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S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present All NON-PINNED Barrels, the L-Frames, and the New Era Revolvers


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  #1  
Old 01-20-2010, 02:09 PM
revolverrandy revolverrandy is offline
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is it my imagination or do alot of people look down upon and have disrespect for the .38 special?when I was looking for mine thats the vibe I got.kinda like"What do you want with womans gun?"
Many tried talking me into the .357,which I am sure I would enjoy as well,but whats the deal with the .38 special?Is it considered a low power ,wimpy gun by many?
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Old 01-20-2010, 02:13 PM
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The only place the 38 special isn't deadly, is the internet. Regards 18DAI.
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Old 01-20-2010, 02:18 PM
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Those who worship at the altar of muzzle energy often shun the .38 because many HV cartridges with light bullets look superior on paper, compared to say a 9mm.
However, with modern bullets and loads that take advantage of the larger case capacity, the .38 and 9mm standard cartridges have virtually equivalent real-world effectiveness.
Let's face it, compared to my deer rifle, either is rather wimpy in comparison and requires accurate shooting to be effective.

For carry, loads like the Speer SB .357 are a compromise between the .38 and full-power .357, allowing better contol and follow-up than the regular .357 and more punch than the .38.
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Old 01-20-2010, 02:30 PM
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I've never seen anyone who knocked the .38 Special volunteer to be shot with one, even wearing a vest.
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Old 01-20-2010, 02:31 PM
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The 38 Special is one of my favorite all time cartridges. There will always be those who argue in favor of more powerful loads, but the 38 has a very large following of it's own. I think with the development of very good self defense bullets, as well as the old tried and true older ones, the respect for the cartridge is on the rise. The trend seems to be focusing on small, lightweight revolvers such as the j-frames, sp101 etc. Although many can fire the 357 magnum, many people, like me, find the 38 Special to be just the ticket in the smaller revolvers. I have two j-frames, as well as a 3" gp100, and prefer to shoot the 38 Special in them, even though all three are 357's. wyatte

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Old 01-20-2010, 02:42 PM
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I have carried a 38 special for 15 years now. I have never felt out gunned with it. I have never felt that the round was ineffective. The 38 special has been used from 1899-1980's. 80 years of use so it can not be too ineffective
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Old 01-20-2010, 02:45 PM
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I only here a few people talk down the .38 and they are usually people that like semi-autos and big bullets.
I only have 3 hand guns, all chambered in .357mag but I carry .38spl in my daily carry gun and and use .38 for most of my practice.
I only load up .357 when I am going to be carrying my M 28 and I think I might need more penatraition.
other wise the .38+p's out of a K frame is a good match and good for all around carry.
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Old 01-20-2010, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by revolverrandy View Post
is it my imagination or do alot of people look down upon and have disrespect for the .38 special?when I was looking for mine thats the vibe I got.kinda like"What do you want with womans gun?"
Many tried talking me into the .357,which I am sure I would enjoy as well,but whats the deal with the .38 special?Is it considered a low power ,wimpy gun by many?
Buy a .357. That way you always have the option to shoot .38 Special or .357 Magnum at your discretion, and you won't have buyer's remorse.
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Old 01-20-2010, 03:46 PM
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IIRC, Lee H. Oswald killed officer Tippet with a .38 Victory model, rechambered for .38 Special . . . then Jack Ruby killed Oswald with one too a couple of days later. One shot kills too, IIRC.



Ruby was quoted as saying he deliberately shot Oswald in the "gut" with his Colt Detective Special snubbie .38, "just so he'd have to suffer the most pain before he died."

And die Oswald did too . . . although an ambulance was on the premises . . . and although the hospital was not far away. And yes, the pain of a gut shot that turns the intestines into spaghetti sauce is extreme . . . as Oswald instantly found out as he fell to the ground. He probably wished he was dead before he "coded" on 'em.



Yep . . . the wimpy old .38 in a snubby is not a threat to anyone . . . UNLESS they are SHOT with it!

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Old 01-20-2010, 03:51 PM
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I think the short barrel of the snubbies and the lack of velocity/terminal ballistics out of the short barrel coupled with the use of cartridges developed for longer barrels have given the .38 a bad rap.

Use the right ammo, and the .38 is very effective, even from short barrels. I am comfortable carrying my 642 with Speer GD 135gr.
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Old 01-20-2010, 04:10 PM
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Looked down upon? Not by me.

Remember that a shooter's best caliber is the largest one he can put where he needs it every time. A big banger with more power than that is useless if it can't be reliably controlled; the bullet might as well be a feather in a breeze if it doesn't go where it is needed.

The previous comments are on target. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the .38 Special.

