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S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present All NON-PINNED Barrels, the L-Frames, and the New Era Revolvers


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Old 02-16-2010, 06:04 PM
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Question .357 magnums shooting .357 magnums

Hey folks,
I am a bit confused over all the talk about the different 357 mag. loads that should or could be shot through my model 65-4 4". Through this forum I have determined it to be a 1990 model. When I bought the gun, the only 357 ammo they had were UMC 125 gr. jacketed soft pts. Those rounds really roared and had significant recoil as well. Then I bought some WWB 110 gr. jacketed hollow pts. marked personal protection and they seemed very light weight by comparison to the UMC's. I have read in several articles that these WWB 110's can damage the forcing cone at the 6 o'clock position. Is this really the case? I keep my guns spotless. I clean and inspect them after every shooting event, which would probably not exceed 20 rnds. I currently have 2 new boxes of these WWB's and hate to toss them if they are not a threat to the well being of my pistol. What .357 mag. round wold be considered to be "safely" shot in my Smith? Seems to me that a S&W handgun should be able to shoot the rounds it was designed to shoot, and do so without failure.

Thank you
Gordon.
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Old 02-16-2010, 06:29 PM
Gulf Coast Snapperhead Gulf Coast Snapperhead is offline
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Search ( K-frames 357 ) When they started making 357 in a k-frame the standard bullet weight was 158 grains. The lighter bullets are shorter, this led to more hot gases and flame on the forcing cones. I shoot heavy bullets. Search around, there are alot of helpful post here..
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Old 02-16-2010, 06:38 PM
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There are a lot of us out here that will take your 110 gr rounds. I have two Rugers that eat them up. I am a big S&W guy, but I watch what I put through all of my K frames. The Security Six and SP101 will shoot anything that you put into them. Let me know. In either case, I wouldn't just toss them. That is good money down the drain.
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Old 02-16-2010, 07:02 PM
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Your model 65 was design to shoot 158gr ammo at about 1100 FPS. I have a model 66 and I shoot ammo that is higher than 140gr and between 1100 FPS and 1250 FPS. This is with a 4 inch barrel like yours. You can probably get away shooting 110gr stuff but I would shoot about 20 rounds and that's it for a range session. You can shoot 357 ammo in a K frame magnum like yours but watch the ammo. Stay with the above recommendation and keep the forcing cone clean as well as the top strap area.
Good luck,
roaddog28

Last edited by roaddog28; 02-16-2010 at 07:05 PM.
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Old 02-16-2010, 10:57 PM
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I would add that it being a fixed sighted revolver you will find the POI of the lighter bullets way off and not much you can do compensate outside of "Kentucky Windage".
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Old 02-16-2010, 11:16 PM
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For the most part, the issues are with regular to heave usage of the light projectiles by folks that shoot often. Police qualifying quarterly plus practice for example.

On the average, K-frame 357 Magnums will last a lifetime of Magnum shooting for the normal user. You have two boxes, 100 rounds, you can shoot that every year for as long as you own the firearm and the odds are that you will never have an issue. Odds are 500 rounds a year is a non-issue.

When I worked the range, I shot my primary firearm at least 50 rounds every night. That is too much for a K-frame 357 Magnum.

Yes, the 125s and 110s will erode the forcing cone faster than 140s, 158s or 180s.

Even so, this is not a catastrophic failure that is going to blow the gun apart an embed cylinder and barrel pieces in the ceiling. A crack builds slowly. Finding one would simply mean a barrel change.

This is one of those issues that the Internet has blown way out of proportion to what happens in the real world. Remember that this Urban Legend starts back in 1955 when Bill Jordan convinced S&W to chamber the K-frames for the 357 Magnum. In the 55 years since then, metallurgy has improved. S&W has evolved along with that. The materials used in 1955 are inferior to the materials that your revolver was manufactured from. As evidence of that improvement in material strength you just have to look at the new breed of tiny J-frame 357 Magnums, even with alloy frames that weight in under 12 ounces, that came on the scene 14 years ago.

I am sure I will get flamed for daring to imply that the old guns are inferior to anything new.
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Old 02-17-2010, 04:12 PM
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I generally don't shoot lighter than 158 gr. magnums from my K-frame 66 and I seldom shoot even those from that gun. I have heavier guns (686, 27) that absorb the recoil a lot better than does the relatively light 66. That having been said, I wouldn't worry about occasionally putting a box of even light magnums through your 65.

