I used a 32 revolver once to slaughter a pig and it just made a hole in the pigs head. The pig didnt even act like it was shot. I grabbed a 22 and shot it and it dropped right there. Although I wouldnt want to be shot with a 32 I never looked at that caliber quite the same,,

Lots of answers here, but this is fact, out of a 2 inch barrel a 357 can not generate any more power than a 38+p. it's proven and written. I don't care what you care or shoot I have no skin in the game, if my bad back allowed me I would carry a small .45 auto with bonded ammo. Other than that would be a 38 158 grain +p or a hollow point wad cutter , third choice is a 380 packed hot with hard cast 95 grin lead.


Don't get me wrong 9mm are great as are 40sw, but with a SW 642 no hammer you can shoot threw a pocket. A LCP is sightless.

A .45 acp with bonded well that just takes the edge off.

I have always liked the idea of a sudden beam from a 500 or 800 lumen flashlight, THEN the bullet of your choice. Your object does not tend to move around much after being blinded. And you can blind someone in daylight with either of these.

[QUOTE=whw;135396197]I'm going on memory, and that is a risky thing to do for a man of my age - DITTO!

At the risk of sounding foolish, I'm going to add my two-cents worth. When I was in the police academy, we were told that professional hit-men actually prefer a .22 cal weapon - for many reasons (easy to conceal, not too loud, accurate, deadly, etc.). If that is/was true, that would reinforce what many have said: BULLET PLACEMENT IS CRUCIAL TO SURVIVING AN ARMED ENCOUNTER! Although I carried a .357 magnum (125gr JHP) for many years as a police officer, I recommend the .38 special for most concealed carry/self-defense purposes. A snub-nose .38, with standard 158gr SJHP or FMJ is a dependable, controllable answer for most users. I truly love the power and intimidation factor of my M66-2; but it stays in the safe while my M36 snubby goes everywhere I do.

This is incorrect. The CRG portion of the serial number reflects the fact that all FBI SWAT teams fall under the "Critical Incident Response Group" at FBI-HQ, commonly referred to as CIRG (pronounced sirg, with a hard G). The serial number only used three of the four letters of the acronym.

sometimes stuff happens..years ago back on the farm my dad and i were getting ready to butcher some steers, same as we did every year ,he was pulling out a 22 rifle to dispatch the critter when i asked dad why dont you use your 45?he had a blackhawk with 4 5/8 barrel and some hot hand loads so he figured ok try it out ... the first shot was in the forehead ,right between the eyes and up an inch, well that steer just kinda looked surprised lowered his head maybe 2 inches and locked his legs standing in the corral with stream of blood shooting from his forehead that reminded me of a garden hose turned on about halfway, 4-5 more shots and the thing finally went down.
a couple months ago i reminded my father of that day i told him that the steer was probably dead after the first shot and he replied "no way! it sure looked alive to me ,ill never trust a handgun again!" in fact he wont even use a 22 on steers anymore, he goes straight to his mod 700 7mm mag.
my dad is/was a hardass but this one bothered him.

There are some links to Skeeter Shelton and Bill Jordan on here that go through the .38/.357 points.

Incorrect.

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You can get an extra couple of hundred feet per second. If the bullet is designed to expand at 800 fps, and many are, then the difference between 800 and 1000 fps is a better probability of expansion.

Buffalo Bore's heavy 38+P gives a 158 grain bullet 1040 from a 2" barrel and 1143 from a 3" barrel. Their heavy 357 using a 3" barrel - the shortest they show - gives 1398. I doubt the loss of an inch would cost you nearly 400 fps.

I takes a lot of time and practice to do well with a 2.5" 357 mag. I shot a 4" K frame for a few years and then bought a very, very nice 19-3 in 357. It is a handful and the magna grips squirm in my hands, but I am working on it. It is not a carry gun for me.

I am not going to put some awful looking grips on that gun and have not gotten around to trying a Tyler-T grip. I think that if a person can carry a 4" barrelled gun a 357 is the natural choice. Anything shorter than that, I lean toward the j-frame 38 special.

I really think there is something to establishing a rhytm in shooting, a cadence in running through the cylinder. I have done it for a long time and it gets the rounds down range in at a good speed and in an accurate manner. I have not been to a bunch of schools that teach tactics, but I do believe a person under stress will likely revert to what he usually does when shooting. The name of the game in protecting yourself is to put lead on the target until it stops. Having a different shooting scenario for multiple situations might work if that is how you earn a living and practice every day, but for most folks I think it just confuses what they are trying to accomplish in practicing to defend themselves.

