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Old 09-26-2009, 05:23 PM
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Default LEO carrying a 686 Plus

My wife & I were at the roll call for a multi-agency DUI checkpoint last night & I told our friend who is a DUI specialist for the county department that the forum would want the details on his revolver.The county dept. allows revolver carry although I see very few-the Block & it's spawn are omnipresent.His is a 686 Plus-he explained that his father taught him to shoot with a revolver & he didn't see any reason to change.He then opened his shirt & showed me a model 60 tucked in a holster affixed to his body armor.Well armed & well prepared.
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Old 09-26-2009, 06:22 PM
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Way cool, I wish more agencies would allow revolver carry. What are they going to say, That thing holds too many rounds? Or that thing is to controversial...very cool to see more of us out there with revolvers.
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Old 09-26-2009, 06:34 PM
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Nothing new to me been carrying a 686 and 642. Used to be a M19 and m-38. Whats not to like??? Did the 1911 and High-power thing last 1/4 of the last century. Glad I got away from the dread full bottom feeders.
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Old 09-26-2009, 07:10 PM
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Thanks so much for relating that heart warming story!
There were only 2 LEO's (late 80's) in the mid sized city department I worked support for that carried wheel guns. One was the K-9 officer, (686) the other was by then a Captain and soon to become Chief (Mod.25 .45ACP). I recall wonderful people, from a wonderful time due to your story, thanks!
The outgoing Chief and Deputy Chief were instrumental in going to the 1911' for uniformed rank and file. It actually was one of the first department's in the area to go with the 1911'. The "Block" had just begun it's inroads. Thanks again!
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Old 09-26-2009, 07:47 PM
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Good to see a few LEOs still carrying wheelguns. My S.O.
still allows revolver carry. I carry a Model 28 Highway
Patrolman 357 in El Paso Leather and a Model 36.
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Old 09-26-2009, 08:15 PM
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Been a LEO for forty four years. My agency issued revolvers until 1990, then we went with the 4046. Now we are using the M&P 40.However my BUG has always been a model 37 or model 38 and will always be.
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Old 09-26-2009, 08:37 PM
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I wish we could carry revolvers as duty guns. We have a uniform policy for the purpose of insurance. But the agency soes allow us to carry a back-up/ alternate duty gun ...so I carry 2 extra guns on duty both revolvers.
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Old 09-26-2009, 10:01 PM
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Good to see some LEOs carrying revolvers as their primaries. At my last agency from 05-06 I carried a 4" 610 in a Bladetech holster. I could carry 4 moonclips in a HKS double speedloader case.
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Old 09-27-2009, 10:20 AM
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Hi Guys.I am not a LEO,just a humble nurse who loves to shoot.I became a NRA Certified RSO and CFI last year and got my first bottom feeder after 20 + Years of Double Action Revolver Shooting to become totally comfortable with pistol instruction.My instructor was a LEO and LEO Instructor who carried a model 64 and a Detective Special as a BUG.He always rammed the point home that you know exactly where each round fired was going because a miss could kill a little kid or other innocent person.He also said that once you can fire a double action revolver well you can pick up any gun and shoot it well.As I have seen departments switch to semi-autos I also have seen markmanship give way to capacity.I smile every time I see a LEO carrying a wheelgun because rest assured he/she knows how to use it and if God Forbid he/she has to shoot the perp will go down without multiple shots being fired.My instructor recently passed from Pancreatic Cancer and when I teach a class his Detective Special is proudly on my hip.May God Bless all of you in the discharge of your duties........Mike
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Old 09-27-2009, 01:40 PM
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I do a lot of flying out of Philadelphia International and it helps pass the time to look at the weapons on the Philly Airport Police (all of whom are Philadelphia cops, even though half of the airport is in the suburbs). What is noticeable is that the older members and the senior cops (in White not Blue shirts) are usually wearing revolvers, the younger ones, a variety of tupperware. Dave_n
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Old 09-27-2009, 06:10 PM
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I traveled to Pittsburgh this last July for some work related training. We had a 90 minute layover in Chicago. I was trying to find the smoking area and asked a cop on the escalator for directions. He told me that he was on his way to that very place and to follow him. He was wearing a huge revolver and I asked him about it. He told me he was a 30 yr veteran of the Chicago PD and the old guy's got to carry revolvers. He then proceeds to pull it out of his holster and show it to me in the elavator. It must have been at least a six inch barrel because it seemed like it just kept coming out of his holster. He complained about only being able to carry "special" ammo and not the "magnum" ammo. This was before I became aware of S&W revolver model numbers. I seem to recollect he called it a 19 (.357), but I swear he he said it was a .44. Anyway since that meeting I have bought or traded for a 586 6", a 686 3" and recently a 29 6.5". Does anyone know what Chicago PD carried for sure?
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Old 09-27-2009, 10:40 PM
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My department is a Glock issuing department, but with that said, I am currently carrying a S&W 681 law enforcement trade in I picked up 22 months ago as my off duty carry. I also carry two speed loaders. I have not been successful trying to convince the powers that be to allow me to carry my 681 on duty.
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Old 09-27-2009, 11:53 PM
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686+ carrys 7 shots and HKS Speedloaders are the 587s incase you need that info. I have 3 686+s one,in 4 inch,3 inch,and 2.5 inch barrels w/adjust sights. rz625-8 I enjoy my 686s just as I do my ruger revolvers.
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Old 09-28-2009, 12:22 AM
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I'm not a LEO either, but I almost bought a Block the other day. Then I came to my senses when I saw a nickel model 29 and just about tripped at the sight of it. Every time I'm at the range and I hear somebody rapid firing their Block, I wonder if high capacity is such a good thing? Makes a lot of noise, but that's about all they accomplish over me with a five or 6 shot revolver. I thought it was a status symbol as you move up in a police dept to drop down to a 5 shot revolver? Isn't it always the captains and whatnot who have the nickel plated snubs? Or maybe I've been watching too much TV.

