Could any of you who own or have experience with the airweight J frame revolvers (rated +P) comment on their durability with extensive use of the various +P loads in these guns? I'm thinking of picking up one for concealed carry, and I'll probably be putting 100 rounds/week through it for practice.

This is just my opinion, so I may be wrong. First, I don't think you'll wear out the frame at all. But second, after you feel the recoil with +P rounds, I don't think you will put very many rounds through it at all. Ever. I am 6'-4", 330 pounds and this thing brings me to my knees. More so than any .357 Magnum. I've shot just about every gun out there...hunting guns with .44 magnum in single action, etc. I would rather shoot any of them then the 638 with +P rounds. It is really just uncomfortable to shoot. Now for the plus...it is the MOST comfortable carry gun on the plant. Again, I've tried a lot. So, don't let me deter you, but you should get something else if you want to shoot 100 rounds/week. This one won't be fun to shoot like that. It is a great conceal carry gun though.

Later, B

two weeks ago shot my 640 next to a mp 340. I have to say that shooting 125 normal pressure rounds out of the mp, was worse than full house 357s out of the 640! So my view is that it really depends on your strategy. If you like the light weight gun, and fill it with nyclads, that sounds like a nice very light option that should do the job. If you want full house 357 or 38+p, I would go for the steel gun. I would not worry about shooting +p from the 640, as I have put 100 rounds down range in a session. No problems.

Funny you should mention the 640. I just got a 640-1 about a week ago and shot it for the first time this week. I like it much better than the 638 airweight .38 +P as far as recoil. I plan to start carrying it more than the airweight. But for inside-the-pocket carry, I'll still use the 638 airweight. B

Let us know how that 100/week of +P is going after a couple of months

I've got a 337 and it is a beast to shoot with regular pressure 38's. The thought of shooting 100 rounds through it in a session makes me wince-and then to do it weekly...ouch. I've shot enough out of mine to feel comfortable with it. It ain't pleasent to shoot and not my first choice for a fun gun

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Forum consigliere

I had a 637 for a short time, and had the same problem with felt recoil.
even with low pressure rounds, 50 rounds was about all I could handle.
I sold it and went to a M66 2-1/2" barrel K frame and just changed the way i carry it.
I would rather put up with the hassle of carrying a slightly heavier gun then carry one that I can't shoot comfortably.

Thanks to all of you. I really appreciate your insights and letting me know of your experiences with the lighter j frames. I know that every gun is a compromise...felt recoil, weight, concealability, durability, etc.

I guess you all are just reminding me of what I kind of suspected all along...that choosing a concealed handgun is going to be a decision based on exactly what I plan to use it for.

I have a 625 4", and a Ruger SP-101 3". Right now I'm looking for something that I can easily carry concealed without much fuss. I gather from your shooting experiences with the airweights that my running 100 rounds/wk of +P through an airweight isn't going to be very pleasant. But maybe if I put together my own mildly-loaded cartridges for practice, shoot 50-100 rounds of these, and then fire a dozen or so +P factory rounds, I should be better able to deal with the recoil issues of the +P's.

One of the greatest benefits of these forums is that we can throw out some questions, concerns, comments about stuff, and from the replies we get, we can draw on the experience of others to help us make better decisions.

Thanks again to all of you for your help.

son;
THAT's the ticket. Target wadcutters make good practice ammo then end the session with a gun full of +P's.

Grips can make all of the difference, also. I use #305 Crimson Trace grips (they are the larger extended that cover the back strap). I have rather large hands and they fit MUCH better and work well for pocket carrry, also. I use a Mika pocket holster and am quite comfortable with this set up for daily carry (mine is also a 642 with the FBI load).

Dale53

Do you really need to use +P rounds for practice?

I have a 442 that is quite comfortable to shoot, for me, with WWB or Blazer standard loads.
I shoot enough +P rounds to keep familiar with the feel, but use mainly standard stuff at the range, much less expensive that way also.

If you must shoot only +P's or 357 mag's I would agree with the others that recommend a steel gun.

