Do ANY police departments today still issue the .38 Spl. Model 10?
 

Is the Model 10, the one currently in production with the heavy barrel, rubber grips, internal firing pin and offensive lock; is it being issued by any police or sheriff department anywhere in the united states?

I've heard it said that police department's in Mexico still issue them.

I think the Hong Kong Police still use a 4", heavy barrel Model 10.

i was issued a model 10.....in 1975.....i'm unaware of any depts.that still carry this fine revolver

I don't honestly know of any US LE agency that ISSUES any revolvers
anymore period. Some security gaurd co.s still issue revolvers. The state corrections system here only recently quite issuing 38 revolvers loaded with RNL and 30-30s. Many agencies still allow revolver carry but they are privately owned. I have seen several K frame magnums, a Colt Trooper, and two S&W N frames in LE use in my area. I still carry a wheelgun sometimes and always have a j frame snub for a backup. I do have a M10 and have thought about carrying it just because they are such a nice/light/accurate weapon.
Would be fine for off duty.

Most officers now tend to believe the revolver just doesn't
hold enough ammo to be offensive against today's brand of
turds, but cops have been facing full auto with revolvers
for years. Honestly, I doubt I will carry my wheelgun much
longer even though I really like it and am good enough
with it. 6 in the gun, 12 on the belt, and boxes in the car
is not all that much or fast. Revolvers are just so classic and reliable
though.

The 1986 Miami shootout spelled the end for wheelguns and 9mm
though. Those agents had a few 9mms but mostly revolvers with few speedloaders and boxes of ammo. A revolver loaded with Win SuperX 158 +P LSWCHP ended the fight, but most of those agents had revovlers up against a Mini 14/other long guns. It was interesting though that the revolver shooters aimed while the auto users sprayed and prayed. You cant spray and pray with a wheelgun or you will be in serious trouble.

I do think that Mexico and some foreign countries still issue
the M10 and probably with RNL ammo too.

I was issued a Model 10 4" Heavy Barrel in July,1964 when joined my Dept. This was a fine,no frills weapon. In 1966 the Dept. went to the Model 15. I regret that I did not purchase my issue Mod.10.

I do prisoner transports for my local sheriff's department all over the state of Oklahoma. There is a privately owned group of prisons here in Oklahoma named CCA (Corrections Corporation of America) and their perimeter and transport staff are still issued model 10s.

The problem in the Miami-Dade shootout was not that they used revolvers, but that they took handguns into a heavy artillary fight. It's shot placement that counts in the first place, in the second place, as you noted, policemen have faced killers even more deadly and heavily armed than those two guys such as Bonnie & Clyde, John Dillinger, Baby Face Nelson, Machinegun Kelly, Prettyboy Floyd (who were armed with even more effective weapons like the BAR or the 50 round Thompson). When police went after these guys, they used their .38s to shoot their way to their Thompsons, .30-30s, Shotguns or BARs and engaged with longguns if they didn't already have their longguns out and ready. (I.E. Texas Ranger Frank Hamer and his Louisiana possee made swiss cheese out of Bonnie & Clyde with BARs or Colt Monitors. Also, the FBI didn't go after Ma Barker and her boys with .38 Official Police revolvers alone they took Thompsons, shotguns, BARs)

I don't personally believe the gunfight would have turned out any different (maybe worse) if they had all been armed with .40 S&W high capacity automatics. It's shot placement that counts, not how many you have.

I read a post on here somewhere that several depts still have Model 10s in inventory, but that it's not their issue weapon. I believe NY was one?

It was written in the NY Times in December 2004 that about 5% of NYPD officers (2000 of 30000) still carried the model 64 NY-1, which is a DAO stainless heavy barrel model 10. They were no longer being issued to new officers, but those who had them could still carry them until retirement. Wonder how many are still in service 5 years later? This is the link I found to this article, apparently the NYT doesn't have it available any more.

Interesting NY Times article on NYPD revolvers. - imfdb.org

The last that I checked, Mexico IS a foreign country. It just doesn't seem so, because half of their people live here now. :mad:

Oh, well: we sort of need their restaurants...I guess.

