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S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present All NON-PINNED Barrels, the L-Frames, and the New Era Revolvers


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Old 04-26-2010, 12:17 AM
OVERTHEHILLGUY OVERTHEHILLGUY is offline
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Some one please tell me about S&W making two piece barrels.
True or false? Why would they do that? Jerry
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Old 04-26-2010, 12:55 AM
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Absolutely TRUE.

Most folks will tell you that it is because it allows the firearm to be produced for less money. This is mainly due to the savings in assembly cost. Traditionalists hate the design. I admit it is not a elegant as the one piece barrel.

However, as a bonus it increases the accuracy of the firearm. The tensioned barrel concept has been in use by Dan Wesson for decades. Their patent expired several years ago.

Uniformity in B/C gap from revolver to revolver has also been improved with the multi piece design.

The multi piece barrel assemblies (2, 3 or 4 pieces) are producing some outstandingly accurate revolvers. My 2" and 5" 327s are fantastic (both 3 pieces). I have at lease 6 other multi piece barrel assembly S&Ws and all are GREAT performers.
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Old 04-26-2010, 12:59 AM
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Jerry, just to begin the answers (and I don't know much about this topic) I know they've begun to do this within the last few years on certain revolver models where weight is a factor but it also saves manufacturing costs as well. The idea is to have a light weight metal shroud around a rifled steel inner lining or core.....again, to save weight. I believe this particular line of revolvers have scandium alloy frames and barrel shrouds and stainless steel cylinders and, I think, stainless steel barrels within the shroud. I believe the "Night Guard" series are made like that.

You can check the S&W website and look at the "Night Guard" series and see, but I don't think the technicals will mention anything about the two-piece barrels.

Hoping other more knowledgeable folks will chime in here.
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Old 04-26-2010, 02:05 AM
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Sounds as if one great big bill of goods has been sold to some misinformed believers! Sleeved barrels are nothing new and were tested among the precision rifle shooting community over 20 years ago. Since that time they have been reintroduced and tested time and time again yielding the same results - not so good. There is absolutely no advantage to sleeved barrels with the exception of weight reduction - period. The rifle bench rest community clearly found that not only accuracy was not improved but conversely it diminished with sleeved barrels due to an interference with harmonics. Testing results of handguns (when using standard mechanical accuracy testing fixtures) have shown that absolutely no improvement in accuracy has resulted. However, it was not diminished as with rifles barrels merely because the impact upon barrel harmonics is reduced with shortened barrel lengths. I would wager, however, that there may be a negative impact upon an 8 3/8" or longer barrel. Unquestionably whether or not a barrel is sleeved has nothing to do with the throating, chambering or fit and alignment.
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Old 04-26-2010, 05:27 AM
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Originally Posted by firearmsunlimited View Post
Sounds as if one great big bill of goods has been sold to some misinformed believers! Sleeved barrels are nothing new and were tested among the precision rifle shooting community over 20 years ago. Since that time they have been reintroduced and tested time and time again yielding the same results - not so good. There is absolutely no advantage to sleeved barrels with the exception of weight reduction - period. The rifle bench rest community clearly found that not only accuracy was not improved but conversely it diminished with sleeved barrels due to an interference with harmonics. Testing results of handguns (when using standard mechanical accuracy testing fixtures) have shown that absolutely no improvement in accuracy has resulted. However, it was not diminished as with rifles barrels merely because the impact upon barrel harmonics is reduced with shortened barrel lengths. I would wager, however, that there may be a negative impact upon an 8 3/8" or longer barrel. Unquestionably whether or not a barrel is sleeved has nothing to do with the throating, chambering or fit and alignment.
The problem with your analysis is that it has nothing to do with S&W.

S&W does not use sleeved barrels, they use tensioned barrels.

Precision rifle makers like Volquartsen and others have proven the performance advantages of tensioned barrels time and again over the last several decades.
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Old 04-26-2010, 08:22 AM
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Hi guys, Thanks for all the great information. Jerry
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Old 04-26-2010, 10:24 AM
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If you do a forum search, you will find some photos and discussion about complete failures of the sleeved/tension/multi-piece/whatever barrels in normal service. For example, the barrel literally falling off the gun! If that is an improved product, I'll stick with the unimproved version. I realize there may be some theoretical accuracy advantages to these new barrels, but I am not sure that means very much to the average revolver shooter.

S&W Blow-up? Fall off?/2 pics

New style barrels
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Old 04-26-2010, 12:39 PM
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The sky is falling, the sky is falling!!!

A major maker had "normal" barrels falling off the revolvers (due to using the wrong lubricant when assembling them). "Stuff" happens...

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a two piece barrel. If you don't like them, then don't buy them. However, slamming them for sheer prejudice is pathetic.