NEVERMIND....I see we are all on the same page.

100 rounds of +P through an Airweight, per week, will wear you out long before the gun.

I carry a 642 every single day. NO way do I shoot weekly; and when I do shoot, it's usually about 90 rounds of standard pressure loads then a couple cylinders of +P. It's your gun, however, and your hand, too.

Be safe.

Well, I do know what the old 110 grain +P+ Treasury Loads will do to a 1976 vintage M37. They will put it out of time after a few (500?) rounds. Fortunately S&W put it right, and since then practice has been either factory w/c or std. vel. handloads, with the FBI load for carry.

The M37 was my wife's gun (lucky for me I got it fixed). My carry piece is a 1996 vintage 442, and I use the same diet for it. I also load it ball and dummy (using fired cases to plug the "empty" chambers) when practicing. It's good practice for trigger control and follow through stretches the ammo supply, and is less stress on the gun.

I don't think you need to consume great quantities of ammo to develop and maintain proficiency. The ball & dummy method and a timer, combined with more frequent practice with fewer rounds fired, shows results. Particularly over the years.

I've wondered about the durability of the Airweights myself since I recently bought a couple of them to rotate for concealed carry. I usually practice with standard loadings since they're cheaper but I do shoot a few +P at every practice session (not weekly) and I carry +P in the guns. I've found the heavier weight 158 gr. bullets in +P loadings are considerably uncomfortable but lighterweight 125 gr. +P loadings are not bad. I've been using 125 gr. +P Gold Dots and I can't feel too much difference in those and standard loads. But I agree that the little Airweights kick pretty good with everything.

Thanks again all for your help with my question of airweight durability. I picked up a 642 yesterday, and I can't believe the difference in weight 15oz vs 45+oz of my model 625! On the way home, I picked up some bandaids and a hammer (to hit my non-shooting hand with, and take my mind off the pain in my shooting hand).

I'm happy to see you still posting here Dale 53. You helped me make a decision about shortening the barrel of my 625 not too long ago. I used to be revo686 here, but because of 2 or three internet service provider changes, and our move from Illinois to Alabama earlier this year, I lost my ability to log-in to do an updated profile.

I just blew the dust off of my .38 reloading stuff, and am ready to put together some wadcutter loads for the 642. Dale 53, do the CT 305 grips you put on your 642 add much to the height of the gun? I just put a Hogue monogrip that I had from years ago on my j frame, and although shooting the gun will be easier to manage, the butt end of the grip gets hung up on pocket linings pretty easily because of the increased height. Maybe I'll try the new CT 405 (shorter, but extra cushioning) out in the store to see how it feels.

I have a 638, and carry Speer +P Short Barrel Gold Dots in it. I dont' want to go broke, so I have only shot a few, just to be sure they work OK. Mostly I shoot for practice the SAECO 150 gr wadcuter with 3.0 grs of Win 231. It's a nice, light, practice load. You need to shoot enough of your full power loads to make sure you and your gun is OK with them. But, I don't think you need to practice with full power loads; if you shoot light loads for practice, when the balloon goes up and adrenaline is dripping off the end of your nose, you will grip the revolver hard enough so it won't move even with the hottest loads you can put in the cylinder.

As others have said most of your shooting should be with a light handload. W231 powder is good choice with about 3 to 3.3 grains with a 158 gr bullet. Then shoot out your carry loads every month and you should be fine.

I bought my first Model 642 in 1991. I have shot probably 2,500 factory Plus-P loads through it and probably that many more standard and mid-range loads. The gun has held up just fine.

They are not pleasant to shoot with Plus-P ammo. Some people find standard pressure 158 grain ammo to be all they care for. The Airweight J frame S&W's aren't fun to plink with when shot with Plus-P, at least much passed the first 10 rounds persession!

I think that the Model 642 may be the perfect CCW .38 snub!

How do you all like the stock factory grips on the 642 and other j frames with the same grips? Have any of you tried other aftermarket grips that work better (less pain/more comfortable), and still keep the gun easily concealable?

