Now that the National Parks are open to legally-armed citizens complying with state laws, I've given considerable thought to what I'd like to pack while hiking trails that are somewhat far from civilization. I have but one gun in my inventory that I consider ideal for packing in the field as a defense gun against either 2- or 4-legged critters.

First, I'd like the gun to be fairly light, although not so light that it would make the recoil painful and preclude fast follow-up shots. Second, I want an effective stopping cartridge. The .44 magnum and the .41 Magnum are just too much, and the .357 magnum sometimes isn't enough. I want the finish to be stainless, so that bad weather won't affect the gun unduly. The barrel length should allow one to sit down comfortably with the gun holstered. The gun should go bang every time the trigger is pulled, with little or no chance of a malfunction. In the rare event of a malfunction, a quick second try capability would be mandatory. Simpler is better. Nothing to remember except point and pull the trigger.

Now let's go back to caliber. One would want a large cross section, more than adequate stopping power, and manageable recoil. These criteria point to the .45 Colt. I'm not talking about Cowboy loads, but a substantial power level in the order of a 250-grain bullet at around 1,000 fps. I like the "chop factor" of hard-cast semiwadcutters for good frontal impact and bloodletting ability. These loads are not hard to handle; the recoil is more of a shove than a whack, and allow for fast repeat shots.

To me, this would indicate a .45 Colt-chambered stainless revolver with a slim 4-inch barrel. The Smith & Wesson Mountain Gun series would be ideal, but I would want the old-style hammer (firing pin on the hammer) and cylinder release, and a red ramp front sight for easy acquisition in the field. I like the older square grip configuration for a more substantial grip. Forget about the dumb lock S&W is putting on most of its newer revolvers. I'd want the gun to have a smooth action job to provide a slick double action pull.

Here's what I've settled on. It's a model 625-6 Mountain gun, modified as above. The stocks are smooth Ahrends retro classics to convert the round butt to square. You'll find this baby on my hip when I'm in the field. I don't think I could be better armed with a more appropriate gun. How about you?

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

Good choice.

Double Tap makes a 255 gr SWC load at 900-1000 fps and about 500 ft pounds or energy.

When I carry a revolver while camping or hiking, I carry a speedloader which can be accessed quickly and also another 30-40 rounds in a zip lock bag stashed in my pack.

Since you asked --- 4" 686 with either 158s or 125s. I can't decide if your 45 would be my first choice then the 686, or the other way around. Since I have a 686 and no 45s I'll go with it.

The wife and I are planning a trip to the Grand Canyon this year and I wonder --- Does a handgun have to be concealed? Or can it be carried open???
I think that I understand the park rules follow the state laws and AZ requires CC (unlike here in TN). Is this correct????

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In dog years I'm dead.

I am not going to be very popular here. First, I like to pack and do as much as anyone here. I worked two seasons with the park service. 1960 in yosemite and the grand tetons in 1961. We didnt even think of packing guns on the job back then. Maybe the goverment didnt care for our safety? A number of times as a fire fighter we were dropped far in the back country for days (by heliocopter) and then spent another day walking out when we put out a lighting strike or whatever.
Another time I and my boss wrestled a shotgun from a tourist that was going to shoot a coyote that a woman was feeding!
The only time I recall wanting or needing a gun badly, was once I was crawling through very thick manzanita as a blister rust checker and comeing on a VERY fresh cougar killed deer. That did make me more nervous than any other experiance. I know of a incident in yellowstone where some idiot tourist put their kid on a bears back for a picture. The bear killed the kid! How about the guy about 20 years ago that was a cannibal and found with some human fingers wrapped up in wax paper?
Then that guy that killed those two or three women out of long barn near yosemite?
When you work in the park service you see almost unbelivable things dudes will do. As soon as they get past the park entrance sign you are apt to see a car stopped dead center in the middle of the road with all the doors open and the people standing on the shoulder takeing pictures of animals or the view!
Haveing been there, done that, I belive guns are far more needed for protection from humans than critters!
Another time I and a girl friend was sleeping in the open without a tent. Other campers were partying and makeing racket. The next morning a guy was found about 80 yards from us kicked almost to death and dieing!
Times have changed. The animals havent. I just find it ironic that 50 years ago not a thought was given for us who lived working there to be armed and now even the tourists are permitted to carry guns. I think it is a good thing though as long as the good guys know how and when to use them. Far as the bad guys go, its all irrelative as they are going to do what they want, law or no law.