I can still shoot a Glock 29 better than the 19-3 for practical purposes, but I don't carry either. The 442 is just right for me. I cast a pile of 158 swc from a six banger lee mould and can get in a lot of practice for next to nothing. I carry what I practice with and don't feel undergunned.

I'm not trying to give you a hard time but the above part of your post makes no sense. You don't have to wait for a 357 Magnum bullet to get a certain distance away from you before it will expand properly or penetrate sufficiently. If the bullet is properly designed it will work from right out of the muzzle to as far as it retains sufficient velocity for expansion.

And unrelated to the above point, I've always wondered about this claim that the 38 Special is more effective than it used to be because of improved bullet designs and materials available today. And then you will hear in the same discussion that the "FBI load" is the most effective (has the best street record for stopping) round and it is loaded with a lead SWC-HP. That's sure not very high tech now is it?

Dave

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RSVN '69-'71
PCSD (Ret)

Standard pressure .38spl is often compared to the .380acp, and even that generally outperforms it. I don't know of any knowledgeable experts who would claim with a straight face that .380acp. is comparable to a good .38+P.

It's comments like these that discourage people from having a proper respect for firearms. The OP makes it sound as if they little better then paintball guns. The truth is, handguns can be VERY deadly and destructive. I saw a documentary once were they were rebuilding this kids skull, of which nearly half had been blow away by a .357 mag.

No thanks, I'll take my chances with my gun against the Louisville slugger.

The only time I have ever had to use or had the opportunity to use a .357 on a live animal was when this time last year I dispatched a 4 point buck I hit with my jeep. I had my Model 27 with a 3 1/2 inch barrel loaded with a 160 grain #358156 SWC and 12.5 grains of 2400, far from a max load. The deer was messed up but still alive and I parked one of those bullets in the neck about four inches below the jaw line. The bullet shattered the spine, and went right out the other side and kept right on going. The deer was dead right there. Earlier this year I shot a woodchuck with my Smith 649, same bullet just at a lower speed coming from the .38 Special. That chuck took a few minutes to die even though it was shot behind the skull at the base of the neck and out the front blowing a pretty big hole in it. So what can we gather from this? No two incidents are the same and you shouldn't buy a gun and caliber based on one instance in one place at one time. Just because one bad guy collapsed like a sack of hammers on the pavement doesn't mean the next guy will if shot with the exact same bullet even if in the exact same place.
Buy a gun on how well you can shoot it and where you put the rounds consistently. There was an old saying once, a hit with a .22 is better than a miss with a .44.

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Vaya con Dios

Not a fact and not proven: New Page 1

Although if you asked me if the benefits of a .357 in a snubbie outweigh the negatives, I would answer with a resounding no.

I have nothing to add. Just wanted to say that I love the knowledge being dropped in this post. Freaking awesome. Thanks all for sharing. Some really freaking good stuff here! I have so much to learn it's not even funny, but am enjoying the journey.

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M&P FS 9mm
M&P Shield 9mm

The subject has been covered very well here. Let me try to say it slightly differently.

When I was young everyone was talking bad about the little M1 Carbine rifle and talking enthusiastically about the .357 pistol. (Goofy - except for the nice variety of bullets available for the .357)

One shot stops can be worded differently. A .357 under 8 (?) inches long makes so much noise and blast of fire after dark at close range (when most shootings happen) many people have no doubt fainted. I would place money that fainting would be considered a one shot stop by some secretaries.

No doubt - as the police trainers tell stories about bystanders being accidentally shot, often showing movies, one shot stops happen more often.

If someone has religious like confidence in his firearm he or she is less likely to fire in bursts.

The first people doing one-shot stop statistics were doing them back when it was still legal to shoot fleeing felons (or almost anyone fleeing from a crime scene after yelling halt?). They cocked their revolvers back then, for a good shot.

Nowadays some of the people shot might have been in a narcotics raid and perhaps a stun grenade had just exploded indoors?

Whatever you can shoot fastest and bestus with is the right gun. The first to hit anywhere often wins. The (sometimes temporary) stun effect of first hit is important. Except the number of super aggressive young crazies and criminals on crack cocaine is very high in some parts of big cities.