On my 642 for concealed carry the factory grips do the job I'm not sure about the CT grips yet. The factory grips are only good for 40 or so rounds after that the hand no longer wants to give true accuracy the Hogue's that cover the blackstrap work very well but I don't like them for pocket carry but for the range they hold up for the monthly hundred or so round. I have large hands and typically shoot at 20-25 yards which calls for me to hold the gun a little harder with the factory grips the Hogue's relieve that, but with the factory grips and 5 rounds at 5-10 yards -say- bye-bye target.

The boot grips that come with today's J-frames simply don't fit me in any way. Something longer would be preferable since I have large hands but something longer is not an option for concealed carry in my pants pockets. While I wouldn't recommend them for everyone, I have replaced the boot grips on all my J-frames with the old-style S&W magna grips. Yes, they are small and not necessarily very comfortable but they conceal well and I actually find them easier for controlling the recoil since my hand rides up higher on the backstrap. If I use a "crush grip" when shooting, the kick is not so bad.

The reason I started this thread regarding the durability of the airweight J frames was that I wanted to have a handgun that I could conceal with a minimum of fuss, including pocket carry without suspenders. So, a revolver/pistol weighing more than 18-20 oz. and greater than 6-1/2" long would be, in my opinion too heavy/large.

In June of 2004 I printed an article from a Chuck Hawks website. The article was entitled "Ammunition for the Self-Defense Firearm", and the author of the article remained anonymous.

The part of the article which dealt with cartridges in .38 special mentioned that the aluminum-framed revos (including the Smith's wouldn't tolerate more than 100 or so +P loads before going out of time, loosening up etc.

I don't know the exact date of the article, but it stuck out in my mind, and thus the question regarding durability of airweight revos which started this thread.

BUFF, you said you put 2500 factory +P loads through your 642 since 1991, and if your experience with the 642 is typical of others' experiences, then my fears are put to rest. Whether or not I would want to or be able to run that many +P's through my 642 is another matter.

Thanks again to all of you who contributed to this thread. I truly appreciate your input.

By the way, I took my 642 out for a walk today, and I hardly noticed it in my pocket...I now know why, despite the challenge of shooting the things well, people choose these handguns as concealed carry pieces.

Am putting together some target loads for a trip to the range later this week. I'm sure I'll keep 'em all within 2" at 25yards

I have only shot about 400 rounds through my 642 that I got in May of this year. I have shot about 100 rounds of +p reloads, 250 rounds of regular loads, and about 50 rounds of +p mixed Winchester and Gold dot. I generally only shoot between 30 and 50 rounds a session because of wanting to shoot my other pistol (Glock's) also. I am more accurate with the G26 but getting better with the 642. For me it takes more practice to shoot accurately with the 642 as opposed to the G26 even though I grew up with the S&W Mod 10. I have not noticed any degradation to the finish or functioning as of yet. Look forward to many years of service from my little 642.

BTW - I have left the orginal boot grips on mine. I think I would like to get some after market grips either some Spiegels or grips from Esmeralda.

Here is my 642 (finish is Black-T) wearing precision gun specialties hideout grips. These are their textured grips without finger grooves. For me, they conceal just as well as the boot grips while providing a full grip with the shooting hand. I've tried EVERYTHING else and these are my favorite thus far.

Attached Images

SMITHWESSONMODEL642-1.jpg (139.3 KB, 524 views)

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Aaron Terry

I have an older but pristine Model 37 Airweight, and wrote Smith and Wesson about the use of +P ammunition. They were very clear about not using +P ammunition in this little J frame. Accordingly, I am staying with 158 grain Buffalo Bore hollow point ammunition, which is specifically designed for short barrels and standard pressures.

+1 on the other comments.

I've carried my 642 pro for a long time and put several hundred rounds of standard-reloaded .38's through it and some hotter stuff occasionally. My hand usually poops out around 50ish rounds of standard .38.

On the other hand...my 60-9 is just fine with +P and light .357 reloads.

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But then, what do I know?