I'm pretty happy with my example:



FWIW
Dale53
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Old 04-26-2010, 12:55 PM
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Dale,
I agree with you AND what type of wood grips is that?
Steve

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Old 04-26-2010, 01:12 PM
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My only experiance with them has been the model 64's (not 65's )that lost barrels..while working with the NC DOC.
That my friend is not a internet myth..I saw it with my own eyes.
Like anything else ,I'm sure they have made inprovements and the newer guns are improved but I humbly submit I'd not own one .

Patrick
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Old 04-26-2010, 01:28 PM
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Anyone got a copy of that memo from S&W to dealers telling them the two piece barrels were being discontinued? It was posted here about six months ago.

Wonder why S&W is cancelling these "wonderful innovations"?
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Old 04-29-2010, 11:31 PM
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Anyone got a copy of that memo from S&W to dealers telling them the two piece barrels were being discontinued? It was posted here about six months ago.

Wonder why S&W is cancelling these "wonderful innovations"?
Gee, does that mean they are going to discontinue "tensioned" barrels after they have been proven for decades to be so outstanding by a company that specializes in .22 rim fire barrels. Let's see, sleeved or tensioned - isn't that a matter of semantics? Why that must mean that Krieger, Shilen, Hart, Lilja, BarSto, Douglas and Pac Nor just don't understand barrel making.
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Old 04-30-2010, 12:29 AM
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The problem with your analysis is that it has nothing to do with S&W.

S&W does not use sleeved barrels, they use tensioned barrels.

Precision rifle makers like Volquartsen and others have proven the performance advantages of tensioned barrels time and again over the last several decades.
Clearly you shouldn't dis another poster's opinion when you obviously have no conception or understanding of how certain internal and external stimuli impact the yield of something. To make the statement that: "your analysis has nothing to do with S&W" is ridiculous. If S&W uses barrels on the firearms everything in my analysis is completely applicable. Possibly you are under the convoluted impression that there is some significant difference between rifle and pistol barrels that makes pistol barrels exempt from the normal stimuli effects that impact accuracy.

Further more you should be a little more careful about misleading statements like "not sleeved - tensioned." Here is a quote from your beloved Volquartsen barrel company, who buy the way, only specializes in .22 rim fire barrels:

"The carbon fiber or aluminum sleeve is “tensioned” on the barrel to provide a very rigid, accurate, lightweight barrel. This is the ultimate lightweight barrel in terms of accuracy and functioning." I believe that they used the word "SLEEVE" didn't they?

Of the major barrel makers who are renowned for accuracy, namely: Kreiger, Shilen, Hart, Lilja, Douglas, BarSto and PacNor be advised that NONE of them produce SLEEVED barrels. Maybe you could send them your dissertation on the virtues of barrel SLEEVES that are tensioned to the barrel and they will modify their thinking about how accuracy barrels should be manufactured.
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Old 04-30-2010, 12:48 AM
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Sleeved traditionally has a different meaning from "tensioned" when applied to handgun (and rifle) barrels. Sleeved generally means a rifled insert in either a shot-out & drilled-out bore, or a steel insert in an otherwise synthetic barrel. The inserts are not usually user removable.

Tensioned traditionally means a removable rifled tube in a handgun barrel shroud that's supported at both ends by a method of applying pressure at the muzzle to create tension at the rearward point of contact.

The two actually are, within their traditional meaning & usage, quite different.
Sleeves are normally pressure fitted & held in place by some sort of tight friction fit, glue, and/or soldering. They are not normally threaded for retention.
Tensioned HANDGUN barrels are only retained in place by either a muzzle nut (DW) or a muzzle flange (S&W), and they are retained by some type of threading at one end.

There is obviously some overlap depending on how a given company may choose to describe its products.

S&W IS dropping the two-piece barrel on at least two revolvers, and where the idea will go from there is unknown.

S&W's method is also quite different from the older Dan Wesson method, and is not user adjusted, removed, or replaced.

Denis
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Old 04-30-2010, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale53 View Post
The sky is falling, the sky is falling!!!

A major maker had "normal" barrels falling off the revolvers (due to using the wrong lubricant when assembling them). "Stuff" happens...

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a two piece barrel. If you don't like them, then don't buy them. However, slamming them for sheer prejudice is pathetic.

I'm pretty happy with my example:



FWIW
Dale53
Dale53,
What is the make and brand of that red dot scope you use? Is it any good? Thanks for your help.
Cary
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Old 04-30-2010, 11:03 AM
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Old 04-30-2010, 03:09 PM
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+1 still interesting though.
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Old 04-30-2010, 11:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n4zov View Post
If you do a forum search, you will find some photos and discussion about complete failures of the sleeved/tension/multi-piece/whatever barrels in normal service. For example, the barrel literally falling off the gun! If that is an improved product, I'll stick with the unimproved version. I realize there may be some theoretical accuracy advantages to these new barrels, but I am not sure that means very much to the average revolver shooter.