Seriously, I think that Brazilian police use a lot of Smith and Taurus .38's. This is partly because the govt. there distrusts people with powerful autos, even cops. And I think that a lot of those cop guns are privately owned. For one thing, that saves the agency the cost of providing guns. Economic issue.

T-Star

I've seen model 10s and 586/686s worn by more than one in "a near-by county" (in WA). The cop I spoke to said "unofficial" policy (which is why I'm not identifying the LE agency) was that if they owned them, they could wear them. Since the county's official arm is an older 9mm, which apparently isn't trusted, the trusty revolver is still preferred.

Keep in mind, this is a county in which there is only one incorporated "city" and lots more trees than teeth......

To this day the Lehigh County Sheriff's Dept. here in PA still issues the stainless version (Model 64 or 65?) of the Model 10. They are pre-lock and pre-MIM and made right. I guess they keep recycling them when the deupties retire or die. The deputies continue to scream bloody murder about having to use the "obsolete revolver" while I would be happy to trade in my department issued Sig 229 for an old Model 10. As far as I'm concerned, if you can hit what you're shooting at, six rounds of proper .38 Special are better than any semiauto out there.

Dave Sinko

I remember a few years ago the Library of Congress Police Department Officer's Union was trying to get autos, as they were still issued and mandated to carry revolvers.

When I visited the Smithsonian Museums in DC two years ago all the federal security officers were carrying Taurus fixed sight revolvers with factory rubber grips.

last summer i bought a ex-ODOC model 10-8 that had been traded in to oklahoma police supply

I bought my Mod 10 from a Police officer with about 200 rounds for $75. Great gun...

I was in Phnom Penh, Cambodia in Mar and April 2009 and the all local cops had Model 10's and a few had AK's. I also saw two US Property marked Colt 45's.
Chop

Ditto this September.

If I'm not mistaken (which has been known to happen :D), the Federal Protective Service still issues revolvers. I was in a Federal building in Boston a couple of weeks ago for an interview and the FPS officers on the door were all wearing revolvers. I think I saw three Rugers (GP100) and two SW Model 10/64. The FPS is charged with guarding Federal Buildings and Courthouses. The Federal Building in Honolulu, HI (I was living out there till last year) is protected by FPS armed with revolvers. I'm not sure what round they are issued, though I believe based on conversations with a couple of the guards that they use the "FBI load."
Doug

The answer to your question is 99.9% NO. Plastic auto's have taken command of most LEO issue sidearms, for several reasons. I was issued the M10 in 1972. Then the 80's arrived and the 5906 was our standard sidearm. I doubt any of today's young breed of officers have touched a revolver.

What you saw were contract security guards. We have them at my office building (federal) as well, although they recently transitioned from .38 revolvers to Sig P229's in 9mm. Actual FPS Officers, who are federal law enforcement officers, carry the Sig P229DAK in .40S&W. They transitioned from the SA/DA P229 in .357Sig when the (almost) entire Dept of Homeland Security went to the DAK .40. I did some range time with them during the transition. Secret Service is the only Homeland Security law enforcement entity that has not made the change. They stuck with the SA/DA P229 in .357Sig. As a Firearms Instructor for my agency, I end up providing qualifications for Agents from several different federal agencies, so I get to play with everybody's toys.

The last federal agencies I know to issue wheelguns were the US Marshal Service (they switched to the Glock 22 several years ago) and the US Bureau of Prisons (switched to Ruger semi-autos, I believe).

As to the original OP's question: I ran into a Police Officer from a small north Mississippi town at a training class early last summer. He had been issued a S&W Model 10 but was getting ready to purchase his own sidearm. He told me that he had been unable to afford to purchase his own when he was hired, so he had been issued one of the department's old wheelguns. I can't recall the name of the town, but I can check back on the class roster and see if I can come up with it. It was a tiny department with just a handful of officers.
Gonzo

Upon further reflection, I seem to recall that the Victoria, Australia Police Department issues the Model 10 revolver. There was a great deal of discussion about it on a law enforcement discussion forum a while back. The Police Union had cut a deal to replace the Model 10's with semi-autos following a shootout somewhere in Australia, but the local politicians blocked the change. Or something along those lines. Perhaps we have an Aussie member who could elaborate?

