calling 617 owners for help with decision

[autopilot118]

So I’m looking to get a 617 and wanted to get some advice to help pick the correct one. I did take some time to look around here as I am new to S&W (currently only own a LCP and a p226 .40) but just had a couple questions that I didn’t find the answer to. First what I plan to use it for is mostly target (no competitions though) and maybe some fend off the occasional squirrel. What I’m looking for the pistol to do is be as accurate as possible even up to 50-100 yards (if possible) and I do plan to put a scope on it. I have already decided to find a non locked model, the main reason I want a wheel gun is for the simplicity and that they are more reliable than say a Ruger MarkII. So now for the questions, if only the Philadelphia area had better gun ranges that I could rent and test for my self…

1) Is the 6” barrel that much more accurate than the 4”? I don’t mind having the balance a little off if it means much tighter groups at 50+ yards (and I am referring to bench rested, I’ll have to deal with my shaky hands myself).

2) Is it possible to get a new non-IL? If not when was the last year they made the non-IL so I know where to start my used gun search.

3) I read on here a couple comments about the 6 shooters being better than the 10 shooters, is that people just being picky? I like the idea of the extra rounds but not if it takes away from accuracy or reliability.

thanks in advanced for the help

[Smile]

I've owned the 6 incher for years now.
As far as accuracy is concerned, I would not say it is more accurate than the 4 inch tube.
It's just easier to aim with because of the longer radius.
Guess it should not be of a major concern for you since you plan to put a glass on it.
Hope it may help.

[lafayne]

I agree with Smile. I have a couple of 4 inchers - one with an Ultradot 30. I also have the 6 inch. The 4 inch and 6 inch are both very accurate. For steady holding in the field, I would probably opt for the 6 inch.

[Rolan_Kraps]

Autopilot,

No "new" guns are being made without the Internal lock.

I've not heard or seen anything to say that a 10 shot is less reliable or accurate than a 6 shot.

[Stainz]

I like the 4" as a dedicated plinker. I put a green HiViz on the front - great aid to plinking. I had my fill of 100yd plinking with a 'big' Ruger 6.9" MKII with a scope - sold it to help pay for my planned 4" 617 purchase 9/08 - my best expenditure considering the cost/fun ratio. The key is to get a 617 sooner than later. I like wood grips - and the DS-10 Speedloader and x6 loading block can keep your fire rate up - if you get someone else to keep said loading block full!



Oh - and do as you will re the S&W IL. It's inclusion hasn't kept me from buying some nice new revolvers over the last 7.5 yr. The majority of my meager S&W collection is so equipped. Don't you think that S&W would have been in bankruptcy years ago ove lawsuits if the IL really was a problem? Mine are always unlocked - the key is in the box. I don't like it's looks, either, but I didn't like paying for locks - or locking plastic boxes a dull Swiss Army knife could gain entry to in seconds, either. The main thing... get yourself a 617! Below is a 6" S&W sporting a 2x28 Weaver handgun on a Weigand rail:



The revolver is a 6" N-frame - a 629 .44 Magnum - a little bit larger than a 6" 617. The scope, rings, and rail would be the same. Unwieldy on that large revolver, I reverted it back to iron sights in days. I could try it on the 4" 617 - but why? It's a great plinker as-is. YMMV.

Good luck!

Stainz

[Wee Hooker]

I own both and use them in a variety of ways so I'll offer a couple of thoughts that havent been covered.

Accuracy between the two using a scope will likely be a wash. If using iron sights then the 6" would have the edge because of sight radius.

The 6" vs 4" is going to give you a bit more velocity at the muzzle and more energy on the target. If your talking about killing critters or knocking over steel @ past 50 yds ( which is not easy), it might be a consider.

The 6" will give you better options to rest, grip or shoot from the creedmore position for longer shots. ( We shoot creedmore (off our backs, with muzzle against leg) at 100 yds for rimfire silhouette all the time.)

IMHO, if your willing to give up a little balance in the name of versatility, then I think the 6" version is the way to go ( and will be easier to find.)

Note; While any of the 617's can be scoped it's nice to know that the 617-1 and beyond came drilled and tapped for a mount from the factory. Makes for a slicker , more stable mount.

hth

p.s. While I believe a 617 is a VERY sweet firearm and a great choice for a .22 handgun, don't under rate the Ruger MK II/III you mention. Very capable, accurate and well built pistols at a very attractive price. I own three and have only had rare "reliability" issues with mine with junk ammo or extreme cold weather ( which I avoid anyway:-). The new MK III's also come with a scope mount included.

[Sub sailor]

I purchased a 6" 617-6 less than a year ago, and I shoot it more than any other gun that I own. Mine is a 10 shot and many people prefer the no-lock versions, but I don't think that you can get the 10 shot without the lock. If you want a non internal lock, you will probably have to get a six shot.