When I am fishing I carry hooks and poles for what I expect to catch.
I like 45 auto because the bullet is big and the case holds a lot of powder at a lower pressure. But what I most often carry is a variety of shells in my 38 special revolver. Right this minute my house gun has two heavy & slow round nose lead bullets first, and three lighter and faster silvertip hollowpoints next. Next time I get a box of target wadcutters one of them will be loaded in first chamber to come up.

My old High Standard double action .22 magnum rimfire derringer has hiked more miles in forest or desert than any other of my guns - but if I choose to shoot a rattlesnake with it I might as well be throwing rocks. Whichever, they leave the area quickly but can come back after dark if mice are around. Snoring might help keep them away from camp. Any Smith & Wesson revolver or .22 auto is very adequate, but how many guns does one want to carry. A nice quiet 38 target wadcutter can be a nice first round in a J Frame 357, for rattlesnake areas. When you go back down the trail the rattlesnake will likely still be there, waiting to ambush the mouse he smells that also uses that trail. If your dog is running out in front of you it might be a problem. Shoot the rattler for your dog. Use a 38 wadcutter for your ears.

Not much to add to this thread...it has been stated well already; shot placement is the most important factor. I've been at many homicides and attempted murders in my time. No two are ever alike. Two contrasting scenes I've been to: a large young man gets shot with one .380 ACP, the bullet ricochets off his collar bone and travels down into his chest cavity, hitting his heart and major blood vessels...he dies before he hits the ground. Second scene, an average sized man is attempting to ward off two home invaders (home owner is using a bat) and is shot four times in the upper chest with a .38 Special, standard pressure. All of the bullets lodge in his pectoral muscles (he was strong for his size!) and he lives to testify. I've seen survivors of .45 ACP gun shots and those killed by a single .22 short. Placement was the key.

That being said, I would opt for the "most powerful" (however you define that) caliber with which I can hit my target multiple times consistently and quickly.

And regardless of what you are carrying, 38 or 357 - don't forget - anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Regards 18DAI

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7 +1 Rounds of hope & change

Thats an interesting story. There have been a few times where my shot placement was off (pigs and steers have small brains - there aint much to shoot at) but a 22 has enough punch to effectively scramble their brain. And, thats all were really trying to do since it allows for a better bleed out than if you straight out kill it with a big rifle. A freind of mine got a new barrel to burn trash and decided he'd use his 9 mil to put a few ventilation holes in it. It would not penetrate the barrel. He ran and got his 22 and it went through both sides of the barrel. First time I ever saw a pig stunned by a 22 I never looked at that caliber quite the same either.

This brings to mind a shooting we had our way about three years back. Some drunk decided to shoot up his ex-girlfriends house by firing six .357 125 grain JHP's (I was able to see some of the reports) through her front door, all went right out the other side of the mobile home (yep). He got in his truck and drove off on a slow speed chase for about twenty miles and then pulled over and decided to play QuickDraw McGraw with several cops. He was able to get two rounds off with his Colt Peacekeeper, one struck one deputy in the chest dead center of the vest, the other was hit in his pepper spray can which popped and gave the deputy shrapnel wounds in the side under his vest. Needless to say the guy lost and was hit over a dozen times with .45 ACP, .45 GAP (NYS Troopers gun's) and .223. He took several hits to the body but it the coroner figured it was the combination of a .223 and a .45 ACP to his head that ended it for him and he was dead when he hit dirt. Now that was with the legendary .45 ACP's reputation which is well earned. I have read the autopsy and there was no way this guy was essentially a dead man standing until the head shots put his lights out. It goes to show you that everyone is different and even with plenty of shots in the vitals this guy would have kept fighting. There is a reason cops are trained to fire more than one shot at a target. They don't believe in one shot stops either.

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Vaya con Dios

.45 and .45+P

John, if you're going to post something like that you need to accredit it to your source. Now I'm willing to bet, given the huge advantage given to light weight bullets in all the results, that comes from Marshall & Sanow. They've been dis-credited enough times, by enough knowledgable people so I don't have to go into it again. Let it suffice to say, that ain't the whole story.

Dave

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RSVN '69-'71
PCSD (Ret)

Hi Dave!
http://handloads.com/

The Speer 135Gr SB is missing from the charts. It seems to be the most widely accepted .38 by the major PDs in the country.

