I had a action job on my 617 from a reliable gunsmith whi is know for his work. In short, I had taken the revolver to the range today to try out. Big difference in the action, etc. Question is in regards to failure to fire rounds. There were 2 (two) failure to fire rounds on the average for every 100 rounds fired (Federal, Wal-Mart brand). Remington Thunderbolts had zero out of 50 rounds, etc. Looking at the casing of the under fired rounds looks like the same hammer strikes compared to the other rounds that fired. Would you call this the ammo not being reliable or the revolver with light strikes?

You might try removing the grips and tightening the mainspring's strain screw just a tad, then retest.

Sounds like ammo - Try some CCI Standard and see what it does. Most 22's will have a miss fire, just the life of the 22.

I agree with John..
Just about every Remington & Federal 22lr bought in "Value-Packs" has about 1 in 50 that is a DUD..
Also the CCI Minimag is the round that's been proven to be the most likely to fire & work in autos for what it's worth..
Most of these if the lead is removed & powder poured out will not have priming or a complete lack of if inspected..
It's the Nature of the Beast with 22lr

What type of 617? 6 shot? 10 Shot? 4" ? 6" ? Dash #?
Congrats
Gary/Hk

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MightShowYouHisSmith&Wesson

Did you have failure to fire rounds before the action job? Don

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"Don't worry be happy"

Can not recall if there was failure to fire problems but two rounds out of 100 sound more like cheap ammo. Just looking for other folks opinion. The case does have good strike marks.

Note: 617, 4" barrel, 10 shot

I shot:

100 rounds, with two failure to fire with Federal value pack
another 100 rounds with two faiiure to fire with Federal value pack
another 100 rounds with no failure to fire with Federal value pack
50 rounds of Remington with no failure
50 rounds of Federal Campion with three failure to fire
100 rounds, with two failure to fire with Federal value pack

I've had some occasional FTF when using Winchester bulk Xpert Hv from Walmart. However, by re-inserting the failed round after rotating it, every single round has fired. In addition, I've noticed that it only becomes a problem after the cylinder has become fouled enough that inserting and seating new rounds require a firm push. Personally, I suspect that the problem is more related to not fully seating a round than due to the gun or the ammo.

However, my 617 hasn't had any action work done on it so this may not be directly aplicable to your situation. But it does point out that the 22 calibers can be a bit finicky about loading. If you allow a round to stand off from the chamber rim a bit, that free movement when struck will act to lighten the strike.

If the hammer strikes look the same, I say ammo. Rimfire ammo is not always reliable, particularly lately, it seems to me.

Can be the Federal Value Pack Ammo. Today a new box and a failure in the first magazine load, no more in a half box shot. Last week a new box and I had about 3 in a half box shot. Gun was High Standard Victor 22 auto.

While not "Enco grade ammo" I like Wolf 22 ammo, burns clean, Highly accurate and not really all that expensive for what you are getting. Seems very reliable , and I have shot a lot of it, Ernie

Sounds like a have to shoot more to see what happening.

Rimfire. Did you shoot the unfired ammo a second time?Also check the strain screw.

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WALSTIB

Many action jobs involve replacing the mainspring and rebound spring with lighter ones. Some also back off on the strain screw. If the strain screw is fully in place, you may want to consider removing the mainspring and bending it just a little to straighten it. It sounds like you are right at the lower limit of mainspring strength for reliable ignition. If that doesn’t work, you might want to consider replacing the mainspring with a slightly stronger one.

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Tom

I have 10 or 12 .22's, both in revolver, and semi. I have learned to accept a few misfires in all of them. That is why they make bad defense weapons.

Considering you had an action job done, I would lean more to the cause being light strikes. I have a 10 shot 617 and it had mis-fires if I backed off the mainspring screw even a little bit. It still had quite a few even with the screw turned all the way in.

So I installed a Wolf standard power mainspring, a wide, smooth target trigger, and installed a longer allen set screw in place of the mainspring screw to be able to apply more force to the mainspring. The trigger pull is somewhat heavy but not overly so and is very smooth. My 617 has had maybe 3 mis-fires since and I have put several thousand rounds of various ammo through it. Federal Bulk, CCI, etc.

For reliable ignition, the .22LR needs a very hard hit with the firing pin. There is just no way around it.

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"I'm just a dog chasing cars."

The 617's with the "new style" frame mounted firing pin will benefit from the installation of a C&S extra length firing pin. I have installed them, and they always help with FTF's.
The old style rimfire firing pin is ID'd by the pin in the frame that holds the firing pin bushing in place. The newer style revolvers do not have the pin visible from the outside, you have to remove the sideplate to see the pin.

