Air Force, that our Air Police (as they were then called) carried the Smith 15. Good gun. I owned one, let it get away, but still have my 19. The price on this one seems a bit steep. Not sure why it's set there. Good luck.

[Bald1]

Originally Posted by old bear

Rover if it's a grail gun ( I can't tell you or anyone how much I hate that term) All I can say is if you really want it and can afford it, buy it, and I hope you really enjoy having it.
old bear

Ok I’ll bite. Why do you hate the term? Is it the term itself? Maybe a different term like bucket list gun? Seems like a useful term.

[murphydog]

The OP hasn't been back since posting. Maybe he is raiding his piggy banks?

[austintexas]

Last gunshow I paid too much for a pre M-19. It wasn't a grail gun but It was one I've kinda been looking for. Pre 19s were only made for 2 years, '55-'56. I kinda wanted one, been looking for several years, not too hard but looking. Walked up on this one, a '56 model year, I had the funds and I bought it. I picked it up over 2 others I was looking at, a 1942 Garand, and a nice nickel 4" 44 magnum. I just rationalized there were more '42 Garands and nickel 44 magnums out there than pre 19s.
SWCA 892

[Frailer]

Originally Posted by Bald1

Ok I’ll bite. Why do you hate the term? Is it the term itself? Maybe a different term like bucket list gun? Seems like a useful term.

As someone who also has a strong dislike for the term, I’ll be happy to share my reasoning.

For *me* “grail” refers to a singular object that requires research, effort, and time to acquire. It also implies that actually finding this item is aspirational; it might not ever be found at all. For *me* anything that could be acquired without arduous effort by simply being willing to spend money does not qualify.

In current parlance “grail” is often used to refer to an item that the potential purchaser wants intensely. It has even been diluted to mean—for some—something they think is really “cool.”

All that said, I understand words mean different things to different people, so I’m not going to get my knickers in a bunch. Nevertheless, it’s not a term you’ll find me using.

[luvsmiths]

Originally Posted by Bald1

Ok I’ll bite. Why do you hate the term? Is it the term itself? Maybe a different term like bucket list gun? Seems like a useful term.

Word fits perfectly- I like it!


something that people want and are looking for but that is difficult to find or get:
"He has searched for his Grail of a happy family life and has finally found it".
"Climbing the mountain is considered to be one of the grails for ambitious mountaineers".

Other forms: grails
"A grail is some valuable thing you search for or pursue. A golfer's holy grail might be a hole in one".


Now--- Without further interruption, back to the regularly scheduled Smith and Wesson Model 15 USAF Grail gun thread.

[MelvinWalker]

Originally Posted by Frailer

As someone who also has a strong dislike for the term, I’ll be happy to share my reasoning.

For *me* “grail” refers to a singular object that requires research, effort, and time to acquire. It also implies that actually finding this item is aspirational; it might not ever be found at all. For *me* anything that could be acquired without arduous effort by simply being willing to spend money does not qualify.

In current parlance “grail” is often used to refer to an item that the potential purchaser wants intensely. It has even been diluted to mean—for some—something they think is really “cool.”

All that said, I understand words mean different things to different people, so I’m not going to get my knickers in a bunch. Nevertheless, it’s not a term you’ll find me using.

I tend to agree with this....Much of this comes from the actual amount of money we have to spend on a particular gun.

An example.....If I were a newlywed 25 year old, a "grail gun" might be something like this Model 15 USAF....But anyone with real money could hire an agent to find one and have it in two weeks.

A "holy grail" gun for almost anyone would be something like a Himmler owned PPK or a Pappy Boyington Victory Model, or somesuch. Those are simply unobtainable because there aren't enough around to satisfy collector wants and needs.

Everything else, if you have enough money you can find and buy it..

[CH4]

Originally Posted by MelvinWalker

I tend to agree with this....Much of this comes from the actual amount of money we have to spend on a particular gun.

An example.....If I were a newlywed 25 year old, a "grail gun" might be something like this Model 15 USAF....But anyone with real money could hire an agent to find one and have it in two weeks.

A "holy grail gun”…

ARTHUR: Go and tell your master that we have been charged by God with a sacred quest. If he will give us food and shelter for the night, he can join us in our quest for the Holy Grail Gun.

FRENCH GUARD: Well, I'll ask him, but I don't think he'll be very keen. Uh, he's already got one, you see.

[Bald1]

To me a grail gun is simply one that you’ve always wanted, but for some reason never obtained. Maybe it’s money, maybe it was hard to locate, whatever. I recently purchased a grail gun. A 3” 629 Classic Hunter. I always wanted one but could never bring myself to write that check. Of course I could have written the check. I just didn’t till recently. It was a retirement present to myself.

[Rev 19:11]

Originally Posted by sigp220.45

I don’t think I ever was issued a raggedy Model 15 - mine were always in pretty good shape. I will admit to being happy to get that NIB M9 though.

I fought a mostly losing battle with the armory to put Pachmayr Presentations on my issued M-15. I’d put ‘em on, they’d take ‘em off, saying only wooden S&W grips were authorized. I put some factory targets on mine and they just gave up.

I was doing the same.

[arjay]

Buy it unless you’re young and have years to wait for another..

[CH4]

Originally Posted by Rev 19:11

I did as well. McClellan, Kunsan, George. I'd like one but not for $1,800.

Cool! I was at Clark. Since it was a TAC base, I attended ABGD at Camp Bullis. Fun times. Got to play with the good stuff other than the M15. The M9 was in the testing process.

[MajorD]

From what I can figure there were 2 ways primarily that USAF model 15’s made it to the civilian market:
1) at one time, officers could purchase an issue gun from the government. Long before the model 15 era, it was at any officer rank. By the 60,s it would I believe be limited to generals.
2) when the 15’s were declared obsolete or surplus, police agencies could acquire them for department use for free. Part of the deal was supposed to be they would be returned to the feds when they were no longer needed. However as was mentioned sometimes these guns changed hands in police service with multiple agencies involved, and the idea of returning to the feds got lost in the shuffle. Also let’s say a department had 300 15’s, 250 were regular commercial guns and 50 were old Air Force guns, and when they transitioned to new guns the old 15’s were sold as a lot, again ignoring the return to the feds requirement

Also as mentioned, sadly when these were declared obsolete ( with the mass transition to 9mm pistols) they were simply destroyed- cut up crushed or melted

[Dirtman]

Originally Posted by MelvinWalker

Too cool....I have my Dad's Garand that he bought in 1968 that I'm going to sell and plus I am not overall enamored with M1 Garands, (plus no kids....let it go).

If my dad had been Air Police in Vietnam and I had his carry Smith, no WAY I'd get rid of it.

Nice, nice firearm you have there.

I wish I could have my old M1 Garand from my Army days. I bet it's still floating around somewhere.