Lots of responses here, but I thought it might be fun to add my $.02. First, briefly, I think the idea of "stopping power" is way too vague. If you hit a threat in the eye socket with a .22 - it will stop him. Hit the same threat with a .45 in the thigh, it may not. Which has more stopping power?
With that in mind, a .45 is a big *** carry, and a smaller, lighter revolver might be a good call. Easy answer - a .357 will fire .38 rounds, so cheaper ammo at the range, carry +p. The .357 is a very fast and penetrating load, so is pretty irresponsible to carry due to over-penetration and potential damage to unintended targets. JHP's will lessen the potential. Be safe.

Man, there is more than a 2 1/2 year break in this thread and it picked up just as it started...lots of responses.

Good reading though. It's certainly evident both the 38 an the 357 have many followers and several with actual incidents. That says to me both are effective...perhaps one is just more effective.

Because most of us can shoot something smaller with dramatically better accuracy. I'd rather be missed with a 44 than be hit with a 22LR. But that's just me.

Bingo. Though likely well-intentioned, Marshall and Sanow's research has been pretty thoroughly discredited.

The tables reproduced above are pointless. There is no cite, unless it is the "Handloads.Com" home page (and the info ain't there either). There are no definitions (such as the criteria for a "one shot stop"), there is no methodology described, no raw data was provided, etc. The tables are just a pretty waste of space.

When I carry concealed, I carry a j-frame 60-9 357 Magnum with some of the Hornady Critical Defense 125 gr. However, I have contemplated switching to some of the equivalent +P rounds, like what gunlovingirl said above.

It's all personal preference..if you really want one of those 696's...get it instead. Otherwise, I'm biased in favor of 357 magnum revolvers just for the option for the magnum loads or 38 special reloads for practice.

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Lets say a quality, well designed .38 Special bullet is fired accurately into the pump organ of an assailant. The bullet does its part, penetrates deep enough and expands and totally voids the warranty of the pump organ; but the assailant doesn't drop and keeps on coming at the intended victim. It is doubtful that a .45 ACP bullet, nor anything else placed accurately would have had any better effect. Every so called guru I've ever listed to or read their materials have stated that a handgun is a poor manstopper, and will not always work effectively all the time. Multiple, accurately placed shots and good tactics such as employment of failure to stop drills are what stops the fight. I've known of a couple of instances over the years where one shot stops ended stopped the fight: one was a headshot and the other was a gun shot from a 9mm Hydra Shok +P+. Of the latter, I would suspect that the location of the shot knocked the wind out of the attacker causing him to drop, not the "knock down" power of a +P+ 9mm. I've also heard of the proverbial drug addict who took multiple shots from 45s, 38s, 357s, 12 ga., etc. and continued to be a threat. If an assailant is determined, he/she may not go down like he/she's supposed to. The Miami FBI shootout was a prime example.

I like my 45, but have no problem with 40s, 9s, 357s, or even .38 Sp for self defense, and I can find no fault with you wanting to carry a 64 or 65 with a three inch barrel. You'd be well armed regardless of what caliber you load. The Speer short barrel loads are supposed to be pretty good, and I'd personally stay away from anything lighter than 125 grain. That is because I've noted that the lighter bullets with jacked up velocities to make them effective don't shoot as tight as the heavier .38s. Remember that the original .38 Special was designed around a 158 grain lead bullet, and most quality 38 revolvers will shoot point of aim with that bullet configuration or close to it.

There is not much more than can be added to this thread. Shot placement is the key to taking down the bad guy. The shot has to penetrate 12 inches or more and hit vitual parts of the body such as chest and neck to head area. Even a shot to the chest in the lung or heart area does not mean instant death. There has to be blood pressure loss or loss of oxygen to the brain to cause death. Bad guys can live many minutes before death occurs with a chest shot. History has shown this.
The only shot that should assure the bad guy does not get up to attack again is a head shot, neck shot or spine shot. This will incapicate him.
Howard

i would be interested in reviewing the data you mention here stating my 44 magnum will only slow or discourage an assailant

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KK4EMO

I'll just stick to my photography then.

a well placed shot from a S&W K frame .38 special using a DEWC will work just fine.

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I think a full snort .357 COM will do more than slow the typical assailant. Don

Ask Robert Kennedy what he thinks about the stopping power of a .22.
These ammo discussions are always interesting.

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Back to back World War Champs.

Yes, much like the real estate mantra, "location, location, location" as it relates to successful real estate ventures, shot placement will almost always trump bullet caliber.

