For those of you who swear by your 5" 686--which do you prefer, the full lug or the half lug? Is there a difference in balance, accuracy, "pointability", etc? Interested in your opinions.

I'm a full lug kinda guy.
586, 686 and even the 29 Classic.

I like a full lug, plus another inch added.

I have owned both and now have a full lug unfluted cylinder and its my all time favorite. I think it balances better and i recently put 100 rounds of Blazer 158 gr .357's through it and it was like shooting .38's.

Thanks guys. I'm thinking about buying either gun or both. Shot the half lug and it was very accurate. Any ideas on what they are going for. Hard to find them online...

Either as long as it's a ramp front sight and square notch rear; can't stand that HiViz stuff. Changed mine out and either is great. If you've got access to both and can find the funds, get both. Next year at this time they'll seem like bargins.

I prefer the 5 inch model with half lug otherwise I sense too much weight up front. In the 4 inch version the full lug balances well for me.

I don't have a 5", but I like the full lug barrels.

Kaum, Riverview sales has the performance center version of the half lug. I bought mine there. It looks like the one you posted except its a bead blast stainless, with all of the performane center goodies, wide trigger, smoothest action you will feel on a revolver, removable rail, Hi Viz siights. If i were going to go half lug its the one i would buy.

No 5" but I have a 4 and a 6" 686. Man I'd love to have one with a 1/2 lug. They look so much better IMHO.

__________________
Dave

I passed up a chance to one with the 1/2 lug for $500. Been mad at myself ever since. I have shot both and like the 1/2 lug on the 5 inch barrel. I don't like my guns to be muzzle heavy. That is one of the reasons I sold my Pythons.

I love the partial lug look. My 5" h-l 686+ was bought locally new nearly five years ago - $489.99 - some $10 less than standard 4" 686+. It was that year's 'Stocking Dealer Exclusive', SKU #164284, and came with a HiViz front and V-notch rear sight as well as Ahrends cocobolo finger-grooved square conversion grips... a bargain then, for sure.

Stainz

I agree, the half lug has a classic, traditional look that harkens back to the old days. That element is missing in the current 686 line.

First... love the L frame have the 21/2 inch 4 inch full lug 6 inch full lug Mountain gun and the five inch half lug. The half lug 5inch comes out of the holster as good as the 4inch full lug for me and the extra inch is great for fast target acquisition also for moving from target to target and the 7 shot is a nice fast shooter. You should take the time to shoot them if you have the opportunity. The L frame is a great gun and comes in an array of combinations. Good shooting.

I have a theory. The moment the bullet starts moving forward, a rearward reaction force is acting on the gun. During the milliseconds the bullet is traveling down the barrel, its trajectory is affected by the guns reactive movement. The heavier the barrel, especially towards the muzzle end since reactive movement pivots about the shooter's wrist, the more mass is opposing that movement. It's a matter of rotational inertia: the more mass, the less acceleration and less movement.

I believe this is why 686s with 4 or 6 inch barrels are consistently rated as some of the most accurate revolvers. When I shot my m29 with 8-3/8" barrel and partial lug, I always got a vertical spread on my group. I believe this is because the gun recoils enough during bullet-in-barrel transit time that it affects the trajectory. Longer barrel and slower bullet also play into this.

Therefore, my vote, at least as far as accuracy is concerned, goes to the full lug version.

I am very partial to L-Frame guns, of ALL barrel lengths--witness my "Screen Name".

I find as I get older--and MAYBE "Wiser"--that I prefer a little LESS weight in the FRONT of my guns. Therefore, I prefer the FEEL of the four-inch L's to that of the six-inch guns--but rue the loss of the additional SIGHT RADIUS when shooting much past 50 feet or so.

This is why I think that the five-inch, HALF-LUG barrel configuration may be the BEST of the lot--enough weight to keep it STEADY, but not so much as to feel "Front Heavy", yet with enough SIGHT RADIUS that I can shoot it better than the four-inch barreled guns. YMMV, of course. Paulie686.

One of the best 'pointing' .357's of all times was the 4" 19 or 66. Just a delight to shoot - especially with lighter loads - like my wimpy .357's. You can still get a partially lugged 4" new .357M - more like a 686+ as it is built on an L-frame and has a 7-shot cylinder. Of course, it's the 620. Interestingly, the 4" 66 weighs 37.0 oz (S&W 2004 catalog) while the 620 weighs 37.9 oz (2005 & later catalogs). As they take the same grips, little difference would be noted. So, with 4" models, you have had a new choice for some time.