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Old 09-28-2009, 03:17 PM
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from 75-95 we were issued revolvers...i carried a colt trooper/a model 10/model 15/ruger security six...then off we went to the 92d beretta (auto) i certainly liked the revolvers better
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Old 11-14-2012, 03:15 PM
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All uniformed officers that work for my agency at my post carry issued Glock 22s except me. I carry an issued S&W Model 686-6 with Speer 135 grain Gold Dot .357 Magnum ammo (a recent change from the old standby 1450 fps Remington 125 grain SJHP .357 Magnum ammo) with four speedloaders. I carry a S&W Model 37 in my pocket, too. I'm CLEET-certified to carry a revolver, so they had to issue one to me or pay for the semiautomatic class for me. There was some grumbling about that until I fired 100% during qualifications on the same course that the Glocksters weren't.

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Old 11-14-2012, 07:10 PM
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I'm currently going through the Police Academy for a local agency here in the DFW Metroplex, our policy states that we can carry whatever we qualify with. Out of my 25 person class I'd say 18-19 of them are carrying Glock's of all stripes, 3-4 people are carrying Sig's/XD's, and then there's little ole me with my 686-3.

We haven't been to qualification yet, but some of my classmates and I went shooting last weekend to warm up, and suffice to say they couldn't wrap their minds around how I could reload my 686 faster than most of them could reload their Glock/Sig's. I tried to tell them that's it's all muscle-memory and practice, but I just got dumbfounded looks.

I currently have a Safariland 070 Level III and quad-speedloader pouches which for me works out pretty damn well (although I wish they made Clam-shell holsters for L-frames!). I'll report back when we head to qualifications!
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Old 11-14-2012, 08:55 PM
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I carry a 686 as my duty gun and have posted this picture on here many times. As it has been stated muscle memory is the key for me to reloading the revolver. I have no problem keeping up during qualification with the Glock shooters and I do not have to worry about FTF,FTE or stove pipes. If I have a fail to fire I just pull the trigger again.

Ounce I was walking past a man and young boy and I heard the man say

"That's how you can tell he's a old Cop, He carry's a Revolver."

