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S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present All NON-PINNED Barrels, the L-Frames, and the New Era Revolvers


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  #1  
Old 05-25-2010, 04:45 PM
piece piece is offline
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[langtitle=sv]Heavy mag loads in a 686-3 8 3/8"[/langtitle] [langtitle=sv]Heavy mag loads in a 686-3 8 3/8"[/langtitle] [langtitle=sv]Heavy mag loads in a 686-3 8 3/8"[/langtitle] [langtitle=sv]Heavy mag loads in a 686-3 8 3/8"[/langtitle] [langtitle=sv]Heavy mag loads in a 686-3 8 3/8"[/langtitle]  
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Some people tells me to avoid this because the gun will take damage. Loads im talking about would be some 15,5gr VV N-100 and a 158gr JSP Speer bullet. Lets say I shoot 2-3000 rounds of this every year during competitons. Would you reccomend me to use another gun or shall I proceed?

Last edited by piece; 05-25-2010 at 04:47 PM. Reason: Language tags are anoying
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  #2  
Old 05-25-2010, 06:00 PM
scooter123 scooter123 is offline
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What's your resulting velocity? If it's less than or equal to about 1200 Fps from a 4 inch barrel. BTW, since you're in Europe I'll do the math, 1200 * 12in/ft * 0.0254 M/in = 365.76 M/s. For barrel length - 4 in * 25.4 mm/in = 101.6mm.

The 686 is built on a ruggedized medium frame and should stand up quite well to a 357 Magnum loaded to resonable levels of power. It will also most likely stand up well to a 158 grain round loaded to maximum at about 426 M/s, however 2000 to 3000 rounds per years of a load this stout will probably have you seeking surgery for the damage to your wrists the constant exposure to this much recoil will cause.

BTW, since you're shooting with an 8 3/8 inch barrel, take the numbers for a 4 inch barrel and multiply them by 1.167 to get a grasp of what your loads should chronograph out of your longer barrel. I used the 4 inch numbers because that is what most published ballistic tables for commercial ammunition are based on. The multiplier comes from a 50 Fps velocity increase for each inch of barrel length added to this 4 inch baseline and it's only a "best guess", actual results will vary due to barrel condition, B/C gap, and type of powder used for the load.
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Old 05-26-2010, 02:38 PM
piece piece is offline
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[langtitle=sv]Heavy mag loads in a 686-3 8 3/8"[/langtitle] [langtitle=sv]Heavy mag loads in a 686-3 8 3/8"[/langtitle] [langtitle=sv]Heavy mag loads in a 686-3 8 3/8"[/langtitle] [langtitle=sv]Heavy mag loads in a 686-3 8 3/8"[/langtitle] [langtitle=sv]Heavy mag loads in a 686-3 8 3/8"[/langtitle]  
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I get somwere around 1480-1520Fps in my chrony on this load.
The amount of shots is fired in approx 8months du to snow issues rest of the year. Ive done this the past years, but im told that the gun maybe not would appeciate it wery much. My wrists still surwive for some strage reason, there is also fired approx 1500-2000 shots in my M29 .44mag this one is loaded with Hornady XTP 240gr bullets and 21,5gr VV N-110 with makes 1380-1420Fps. So input on this load is also of interest. People here tells me to get Rugers because they wont break, i like my S&W guns, and I would love to stay with them if they hold. If not maybe I will shoot them less.
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Old 05-26-2010, 06:03 PM
scooter123 scooter123 is offline
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In my opinion, 1400 fps from an 8 3/8 inch barrel shouldn't cause any major issues with your 686. In time you will have to have the endshake corrected when it becomes excessive but I think that's just part of enjoying a revolver. However, without knowing the barrel length of your M29, that 240 grain load running at 1400 fps might be a bit too much. If your getting that velocity from a 4 inch barrel, I would suggest backing it down to about 1200 fps. If it's from an 8 3/8 inch, or longer barrel, it should be just fine as long as you pay attention to the endshake.
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Old 05-27-2010, 03:47 AM
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[langtitle=sv]Heavy mag loads in a 686-3 8 3/8"[/langtitle] [langtitle=sv]Heavy mag loads in a 686-3 8 3/8"[/langtitle] [langtitle=sv]Heavy mag loads in a 686-3 8 3/8"[/langtitle] [langtitle=sv]Heavy mag loads in a 686-3 8 3/8"[/langtitle] [langtitle=sv]Heavy mag loads in a 686-3 8 3/8"[/langtitle]  
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The M29 is a -3 as well with a 8 3/8" barrel.
Could someone explain "endshake" to me?
And what to do when/if it is to big.
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Old 05-27-2010, 08:06 AM
Bendutro Bendutro is offline
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[langtitle=sv]Heavy mag loads in a 686-3 8 3/8"[/langtitle] [langtitle=sv]Heavy mag loads in a 686-3 8 3/8"[/langtitle] [langtitle=sv]Heavy mag loads in a 686-3 8 3/8"[/langtitle] [langtitle=sv]Heavy mag loads in a 686-3 8 3/8"[/langtitle] [langtitle=sv]Heavy mag loads in a 686-3 8 3/8"[/langtitle]  
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Endshake is the axial slop allowing a fore and aft rock or slide of the cylinder in the yoke.
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Old 05-27-2010, 09:27 AM
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[langtitle=sv]Heavy mag loads in a 686-3 8 3/8"[/langtitle] [langtitle=sv]Heavy mag loads in a 686-3 8 3/8"[/langtitle] [langtitle=sv]Heavy mag loads in a 686-3 8 3/8"[/langtitle] [langtitle=sv]Heavy mag loads in a 686-3 8 3/8"[/langtitle] [langtitle=sv]Heavy mag loads in a 686-3 8 3/8"[/langtitle]  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bendutro View Post
Endshake is the axial slop allowing a fore and aft rock or slide of the cylinder in the yoke.
How will I adjust and mesaure this?
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Old 05-27-2010, 12:11 PM
RidgwayCO RidgwayCO is offline
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[langtitle=sv]Heavy mag loads in a 686-3 8 3/8"[/langtitle] [langtitle=sv]Heavy mag loads in a 686-3 8 3/8"[/langtitle] [langtitle=sv]Heavy mag loads in a 686-3 8 3/8"[/langtitle] [langtitle=sv]Heavy mag loads in a 686-3 8 3/8"[/langtitle] [langtitle=sv]Heavy mag loads in a 686-3 8 3/8"[/langtitle]  
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Be aware, Speer #14 says that the maximum load with that bullet in the .357 Magnum is 15.0gr of VV N110. QuickLOAD says your 15.5gr load is OK (32,326 psi) predicting 1588 fps from your 8-3/8" barrel (1.570" COL with the Speer 158gr JSP (#4217), and a standard SP primer).