The gun being a fixed sight gun, however, its POA/POI is probably set for the 158 gr. rounds. Lighter rounds fly faster and hit lower. I occasionally fire 125 gr. magnums from my 686 and 27. I've noticed that at 10 yards these screamers hit about 1 1/2" below my POA. Lower than that at 25 yards.
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Old 02-17-2010, 05:36 PM
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i can only speak from personal experience. i have fired thousands of 125 and 110gr hot hand loads out of a model 66 and 19 without a problem or damage to the forcing cone.
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Old 02-17-2010, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by pownal55 View Post
i can only speak from personal experience. i have fired thousands of 125 and 110gr hot hand loads out of a model 66 and 19 without a problem or damage to the forcing cone.
The issues weren't just to the forcing cone. There was flame cutting to the top strap, and development of excessive end shake. Those problems were well documented in the 1970's.

The stainless steel models were heat treated differently, and had some changes made to the frame to compensate for these problems.
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Old 02-17-2010, 08:23 PM
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You are right, dennis and i repaired quite a few of my k frames as well as a couple of n frames with those ailments usually with a complete rebuild. couldn't do much about the flame cut, that stayed.
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Old 02-18-2010, 11:35 AM
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I shoot 158gr mag. rounds with all my K-frame magnums. My 65-5 3" loves 'em! That said, I more often shoot various .38spl and +P rounds.
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Old 02-18-2010, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colt_saa View Post
The materials used in 1955 are inferior to the materials that your revolver was manufactured from.
Sorry colt_saa but that is just not factually true. And the fact that S&W makes a J-frame 357 Magnum doesn't mean it's a good idea or that they will hold up.

I'm willing to bet 98%-99% of the J-frame Magnum owners never fire more than a cylinder of magnums through those guns if that much. I have personally seen more than one student in my CCW classes fire the first round or two and quit until they got some 38 Specials. I'm also willing to bet a steady diet of Magnum round, no matter the bullet wieght, will lead to early failure of any of those magnum J-frames.

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Old 02-18-2010, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave T View Post
Sorry colt_saa but that is just not factually true. And the fact that S&W makes a J-frame 357 Magnum doesn't mean it's a good idea or that they will hold up.

I'm willing to bet 98%-99% of the J-frame Magnum owners never fire more than a cylinder of magnums through those guns if that much. I have personally seen more than one student in my CCW classes fire the first round or two and quit until they got some 38 Specials. I'm also willing to bet a steady diet of Magnum round, no matter the bullet wieght, will lead to early failure of any of those magnum J-frames.

Dave
Dave,
You can not possibly believe and state with a clear conscience that S&W has ignored the last 55 years of metallurgical, production and technical advancements and is still using the same materials and techniques that were in place in 1955. Of course S&W firearms have become stronger and more durable over the years as advancements are integrated into the manufacturing process.

I apologize to the OP for straying off topic here........

More than 75% of the people that I know who own J-Magnums shoot magnums out of them. A good 25% shoot Magnums exclusively. My own 340PD has had more than 5000 357 Magnum rounds put through it and 0 38 Specials. I have 10,000 - 15,000 full power magnum rounds through all of my J-magnums combined. One of our fellow forum members has more than 7000 through his 340PD so far.



BTW, as an Instructor and Armorer myself, I know many hundreds of owners of J-magnums. I regularly recommend the J-Magnum as a pocket/purse off duty or backup firearm. I have been shooting J-magnums since they came out more than 14 years ago.

I have no doubt that a novice shooter firing a 357 magnum round from a J-frame revolver would be seriously intimidated by the experience. Only a foolish instructor would allow such a event to occur. Something like this could cause severe flinching in a novice or even worse, turn them off to shooting/concealed carry altogether. Part of a good instructor's job is to determine the student's level of skill, experience and exposure to firearms before he/she is allowed to fire a single shot. Then the instructor is responsible to make sure that he/she does not grossly exceed their level/capability during training. As an Instructor for civilians as well as Law Enforcement, I maintain an inventory of model 17s, 14s, 19/66s and 27s so that novice/beginning shooters can be slowly brought along in power increases as their skills and confidence progress.