Depends on which national park. If there is a reasonable possibility that bears live there, I would rather be carrying something that throws .43 caliber 240gr hollowpoints about as fast as the factories load them. I realize that bear medicine is a slightly controversial subject, but right now I believe that that is the best bet. I do own three guns that would work just fine with that ammo, but only one is stainless, and for me that is fairly important. In addition, it has a 3" barrel, so it is pretty easy to conceal, and is double-Magnaported and has a set of Fishpaw grips that help greatly to keep recovery time reasonable.

If bears don't need to be figured in, I don't see anything wrong with most .357 Mag, .45ACP or Colt, or even some .38 Spl loads. There are dozens of guns that might be perfectly satisfactory as long as they are familiar, comfortable to carry, and can be fired fairly quickly. I would not exclude the 1911 or other good autos from the list. In fact, based on the fact that I once dropped a gun in dirt that was almost like a fine sand, the 1911 might be near the top of the list, as it is perhaps the easiest of all guns to detail disassemble.

Could be wrong but my understanding is that you can now carry concealed if you can legally do so in that state. Nothing about open carry has become legal. Since CCW is just that, "concealed", most folks will never know the difference. I just hope that those who carry concealed keep it that way and don't go around flashing their guns and screw it up for the rest of us.

How about a Browning BLR lever action take-down rifle in .358 Winchester in a light back pack with a few extra loaded mags.

When I worked yosemite one weekend while lounging around our tent I happened to see one of my buddys sitting reading with his back against a tree. I seen a bear walking right towards the tree from the otherside. I probley should have hollered a warning but instead fished out my browning hawkeye. I got a nice picture of him and the bear running opposite directions! Hope I can find it!

I believe you're right on that. I have a nice pancake concealment holster that should work for this gun; the only change I'd make would be to apply a set of Ahrends finger-groove concealment stocks in the round butt configuration; they are less likely to print than the stocks you see on the 625. Here's a shot of the concealment grips I like mounted on a 624 Lew Horton Special.

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

I would have to carry my 686 4 inch or my new G29 10mm.

Infact i would carry either of my guns while my wife carried the other.

IMO, the farther in to the backcountry you go the less need you have for a gun. Why? Because the overwhelming threat in a park is not the critters, especially the bears, but some of the humans you encounter. For that reason, my primary concern in choosing a handgun will be its suitablity for use in self defense against human aggressors. Just about every bear you meet will have sense enough not to mess with a human. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said about every human.

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Pisgah

I would pick either my M625 .45 ACP Mountain Gun or my M629 .44 Magnum Mountain Gun.

The ACP loaded with 230 gr HydraShocks and the .44 loaded with .44 Special CorBons, with a speedloader filled with Maggies.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Feralmerril, you've got my vote. I lived in SoCal long enough to see so much stupidity. I'm lucky enough to now have some land between me and the two legged critters. 4 legged ones haven't been a problem.
Most don't want to be anywhere near a human.

I am all for being able to carry a firearm anywhere at anytime. But if some John Wayne wannabe, uses this hard earned win for an excuse to shoot a bear, (or any wildlife in our parks) because he THINKS he MAY have been in danger, I hope they prosecute to the fullest extent of the law. All we need is a couple of idiots to ruin it for us all.

I have a Ruger Alasken in .454 & .45 Long Colt for my back woods gun .
I love the .45 Long Colt .
The only thing I would change with your excellent choice would be the addition of a lanyard ring . I added one to my Alasken and I love it .

I think Palidin has made the right choice.

He can load the 45 to whatever level of performance he feels necessary and loaded right it can equal the 44 Mg.

I have a Redhawk 4" in 45 Long colt, but the gun he has will do just as well.

I go into the mtns all the time in Colorado where there are Black Bears but mostly I carry for self defense against two legged types. I usually carry my .357 Mtn Gun loaded with 158 or 180 gr's and feel like it is adaquate for the job.

We often visit Yellowstone and Glacier (we live 90 miles from Glacier most of the year). I remember in the late 60s some nimrod shot a female Griz in Yellowstone about 12 times with a .357. The headlines in the Missoula paper were "Grizzley No Match for Magnum". This genius was camping, saw the bear walking thru the campground and started blasting. The bear tried to get away and later died. Turns out this bear had been nosing around camps for years but had never bothered anybody. The antis, of course went nuts. For the last 40 years or so, the rules against feeding bears in Yellowstone and Glacier have been strictly enforced, the dumps have been closed, and you seldom see a bear any more. There are still some trails in Glacier which seem to get closed every other year or so 'cause a Griz gets after someone. I'm not worried about the serious CWP holder who packs for self protection and I will always carry in the Parks. I AM a little worried about the jokers who think they have now found a reason to arm themselves "'cause they're in the Wild West". Yellowstone, more than Glacier, really attracts people who display zero knowledge of the outdoors and who, quite frankly, I'd rather not have staying in the camp next to ours with their hands locked around their .38 because they just heard a noise in the dark. Just my opinion.