I also purchased a DS-10 speed loader (shown in the photos posted by Stainz) which is wonderful! I haven't handled a 4" version so I can't comment on the differences in balance, but I really like the balance of the 6". The accuracy of the 10 shot is awesome, and I don't think you will be disappointed with whatever version you select. I just wish I had spent the money and purchased a 617 sooner. Don't put off buying one, once you get it you will wonder why you waited so long!

[autopilot118]

Thank you all for the quick replies, it really helps out to get such genuine responses. I feel pretty confident about sticking to my original thought of getting the 6” and now may consider just ordering a brand new one and not worrying about the IL (it’s not a self defense weapon anyway). I’m still a week or two off from laying down the coin so I will be checking back for any further posts that may offer something not covered yet. Also what year did they start putting the IL on just incase I still decide not to get new, I’ve always been a “KISS” type person and don’t want to have something that may go bad later down the road.

Again you guys are great, thanks for the good information

[RidgwayCO]

The no-lock version with the 10-shot stainless steel cylinder is the Model 617-4. They were made with 4", 6", and 8-3/8" barrels.

They come on the market from time to time, but are usually priced at a premium to the IL versions. For a non-SD, light recoiling gun, I don't think the IL really matters. I personally don't like the IL because just looking at it makes my blood pressure go up...

[maxxpower]

Don't let the IL get in the way of your decision. I have 5 S&Ws all with the IL and it hasn't affected my shooting or my life in any way. I don't see what the fuss is about.

Enjoy the 617... I love mine.

[Bullseye Smith]

I would get the 6 inch, that is the way to go.

[JoeS]

I had a six inch and currently have a four inch, both six shooters. IMO, the six inch is just too darned heavy to do anything except go to the range with and its unnecessarily heavy for that. Those little .22 holes in the cylinder and barrel just don't hog much metal out.
I would want the 4 inch. Even more than a 617 though i would want a Model 18 or 17, in my mind both are better balanced and easier to manage.

[bellevance]

I have the 617-6 10-shot in 6-inch, with the DS speedloader, and I love mine. It complements my 686+ quite nicely--same weight and balance.

I also have a beautiful K-22 5-screw (1947) and a Model 41 A-series. For some reason I shoot the 617 better than either of those--and a lot more often. You'll love the 617.

(I never think about the lock.)

[autopilot118]

Just wanted to bump this incase anyone else wanted to comment, and also any opinions on the 8 1/2"? Seem just a bit too long for easy carry when "hunting" but I just handled a 6" 686 the other day and it seemed shorter than I expected. I mainly ask about the 8 1/2" as for more options for aiming and possible better punch at the longer ranges, but I fairly set on the 6" as a compromise for range and trasportablity.

thanks as allways

[.460V & XVR Magnum Man]

I started with the 6" and like the guys were saying, a bit heavy. But after a .460V 5" & XVR 8 3/8" .460 the weight wasn't an issue. It was so fun to shoot, I just had to get the 4 inch to make a "pair". As for accuracy and just an all around good intermission gun from the bigger calibers you can't go wrong. I have the DS-10 speedloader coming also, you will need one. Both are accurate and smooth and I was really impressed with the "big" gun feel without the recoil. So If you can't decide get one and before you know it you will get the other one. Went thru half a brick of Remington and enjoyed every shot. Hope this helps you with your decision, they are really a great shooting little gun in a big gun frame....good luck!

[kennyb]

i have the 4" 617,10 shot with IL...has a truglo red dot on it...shoots like a laser!i just had it at the range tuesday...i wouldn't let the lock affect my decision...fun gun!

[BrianE]

I shot my 617 4" for the first time Tuesday and I love it... My friend has the 6" but I feel its a little heavy....

[Ace-3]

The 4 or 6 inch guns are both very accurate revolvers. Here are several questions that you may want to conceder. If you intend to use this as a practice gun for gun handling drills the 4 inch gun may be more practical. It comes out of the holster a little faster and for basic drills will mimic a larger caliber gun that you may want to carry in the future. The six inch gun will give you more sight radius with iron sights if you plan to put an electric sight on it will not matter. I have both and find I shoot the 4 inch a lot more. As far a six or 10 shots once again I have both and shoot the 10 way more often. The only problem with the 10 shot is that in DA mode you really chug though the ammo. But that’s what it’s all about, shooting. One more thing it will not be your last 22 revolver so don’t sweat it to much. Best.

[raincitywheel]

Regarding the 6 round vs 10 round M617's, the 6 rounder feels more like it's larger caliber brothers. The 10 round cylinder doesn't have to rotate very far so it locks up a little sooner in the trigger stroke. I love my 4 inch 10 shot. But, I'd but a 4 inch 6 shot in a minute if I could find one.