Out of curiosity, what is your definition of "steady diet" and "early failure"? I would venture to say that 5000-7000 Magnum rounds is well above the average seen by most J-frame Magnums during their service life. I have handled and shot probably a good dozen that are at that point right now and they are in good, safe working condition.
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Old 02-18-2010, 05:42 PM
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Great info, but I have to ask since the price of ammo is up there and no time to reload. Does .38 and .38+p with the weight and fps below the 357 standards of the k-frame (model 19-4) kill the gun. I know if 38's are shot all the time it can make 357's hard to seat if not cleaned well after shooting 38's. I have a 14-1 that has 1000's of 38's down the tube but it look and feels like new.
So to put the urban legend to rest can 38's & 38+p be shoot all day from a 357 k frame without damage to the forcing cone and top strap or increase end-shake??? Would shooting a cylinder of light 357's every so often kill the gun?? How does the barrel length affect any of the above?
I appreciate the input I've read and heard several different things about the above over the years it's hard to decide what to do other than leave the k frame 357 in the safe so that it doesn't die prematurely.
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Old 02-18-2010, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srgvaz View Post
Great info, but I have to ask since the price of ammo is up there and no time to reload. Does .38 and .38+p with the weight and fps below the 357 standards of the k-frame (model 19-4) kill the gun. I know if 38's are shot all the time it can make 357's hard to seat if not cleaned well after shooting 38's. I have a 14-1 that has 1000's of 38's down the tube but it look and feels like new.
So to put the urban legend to rest can 38's & 38+p be shoot all day from a 357 k frame without damage to the forcing cone and top strap or increase end-shake??? Would shooting a cylinder of light 357's every so often kill the gun?? How does the barrel length affect any of the above?
I appreciate the input I've read and heard several different things about the above over the years it's hard to decide what to do other than leave the k frame 357 in the safe so that it doesn't die prematurely.
On the average (there is always one that breaks the rule) you can shoot 38 Special all you want in a K-frame 357 Magnum with no risk of severe forcing cone erosion or cracking. As you have already noted, it is important to clean the cylinder to prevent that ring of crud from building up infront of the case mouth. That would make 357 Magnum extraction difficult.

As to 38 +P or 38+P+, that is a different story. Any of the 140 grain or heaiver projectiles will be just fine. Some, not all, of the lighter weight projectiles could be loaded with powders that will accelerate forcing cone erosion. However, this would be a very, very small percentage.

You could shoot a cylinder full of 357 Magnum every week and have little fear that you would ever develop a forcing cone crack in your lifetime. Again, there will always be that one firearm that breaks the rule.

Barrel length is a non issue.

You have a way better chance making some money on your lottery scracth off ticket than you do cracking a forcing cone.
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Old 02-18-2010, 11:21 PM
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colt_saa,

You have called me a lier and a foolish instructor. I'm not going to return the favor by calling you names or insulting you and I'm not going to argue with you either. You are free to believe what ever you want and I am free to do the same.

Be assured I will not participate in any thread you post in from here on.

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Old 02-19-2010, 07:14 PM
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colt_saa,

You have called me a lier and a foolish instructor. I'm not going to return the favor by calling you names or insulting you and I'm not going to argue with you either. You are free to believe what ever you want and I am free to do the same.

Be assured I will not participate in any thread you post in from here on.

Dave
Dave,
Please re-read the first line of your first post to this thread. You opened with "Sorry colt_saa but that is just not factually true".

Silly me, I took that as you calling me a liar. Dave, did I misinterpret that line? I do not think so. My response was intended to offer my own decades of experience as a shooter and instructor in-defense of that and the rest of what your post stated.

I also NEVER called you personally a "Foolish Instructor." You misinterpreted my statement. I apologize for not being clearer.

I meant to imply that ANY INSTRUCTOR that allowed a novice/inexperienced/unprepared shooter to fire a 357 Magnum round from a J-frame as his/her first shot was foolish. I have no personal knowledge of your teaching style and ability beyond what you tell us right here on the Forum. If you allowed such an event to occur while a student was under your tutelage, then yes I would call that act foolish. Only you can tell us if such an event occurred or if you mis-described the events to us in your opening post.

The end of my thread asked for you to clarify your statement "I'm also willing to bet a steady diet of Magnum round, no matter the bullet weight, will lead to early failure of any of those magnum J-frames" by telling your fellow forum members your definitions of steady diet and early failure . Without those definitions, we have no way to evaluate your statement.