Keep it simple. Use the calliber, cartridge, gun...that delivers the most energy to the target that you are the most comfortable with. There are no magic bullets but as the energy moves up the scale the POTENTIAL for greater damage increases. Good luck.

Between the 64 and 65, I would get the 65, just to enjoy the ability to shoot whatever .38 or .357 I wanted.
With said revolver you can try all the different loads and see which one works best for YOUR needs. And do try the 145gr. Silvertip and 158gr. Remington SJHP. Both underrated loads!
As for the caliber wars; I could shoot you in the eye with an ancient Daisy Red Ryder BB gun and have the desired result. Or in the foot with a 12 gauge same thing.
With handguns think two to the chest, and repeat. If it doesn't work, aim for the nose and let fly!
But just because your load of choice hasn't appeared in a magazine, or had accolades heaped upon it my some guru, doesn't mean it won't work for YOU. Dale

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Back when i was CCW a colt python in 357mag w/6" barrel my choice of bullet weights for my reloads was 1500 fps 125gr JHP's. But i later found out my python had pin point accuracy with the 140gr JHP speer bullet at out to 100yds. Any small rock on the berm at 100yds wasn't safe.

My point is a well placed accurate shot is what matters when in defensive mode. Its a powerful load max'd out that may not hits its poa or a very accurate load thats on the money everytime?? For upclose and personal work the max'd out load may work. But its accuracy vs. power its up to you.

I did get involved in testing my reloads in clean wet sand and in gallon water jugs. You may want to do that to see which load may preform better over the other.

Everyone has a time where they doubt their carry gun. Every gun will break or develop some sort of problem. Revolvers are not immune. Jams do not automatically mean there is a mechanical problem with the gun.

I found part of the solution is to have at least two copies of my primary carry gun. If one has some problems, then I move to the secondary gun. I try to diagnose and fix the problem myself (Glocks are very easy to work on and $40 in random spare parts can fix most common problems). I then test it, but don't do 500 or 1000 rounds.

Proper maintenance is necessary. Determine your gun's maintenance schedule, buy the parts, and stick to it.

Regardless, skill in remediating malfunctions is essential. Any gun can jam at any time, regardless of mechanical status or your confidence in it. You need to be able to assess and handle it quickly.

I've never been attacked by sand or water jugs!

This thread has gotten a lot of mileage for having been started in March of 2010.

Any .357 is by definition a +P gun because any 38 Special can be fired from a .357 Magnum.

The .357 Magnum will, with proper loads (125 grain JHP), give much greater (94% versus 80% if you go in for the "stopping power" charts and tables created by the experts in the field.

That said, the 125 grain full power Magnum should really only be used sparingly (sight-in and occasional qualification) with 38 Special being used for almost all shooting in K frames for reasons discussed in other threads.

There are other reasons not to use full power Magnum ammo - blast and flash (unless you buy LE loads which generally use low flash powder), follow up shots a little slower due to recoil, etc., etc.

Personally, it is still hard to beat the .45 ACP for stopping power, recoil control, follow-up shots, etc.

Everyone has his or her pet load and many will talk about how this or that is "as good as" the .45 or the .357. That ought to tell you something right there.

Almost no one who has studied the problem seriously believes that a 9mm or 38 Special is better than a .45 or .357 Magnum. The best you get is that "with proper loads" it is "almost as good." "Almost" is a relative thing.

Since I don't expect to convince anyone of anything, I will just say that a good compromise is a .40 S&W with a 13 to 15 round magazine. Same size and weight as your heavy Model 457, more shots and stopping power better than 9mm and 38 Special, but not as good as .45 ACP.

The .40 caliber auto holds more than twice as many rounds as a 3 inch 38 Special or .357 Magnum K frame in the same size package that many feel is easier to conceal because it is nice and flat, and the M&P and equivalent Glock seem to fit most hands, have triggers that are easier to manage and the ammo is less expensive than 38 Special or .357 Magnum ammo.

Good luck.

Buy a .357 handgun. Then experiment and decide which load is best for you. I personally have a model 65 3" and highly recommend it as the platform you seek. The .38 Spl +P does a wonderful job. The .357 magnum does it better. The choice is really up to YOU. Good Luck and have fun!

What you say is not a fact by any means. Look at any manufacturers ballistics tables and see you're wrong.

A case in point, Buffalo Bore ammo which lists ballistics in actual guns not laboratory test barrels. Buffalo Bore ammo is about as hot as it gets. Didn't find exact comparisons but what I list certainly shows a serious edge for the .357.