Ditto on many posts. I uses several J frames from a 649-3 to a 638.
I shoot a few cylinders of +P every other range trip or so. To much pop and too expensive to do more and I am confident with the gun and round. The rest are ball ammo .38 specials..usually the least expensive I can find. They hone the muscle memory. I doubt you will crack a J frame by using too much +P but if you do it gets replaced.
+P is for self defense only.. get familiar with it... then practice alot with .38 spl std loads. That's my opinion based on what I do. Same goes fro my .357 mag J frames. I shoot a cylinder o 2 every outing or 2 just to know I can handle it then practice with .38 spl for form.

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John 1:17
NRA Life Benefactor

Don't worry about wearing the gun out. The gun will wear you out.

I bought the CT 405 grip for my 442, and it does have a bit of cushioning on the backstrap. But it's not much, and the grip itself is very thin. It fits flush with the bottom of the grip frame, so adds no height to the gun. I don't find it any more comfortable to shoot than the stock boot grip, but of course it does offer the laser.

On my 638 I have the CT 305, and I find it MUCH more comfortable to shoot. It's a bit fatter than the 405, which spreads the recoil out more. But it IS taller - has to be to offer a place for your pinky finger. I almost always carry in a belt holster and it conceals nicely there, but the grip is a bit too big for any of MY pants pockets. (Frankly, so is the 442 with a 405 grip - I need to lose a lot of weight ) Works OK in mosts of my jackets, though.

I have a 637. It has had a few hundred rounds through it, some really +P 110 grain and some 158 +P. The rest are standard pressure 150 to 168 grain lead. NO signs of loosening up.

The stock grip that came with the gun is perfect for me and I have big hands. It just fits me. Last night I bought a CT 105 grip and installed it. Shooting the gun today, so far I much prefer the stock grip, so I will no better this afternoon.

I HAD a BG 38 for a few months. It got loose really fast. I sent it in, they replaced the cylinder on warranty. It loosened up again in a few hundred rounds so I traded it for the 637, a much better gun. The BG 38 was the easiest gun to shoot with +P of my 4 J frames if you call the BG 38 a J frame. It was easier on the hands than model 36 in a direct comparison.

Enjoy your gun and shoot the heck out of it!

I don't shoot 100 rounds a week out of my 637, but do shoot it every week.



David

I carry a 340PD every day in my front pocket, loaded wit Speer 135 gr +P. Original Hogue "Bantam" grips.

Practice can be a bitch, and I think it would be easy to have permanent hand damage after a while.

My solution:
Most of my practice is with a S&W 43-C, same as the 340 but in .22 LR. Cheap and easy on the hand.
A moderate amount of practice is with 130 gr FMJ from Win, Fed, or PMC. Enough recoil to sting and require a firm grip, but no injuries after 50 rds.
A small amount of practice is with the Speer 135, but usually only 10 rds at a time at the end of a session.

A firm grip is mandatory for both control and for minimal pain. I use a foam rubber (no coiled steel springs) grip exerciser, twice per day. That helps a lot.

That's what works for me, YMMV.

This was the post that made me end up with a 642:

Project: Break my J frame.

He's just recently (4/6) broke the 5k round mark. Another poster in the same thread broke 2k with his 637. I highly doubt one could wear out a modern j-frame aside from flat out abuse. If you do, I'm sure S&W would gladly fix what's wrong with it.

I have a 642 for everyday carry. I load it with a standard pressure load. I have carried my airweights that way since the late 70's. Maintaining control of your gun so you hit your target is what counts. Flinching every time you pull the trigger is not good control. I use Hogue grips and they afford comfort and control.

Many shooters practice with heavier guns regularly then run a cylinder full through the airweights every month or so for familiarity. Although I have never heard of an airweight wearing out.

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"Sacramento" Bruce Conklin

Well since we're dragging up a 5 yr old thread I'll play too haha. For me the air weights (I recently got a 442) fall into that "carry a lot, shoot a little" category.

I carry mine with the Gold Dot 135gr load designed for short barrels. I don't shoot more than 50 rds through mine when I hit the range. Those rounds though are run in drills simulating as much as possible a real world situation.