I would be very comfortable carrying my 625 in 45 Colt in a Nat. park.

I've carried it in this Alessi holster on my days off ,around town.

paladin ,a 625 doesn't have to have forged parts to be reliable or
smooth. My 625 was sent back to the P.C. by the previous owner,
and believe me ,it is slick.

Love the Mountain gun ,by the way. Been looking for one for quite a while now.
Thems thats got em' is holdin on to em'.







Found a couple of Safariland 'comp IIs' for the 625. Great speedloaders.





Regards , Allen Frame

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NRA cert.instructor&R.S.O.

Me again. I also worked for the wisconsin conservation dept. Had another job that I was off road for another 3 years , so had roughly 6 years working in the boonies over many states, not counting hunting and just boondocking all the rest.
I dont know why it is, but many normaly fine sane people absolutely
go ape when they get in the woods. I was shot at my first hunting season. Think I was 12 years old, or was it 14? Anyway it was my first earliest time I could deer hunt in wisconsin. It was late afternoon of the last day of the season. Dad had placed me on the edge of a thicket by a swamp. The road was about 150 yards away over the open swamp. I seen a guy walking up the road towards his car right at sundown. He stopped, shaded his eyes and it looked like he was looking right at me. I sat stone still thinking he might be looking at a deer behind me. He brought up his rifle and it seemed I was looking down the barrel. Blewey! I heard the bullets flying all around me as he kept levering and shooting 6 or 7 shots! All as I had for a gun that 1st year was a single barrel 20 gauge iver johnson with a slug! Frankly, I didnt know what to do! Finaly I literaly knew he clicked on empty as he kept levering and the gun wasnt going off! I stood up. The guy seen me stand and ran the last 40 yards or so, threw his rifle in the car and scratched out full bore! In wisconsin back then, if not yet, it was highly illegal to not put your gun in a gun case in the car.
In that area in those days it probley was certain that I knew or dad knew who he was if we could have got a good look.
I have seen a number of other incidents personaly, and heard a ton of other storys from friends and family where people have gone completely nuts when they get hyped up and out in the woods. They may accidently shoot at you, but you could be just as dead as if it was on purpose.

That depends on the national park. You don't need a 460 s and w in a national park in pennsylvania. On the flip side you do need that 500 in alaska. Depends on the park.


460 or 500 in big bear country. 1911 in some parks. kahr pm-9 or j frame in in some .

I couldn't imagine how much less enjoyable a hike would be with this on my hip. . Except for "big bear" country, a j or k frame will do nicely. Joe

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Wisdom chases me; I'm faster

You carry by following the laws of that particular state. Before the previous, short-lived, law was revolked, you could only carry concealed. Now you can carry either way as long as that's permissable in the state in which the park is located. Here in Georgia we can do either. And like you Capt Steve, I hope others don't mess it up for the rest of us. Let's all carry responsibly.

Just a heads-up. Tuff Strips is making "Speed Strips" in all popular large calibers. Google them...$8.49 a pair, comes in black or orange. I ordered .44 and .41 sizes.

If you are happy with it, who cares what anyone else thinks ? For same purpose I have chosen the S&W 329PD.

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Hook686

That's right, according to an Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument LEO I spoke with last week --- whatever is legal in the state is legal in whatever state(s) [watch this --- there may be more than one state jurisdiction in a park] the park is in. That's our most dangerous "park", much of the backcountry closed because of danger from smugglers.

My No1 choice for field carry is a 4" S&W Mountain Revolver in 44 Mag.

I have also carried some form of 1911 in 45 ACP, but in bear country I prefer the 44 Mag...

However the 45 Colt S&W with a 240/250gr at @1000fps, will serve you well.

Carry several speed loaders with extra ammo...