Don't sweat the lock. It's a target gun not a defensive gun. If it fails so what? Take the lock out if you want. There are instructions on this forum.

[autopilot118]

ok not to drag this thread on forever but I like to be as educated as possible when investing larger sums of coin. I have done a little research on the MIM parts that now strike fear in my future purchace. If I buy new would I beable to replace the few things that are MIM or should I look for a -1 through -4 (not too worried about the thumb release, assuming they use the same parts as the 686).

I'm still semi regreating my sig P226 purchase, now wish I had done more research and got a P229 (yes I am that fussy lol) and I was researching for 2 months before I baught that one...

again thanks for any help

[alphabrace]

Bought my 4" last october from Budsgunshop.com for $652
Very happy with it other than the weak engraving.

[deuterij]

I know how that fussiness goes. I have OCD and researched about 6 straight months before deciding on an HDTV.

Regarding the 617, everything I have heard has been positive. I have a 6" regular model 17 and love it. If you are not carrying it, I believe 6" is the optimal barrel length (considering sight radius and muzzle velocity) for a target gun. I shot my 17 last weekend and it was a pleasure. It was supremely accurate and had the recoil of an air gun.

I hear mixed opinions about MIM. Apparently MIM parts can be made closer to final dimensions than forged, but I still think forged is strongest. Still, I have never heard of a S&W MIM trigger or hammer breaking. I once had an old non-S&W gun whose hammer fractured when I fired it. The thumb portion just snapped right off from the impact inertia when the hammer dropped against its stop.

I doubt you can go wrong with any 617.

[scooter123]

I just picked up a bargain 617 yesterday. Haven't shot it yet but bought a brick of 22LR with it and am looking forward to this weekend.

Barrel length choice is mainly a matter on what you intend to do with your 617. If you want a revolver that will hone your skills for action shooting, the 4 inch version will prove to be a better choice for rapid fire practice. It will have less swing weight and be more nimble in the hand. If you want a target and squirrel gun, the 6 inch will provide a bit more muzzle velocity and a bit flatter trajectory. In terms of accuracy, it will be pretty much a wash if you scope it.

As for the lock, with the low recoil of the recoil of the 22 in a gun this heavy, it won't ever self activate. That lock is mainly been an issue with the 12 to 15 ounce Airweights. Quite simply, the inertia of the flag can cause it to "stand in place" in a revolver with a very high rate of muzzle flip. That is something that just won't happen with a 617. In addition, that lock can be a handy way to lock the gun up when visiting family or friends with small children.

PS; I have a P229 Elite Stainless and it's a great semi. However, IMO the P226 is every bit as good. If your having problems with the DA trigger on your Sig, spend a couple of months shooting your 617 DA only, it will make that Sig easy to shoot well. Nothing builds trigger control like practicing with a DA revolver.

[Holster]

I'll echo that you won't go wrong with any 617. But just to confuse you, I sold mine a week after bringing home a nice K-22, with never any regret.

Given that you're not sure about the lock or MIM and admit to being fussy, just search the auction sites for the next month to get a feel for prices/condition of the older ones then buy a nice one.

[autopilot118]

Originally Posted by scooter123

PS; I have a P229 Elite Stainless and it's a great semi. However, IMO the P226 is every bit as good. If your having problems with the DA trigger on your Sig, spend a couple of months shooting your 617 DA only, it will make that Sig easy to shoot well. Nothing builds trigger control like practicing with a DA revolver.

Oh I love the trigger from my Sig, its the size when I carry it that I wish I had went for the P229. From what I gather the 1/2 shorter barrel and smoother base plate make all the difference to not print, drawl and general comfort.

[valkyriekl]

Originally Posted by autopilot118

ok not to drag this thread on forever but I like to be as educated as possible when investing larger sums of coin. I have done a little research on the MIM parts that now strike fear in my future purchace. If I buy new would I beable to replace the few things that are MIM or should I look for a -1 through -4 (not too worried about the thumb release, assuming they use the same parts as the 686).

I'm still semi regreating my sig P226 purchase, now wish I had done more research and got a P229 (yes I am that fussy lol) and I was researching for 2 months before I baught that one...

again thanks for any help

You can replace the trigger with any forged K/L/N trigger (my 617-4 above has had its MIM trigger replaced with a forged .312" smooth "Combat" trigger), and you can replace the MIM thumbpiece with any other thumbpiece (I happen to like the shape of the new-style thumbpieces, so I left it as-is).

You won't be able to replace the MIM hammer with a forged one, as they are completely different designs.