Personally, I'd back the load down to 15.0gr (the Speer #14 maximum) and enjoy the ~1500 fps performance. Your M686 should be just fine with this load. The L frame was designed to correct the perceived deficiencies of the K frame with fire-breathing 110gr and 125gr loads.
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Old 05-27-2010, 03:48 PM
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[langtitle=sv]Heavy mag loads in a 686-3 8 3/8"[/langtitle] [langtitle=sv]Heavy mag loads in a 686-3 8 3/8"[/langtitle] [langtitle=sv]Heavy mag loads in a 686-3 8 3/8"[/langtitle] [langtitle=sv]Heavy mag loads in a 686-3 8 3/8"[/langtitle] [langtitle=sv]Heavy mag loads in a 686-3 8 3/8"[/langtitle]  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RidgwayCO View Post
Be aware, Speer #14 says that the maximum load with that bullet in the .357 Magnum is 15.0gr of VV N110. QuickLOAD says your 15.5gr load is OK (32,326 psi) predicting 1588 fps from your 8-3/8" barrel (1.570" COL with the Speer 158gr JSP (#4217), and a standard SP primer).

Personally, I'd back the load down to 15.0gr (the Speer #14 maximum) and enjoy the ~1500 fps performance.
Interesting, because VV manual say 15,1-15,9gr for Speer JHP 158gr.
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  #10  
Old 05-27-2010, 06:17 PM
scooter123 scooter123 is offline
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Endshake is checked by using shims to determine the Barrel cylinder gap with the cylinder held pressed toward the front and with the cylinder held pressed towards the rear. The difference between the two shims that will slide into the gap with a slight amount of drag is the Endshake. Normal range is 0.001 to 0.002 inches and at about 0.003 inches or more, the pistol will require some attention. However, revolvers with a somewhat wide B/C gap can tolerate a bit more endshake than a revolver with a very narrow B/C gap. My personal rule of thumb is that endshake should be corrected when the B/C gap checks at 0.004 inch or less with the cylinder held forward AND the endshake is 0.003 inch or less.

There are two methods that are commonly used to correct Enddshake.

One is the quick and dirty method of inserting a shim into the cylinder so that it's between the crane shaft that fits into the cylinder and the bottom of the bore for the crane in the cylinder. While it does work to reduce Endshake, it is also a bit of a Kludge and you can only work in the graduation steps at which shims are available.

The second method is to lightly peen the crane shaft that fits into the cylinder. This is done over a tight fitting arbor on an anvil in a specific area that is provided for this purpose. When you peen the proper area, it thins the shaft slightly and the material produce by this wall thinning lengthens the shaft. This is called "Stretching the Crane" and it takes a bit of an artist to do it properly. It's also recomended that the shaft is peened so that the amount of stretch is 0.005 to 0.008 inch in excess of the amount needed to correct the endshake. Then the face of the cylinder shaft is hand fitted using a facing cutter to obtain the perfect fitted dimension. The inner diameter of the crane shaft will also require reaming to size after the peening operation in order to restore it to size.

As for why Endshake sould be corrected, it's because when it becomes excessive it can cause the cylinder face to bind on the rear face of the barrel. As rounds are fired, the casings are pushed back against the recoil shield and will generally stick in that position due to carbon buildup in the chambers. This has the effect of pushing the cylinder forward, so if there is enough endhake present to permit the face of the cylinder to hit that barrel, it will cause the cylinder to start binding up. If it's really excessive, it will cause the rear of the barrel and the face of the cylinder to take a pretty good beating as each round is fired.

Last edited by scooter123; 05-27-2010 at 06:27 PM.
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Tags
357 magnum, 686, chronograph, commercial, endshake, hornady, k frame, l frame, m29, m686, model 29, model 686, primer

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