Another time I was serving some papers and as I was leaving the gentleman asks me what the two little pouches were on my duty belt. I said that they were pouches for my speed loaders. " Oh he said I thought the were for Hand Grenades."


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Old 11-15-2012, 12:40 PM
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I went on the Chicago PD in 1971 and we carried either Colt or S&W revolvers chambered in 38/357 and at that time our duty load was the 158 RNL 38 Special. Years later we went to the truly excellent 158 grn LHP +P 38 Special at which time it became known as the Chicago Police/FBI load. Officers that came on before the adaption of semi auto pistols were allowed to still use their revolvers as duty guns. The new kids referred to us old guys as the "Wheel Police". So by attrition as old timers retire there are fewer and fewer CPD officers seen carrying revolvers, occassionally one can still be spotted.



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Originally Posted by robsonrider View Post
I traveled to Pittsburgh this last July for some work related training. We had a 90 minute layover in Chicago. I was trying to find the smoking area and asked a cop on the escalator for directions. He told me that he was on his way to that very place and to follow him. He was wearing a huge revolver and I asked him about it. He told me he was a 30 yr veteran of the Chicago PD and the old guy's got to carry revolvers. He then proceeds to pull it out of his holster and show it to me in the elavator. It must have been at least a six inch barrel because it seemed like it just kept coming out of his holster. He complained about only being able to carry "special" ammo and not the "magnum" ammo. This was before I became aware of S&W revolver model numbers. I seem to recollect he called it a 19 (.357), but I swear he he said it was a .44. Anyway since that meeting I have bought or traded for a 586 6", a 686 3" and recently a 29 6.5". Does anyone know what Chicago PD carried for sure?
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Old 09-25-2013, 03:13 AM
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When the Model 686 Plus Mountain Gun came out I lamented, "Why in the heck didn't this come out back in the day when I could have carried it!?" My outfit used to allow personal handguns until an ex-NYPD commissioner took command, then we went to Tactical Tupperware. My personal 686 Plus MG shoots great and I would not feel undergunned if I could carry it on duty today, stoked with 125 gr. JHP .357 Magnum loads.
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Old 09-25-2013, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LaVistaBill View Post
When the Model 686 Plus Mountain Gun came out I lamented, "Why in the heck didn't this come out back in the day when I could have carried it!?" My outfit used to allow personal handguns until an ex-NYPD commissioner took command, then we went to Tactical Tupperware. My personal 686 Plus MG shoots great and I would not feel undergunned if I could carry it on duty today, stoked with 125 gr. JHP .357 Magnum loads.
thought about carrying mine as well.....if I was on patrol I would (and would be allowed)...but until I give up swat, it's a semi auto. One day maybe...
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Old 09-25-2013, 09:38 PM
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I've had my 627 Pro on my hip for a few years now. I changed the sights to a 3 dot night sight set up, moonclips, 8 rounds of 125gr 357 magnum, N frame. What else can you ask for?

My PD allows revolvers, but I have to tell you peer pressure is intense. Most cops equate magazine capacity with tactical superiority. I like to sound like and old timer (22 years on the job) and tell them "you'll run out of time, long before you run out of bullets..." Kid
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Old 10-06-2015, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damn Yankee View Post
I carry a 686 as my duty gun and have posted this picture on here many times. As it has been stated muscle memory is the key for me to reloading the revolver. I have no problem keeping up during qualification with the Glock shooters and I do not have to worry about FTF,FTE or stove pipes. If I have a fail to fire I just pull the trigger again.

Ounce I was walking past a man and young boy and I heard the man say

"That's how you can tell he's a old Cop, He carry's a Revolver."

Another time I was serving some papers and as I was leaving the gentleman asks me what the two little pouches were on my duty belt. I said that they were pouches for my speed loaders. " Oh he said I thought the were for Hand Grenades."