By the way, welcome to the forum. Hang around and join the conversation. Lots of good people and good information here.
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Old 01-20-2010, 04:11 PM
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Some guys watch too much TV and too many action movies. The fact is, Dirty Harry aside, an assailant shot with a .22 might fall down dead, or might take your gun from you and make you eat it. An assailant shot with a .45 might fall down dead, or might take your gun from you and make you eat it. Or, anything in between. Handguns stink for self-defense. They're just better than throwing (small) rocks, but (at least in-close) probably not as good as a five iron (ask the Kennedy cousin). Most of the time having a gun is better than not having one, regardless of caliber. If you stay calm, aim carefully and put your bullet where it belongs, you'll win the fight regardless of caliber.
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Old 01-20-2010, 04:27 PM
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I like the .38 Special and not only in snubs. It's a great choice for larger revolvers of the type that were called service revolvers. It's been a lucky cartridge for me. I always fancied myself as a .44 Special fan but the .38 Special has been in on more of my handgunning chores than any other round and always has worked.
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Old 01-20-2010, 04:58 PM
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To me , my stainless model 64 or a 65 four inch heavy barrel , loaded with any decent 38+p HP ammo remains a STD, for a general pourpose handgun. I carried and still carry a 38 revolver off duty. Participated in PPC amtches for years. I see many people at the range looking down at revolvers and making statements like ," Its an old timer, He STILL shoots a revolver. " They can't even keep all their shots on paper at 25 yards. If I REALLY feel that a good 38 revolver is not goo enough, I get my mini-14 or an 870 12 gauge.......
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Old 01-20-2010, 05:03 PM
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Although I have more powerful and maybe prettier guns, as I've gotten older, this old worn on the outside, nicked and dinged model 10 which might not impress some folks, is still tight and shoots where I point it. It is one of my most carried guns nowadays. Loaded with 158 gr LSWCHPs, I believe it will take care of most of reasons I carry a concealed weapon. It's also just plain fun to shoot at the range

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Old 01-20-2010, 05:23 PM
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In 2000-2006 I would shoot my pre-14 38 and my P89 9mm weekly back then ammo prices were great and weekly was very do-able. However a few of my friends would make a few cracks about the rounds probably since I would outshoot them in every way possible way. I'm pretty good at shooting a solid object @ 15yrds and you get to see the round bounce back 1 or 2 feet. Anyway now they usually shoot (in handguns) 38 or 9mm go figure. I used to feel the same way about 22 in a hand gun but I bought one last month.
None the less I stand behind my 642-2 or either one of my 19-4's w/38+p.

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Old 01-20-2010, 05:40 PM
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Unfortunately the vast majority of Americans are ignorant in
regards to the lethality of handguns. We used to be a nation of riflemen and we have lost that monicker also.
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Old 01-20-2010, 05:47 PM
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The only problem with the .38 Special is nobody wants to factory load it to its full potential in modern revolvers. When you load to the lowest common denominator (which is revolvers that are 100 years old) you tend to get the lame performance that nobody respects. And then there are all those nonsense articles in the magazines that proclaim "9mm Beats .38 Special!" The .38 Special is one of the greatest cartridges of all time but because it's so old it needs to be handloaded to reach its full potential. Same thing with two other oldies but goodies, the .45 Colt and .45-70 Gov't.

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Old 01-20-2010, 05:58 PM
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it can be somewhat questionable as a man stopper there are better choices when your life is on the line. if i carried a gun for protection daily it would probably be a short barrel 357. i use a six inch 14-3 for targets and small game or just fun shooting in 38 special. hitting what you aim at is more important than anything else and my 14 does that better than any other handgun i own.
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Old 01-20-2010, 06:09 PM
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I used to look down upon the 38spl, but not anymore. I would feel very well armed with my Model 15 and the right ammo.
The last part is the problem. I agree with David Sinko...most of the ammo from the big factories is pathetic. Just finding the very good +P LSWCHP load is difficult. I refuse to buy the uber expensive Buffalo Bore ammo, or any ammo in 20rd boxes. Handloading is really the way to go with 38spl.
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Old 01-20-2010, 06:14 PM
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No disrespect for the 38 spl here, I carry one daily.
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Old 01-20-2010, 06:36 PM
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I would rather have the 38spl with me than the 1911 in the trunk of my car or gun safe.