My range has targets that can turn and run on timers so I start at 5 feet and go out to 15. So for me I practice self defense use with my 442, have others I use for longer, more fun range time.

Sent Using Tapatalk

Rex: Thanks for the 'recoil anticipation chart'. I saved it for future reference...........James

Your welcome James.
I use it regularly.

I posted one of my own targets on the thread Getting accurate with Airweights.


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I just joined the J-frame club yesterday. Picked up a used/virtually new 637, only had 20 rnds. thru it. Fella bought it for his wife and she didn't like it.
Question I have is. Does anybody have a hand load using power pistol and 158 gr. jhp.? This is the only pistol powder I have and pistol power remains hard to find. I have a bunch of the 158 gr, bullets so I'd like to try them.
All input is welcome.

I'm on the same quest. Working on the theory that a lighter bullet (all other things being equal) generates less recoil to achieve the same velocity as a heavier bullet, so am leaning towards 125 Grain JHPs (just bought 100 Hornady XTPs from Midway). I have five or six .75 lbs bottles of Trail Boss so will start with that. IMR's web page mentions a 3.0 grain start load. I'm looking for a practice round that will be tolerable to shoot 25-30 times, followed by five +P rounds to finish off a practice session.

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S&W Rover

My Dads vintage Airweight Bodyguard with stock panels is no fun to shoot with anything , it's a carry gun for sure, not a range gun.

Lots of people buy new Airweights because of the price and then realize they are painful to shoot....

Factory stock grip panels are probably chosen for small size and low cost, which are not the characteristics one usually puts at the top of the list when searching for comfortable-to-shoot-with grips.

While an airweight J will almost never be as comfortable to shoot as a steel K or L frame using the same ammo, regardless of the grip chosen, there are so many (relatively) comfortable J frame grip options that there's little excuse for not practicing a fair bit with one. Even expensive grips only cost a few boxes of ammo

The 642 is a superb carry piece. I urge you consider carrying Buffalo Bore 150 grain hard cast wadcutter rounds. Perfect projectile configuration for a short barrel revolver.

Below me with my 642 (and wife!)
i

Sorry, don't have a picture handy but you might want to check out Hogue's 60020 Tamer grips for J frames. They are a little larger than S&W's stock grip but they have a nice cushion and the end is a hard smooth plastic cap that doesn't get hung up on the pants pocket like the sticky rubber end can.

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Vietnam 1969-1971

You two look like a great couple! Thank you for your loyal service to your community & nation!

about 5000 rd's of +P they will be real loose and sloppy.

I'm right at 2100 in my 442-2.
A great revolver, my everyday gun.

One of my carry revolvers is a pre-37 flat latch. It wears factory J frame target stocks, which makes +P quite manageable. Since the day I acquired it I've put probably 1500 or more practice rounds through it, and along with them several hundred +P loads of JHP bullets. The gun is dead on, tight as the day it was born. I really don't have a lot of faith in the whole "not rated for +P" thing. I don't plan on stopping the +P loads any time soon.

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Geoff. Since 1960.

Not sure if it's already been said, but google "project break my j frame." There's a guy on another forum who's been putting rounds through his 442 pretty consistently... last I checked (maybe last week) he'd gotten to about 6,000 rounds without a hitch. Airweights are built to be carried and shot. As far as the older models or not using +p ammunition, there's research out there that will tell you every caliber is better or worse than every other. Carry what you're comfortable with... .38s have kept a lot of people alive. Then again, that's what I carry, so I may be biased.

I love my J Frames. I carry a 642 and shoot mostly standard pressure 38's. I Shoot +P occasionally. I carry +P all the time. Great guns.

I am a light-weight J-frame fan. I carry either my 340PD or my M&P340 daily. They are stoked with Speer 135-gr GDHP for short-barrels. Both are the same configuration as the 640-1 that I shoot more often. That friend is beside me in my recliner. I have hundreds of rounds through all three of them with no problems. Shoot what yer comfortable doing.

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GA Carry member
Vietnam Vet