The real problem in that incident was the tactics used by the FBI. Given what transpired, semi-auto pistols and multiple magazines, sadly, wouldn't have saved S/A's Grogan and Dove.

Be safe.

s and

French police may still have some. They certainly issue some Ruger and Manurhin revolvers. Have had some S&W's.

These would mainly be local forces. The Gendarmerie Nationale has Beretta 92G's, I think, made at St. Etienne.

T-Star

Illinois may be the exception to the rule. Peoria PD issues 686, 64 & 10s. Decatur PD still issues 64s also authorized private purchase 1911 series 80. Green County 64s. Roodhouse 10s. These are just some of the departments that I have worked with. State corrections 64s.

Departments do not need to recycle pre lock, pre MIM guns. Departments can order NEW production no lock no MIM model guns via a S&W LEO distributor. The minimum purchase quantity varies with several factors including years of brand loyalty, previous purchase history, current need and others.

Last year I was able to order 2 (limited by distributor) new 686 no lock no MIM guns. My order was piggy backed with a local department order. Our regional LEO distributor will only piggy back orders from current LEOs. I have heard that other LEO distributors will help retired LEOs and other first responders.

The last I heard, the NYS Department of Corrections still uses Model 10's and a few Model 15's and the investigators (I know one personally) who has a M37, they are ex NYPD guns.

If I was a crook my worst nightmare would be some 60 year old police officer and a well worn in model 10. There is something to be said for shooting the same gun for 30+ years. Not to mention the triggers on old model 10s are just phenomenal. You're as good as dead if they get the drop on you.

dale

Well, I live in Mexico, so I suppose my opinion on the matter of the Model 10 in Mexico is somewhat qualified. Yes, there are still Model 10's in service. I have seen no NEW Model 10's in service, most of them being "pre-lock" models with 4 inch heavy barrels.

Up until about 8 years ago, the Model 10 was THE Police Revolver here. Up in Aguascalientes, they were actually using S&W Model 14's. There must be a pile of them on the "used" market up there, but I don't know anyone who knows enough about revolvers in that area to ask to go check. I'll be damned if I'm going up there right now.

8 years ago, the police here switched to the CZ-75 BD, the hammer dropper. About 2 years ago, they switched to the Glock 17. Still, a lot of CZ's remain in service, and some older Colt 1991 .38 Supers as well. The 3 "shift supervisors" carry the S&W 469. They only have 3 of those.

The Model 10's remain in service with the mounted patrols -- quite common around here -- and the Tourist police. Also, many new female officers are being hired (under the unstated assumption that they are more "honest" than their male counterparts) and they often have the old Model 10's, although I have seen a few with Glocks or CZ's, and one with a 1911 once. As all the Autos are carried in Condition 3 around here, personally, I think the Model 10 would probably be the thing to have if one had a choice except for the fact that issue ammo is the Aguila 130 grain FMJ bullet at about 850 fps the last time I chronoed it.

City Policemen in Mexico are not allowed to take their weapons home, and are rarely issued the SAME weapon daily, although they MAY be issued the same type of weapon (or not). They practise less than 100 rounds per year, generally. The upshot of this practise (based on basic distrust of the lowly paid officers) is that they will be unarmed when shift is over. So don't expect heroics during the shift, if you know what I mean. Backwards as hell, and changing only oh-so-slowly. But hey! They all wanna be seen with that Glock, by golly.

Foto; Excitement runs rampant as the first "test load" of Glock 17's arrive and local Police Officials test them out in a gravel pit. I tried to explain that the Glock 17 probably held no significant advantage over the CZ-75 BD that was already issued seeing as all local autoloaders are carried in Condition 3 anyways. However, the Glock is all the rage right now, and so anybody who is anybody in the local P.D. just had to have one.
https://i.imgur.com/Uw8dT2V.jpg

Foto; Policemen scurry about during the Glock testing. I don't have a decent camera -- these are cel-phone shots that I took when nobody was watching me too close you understand.
https://i.imgur.com/8CYh23f.jpg

Foto; A party-like atmosphere ensued in the gravel pit during the initial Glock test with wives, daughters, sons and midgets joining in. After all, this is Mexico.
https://i.imgur.com/iYexh3S.jpg

Foto; One of my "soldier of fortune" shots. Training Mexican Army rurales. I'm using my own K-38 here, although the rurales used a wide variety of guns and gear -- some okay, some not so okay. I saw a few neat pencil barrel Model 10's in use, some 1911's in .38 Super or .45, and even a Glock 17. One guy had two matching .38 Supers in hand-tooled holsters with guady silver and copper grips on them. He told me he had never fired at a target in his life...only into the air.