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Old 01-20-2010, 07:16 PM
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Why do you care what the "It's a woman's gun" thinkers say? They're probably Cro-Magnons...Me Tarzan...you Jane! Determine your own need, look up the ballistics and decide for yourself. I carry .38 SPL most of the time and my wife all of the time. I really don't know what a "Woman's gun" means anyway. It's versatile and cheap and as others have noted...does the "job."
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Old 01-20-2010, 07:29 PM
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The 38 worked just fine until Elmer Keith and Bill Jordan talked S&W into sumthin' bigger.
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Old 01-20-2010, 08:26 PM
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The poachers up by me kill way too many deer with .22 long rifle for me to not respect the .38 special. 38 has similar velocity to a .22 plus it fires a heavier bullet that can be made to expand more than a .22 can.
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Old 01-20-2010, 08:39 PM
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I'm supprised he got thru this much time without one of the ladies chiming in. A number of them here have no problems carrying and handling .44 mags, .357s etc.
But going past that, I don't think you'd want to be standing in front of a .38 in a social encounter.
The main thing is shot placement, as I'm sure you'll hear. A .44 thru the love handles won't do what a .38 thru the forehead will.

Welcome to the forum otherwise.
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Old 01-20-2010, 09:32 PM
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Default I love my 38 spl

I am convinced after doing a little research that the 38+P is a manstopper. It has proven itself at NYPD and at LAPD in their backup guns. Specifically, the Speer short barrel round. I know that their are other good rounds besides the Speer product as well. Does well through barriers and into gel out of snub revolvers. I carry these rounds everyday in my 442-2.
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Old 01-20-2010, 09:33 PM
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I have a ton of firearms in my house but I only keep one of them loaded. My S&W model 64 w/ 2" barrel. Seems like a lot of people that don't know anything get it in their head that they need to repeat whatever they hear so they watch a movie and get it in their head that the .38 is inferior. Those are the kind of people that shouldn't be allowed an opinion because you never know what is going to come out of their mouth. Shoot a .38 and lay your concerns to rest.
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Old 01-20-2010, 09:47 PM
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Hi:
4" .38spl revolver w/158gr LSWC-HP- Self Defense /it don't get any deadly
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Old 01-20-2010, 11:02 PM
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To me, anybody that dis's the 38 spl has likely spent more time watching Miami Vice and reading gun rags than trigger pulling time. The 38 is my favorite "DO all" cartridge. I have NO doubt it will kill since I shoot more than I read.

FWIW, I'd be more afraid of an old man with a model 10 than a young buck with a sig 40 and two mags. Chances are the old man knows how to use that 38 decisively!
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Old 01-20-2010, 11:50 PM
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the .38 special is a fine cartridge and very accurate with my S&W 64.
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Old 01-21-2010, 12:03 AM
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Quote:
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Buy a .357. That way you always have the option to shoot .38 Special or .357 Magnum at your discretion, and you won't have buyer's remorse.
See what I mean lol
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Old 01-21-2010, 12:05 AM
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I carry .38 +P+ loads in my .357, I never feel outgunned with an extra speed strip or 2. I feel no need to drive a "big" truck either
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Old 01-21-2010, 12:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCWilson View Post
Looked down upon? Not by me.

Remember that a shooter's best caliber is the largest one he can put where he needs it every time. A big banger with more power than that is useless if it can't be reliably controlled; the bullet might as well be a feather in a breeze if it doesn't go where it is needed.

The previous comments are on target. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the .38 Special.

By the way, welcome to the forum. Hang around and join the conversation. Lots of good people and good information here.


I'll probably have a good share or questions.
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Old 01-21-2010, 12:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scotsbrae View Post
Why do you care what the "It's a woman's gun" thinkers say? They're probably Cro-Magnons...Me Tarzan...you Jane! Determine your own need, look up the ballistics and decide for yourself. I carry .38 SPL most of the time and my wife all of the time. I really don't know what a "Woman's gun" means anyway. It's versatile and cheap and as others have noted...does the "job."
I don't really "care" what they say.i can sense an attitude in them and was just curious as to what reasons there is one and why it is so
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Old 01-21-2010, 12:26 AM
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I like the 38 the best myself, and it is a man stopper. I think most think that being able to shoot more than one round it the only way to go. Just like a deer rifle, everyone wants a fancy cal to hunt with, they go out in the back woods and run short of rounds and go to the country store and all they have is 308 or 30-06 next to the 38 specials .
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Old 01-21-2010, 12:56 AM
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I have more .38's than any other caliber. They are fairly cheap to reload and fun to shoot, what's not to like?
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Old 01-21-2010, 01:52 AM
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You have to watch out for internet and even gun shop advice. This is a good site, but some others are full of armchair Rambos who think anything less than a machine gun is ineffective. People who know something realize that 38 special is plenty, provided a person knows what to do with it. Looking at the Oswald picture calls to memory all those people over the decades who have been sent to the morgue over a 38 special round at even snub nose velocities.
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Old 01-21-2010, 01:59 AM
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I'm not a ballistics expert but the 38 special is not a wimpy round, and I suspect many that rely on a 357 revolver for self defense actually have them loaded with 38's or 38+p's to lessen muzzle flash and recoil. That being said, I prefer 357 revolvers when size isn't a factor, because it gives me the flexibility to use 357, 38+p, and 38 specials. Also, if I shoot nothing but 38 specials out of it, I would suspect that it would hold up better than a revolver that wasn't beefed up to handle the 357. Also they are just cool.
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Old 01-21-2010, 02:19 AM
axhoaxho axhoaxho is offline
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I think with modern ammos, like the Gold Dot .38 Special +P 135g Short Barrel rounds, it can provide very adequate performance for self defense.