Depending on the .357 load you are using they kinda are little hand grenades.
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Old 10-06-2015, 10:49 AM
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The personally owned 686 I carried during my service was the best defensive revolver I've ever owned or shot. After five years of service, my agency went to Sig Sauer for handguns, and we were all for it, since our agency issue Mod. 19's were old and had been passed down in less than perfect condition throughout their long tenure. Besides, it was getting late in the 20th Century, and it was time to upgrade to semi-autos like all the rest of the forward thinking agencies. We immediately noticed a decline in accuracy, although the Sigs were totally reliable and fed and digested just about everything. I learned to become proficient with the Sigs, but after time, that newness wore off. Unfortunately, my agency made a complete conversion with no provision for officers to retain revolvers. Many of us carried a J frame in our vest or in an ankle rig, despite the policy. When I left the service, I rat holed four snubby Mod. 10 revolvers in the armory safe for posterity. They were supposed to be returned to a central armory for further disposition. After learning that half a dozen Mod. 66 revolvers I sent them had been destroyed because the agency had a policy of not selling off agency firearms, I chose to spare the model 10s that fate. Perhaps someday, some younger guy in charge of the armory at my old duty station will get a surprise in cracking open the safe and finding some old wheel guns lying there waiting to be taken to the range.
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Old 10-06-2015, 11:54 AM
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Well, they changed duty ammo on me, and I changed my BUG. My agency now issues Federal 158 grain .357 Magnum HydraShok ammo to me, and I semi-retired the Model 37 in favor of a Model 642-2 that I load with the Speer 135 grain .38 Special +P Short Barrel Gold Dot ammo.
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Old 10-06-2015, 03:37 PM
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I love revolvers, I have a large S&W, Colt, Dan Wesson and a growing Ruger and Rossi collection. But for work, the Smith and Wesson M&P 40 cal. I carry a total of 4 magazines 60 rounds total. I work for the county so backup could be a few minutes are almost an hour away. 15 shots vs 6,7 or 8? Gotta go with 15.

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Old 10-06-2015, 07:53 PM
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I love revolvers, I have a large S&W, Colt, Dan Wesson and a growing Ruger and Rossi collection. But for work, the Smith and Wesson M&P 40 cal. I carry a total of 4 magazines 60 rounds total. I work for the county so backup could be a few minutes are almost an hour away. 15 shots vs 6,7 or 8? Gotta go with 15.
A 40 minute response time (in good weather) is why I carry guns at home. During a week with no power and nearly impassable roads, my neighbors and I patrolled our area with rifles and shotguns. My handguns are reactive. Serious work requires serious firearms. Most DGU situations are not firefights.
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Old 10-07-2015, 04:27 AM
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I carry a 5 shot wheel gun daily but I am NOT a uniformed LEO. If I were, I'd probably carry a .40 Semi Auto with at least 12 or 13 round capacity. I am NOT a believer in more rounds is a replacement for good and accurate shooting, but even the 8 shot capacity of some modern revolver cylinders is second fiddle to what some of the BG's are now carrying; especially in the larger metropolitan areas. I suppose for some areas that are relatively peaceful the Revolvers are fine protection and are certainly more reliable, however for crime ridden areas a large capacity auto might be the way to go.

There is also something to be said about carrying a weapon that uses the same ammo and magazine as fellow officers. If you run out of ammo in your .38 / .357 Magnum and no one else can furnish you with another reload - other than maybe a BUG you are in deep dodo.
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Old 10-07-2015, 07:51 AM
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And just where is this safe, Ranger514?
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Old 10-07-2015, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LaVistaBill View Post
When the Model 686 Plus Mountain Gun came out I lamented, "Why in the heck didn't this come out back in the day when I could have carried it!?" My outfit used to allow personal handguns until an ex-NYPD commissioner took command, then we went to Tactical Tupperware. My personal 686 Plus MG shoots great and I would not feel undergunned if I could carry it on duty today, stoked with 125 gr. JHP .357 Magnum loads.

Nice!