BB 158gr +P .38 Special, S&W 340PD 1 7/8" barrel; 989 fps/343 ft lbs
BB 125 gr .357, S&W M66, 2.5" barrel,1448 fps/582 ft lbs. That's a mere 70% edge in energy. Trivial, hardly.

Not very close is it? My 6" Ruger GP100 clocks 1592 fps/889 ft lbs with BBs 158gr JHP over an Oehler 35 chrono, not even in the same universe as any .38 Special.

The win goes to the .357 no matter what. More blast and recoil, of course. Choose what you want. Don

Wow. Are those measured in your gun Don ? That 125 at 1450 fps in a 2.5 barrel has to be scorching ! I am just curious. Thanks for your info.

Not anything startling new to the thread, but I had just read some ballistic information compiled from coroners reports, the FBI, and other police agencies on verifiable shootings.

The 357 had somewhere around 96% of one hit stops. It also had the most data trail, with the 45 and 38 behind that. So it is effective no doubt.

The 9mm had good data too dont kid yourself, it is just that it had more hits. The authors were referring to the facts that when they see a gunshot in the ER, or morgue, that when they see mutiple projectiles on the scans they think 9mm first. However, sometimes it is not the case as they were looking at bullets that had separations .

The 44 Magnum had a high percentage as you might expect. It just did not have as much data from these reports. They did point out that it has an extremely high stopping rate for almost any hit.

There was mortality work too. While I dont remember the exacts, it is fair to say that many of the subjects in these recorded shootings died. Whether that was instantly or at a later time. They also concluded that many of these shootings were at close range. As the distance increased the wounds decreased as did the mortality. Just what you would expect in handgun shootings.

The 380 had a very high mortality rate BTW. It also had more one hit stops than I would have expected but I dont remember exactly what it was. A deputy here told me once that a couple of Medical Examiners here that have seen enough shootings to know carry a 380. I realize they are not primary LEOs either and would have many on the scene when they arrive. So it is a trade on easy carry in my opinion. But nonetheless it says something.

Keep in mind that this was for hits. Not for shots fired. It did not discriminate a hit on the first shot versus a hit on the 10th shot.

One other item I will add is that at some years ago my car was robbed and my 357 was stolen. When I got a new gun, I purschased a new Colt 1911 Government Model in 45 ACP.

When I showed my new Colt to my Dad who had been a US Marine Corps Sgt he frowned and said " That will get you killed!" I was of course thinking he was going to say "Yep, that is the best."

Some years after that he and my uncle told me of point blank range hits in Korea with the 45 that did not stop the enemy. And worse of finding dead guys with jammed 45s and ammo still in the mag. I realize these battle conditions were extreme , and those military 1911's might not be in the best shape. But the stories were real experience. A 1911 or a 45 ACP for that matter was not anywhere close to the top of those USMC Sgts weapons list.

If it's 38 vs 357, I just always think it's better to do with the 357 purely because of the fact that it gives you more options (38 or 357). On average you're not going to spend that much more for the 357. I mean if you have to just tell yourself you buying a really expensive 38 and load it with 38s if you want. I just thinking having options is always better than not.

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BTW; I've carried the 44mags for most of my ccw life. I been the full gamit between the 357mag, the 44mag and the 45acp at times. Right now my ccw pistol is a used czech CZ82 in 9mm mak with two 12rd mags. When i'm not packing the CZ82 its my new S&W Model 58 in 41mag with its 4" barrel. I do like to switch ccw guns often juust to give them a breath of fresh air. One of my all time favorites is a ruger police service six in 357mag with a 2 3/4" barrel.

When i'm out at night fishing its my cz82 in 9mm mak. Now out in the wilds of VT in the green mountains national forest its nothing smaller than my 357mag or bigger.

Overall its all about the first shot placement.

It seems to me that given appropriate bullet terminal performance, "stopping power" depends on three things: bullet diameter and weight, bullet velocity, and (most importantly) bullet placement. I think a 38 spl "FBI load" has enough of #1 & #2 if the shooter provides #3. I think that a 357 will proably kill someone deader than will a 38 spl, but just plain dead is good enough.
I do think that most people who buy light and/or short-barrelled 357's shoot a box or so of magnum loads, then buy and carry 38 +P's. In that case, the "357" stamped on the barrel may give you a warm & fuzzy feeling but it doesn't really do much else.