642 Airweight cylinder hard to close

[LadyShooter1]

Greetings,My 642 which I purchased new about 2 years ago and has only been shot 10 times.I took it out the case tonite and installed a set of Uncle Mikes combat grips I come across.I noticed it takes a bit of effort to close the cylinder,not a great deal but more so than my older revolvers which I can close with wrist action alone.I'm not sure what the spring loaded pin in the center of the cylinder is called but it seems to have alot of tension on it.Is this normal on a new gun? My other guns are stainless and nickel plated and rub marks where the cylinder closes are not seen but I can easily see them on the frame of this 642

[Hapworth]

First likeliest culprit is a loose extractor rod. Open the cylinder, put some snap caps or empty cases in the chambers; hold the cylinder and give the extractor rod a gentle turn counterclockwise (they're reverse threaded, so clockwise loosens and counterclockwise tightens). See if that improves the smoothness of the cylinder closing.

When the ejector rod is loose, it lengthens, sometimes causing cylinder binding.

Also, don't wrist flick the cylinder closed -- you'll bend the yoke barrel.

[LadyShooter1]

Ok,empty cases in,I cannot turn the rod with my finger at all

[Florida J Frame]

Try cleaning under the extractor. Just a little crud will bind the cylinder.

[LadyShooter1]

the cylinder spins free,as mentioned it has only been fired 10 times,never carried.Pretty much purchased it and kept it stored in the factory box.I tried to turn the rod but it will not move either way.I pushed the spring loaded pin in and it is stiff,my old 40 year old carry presses in with ease

[TucsonMTB]

A little lubrication on the ejector rod, the part that pushes out the extractor star, may help. Flipping the cylinder closed, like the they sometimes do in the movies, may have bent that rod, which would make it harder to operate.

If you look at the rod while spinning the cylinder, does it wobble as if bent? If not, no worries, try a little lubricant. If it is bent, get it replaced. They are inexpensive.

One last thought for now . . . has anyone unscrewed the knurled knob on the rod to remove the cylinder, possibly to make cleaning easier? If so, did they reverse the rod that engages the frame while putting it back together? The rod has a rounded end, which you should be able to see where it reaches toward the frame. It also has a flat end that should be inside the threaded part and invisible. If they are reversed, the sharp edge of the flat end would dig into the metal of frame and make opening and closing the cylinder difficult.

Remember that the rod has left handed, that is reversed, threads if you need to take it apart to correct anything.

Best of luck!

[LadyShooter1]

Thanks,I'll try to lube it,no flipping on any of my guns except one old cheap SA I've had for many moons "I'd never do that on any other gun I own",nobody has ever done anything to this gun,it has been gently handled and wiped down but I have never oiled it which I need to do even though it has not been shot but just 10 times

[TucsonMTB]

Cool! Don't go too wild and crazy, but a little high quality oil on the parts that move in and out of the center of the cylinder should make it as smooth as your other revolvers.

Or, at least I hope so!

[LadyShooter1]

I hope so,I'll oil it tomorrow and post the outcome.Thanks again

[kaaskop49]

Worse comes to worse, take it to a qualified 'smith, find out what is causing this and let the 'smith correct it. If it's a carry gun, you need to settle the issue so you may tote it with confidence. The above suggestions are tried-and-true answers by VERY knowledgeable folks, but we are only groping without the gun in hand. It's a great gun, best of luck in the new year.

[snubbiefan]

Correct.....drop the "Hollywood Flop". Not likely on a snub-nose but it can lead to bending and extractor-rod on longer barreled guns.

Smith does something that really bugs me and I called them about it once and got a very stupid answer. That pin in the middle of the extractor is the center-pin, which pushes the bolt back into the recoil shield and locks the cylinder front-n-back under center-pin spring pressure. It needs to be strong enough to keep the gun locked under recoil. But, they install the same strength spring in ALL j-frames from 22 thru 357. In an AirLite or Airweight, this only aggravates the pin-trail wear in the recoil shield and there have been numerous pictures of cratered recoil shields posted here on the forum. On a lightweight gun, I usually Taylor a center-pin spring that both allows the cylinder to be closed more easily and put less stress on the recoil shield. I have never shot one open because I lightened the CP spring a bit.

I called Smith once to ask them why they used the same spring for all calibers and explained that IMHO it was not necessary and caused early wear in the pin area of the recoil shield. The rep. told me the reason for the early wear was "because the lightweights were aluminum." I just hung-up the phone.

[TucsonMTB]

Originally Posted by snubbiefan

. . . On a lightweight gun, I usually Taylor a center-pin spring that both allows the cylinder to be closed more easily and put less stress on the recoil shield. I have never shot one open because I lightened the CP spring a bit.

Clever!

Opening and closing my 642-1 is fairly smooth. But, reducing the wear on the recoil shield appeals to me. So . . . how much do you usually remove from the spring? That would be the smaller diameter spring, right?

Yeah, I know . . . for revolver newbies like me, go slowly and maybe buy a spare spring first.

Thank you for the idea, sir!