Whoo-hoo! Bear thread!!! I feel pretty good about having a .44 with me whether in a park or just the regular old Nat'l Forest; I've carried both mags and Specials. Around these parts, cougars and wolves are far more prevalent than griz; black bears usually run the other way, but a .44 Spl will handle them if neccessary. You guys are correct - humanoids are probably the more likely threat. I have both 3" and 4" .44s depending on the location, time of year (dress), duration, etc. I prefer blued, but use stainless and hard chrome especially when fishing.

while I have plethora of smith n ruger revolvers in suitable calibers I find myself wanting a Glock 20 for woods protection duties.

I'd imagine any of my 357/44 revolvers would be fine though. I even carry 9mm and .45 occasionally in the rural woods around here and think I'd be fine.

I can tell you from experience there is no rifle that feels big enough if you see a brown or a grizzly bear. If I am poking along in the woods my model 60-10 is packable enough.............

S&W 640-1,125 gr.HP's,Simply Rugged holster,two speed strips,4 in each.

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WALSTIB

Over the years I've known two serious woods ramblers. The first covered most of northern Michigan with a Lee Enfield Jungle Carbine over his shoulder and a Kit Gun on his belt. The second spent his spare time exploring the rivers in central Alaska fly fishing with a Glock 17 loaded with smg ammunition. He was convinced he could get 3 to 4 shots off in the time most could squeeze off one from their .44. I've never hiked anywhere near bear threats, and most of my camping has been on Boy Scout reservations. When walking the dog in urban areas a lightweight Bodyguard stays with me.

Glock 29 loaded with Double Tap or Buffalo Bore is my first choice.

John Taffin called the .45 Colt 625MG 'a perfect pack'in pistol' - I agreed. Years ago, I bought my '02 new variant an older sibling - which I fitted with Dymondwood Combats and a belt holster. Great for open carry.



I have a CCL - reciprocates with other states in the SE. A CCW just makes more sense in some instances. I carry a 296 in most SE states' woods now - substitute the first two 200gr Gold Dots with 240gr LSWCs, probably a bit better for 4-legged dangers, leaving three more GD's for 'other' critters. Carried in a Mika pocket holster, it is more sheeple friendly. A good pocket knife is also important.



Stainz

These kind of threads make me uneasy..........I'm not so much concerned about what most of the folks on this forum will do, but about the yahoos out there that may act like a bunch of mall-ninjas and Rambos in the Natl' Parks. We have a new law that makes it OK to carry in the parks.............I just hope that folks will act responsibly and respectful...no reason to be conspicuous.

In Tennessee we can open carry or carry concealed "if" you have a carry permit. I spend a lot of time in the back country of the Smoky's Nat'l Park and the surrounding Nat'l Forest land....I intend to legally carry but not in a way where it will draw attention to myself. Truthfully, the new law just makes legal what many in the back country have been doing all along.

Don

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Laus Deo! <><

I do know that we in Arizona are allowed (even encouraged) to Open Carry, but I'm not sure if the National Park carry is different. I'll have to verify that before my next trip.

ONE reason to carry a weapon in the National Parks these days is not just for wild animal defense...but because many of our National Park areas have been taken over by Illegal Drug Growers. Not only do they stand ARMED guard against "normal" tourists stumbling upon their crop, but booby trap the surrounding area as well, to my understanding.
I have heard the horror stories out of California.


My choice: 3" Jframe in .357. (carried concealed with a CCW permit).

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Made in USA - Buy American

Let me give folks an idea of how much time (and skill required) you REALLY have to draw and fire...in many cases (for the untrained/trained alike) it's often BETTER to have bearspray.
YouTube - Bear Attack Easton Bowhunting TV
You may have about THIS MUCH time (one shot, maybe two), and any medium power or less handgun may not do it against bear.

Take a look at this video, and try to imagine a stop with a Glock 17 with 9mm. Especially if you tried those Defensive Hollowpoints that are probably in it right now (no real penetration on a bear). Always carry a HEAVY PENETRATING ROUND (.357 or better) for big wildlife. (Hardcast). And SHOT PLACEMENT is also critical.

Can YOU draw, fire, and accurately hit a bouncing basketball on the hood of a 57 Buick coming at you (or your wife/kids from 50'away) at 40mph? Do you practice THIS on a regular basis?
If NOT, then bearspray MAY be a better choice.

YOU CAN come across this same scenario (as in the video) just walking on any trail in many of the National Parks, or on the outskirts of just about any town in the USA. Don't think you have to be in remote Alaska to find a Bear with Cubs.
Or a Couger. Or semi-wild dogs. (or even "normal" house dogs just being jerks...which is the animal that kills the MOST Americans each year).