617-0, -1, and -2 nominally had forged hammers and triggers, though I believe the thumbpieces on the -1 and -2 were the new-style MIM. S&W started shipping the later -2s with MIM triggers (and stainless steel cylinders; most -2s had aluminum alloy cylinders). -3 is when they changed the lockwork to use MIM hammers; -4 was the 10-shot cylinder version with MIM parts. -5 was the 6-shot MIM hammer/trigger/thumbpiece variant with internal lock, and -6 is the current production with MIM hammer/trigger/thumbpiece and internal lock with a 10-shot cylinder.

[james56]

Heres my M617 love it and cant wait to find out about the new one coming on the market soon with the extra 22wm cylinder hope they will fit the cylinders to fit the older M617 cause I want one.
I remember when everyone complained about the airbags in new automobile's streering wheels, how ugly, I even said it, and there still here and didnt keep many from not bying them automobile's, same goe's for IL.

[surfdog76]

Originally Posted by james56

"... cant wait to find out about the new one coming on the market soon with the extra 22wm cylinder...."

Hadn't heard that one yet... Interesting!

A couple other things to consider:

- Some states require a 6" barrel for hunting.
- If you'll be shooting mostly SA, the 6" 6-shot featured a Target Trigger and Target Hammer, nice 'upgrades' that the 10-shot versions do not include. Another plus is that if you go used, it's likely to have a much smoother trigger than a new one. Remember: Lifetime warranty and S&W covers shipping both ways.
- Also consider; The 686 is the 617's Big Brother. It's very close in size and weight and the two make a GREAT matching pair. If a 686 is in your future, consider what barrel length would be best for it (perhaps 4" for HD, IDPA, etc), and get the same barrel length for the 617.

Perhaps the best answer is... Why choose??? Get one of each... By Golly, you deserve it !!!

[james56]

yep!! in some of the Rag's out now but i didnt buy it to read about, wife was in a hurry

[Camster]

Quote: "Heres my M617 love it and cant wait to find out about the new one coming on the market soon with the extra 22wm cylinder hope they will fit the cylinders to fit the older M617 cause I want one. "

If such a critter was to come out,it would be a 648 with an aux lr cylinder,same idea as the earlier generations of Smith convertibles.
Doubtful that they would sell a mag cylinder to those looking to add one to a 617,as 22 magnum guns use a different bore diameter.

[PMRet]

Originally Posted by surfdog76

The 686 is the 617's Big Brother. It's very close in size and weight and the two make a GREAT matching pair. If a 686 is in your future, consider what barrel length would be best for it (perhaps 4" for HD, IDPA, etc), and get the same barrel length for the 617.

What he said...

[james56]

Originally Posted by Camster

Quote: "Heres my M617 love it and cant wait to find out about the new one coming on the market soon with the extra 22wm cylinder hope they will fit the cylinders to fit the older M617 cause I want one. "

If such a critter was to come out,it would be a 648 with an aux lr cylinder,same idea as the earlier generations of Smith convertibles.
Doubtful that they would sell a mag cylinder to those looking to add one to a 617,as 22 magnum guns use a different bore diameter.

Its out in the Mag's now

[autopilot118]

well it looks like have I have made up my mind, I will be spending some time looking for a 617-1 6 shot with the 6" barrel. I thank everyone for all the help and info, and if anyone happens to be looking to rid of one I live neer the Philadelphia, PA area shoot me a private message (I will also make a post in the WTB section).

Thanks again you guys are great!

[surfdog76]

Great choice... and Good Luck on the search!

The 617-1 will give you everything your looking for; 'pre-lock', factory D&T, TT/TH, plus exceptional accuracy (thumbs up)! When I received my 617-5 6" 6-shot, I was disappointed with it's first trip to the range. It emitted excessive hot lead through the cylinder gap and accuracy was lackluster. A call to S&W Service solved that... Sent it in (free overnight shipping) and they reset the timing and cut the forcing cone. Excellent service, and the second trip to the range was pure pleasure!

Still like to follow pricing for the fun of it. For reference, here's a couple recent sales: $450 and $790. Why the big range? No clue (???)

Revolvers For Sale - SMITH WESSON 617 SS 6 INCH - Auction: 9535209 (Ended 01/18/2010, 18:00:23 PST)

Smith & Weson S&W 617-1 22LR Excellent in box : Revolvers at GunBroker.com

[PMRet]

Originally Posted by surfdog76

Still like to follow pricing for the fun of it. For reference, here's a couple recent sales: $450 and $790. Why the big range? No clue (???)

Revolvers For Sale - SMITH WESSON 617 SS 6 INCH - Auction: 9535209 (Ended 01/18/2010, 18:00:23 PST)

Smith & Weson S&W 617-1 22LR Excellent in box : Revolvers at GunBroker.com

Reminds me of those beer commercials, "Too Light, Too Heavy".