Instead of clarifying your beliefs you chose to call foul and bow out of the discussion on the pretense that I called you a liar.

Sorry

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Old 03-04-2016, 03:31 AM
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Back in the 1970's or so the rule of thumb with the model 19 (at least where I come from) was that .38 Specials were to be the regular diet & .357 was for duty use. Excessive use of .357 loads were thought to "loosen up" the gun prematurely. Apparently this was not true. I think that if anything got "loosened up" it would have been the shooter's hand.
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Old 03-04-2016, 09:25 PM
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There are any number of factors in wear and tear in a gun. It is likely capable of shooting the ammo that it was designed to shoot indefinitely as long as it is treated properly. Having said that, I have seen metallurgical failures, rust and lack of maintenance being blamed on the ammo.
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Old 03-04-2016, 09:58 PM
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A few box's of the watered down 110gr..WW personel defense won't hurt your pistol. These are way underloaded.
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Old 02-15-2020, 01:16 PM
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It's my belief that the lighter bullets don't actually cause the problems; it's the extra powder required to get light bullets up to speed that causes problems.

You can just look at load data tables and easily see the different, larger amounts of powder required to get a light bullet to the same speed as a heavy bullet.

Extra powder means extra heat/pressure. Difference in heat from different weight bullets is minimal, all else being equal. So once again, it's not the lighter bullet. It's more powder.

Prescut
O my gawd, I just responded to a 4 year old thread.

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Old 02-15-2020, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roaddog28 View Post
Your model 65 was design to shoot 158gr ammo at about 1100 FPS. I have a model 66 and I shoot ammo that is higher than 140gr and between 1100 FPS and 1250 FPS. This is with a 4 inch barrel like yours. You can probably get away shooting 110gr stuff but I would shoot about 20 rounds and that's it for a range session. You can shoot 357 ammo in a K frame magnum like yours but watch the ammo. Stay with the above recommendation and keep the forcing cone clean as well as the top strap area.
Good luck,
roaddog28
Having been an LEO during late 70's until 2006 I lived through all this and feel I need to correct a few things. The velocities you list are modern less powerful ammo than was issued back in the 70's to 80's.
158 JHP ammo was loaded to about 1250 fps out of a 4" barrel, not 1100 and was safe to shoot in K frames due, in part, to the longer bullet. The most common duty load back in the day was the 125 JHP at 1450 fps out of a 4" barrel. This is the round that caused all the hub-bub about damage (flame cutting, forcing cone erosion, forcing cone cracking) more powder, more damage caused by hot burning powder. Most 110 grain jhp were not loaded as hot as the 125 and did not cause near the damage. The 110 gr. WWB load is not a hot load when compared to the 125. I put over a thousand rounds of WWB 110 gr, through my 65-2 as well as at least 1500-2000 rounds of 158 jhp, plus an unknown amount of reloads since I first bought it with no damage or noticeable forcing cone wear.

Modern 357 is generally down loaded to avoid these problems. The Remington Golden Sabre for example is loaded to 1250 fps and is safe to shoot in K frames.
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Old 02-15-2020, 03:24 PM
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I put several thousand thru model 65s and 13s over the years and the 145 Win. Silvertip and FED/REM 158 SJHPs Not only not caused any problems but had very close POA/POI to the sights.
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Old 02-15-2020, 03:46 PM
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Does the grain weight apply to .38 in a 357 K frame? For some reason I had a box 130g Aguila. I shot about 40 rounds though a 2.5 66-2. That was some dirty stuff. All the other ammo I have is heaver grain.
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Old 02-15-2020, 07:12 PM
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I bought a brand new 66-3 in 1989, 6 inch. It was only my second gun and first revolver, loved that thing. LGS gave it a trigger job, SA pull is 1.5 pounds, DA 7 3/4 pounds.



and that's what it says on the barrel



so I went and shot a steady dose of .357 Mag, 125 and 158 grains commercial, all jacketed, as well as handloads, 125, 140 and 158 grains, Speer and Sierra jacketed on 2400 powder, within the Speer reloading tables, always staying below max.

Abt. 2000 rounds later the forcing cone cracked badly, locking the cylinder. LGS got me and installed a new one. I started mixing .38 spl (which I had never shot before) and .357, while paying close attention to the forcing cone. It cracked again after abt 1500 rounds, but a much smaller crack, which does not impede the function of the gun. Since that day I only use it with .38 spl, did not feel like buying a third barrel. Probably shot another 2000 rounds with it. Crack did not move or worsen.