I carry bear spray along with my pistol, (and carry a 12ga w/slugs) when possible...and will (attempt to) reach for the spray first in such an event. The folks in the video were LUCKY in SO MANY WAYS.

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Made in USA - Buy American

I'd like to get a 460 Rowland conversion for a 1911.

The 460 Rowland is roughly .44 Mag ballistics from a 4” revolver with regular factory loads.
With the Clark conversion and comp, recoil is reported to be relatively soft. Load it up with a 10 round mag, and 11 rounds of 44 mag in a 1911 would work for me in grizzly country.

Around here, I guess I’ll stick with the .40 cal Glocks and 45 acp 1911’s I already own.

Emory

A M625-9 MG in .45 Colt can be found on me at the times you listed. In my neck of the woods rattlesnakes are the my biggest threat, so I carry a couple of rounds of CCI shot.

faraim,

You reminded me that the only times I've seen bears is while unarmed (folding knife only) and on BSA ranches (Philmont and Charles L. Sommer Canoe Base) First at Philmont in NM had a black bear at about 15 feet right after hanging the bear bag. Last time was while canoeing in MN/Canada, had pulled into a spot looking for a campsite and came face to face with a blackie. He hightailed it back into the underbrush and we back out onto the lake! My choice of a backwoods gun is my Smith M58, well at least until I find either a M357PD or M357NG. (41aholic here)

CD

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De Oppresso Liber

I think you're on the right track. If bears aren't in the mix, a 1911 with a couple of spare mags would fit the bill. So would a lot of other things.


Okie John

Therein lies the keywords.
DO you prepare for the worst (bear), and carry a Heavy HOGLEG (and expect to be "good" with it under EXTREME pressure), or carry something convenient (like a 1911, .357, or even a 9mm or .38 for "basic" protection) and just suppliment THAT with a small can of belt-clip bearspray.

Arizona: I "compromise" and usually carry a Jframe with Heavy/Hardcasts (soon .357 Jframe) and a belt-clip can of spray.

Alaska...different story: 12ga w/slugs or .300+rifle. (some people DO use 454/500's...but not ME!) and a can of spray.

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Made in USA - Buy American

IF you are hiking with a buddy, you can get by with as little as a .22...(or spray) for anything from Bears to Cougers.

..cuz ya just gotta shot HIM in the kneecap (or spray HIM), and outrun HIM instead of the BEAR. Bears are attracted to a blinded buddy who's flailing around on the ground...and tastes like pepper. A .22 is fine for that.

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Made in USA - Buy American

.45 Colt

It's my Everglades Park gun. Bears aren't a problem. Gators and Drug Runners are....

Hiking with a mother in-law in flip flops adds a certain something to meeting a cougar or bear.

A round butt model 21 or 22 might work just fine, I'd opt for a 581 with some weigthy hard casts and a speedloader of Fed. 125 JHPs.

Pete

There ya go!

Reminds me of the old "Alaskan Divorce" story...

He and the wife go camping in Bear country, and he gets up EARLY to go fishing....As he leaves (with his fishing pole in his hand)...he lays 3 strips of raw bacon across the top of the tent.


Miami, that's a pretty Ruger (above). Nice pic.

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Made in USA - Buy American

Here in the Smokies we have black bears, but they usually head the other way. If they don't the .45ACP is more than enough to handle them, my grandfather was probably the first handgun hunter in the area (by neccessity, we was po' and surplus .45 was cheap) and he took most of his bears with the GI 45. When I hike around here, I usually take a Colt Det. Special, because around here it is the human animal that is the biggest threat, ditto when I am in the parks of the Southwest. In the Grizzly areas, I start getting comfortable at the .45acp-.44 special threshold. The main concern for my park guns is always Human threats first and Animal threats second. I have to rule out the .460-.500 and any other howdah, they are just too big for any appication but dedicated hunting.

My nearest NP is Glacier, and griz attacks have happened there over the years, sometimes fatal ones. Crime isn't much of a problem, or hasn't been. When I hike in Glacier NP I'm going to be packing a 4" 500. I agree that they might not be the way-to-go in many/most NPs, but Glacier is an exception to that IMHO, at least here in the lower 48.

For most of my purposes, I carry a 3" Ruger SP101 and Speer 158 Gold Dots. Most of my National Park time is seakayaking eastern coastal areas or hiking the Appalachians. That will work fine unless I go to Alaska. Not too worried about bears, moreso predatory humans.

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" I said, good DAY! "

Right you are! Odds are higher in Glacier.