"The air?" I asked.

"Si," he said. "The air. At the parties, I drink the tequila, and I shoot into the air."

Giving him my best Eastwood squint, I asked, "Have you ever fired your pistols really quick at the same time into the ground on either side of you like Sam on Bugs Bunny so that you rise up into the air?"

"NO!" He exclaimed. "Does that work?"

"Not usually," I told him.

https://i.imgur.com/kDb3ryd.jpg

Maybe the funniest post I have ever read on here!!
"Have you ever fired your pistols really quick at the same time into the ground on either side of you like Sam on Bugs Bunny so that you rise up into the air?"
"NO!" He exclaimed. "Does that work?" LMAO!

Calmex,
You look like Chuck Norris in that last photo. I can almost hear you pointing to one officer in the ranks or the other saying "you" or "come here" and getting them to come try to take you on and wiping the floor with them as a good workout like in Delta Force 2. LOL!

I agree Dave. Its fun when I am at the range. I see all these so called shooters with their Glocks and Sigs shoot and there spread is all over their targets. I am a old revolver guy. I will take my model 10-14 (current model) and consistly shoot in the black or in red of a bulleye target. This is at 15 yrds away. Bullet placement is the key to suvival. You can miss with 10 rounds but three rounds by a model 10/64 with good ammo will beat the guys with the autoloaders everytime. Its a known fact.

roaddog28

The department I retired from in Nov 2007 issues the Model 642 as a back-up to the issue Glock 21, but no one carries a revolver as a duty weapon anymore.

french national police and gendarmerie who was till this year a military force are now equiped with sig 9 m/m
the municipal police who was under the mayor of the city order are only authorised to carry 38 special ,sometimes before 32 acp in a law of 5 years ago ,before they have 357 during 4 years many 357 were in the market for sold from municipal police .
the municipal police don't have the same task than your metropolitan police
no crime investigation,more circulation regulation and neighbours problems
hope i can help
have a good night
ANDRE

Calmex - if there was a Hall of Fame for great posts, that one with the midget would be inducted on the first round. You, sir, are the man.

Andre-

Merci beaucoup! Do the police there still use some Rugers? There is a photo of a French policewoman on the Net, with an SP-101 in her holster. Is it authentic? That is, do they use Rugers and Manurhins still? I know that Trautsch (a French company) makes grips for the SP-101.

If I understood you correctly, the police in cities now use only .38 Specials, the .357 having been authorized for four years, but not now? So, ex-police .357's are on the market there?

I definitely read that Beretta 92G's were being made at St. Etienne. Are these for Army use?

I'm guessing that GIGN uses whatever it wants?
What about the black-uniformed CRS riot police?

Do gendarmes often still carry the MAT-49 submachine gun?

We don't read much about French guns here. :rolleyes: A pity that Americans aren't more interested in other cultures. Most of what I know about France involves wines. I do know French wines quite well.

I have greatly enjoyed the film, "Day of the Jackal" (and the excellent book) , but the guns in it are dated, the movie being set in DeGaulle's time. One soldier executing a terrorist leader had the old M-92 8mm revolver!

My brother visited France some years ago and brought me a French gun magazine. Very interesting.

Thanks,

T-Star

The Phila. Pa. police do not issue the Model 10's anymore, but I see a good number of the officers still carry the Model 10's. I believe the older officers had the option of keeping thier issued revolver and not transitioning to the autos.

Dalewelch... You've got that right. I've been the range officer for some classes recently where retired officers qualify for the national carry permit. In one of the classes there were around 30 officers with over 600 combined years of law enforcement experience. They were an amazing group of shooters and some were real characters. About a third qualified with revolvers and they were incredibly accurate. Some of them had noticeable physical problems which had no effect on their accuracy. I'd be pretty happy to have those revolver shooters around if things went south.