I think I just found another bucket list gunLEO carrying a 686 Plus
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Old 10-07-2015, 08:41 AM
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I grew up around revolvers, and went thru my first academy in 1990 with a 686. I also carried a four inch 19-5 for a little while. I am somewhat intrigued with the 8-shot 327 Tactical model. I honestly haven't seen a uniformed LEO carrying a duty wheelgun for years. A few of the guys who came on around the time I did still carry 5-shots and generally remember how to shoot and manipulate them. The younger folk want 5-shots either because they think they look cool or are much lighter and easier to carry than a Baby Glock. What they don't want is practical instructions on how to shoot and carry. $10 for a speed loader would break the bank. My heart goes out to all the instructors out there who offer quality revolver training to anyone honestly dedicated. The revolver still has its place.
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Old 10-07-2015, 10:25 AM
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There is also something to be said about carrying a weapon that uses the same ammo and magazine as fellow officers. If you run out of ammo in your .38 / .357 Magnum and no one else can furnish you with another reload - other than maybe a BUG you are in deep dodo.
Frankly I am not giving my remaining ammo to someone who has foolishly exhausted theirs...
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Old 10-07-2015, 02:25 PM
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All of the LEO's with the Smithsonian carry revolvers. They don't have a choice.
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Old 10-07-2015, 08:40 PM
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Does anyone else carry a revolver today?

I would think it near insanity to do so in modern times.
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Old 10-07-2015, 09:56 PM
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The only insanity would be not carrying SOMETHING. I carry revolvers.
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Old 10-07-2015, 10:05 PM
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Why would it be insanity to carry a revolver? Love to see the response.
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Old 10-08-2015, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chief38 View Post
There is also something to be said about carrying a weapon that uses the same ammo and magazine as fellow officers. If you run out of ammo in your .38 / .357 Magnum and no one else can furnish you with another reload - other than maybe a BUG you are in deep dodo.
If I run out of ammo, I've already burned through the 30 rounds of .357 Magnum and 17 rounds of .38 Special +P that is on my person, and the doodoo is deeper than anything since the LA police shootout. OTOH, if the LAPD had been carrying .357 Magnums....
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Old 10-08-2015, 03:57 PM
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How are you carrying 24 extra rounds? Or is it 30 + whats in your revolver?
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Old 10-08-2015, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elm_creek_smith View Post
The only insanity would be not carrying SOMETHING. I carry revolvers.
I meant on duty, as an LEO. And not as a BUG, but in lieu of a semi-auto duty pistol.
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Old 10-08-2015, 08:40 PM
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I am not LEO, but I carry everyday for the lawful defense of self and those under the mantel of my protection. 9 out 10 times, it's either a Ruger GP100 Match Champion with full-tilt 125 gr. Magnums, or a S&W .41 magnum with 210 gr. Speer Gold Dots.

That said, if I were an LEO today and had the choice, I would probably choose a VERY high capacity bottom feeder. Probably a Beretta 92 with a 20 round magazine. Massad Ayoob has written extensively on collecting stories of LEO's and armed citizens who lost gunfights BECAUSE of the capacity and reload issues with revolvers. There are quite a few cases.

I carry a large revolver b/c I am not as likely as an LEO to find myself in a protracted firefight with multiple armed felons who don't want to go back to the big house. I'm in a rural area with very low crime; so wheel gun it is for me.
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Old 10-08-2015, 08:52 PM
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I'm the captain of a uniformed government security detail. We are not LEOs, but we perform armed access control, perimeter and meeting security, both in situ and off-site, and personal protection for our principals. All my officers carry Glock 22s. I carry a Smith & Wesson Model 686-6 and qualify semiannually on the exact same course of fire as all LEOs in the state, usually 96% or 100% per course of fire. (We have to shoot a qualifying score twice each time.) Yeah, I carry a S&W Model 642-2 as a backup gun, too.
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Old 10-08-2015, 09:42 PM
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My first agency wouldn't allow anything but revolvers - carried a 686 with 145 Silvertips in a Hoyt breakfront from 84-91 - never felt under gunned. Was really disappointed when my second agency issued us Glop 21s...