A couple of years ago I bought a nice 4" 617-1 at a show. A previous owner had lightened the action -- a lot -- and the gun had a simply wonderful trigger. I quickly found out, however, that the price to be paid for superlight triggers on rimfire revolvers is unreliable ignition. I was getting FTFs on about 1 of every 6 rounds I fired. No, the problem wasn't a backed-out strain spring, I made sure that was tightened as far as it could go and I still got a lot of FTFs. For a while I put up with it, rationalizing that this was only a range gun and the FTFs were worth the ultra smooth trigger. Eventually, however, I tired of it and took the gun to a smith. He suggested putting in a slightly heavier mainspring. I did and the problem disappeared instantly. The trigger is still very light and wonderfully smooth but now I get 100% ignition.

The problem, as he explained it to me, is that rimfires simply do not ignite as easily or as reliably as centerfire ammo. Thus, there needs to be a little extra "oomph" on the hammer drop to assure reliable ignition.

As corroboration of that I called Smith and spoke to someone in their repairs department. He told me that Smith will not do a trigger job on a rimfire revolver precisely because lightening the trigger will often produce FTFs. He said that it was Smith's judgment that a lot of factory .22 lr ammo is just not all that reliable absent a pretty heavy hammer drop and, so, Smith deliberately made the triggers a bit heavier on their .22s and didn't do action jobs on them.

I'm just guessing here, but would speculate that your problem is a combination of cheap ammo and the trigger-job which, on a revolver, frequently reduces the strength of the hammer-strike somewhat. It is one reason that I never have trigger jobs done on revolvers. Usually they smooth up after some decent amount of usage, either that or I get used to them the way they are after a good amount of practice and growing accustomed. Sounds like yours is not too bad, though. I've seen some centerfire revolvers which, after a trigger-job, will have one or two FTFs in every cylinder-full.

Bulk pack ammo will occassionally do the FTF thing. Never loosen your mainspring screw. it was designed to be tight and should stay that way.

I am leaning more towards the ammo. I have had numerous miss-fires with Remington bulk pack.Maybe it's me but I feel that the 22 ammo of resent manufacture has a higher miss-fire rate than ammo manufactured 30 years ago

Yes, but if you not the FTF is only 2 rounds out of 100 rounds on average. If it was more like a FTF every 10 rounds I would expect it to be more or less the action job. Best thing to do is shoot off another 500 rounds or so to see what happens.

tyger,

Too bad we don't know what the FTF rate was before the trigger job.

If the main spring was replaced it might be the problem. Wolff, for instance, says very clearly that they "strongly" recommend the type 1 springs which are factory strength. Type 2 are for reduced power and may compromise reliability.

It might be best to just replace the trigger return spring.

I have not noticed a 1 in 50 failure ratio with any of my 22LR and I buy all of it at Wal Mart.

Most folks accompany smoothing the lockwork with spring changes. Wolff springs are great - but even the full-power hammer unit will yield ftf's with modern strain screws, filed/ground or not. The turned end of the newer strain screws is smaller and will intrude into the hollow 'Power Rib', lessening the pre-load. A replacement full length strain screw may bridge said hollow - and yield no ftf's. The trigger return spring change only slows the trigger return - and is an acceptable improvement for everyone but JM - who can appreciate the speed!

The strain screw should be tightened all the way, lest it work loose. It secures the spring as well as placing the pre-load on it. The exception is the the Allen headed set-screw replacement - like I employed on my new 617. It is set by duplicating the proper separation of the leaf from the front grip frame's inside wall - and test firing. If no ftf's, unscrew the screw half a turn - and try again. Repeat until you get ftf's - then screw it in a half turn and put a toothpick drop of blue Loctite on the threads. Big importance on this - let the Loctite set for 24 hr! My 617 is known at the range for it's trigger - great improvement.

Stainz

Stainz has an excellent suggestion. In addition, I would definitely replace the firing pin with either Cylinder & Slide's or Apex Tactical's "long pin".

The combination of a "tuned" strain screw and the "longer" firing pin should solve the problems.

Rimfires can be a pain in the tuckus, sometimes.

Dale53

I vote for ammo as the cause. Two FTFs out of 100 rnds is VERY good.

I shoot my 617s regularly in steel and bowling pins competition. I use only Federal Champion bulk pack 36 gr JHPs since they have proven to be the most reliable. They still have an FTF once in a while. Usually that dud will go bang with a second hit in a different spot.

My 617s all have action jobs by Mike Carmoney who has a website under the logo "Carmonize". He is a competitive shooter and states clearly that you can't lighten a 617 very much, but you can sure smooth the action significantly. Try him out.

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Bob.
SWCA 1821