TEXAS STAR
in city we find the the 3 corps
municipal police under the mayor autority
gendarmerie and national police under the governement
sp101 was for women in civilian of the national police
before the sig pistol you can find or manurhin 73 or manurhin 88
a ruger security 6 frame with a marurhin barrel and a frame stud
army seem also go to sig pistol
mat 49 is out they have H.K.
during the 80's C.R.S have the ruger mini 14 but now i don't know
the rifle serve above in riot control before they have old mousqueton
berthier 1916 ,C.R.S are unities of the national police
gendarmerie have the same in "gendarmerie mobile" but like they are military ,we find sqadron of armour vehicules ,parachutist compagnies
and they wear army regular firearms .
gendarmerie also can open fire more easily than police.
GIGN and the police similar force RAID use weapons other than regulars
beretta was made under licence at SAINT-ETIENNE i think that is the same for the SIG
yes there is a lot of 357 mag in sold during the lasts years
many 32 acp pp or ppk
now it's seem that the municipal police wear all the 38 4 " with fix sights and a laynard ring
have a nice day

ANDRE

I carried one on my job in NYC back in the early 70'- mid 80's then switched to my personnel Beretta 92 which carried 16 + one in the pipe. what a big difference, in fire power, but the old S&W model 10's were nice guns with the bull BBl's

"If I was a crook my worst nightmare would be some 60 year old police officer and a well worn in model 10. There is something to be said for shooting the same gun for 30+ years. Not to mention the triggers on old model 10s are just phenomenal. You're as good as dead if they get the drop on you."

Agreed. Somewhere I read " Be carfull of the guy who owns one revolver. Chances are he knows how to use it well."

Andre-

Thanks again.

A final question. What sort(s) of .38 wth four-inch barrel do you mean? Are Smith & Wessons used?

Thanks,

T-Star

Wish I could get the national carry. My old agency (federal) has never shown any interest in facilitating it--thanks for everything, Janet Napolitano--so I just run on the state CCW.

Maybe the US Supreme Court will interpret the 2nd as broadly as the Founders did. For once. We can hope.

If the old Model 10 worked for Jim Cirillo then it's obviously a pretty serviceable weapon.

yes it's for the most a 4 s&w mol 64 ,but not all the cities allow to policeman to carry a pistol some are only armed with a tonfa , some times a taser or a flash -ball or a spray mace
here on a forum a guy want to buy the old military pistoll mac 50 in 9 mm
it ' s very scarce because all the weapons ( army,gendarmerie and c.r.s.
were equiped with ) were sold outside or destroy .
the only souce to find one is when the ministry of justice sold theirs .
the director of prison have one
same for rifle find a mas 49/56 is not easy the price grow to 2000 euro
a mas 36 is 600-700 euro
have a nice day
ANDRE

I think the Mayberry Sheriffs Office does.

Sir, FWIW, I travel a bit, and I haven't seen a uniformed police officer carrying a revolver in a long time. I did see see a couple uniformed security guards carrying revolvers in Philadelphia last year. I'm also told that many private security guard types around here (Denver area) are required to carry revolvers, but I haven't personally seen any.

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.

The Sheriff of Jerome County, Idaho, carried a six inch K-38 in a clamshell holster, at least as of a few years ago. He was retired from the LAPD and saw no reason to change.

If I remember correctly you were an INS SA??????

PM sent, hit me up I may be able to help.

primersp-

Andre, thanks.

For what it's worth, I think some of the M-49/56 rifles have been sold here, but I've never see a MAC 9mm M-1950. I know what it is from photos; just never saw a real example.

T-Star

Here in Texas, a lot of rent-a-cops still carry them with ecological ammo..(green verdigris brass from reaction to being stored in leather loops). LOL!

FPS security officer weapons:

A lot depends on the company. Some companies issue the S&W M64s. The officers working in Virginia carry Glock 9mm M17s.

Court security officers work under the US Marshal Service. The ones locally carry Glock .40 M23s.