Stainz

Well the full lug guns I would think are more accurate with less barrel flex. I have only one 686 and it's still NIB because of weather, sick, etc. But I do know my full N frames are accurate, but have no partial lug S&W's to compare. I do however have a DW with partial lug barrel 4" and full lug 6" and the 6" full is easily more accurate. But that's an apples & orange comparison I guess.

I wish S&W made tensioned barrel L & N frame guns in 357, 44, and 10mm like Dan Wesson did, but that's not likely. Makes for an expensive, but far more accurate pistol then fixed barrel models.

__________________
Cranky Old Retired USN Guy

I like the 5" length guns although I have more 6" ones. The SD 5" half-lug does balance about the same, as it uses a slightly beefier barrel than the full lug, so the weight remains the same.

Actually, they do make some tensioned barrel models. The model 620 uses a tensioned barrel assembly and it's a real tack driver. The latest release of the model 67 also uses a tensioned barrel.

Personally, I don't like the looks of a full lug barrel and have also discovered that it can cause accuracy issues in some types of shooting. In rapid fire DA shooting the revolver that I am most accurate with is my old pencil barreled model 67. My least accurate revolver for rapid fire DA shooting is my 6 1/2 inch model 610 and I shoot it pretty miserably in this mode.

The problem is the Swing weight. Picture trying to swing a 24 ounce hammer and bringing it to a stop very quickly. Now picture swinging a very light tack hammer and trying to bring it to a stop quickly. All guns firing a moderately powerful caliber will exhibit some muzzle rise. This means that the gun has to be brought back to the point of aim after each shot. When you have a gun with a lot of muzzle mass, trying to bring it back to the point of aim quickly will result in the barrel swinging past that point of aim due to the inertia of that heavy muzzle. So, you either have to slow down your rate of fire or try and "time" the shot with the gun still moving.

Many equate a heavy muzzle with less muzzle rise and this is true. However, they do not consider the level of power required to move that muzzle quickly back to the point of aim quickly and that is the flip side of the equation. Oddly enough, many those who think that reduced muzzle rise is the only factor that matters, will report that they shoot their short barreled 686's more accurately than their longer guns and never think about why.

Frankly, I wish that the Python had never been invented. Then perhaps S&W wouldn't be driven by marketing forces to pythonize a fine gun like the 686 with a full length lug. I like almost everything about my 610. The long sight radius make it easy to shoot well and the moon clips are a joy for range use. However, I just hate that full length underlug and many times have contemplated cutting it down. IMO it's a useless appendage done purely for styling reasons and it impedes rapid fire shooting.

Agreed Scooter...I just got back from the range with my tack hammer M19-4 which couldn't be lighter and easier to point. It was incredibly accurate...much easier to point than my full lug 6" King Cobra which I just decided I would sell or trade!

Man that 6" KC I had was a freaking boat anchor. I finally got rid of mine because it was too much to carry around. If you were doing just rested shooting w/o hurry up follow-ups it was great, but after falling in lake once with it on it went down the road a week after I fished it out of 20 feet of water.

__________________
Cranky Old Retired USN Guy

Since so very few runs of 5" 686's were offered by Smith, I imagine any one would be a keeper. That said, I would cast a second vote for the PC 686 Light Rail. From a conversation with the PC back in June, only 94 of these had been shipped with orders for two more. These guns are being made with leftover barrels from a foreign gov't contract. My guess is that when these barrels are used up, this model will become just another one of those odd barrel configuration, low output runs that the PC is noted for. Mine is very accurate. The light rail is attached with 3 screws to the bottom of the barrel just ahead of the ejector rod shroud. I suppose you could use the holes to screw on weights to really tune the gun to your tastes. I have mine rigged up with a bipod and 2X scope at the moment. It's a hoot to shoot at "way out there" targets. I would like to see them come up with a 610 in the same 5" barrel configuration. I would think that a moon-clipped 610 would be a better tactical revolver platform. This 686 was originally built to specs for an elite tactical entry unit........so I was told.

tdan would you be kind enough to post a photo of your PC 686 Light Rail so we can see? I don't know if I've ever seen one...mahalo

I think this is the one he has Model 327PD, I have looked this one over several times. Saw one in a gun shop a few months ago, it had a $1200 price tag best I remember. At 35 oz it is still heavy enough to shoot w/o killing on both ends.