[shawn mccarver]

That pin needs to be sufficiently "sprung" to avoid the old problem that I would see with the RG or Rohm revolvers, which was that with a 38 Special, when fired, the cylinder would flop right out of the window as teh recoil would move the cylinder locking mechanism forward. One tiny drop of oil is all that center pin needs. Do not overdo the oil. If that does not satisfy you, take it to a qualified gunsmith who can check it for binding. If it is not binding due to a loose rod or crud under the extractor, then there is nothing to fix - use more muscle. Either way, I agree with Alan - if a light drop of oil does not do it, have a professional look it over.

[snubbiefan]

Tucson...if you want to play with this, it's not rocket science. I do agree that you could weaken the center-pin spring force enough to make one shoot-open and I'm not suggesting going that far. There is just no reason to have a pin designed to hold a 44-Magnum together in a 38-special...or 22LR for that matter. The manufacturers over-spring in two areas that come to mind to try and insure they don't get the guns returned for service. Namely, the hammer-spring and center-pin spring.

You will have little invested in this modification, other than your time. All you have to know how to do is remove the extractor rod and ejector from the cylinder. The part number for the center-pin spring is 070630000. This holds true for EVERY jay frame....642, 442, 640...etc. You can call S&W and order couple of these. They may even mail you a couple for free. The last two times I've ordered small parts....they sent them for free. Simply clip a coil off one spare spring and see what the result is. If you want to go further, clip 2 coils off....you get the point. As a last resort, you can even take your center-pin spring down to the Ace Hardware Store and find one the same size only a bit longer for like 60-cents.

You'd likely have to cut the spring half into to approach the point of shooting the gun open. There is another spring at work here, the front locking bolt spring which applies force to the center-pin as well.

Go "feel" some other revolver make...a Rossi or Taurus for example. You will likely notice the center-pin strength is much less than that you will find in your Jay. The same locking mechanism is employed in these revolvers and I don't read or hear a lot about those guns shooting open, even if I won't own one.

Take-it-or-leave-it. You will have your stock center-pin spring to put back in the gun if you need to.

[LadyShooter1]

Tried a tad of Lucas gun oil,made no difference.It has alot of tension on that spring and the frame being alloy does not help,it is cutting a groove...

[Realgunner]

I had a 629 Mountain Gun that I purchased new on which the center pin had a burr which made it bind inside the extractor rod. This can make for hard cylinder opening and/or closing. I suggest sending your 642 back to Smith & Wesson for warranty service.

[LadyShooter1]

I can't visually see nor feel any burrs but this gun's cylinder has been opened less than 15 times since new and I can feel the groove in the frame already

[snubbiefan]

Ladyshooter....it ain't even started yet! I believe there is a forum member on here named Photoman that had a picture of one after a few thousand rounds that looked like the beginnings of the grand canyon developing in the RS. There is simply no way around it in an alloy-framed revolver. That's another reason they say "carry them a lot and shoot them a little". That grove can get much uglier than that and the gun will still function flawlessly. The pin could cut through the outer edge of the shield and it will still function. It's just a cosmetic thing, but I just simply could not stand it. Adjusting the CP spring and even polish the end of the CP while you have it out will help, especially with the closing, but it will always "trail" worse than an all-steel gun.

[TucsonMTB]

Originally Posted by snubbiefan

Tucson...if you want to play with this, it's not rocket science. . . .

Yours are wonderfully complete and insightful instructions, sir. Thank you!

Despite this revolver's "carry a lot and shoot little" design intent, I enjoy shooting this little puppy frequently. I have polished the top of the cylinder stop which seems to have stopped the cylinder ring from growing. So, now this pin's pathway is the only area that seems to be wearing more rapidly than I would like.

With your help, this small project is going to be both fun and satisfying. Thank you again!

[LadyShooter1]

I checked the spring tension on several other .38s of different mfg and the S&W has a great deal more tension.I suppose every company has specific tolerances they go by,I never would had expected the pin to start cutting into my frame.Oh well I guess it's a trade off being lightweight,I still enjoy it either way

[Hapworth]

Originally Posted by LadyShooter1

I never would had expected the pin to start cutting into my frame.

The pins indeed wear a groove into the blast shield; this is normal and smoothes nicely with use.

[Realgunner]

Originally Posted by LadyShooter1

I can't visually see nor feel any burrs but this gun's cylinder has been opened less than 15 times since new and I can feel the groove in the frame already

The burr was inside, and not visible nor could be felt until the center pin was disassembled from the extractor rod.

[TucsonMTB]

Originally Posted by LadyShooter1

Tried a tad of Lucas gun oil,made no difference.It has alot of tension on that spring and the frame being alloy does not help,it is cutting a groove...

If it is any consolation, my 642-1 has easily 600 rounds, or more, through it, not to mention lots of dry firing with the attendant loading and unloading of snap caps, as well as opening closing the cylinder many times while practicing with speed loaders. But, mine does not look very different from your picture.

My guess is that the groove area may work harden or perhaps offer more surface area to the end of the pin once it is established . . . and then the wear slows down. Whatever!

Like you, I feel the lightness is worth a little surface fragility. Life is good.

[LadyShooter1]

Thanks everyone for the help! Happy New Year!