Regards,
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Old 01-21-2010, 02:27 AM
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I carried .38 spl loads in my .357 for over 29 years. They always did the job for me. I became more impressed with the round about 10 years ago when my department started issuing +P+ treasury loads. If ya missed, the blast would knock them over, or make them duck! Seriously, some .38 rounds these days are as effective as .357's.

Max
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Old 01-21-2010, 02:27 AM
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I think the .38 Special is seriously underrated. A lot of the factory loads don't take advantage of the .38 Specials ability, but some do. Luckily for the handloader the sky is the limit.

A .38 Special can push a 148 grain Wadcutter at 550 fps or a light fast bullet over 1100 fps all within the relm of pressure limits. On the other hand, with Uncle Elmer as my guide I've pushed a 173 grain SWC to 1200 fps out of a 4" revolver in .38 Special brass safely. There isn't much the .38 Special can't do, except impress the armchair commandos and internet rambos out there.
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Old 01-21-2010, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by fighter62 View Post
To me , my stainless model 64 or a 65 four inch heavy barrel , loaded with any decent 38+p HP ammo remains a STD, for a general pourpose handgun. I carried and still carry a 38 revolver off duty. Participated in PPC amtches for years. I see many people at the range looking down at revolvers and making statements like ," Its an old timer, He STILL shoots a revolver. " They can't even keep all their shots on paper at 25 yards. If I REALLY feel that a good 38 revolver is not goo enough, I get my mini-14 or an 870 12 gauge.......
this has really been the case for me also. i show up with my .38. everyone laughs. then we start shooting. half of them could hit the target as well with rocks as their auto. the old .38 is very easy to hit with, never jams, never dumps it's magazine. i noticed both of my combat pistol instructors tote 642s off the range.
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Old 01-21-2010, 02:52 PM
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Fun to shoot good stopping power with the loads stated above. I have no complaints and have one with me daily in my vehicle.
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Old 01-21-2010, 03:38 PM
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is it my imagination or do alot of people look down upon and have disrespect for the .38 special?when I was looking for mine thats the vibe I got.kinda like"What do you want with womans gun?"
Many tried talking me into the .357,which I am sure I would enjoy as well,but whats the deal with the .38 special?Is it considered a low power ,wimpy gun by many?
It's not your imagination. There are folks who simply do not care for a .38 Special in the same way that there are folks who do not care for a 9mm or perhaps a .357... etc. Sometimes such a view is based on concerns about lack of power, etc. Sometimes persons express disdain for the .38 Special because they consider that it is to old fashioned or else it does not make enough noise or make a big enough hole in the target.

A well made revolver chambered in .38 Special is among one of the most accurate and enjoyable handguns anyone could ever hope to own. In utility, accuracy, and usable power it is sufficient to meet most of the needs of the vast majority of those who would want to own and use a handgun. It is not stylish. It is plebeian. The .38 Special will endure until the last curtain call of history is done and everything is packed away.
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Old 01-21-2010, 03:42 PM
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I never felt unarmed with a .38 Special. The power factor isn't the determining factor, only hits count in the real world.
Russ
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  #47  
Old 01-21-2010, 03:55 PM
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the ole 38 special has sent alot of good and bad guys home too the old country, i have no dought many more to follow, i love the 38 special mine is super accurate!
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Old 01-21-2010, 03:59 PM
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I have two .357s and 99% of the ammo used is .38spl. because it is a pleasure to shoot (also more cost effective). it is easier on my youngest daughter to control her shots. plus my grandfather was in law enforcement for years on end and his primary & back up were always .38 spl. so yes i believe in them too.
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Old 01-21-2010, 04:08 PM
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As I've said before, my 642 .38 Special is the second favorite thing I keep in my pants. I can put all five in the kill zone in under three seconds with Speer 135 short barrel rounds, and that's a darn sight better than most shooters can do with a .357 flamethrower. Maybe not as fast as a 9mm, but its lighter, hides much better, is completely reliable, and the round is just as effective, if not more so.

I believe that those who denigrate the old .38 don't have a firm grip of all of its advantages.
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Old 01-21-2010, 04:39 PM
Rule 303 Rule 303 is offline
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Shot Placement is the King, Caliber is the Queen, Capacity is the Prince, the Number of rounds you put into the Target is the Princess and the quality of the Gun is the Joker.

The .38spl will kill a person DRT if the shooter does his part.

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