Still love that gun, been with me for 25 years and with it's amazing trigger it's one of the most accurate gun I own.

But I now use my 586 for .357.

Took these pictures recently



Also some flame cutting but I am not concerned by that.



The flat and thinner portion of the barrel compared to a 586 can be cause for problems in my opinion.
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Old 02-15-2020, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by G.T. Smith View Post
Hey folks,
I am a bit confused over all the talk about the different 357 mag. loads that should or could be shot through my model 65-4 4". Through this forum I have determined it to be a 1990 model. When I bought the gun, the only 357 ammo they had were UMC 125 gr. jacketed soft pts. Those rounds really roared and had significant recoil as well. Then I bought some WWB 110 gr. jacketed hollow pts. marked personal protection and they seemed very light weight by comparison to the UMC's. I have read in several articles that these WWB 110's can damage the forcing cone at the 6 o'clock position. Is this really the case? I keep my guns spotless. I clean and inspect them after every shooting event, which would probably not exceed 20 rnds. I currently have 2 new boxes of these WWB's and hate to toss them if they are not a threat to the well being of my pistol. What .357 mag. round wold be considered to be "safely" shot in my Smith? Seems to me that a S&W handgun should be able to shoot the rounds it was designed to shoot, and do so without failure.

Thank you
Gordon.
I donít shoot any .357ís under 158gr. in my K-frames

Iím probably being a bit over cautious, but in your shoes ... 2 boxes of ammo donít compare to the cost of a potential replacement revolver.

If youíre really concerned about not wasting those rounds, it sounds to me like an excellent excuse to add a L-frame or N-frame to your collection.
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Old 02-16-2020, 02:37 AM
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Firearms are mechanical devices that will wear out over time with use. Some parts are replaceable, some are not. I don't shoot near as much as some on here, and I've replaced a worn cylinder stop and shimmed a cylinder to reduce end shake. It's part of the cost of ownership. In 250 years, people just might complain that they have to replace the dilithium crystals in their Q-36 Space Modulator.

Everything is a tradeoff. Smaller size means easier to carry and better ergonomics for some. The downsides have been well elucidated in this thread and others. I don't chase magnum K-frames too hard because I want heirloom shooters. IMO they were terrific duty weapons that were never intended to be shot a lot for decades. But there are a lot of fine firearms like that.
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Old 02-16-2020, 01:51 PM
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G.T., What the heck, I'll add my 2Ę worth. I've had K-Frame model 19s and 66s. I consider SAAMI spec .357, of whatever weight, to be safe in these guns. That being said, I did see a K-Frame or two and a Python back in the day with damaged forcing cones. Caused by the ammo we used? I don't know.

We were issued 125 grain .357 for years, and I used mostly .357 recreationally in my model 66. My 66 never cracked the forcing cone, but developed excess end shake, timing issues, jacket/lead spitting, etc. I had S&W completely overhaul the old gun years ago. Were I wanting to shoot factory .357 that might be easier on the gun now days, I'd probably look into the 110 grain. It's my impression that major US manufacturers have loaded the 110 grain down to what might be considered a mid-range .357 load, around 1300 FPS. While I consider the K-frames safe, were I going to be shooting .357 extensively again, I would prefer an L-Frame, N-Frame, Ruger GP100 or similar...
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Old 02-16-2020, 03:22 PM
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I choose a new K-frame as a shooter. There are a number of changes on the new guns but 2 externally visible features would be hard to dispute as being improvements: symmetric forcing cone and ball and detent lockup.
Smith says new K frames are as strong as the L and N frame 357s.
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Old 02-16-2020, 04:04 PM
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Groo here
As said earlier , the big problem was the 125 gr sjhp 357 mag at 1450fps.
You will note I was very specific with the load.
This is a full pressure , full power load AND was usually loaded [Win]
with ball powder or other powder in the class of WW296/H110,
Noted for flame cutting and forcing cone wear...
The 110gr loading is lower pressure due to bullet pull/weight / and volume [as was told to me by a WW rep.]
With the powders of the day, the 125 was the lightest weight bullet
that full pressure could be gotten and all specs met.
The original 158 gr 1450 fps was obtained with longer barrels
AND lead bullets.[in high end loads lead will give 100fps more speed
then jackets due to bore friction,,, per JD Jones]
Modern loads for SD or "short barrel" guns are loaded at a reduced
pressure.
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Old 02-16-2020, 05:02 PM
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O my gawd, I just responded to a 4 year old thread.
The thread actually was started a decade ago in 2010