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Old 10-08-2015, 11:45 PM
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"...Glop 21s..." Combat Tupperware!
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  #44  
Old 10-10-2015, 02:38 PM
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The reason that performance is poorer with auto-pistols is training. Some agencies put in adequate time and effort, and set/maintain a standard, so they get satisfactory performance. Some don't do that, and they get what they deserve. More and more agencies are afraid that more training means more dead offenders (like that's a bad thing) and/or simply don't want to spend the money to maintain the perishable skill.

In an urban setting, with lots of backup only moments away, I would not be bothered by carrying a good revolver, but I would have to invest a lot of training in getting back to a level of proficiency I consider acceptable. Most of my training for the last 25+ years has been with auto-pistols, and I have to be realistic. Having worked in areas where backup was a long time coming under some circumstances, there is much to be said for higher capacity and more ammo carried in magazines. My last duty weapon was a G21, and I carried 3 spare mags on my belt, with more in the car or in my carbine case. I also carried my own AR (set up for me) with 4 mags, plus the 2 mags from the car.

Considering that my agency had an event occur a few years ago that required sending runners to the armory for replacement ammo, that kind of event was in the back of my mind. Another big issue is that most of the R&D on duty ammo of the last 20 years has been applied to auto-pistol calibers. Very few revolver only rounds have been tested and validated. While the uniformity theory is irrational and without any basis (ammo exchange is a myth, and the parade ground fetish of some agencies is shameful), carrying ammo that has not been validated is unsound, and allowing it is dereliction per se.
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  #45  
Old 10-10-2015, 05:01 PM
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"DUI Specialist".........would guess his greatest need would be the ability to punch through car bodies and glass.....wonder what his ammo was...... AP rounds or 158gr soft point?

Kind of why my Dad got a.357 as a motorcycle officer before WWII.....


Add an M1A1.... Tanker .308 and a half dozen 20rd mags...... to his trunk........

while you can't predict what threat you'll face.......... prepare for the worst.........

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  #46  
Old 02-15-2018, 02:50 PM
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Okay, almost 3 yrs later but....

My agency only allows for primary revolver carry if you did so pre 1991. I came on in '96 so that's out. But my BUG is a wheelie! I also help the range staff teach the revolver classes for in house and the AZPOST revolver portion in the firearms instructor schools.

There are times I'd like to carry a big wheelgun, simple, no mags to screw with & POWERFUL! But, my .40 has served me well.
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Old 02-16-2018, 09:38 AM
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I'm fairly sure that our Sheriff would allow me to carry a revolver on duty, if I liked, and could qualify with it. I have a little more latitude, because I'm one of the agency's firearms instructors, and my primary duties are animal control, but I still answer patrol calls. I would certainly consider it for a number of reasons, like the ease of deploying rat shot, and a wide variation of available ammunition. The downsides are the lack of decent level 2/3 duty holsters, capacity of course, interchangeability of ammo between officers, and the loss of uniformity. I like my Glock model 22, and am more proficient with it than most, and I trust the caliber. Also, why carry, and beat up your revolver, when the agency will provide you a gun, and gear, that you can beat the snot out of?
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Old 02-18-2018, 10:14 PM
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Uniformity of appearance/issued gear is an answer in search of a problem unless one is on a parade ground.
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Old 02-18-2018, 11:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turnerriver View Post
My wife & I were at the roll call for a multi-agency DUI checkpoint last night & I told our friend who is a DUI specialist for the county department that the forum would want the details on his revolver.The county dept. allows revolver carry although I see very few-the Block & it's spawn are omnipresent.His is a 686 Plus-he explained that his father taught him to shoot with a revolver & he didn't see any reason to change.He then opened his shirt & showed me a model 60 tucked in a holster affixed to his body armor.Well armed & well prepared.
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Old 02-19-2018, 08:13 AM
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I was in Philly a couple of summers ago and saw a uniformed cop carrying a revolver. When I asked her about it she said she was grandfathered in when the change happened. She could handle her .38 in her sleep and saw no reason to change so close to her retirement date. When my agency transitioned to the Glock 23 the chief said no exceptions and I’m guessing it was a budget (having to stock .40 & .38) as well as a training thing.
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