__________________
Cranky Old Retired USN Guy

I love the full lug on my 686 with 6 inch barrel

Here is the partial lug 357 I would buy. A model 620 L frame 4" with MSRP of $893 and probably street priced at $700 to $750 range. Now if it only had unfluted cylinder.

__________________
Cranky Old Retired USN Guy

Old Navy, I have that 620. It's the most accurate revolver, or handgun of any type, that I have ever shot off a bench rest with. However, it is more barrel heavy than my older model 67 and I don't group as well with it in rapid fire as I do with the 67. I didn't understand why until I purchased my 610. That gun is so barrel heavy that the problems this causes for rapid fire drills was VERY obvious. The old pencil barrels may not be as accurate off the bench but in a defensive handgun a lower swing weight has some distinctly positive attributes. This may explain why for nearly 80 years that most revolvers carried the least weight possible in the barrel. Bottomline, those old timers knew what they were doing.

BTW, I won't be selling my 610. While it's lousy for rapid fire drills it is a great target gun and nearly as accurate as my 620. It will also be a great Whitetail handgun when loaded with a suitable 10mm round. However, I will be keeping an eye out for a 3 inch 610 because I now know that with the shorter barrel the swing weight will be reduced enough to allow good results in rapid fire. In the meantime I'll keep fighting the mass of my present 610 because it is an effective excercise for gaining strength. As the saying goes "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger". In addition, if I ever become good enough for my personal criteria with the 610, I'll probably be really deadly with my 67.

BTW, my personal criteria is a 4 inch or smaller goup at 30 feet with a 1/2 second interval. With the 67 I can hit a 3 inch group on a good day. With the 610 the best I've managed so far is about 7 inches. So, I have lots of room for improvement. As for the 620, if I am hitting 3 inches with the 67, I'll hit about 4 inches with the 620. So, the 620 isn't bad, it's just not as easy pointing as an older pencil barrel 38.

Kau, thats not it. The 327 is something different. If you do a search for "my stainless family" you will see the performance center, 5" half lug which i referenced. I posted the pictures a while back. Its a beautiful bead blast stainless although the barrel kind of looks like that with the removable rail piece.

I have a 6" 66-6, bought new 9/03 from CDNN at $349 closeout - a steal. It set a standard that even my 12/04 new purchase, the SD 5" h-l 686+, couldn't quite match - with .38s. What a tack driver - and easy 'pointer'. Then - 5/08 - I went to my pusher, sold Ruger money in hand, to buy a 4" - the 620. He was out - but had the new 627 Pro, a value loaded 4" 8-shooter - at $80 more than the 620. The 627 Pro is clearly my all-time favorite .38/.357M. It just feels and points great!



While the SD 5" h-l 686+ came as shown (Also with a V-notch rear sight you can't see!), I added the HiViz front to the 627 Pro - in seconds, as it is spring-loaded - and the Ahrends 'Retro Target' grips, which I love. Not seen in both are my lower effort Wolff springs - and their resultant reliance on my Fed primed homebrews. I keep 50+ moonclips loaded with my wimpy plate pinger 125gr JHPs in .357M Starline cases - easy reloads while I am plinking. None of my .357Ms have ever seen a real '.357M round' - the hottest has been the old FBI loads - .38 +P 158gr LHPSWC Remingtons - HD rounds.

I don't know if it's the two-piece precision crowned barrel in the 627 Pro or not, but it is every bit and more the tack driver the 6" 66 is - and that was my previous 'standard'. Off hand, my 5" JM PC627 V-Comp is probably marginally better - but it has the lightest and smoothest trigger I have ever experienced - a definite aid to grab shooting. Of course, if I had stopped with the 5" h-l 686+, I'd probably have been fine. But... what fun would that have been??

Stainz

kaumheimer...........Do a Google search, and you will find that one of these is currently up for sale on one of the auction sites. Collectorsfirearms(some outfit in Texas) has some really nice pics of one. I'll see if I can take a shot with the bipod set-up and a close-up of the light rail mount. That light rail is a solid machined piece of stainless steel. This is one gun that I would not care to be pistol whipped with. I had never heard of this model until I saw it while browsing in a local gun shop that usually has a good selection of S&W products. Once I had the product number, I went home and called Smith for further info. I went straight back to the shop and plucked it off.