I picked up more than a dozen new LIKES from folks that did not see it the first time

It just goes to show . . . . . "What's Old is NEW Again"

This is a viable topic until we start carrying Phasers in-place of Smith & Wessons
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Old 02-16-2020, 05:10 PM
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Default Flame Cut?

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Originally Posted by CLASSIC12 View Post
I bought a brand new 66-3 in 1989, 6 inch. It was only my second gun and first revolver, loved that thing. LGS gave it a trigger job, SA pull is 1.5 pounds, DA 7 3/4 pounds.



and that's what it says on the barrel



so I went and shot a steady dose of .357 Mag, 125 and 158 grains commercial, all jacketed, as well as handloads, 125, 140 and 158 grains, Speer and Sierra jacketed on 2400 powder, within the Speer reloading tables, always staying below max.

Abt. 2000 rounds later the forcing cone cracked badly, locking the cylinder. LGS got me and installed a new one. I started mixing .38 spl (which I had never shot before) and .357, while paying close attention to the forcing cone. It cracked again after abt 1500 rounds, but a much smaller crack, which does not impede the function of the gun. Since that day I only use it with .38 spl, did not feel like buying a third barrel. Probably shot another 2000 rounds with it. Crack did not move or worsen.

Still love that gun, been with me for 25 years and with it's amazing trigger it's one of the most accurate gun I own.

But I now use my 586 for .357.

Took these pictures recently



Also some flame cutting but I am not concerned by that.



The flat and thinner portion of the barrel compared to a 586 can be cause for problems in my opinion.
Good pictures and I don't see a 'crack'. I see a flame cut. There is additional proof just to the left of the flame cut where the lip of the barrel forcing cone shows another form of flame cutting. I think that your barrel/cylinder gap is/was bordering on 'too much'. In any batch of metal parts of any firearm, there will be one or some that have an anomaly in the grain structure of the metal's meld someplace. IMHO, That barrel happen to have one right at the location of the exhibited flame cut.

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Old 02-16-2020, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Cholla View Post
Good pictures and I don't see a 'crack'. I see a flame cut. There is additional proof just to the left of the flame cut where the lip of the barrel forcing cone shows another form of flame cutting. I think that your barrel/cylinder gap is/was bordering on 'too much'. In any batch of metal parts of any firearm, there will be one or some that have an anomaly in the grain structure of the metal's meld someplace. IMHO, That barrel happen to have one right at the location of the exhibited flame cut.


Lemme try again

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Old 02-16-2020, 06:06 PM
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Thank you 'Classic12': But, I still see only flame cutting. BTW. IMHO, that barrel could be set back say...0.100", re-threaded, new forcing cone and leade cut and cut to a proper gap with little or no probability of future failure. I hate wasting good parts.
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Old 02-16-2020, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Cholla View Post
Thank you 'Classic12': But, I still see only flame cutting. BTW. IMHO, that barrel could be set back say...0.100", re-threaded, new forcing cone and leade cut and cut to a proper gap with little or no probability of future failure. I hate wasting good parts.

Well you are judging from a photograph and itís a difficult spot to photograph with a phone, whereas I have that gun in hand, owning it since new. The crack was diagnosed and confirmed by the LGS who installed that barrel after the original cracked, literally split open at the same spot and locked the barrel shut tight.

Since this crack (the second one) is minor, he suggested I shoot .38 spl and see if the damage worsened. It didnít so I let it be, but never shot another magnum round in it.

Thanks for the repair tip, however I am not sure I can find a competent gunsmith here (Switzerland) to do the job, several retired or passed away lately.
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Old 02-16-2020, 10:48 PM
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If that was my gun, Iíd have that barrel set back a thread or two, but Classic12 may be able to see something that is not apparent in the pictures we're looking at.
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340pd, 357 magnum, 38spl, 686, ccw, colt, concealed, jordan, k frame, k-frame, model 19, model 65, model 66, projectiles, saa, sig arms, umc

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