S&W Blow-up? Fall off?/2 pics

New style barrels
Maybe you should look at the photo more closely. That is not a 2 piece barrel. It is an L frame with a conventional barrel that separated from the frame due to a failure of the metal at the base of the threads. The gun is in two pieces, but it was a conventional one piece barrel.
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Old 05-01-2010, 12:19 AM
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Originally Posted by firearmsunlimited View Post
Clearly you shouldn't dis another poster's opinion when you obviously have no conception or understanding of how certain internal and external stimuli impact the yield of something. To make the statement that: "your analysis has nothing to do with S&W" is ridiculous. If S&W uses barrels on the firearms everything in my analysis is completely applicable. Possibly you are under the convoluted impression that there is some significant difference between rifle and pistol barrels that makes pistol barrels exempt from the normal stimuli effects that impact accuracy.

Further more you should be a little more careful about misleading statements like "not sleeved - tensioned." Here is a quote from your beloved Volquartsen barrel company, who buy the way, only specializes in .22 rim fire barrels:

"The carbon fiber or aluminum sleeve is “tensioned” on the barrel to provide a very rigid, accurate, lightweight barrel. This is the ultimate lightweight barrel in terms of accuracy and functioning." I believe that they used the word "SLEEVE" didn't they?

Of the major barrel makers who are renowned for accuracy, namely: Kreiger, Shilen, Hart, Lilja, Douglas, BarSto and PacNor be advised that NONE of them produce SLEEVED barrels. Maybe you could send them your dissertation on the virtues of barrel SLEEVES that are tensioned to the barrel and they will modify their thinking about how accuracy barrels should be manufactured.
WOW. I have seen nerves get touched on unenlightened folks in the past, but I have never seen anyone blow up like you have. Where does all this anger come from?

I am glad that your brief reading of my posts during your short tenure on this fine forum has told you everything about my conceptions and understandings of stimuli. Or do you always resort to insults as your first tactic when you are on the wrong end of a intellectual conversation?

The quote "your beloved Volquartsen barrel company" is another stretch of your imagination. How have you ascertained how I feel about Volquartsen?

You actually went looking for a single word from Volquartsen that you could quote out of context in order to prove your point? You must have lots more free time on your hands than most working people.

Just because a barrel assembly contains a sleeve among it's parts list does not make it a sleeved barrel. Sleeved and tensioned barrels are different concepts.

Other forum members have already posted trying to explain to you the differences between traditional sleeved barrels and traditional tensioned barrels. We will see if you choose to open your eyes and learn a new fact or just remain stubborn and in the dark.
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Old 05-01-2010, 09:48 AM
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I'm surprized that the Dan Wesson revolvers haven't been discussed yet. They all featured a tensioned barrel and were renowned for their accuracy and dominated silhouette shooting for at least 30 years and some still use them. BTW, Dan Wesson was the grandson of one of S&W's founders and went out on his own when the company showed no interest in his concept of a barrel mounted under tension within a surrounding shroud. Since Dan Wesson firearms were a pretty small operation, at many times the Quality of the guns produced was determined by the cash on hand in the company coffers. So, many times during DW's history there were guns produced thatt required the attention of a good gunsmith before the first shot could be fired. Mis-timed guns, guns with out of square cylinder faces, and badly machined chambers were common complaints. In spite of all these issues, silhouette shooters kept on buying them because there wasn't another revolver made that could even approach the accuracy of a DW that was set up properly.

Fact is, a simple Engineering Statics and Dynamics analysis will reveal that a barrel under tension and supported at each end will be less prone to movement when a round is fired through it and less sensitive to harmonics. This means that the barrel will be more accurate than a one piece barrel and less sensitive to bullet weight and velocity.

S&W's 2 piece barrels are basically a copy of the concept that Dan Wesson first tried to interest the company in back in the late 60's. However, it's been modified from the original Dan Wesson design in that the barrel is formed with a flanged cap at the end of the barrel that engages the barrel shroud. Dan Wesson revolvers were threaded into the frame and retained at the end of the shroud by a nut that threaded onto the end of the barrel. This allowed the Barrel/Cylinder gap to be set and adjusted by the user in the field in order to optimize accuracy. Unfortunately, this also allowed the shooter to mal-adjust that B/C gap and I suspect that this is the reason why S&W changed to a capped barrel and also why CZ USA has chosen to halt production of the Dan Wesson revolvers. Basically, liability concerns have taken the option of an adjustable B/C gap out of the hands of a shooter.

Now, I happen to own a S&W model 620, which uses a 2 piece barrel and I believe that it's the most accurate S&W that I own. On 2 seperate occasions I've manage 3 shot cloverleafs at 30 feet with it that could be completely covered with a dime. However, that was with the iron sights and I've recently discovered the benefits of optics. Ive also started using a nearby indoor 50 yard rifle range for long range practice with my 610 and 617. Sometime in the next month I'll be purchasing a J Point reflex in a direct mount for the 610 and plan on trying it out on the 620. At which point I'll get a better idea if the 620 can shoot with my 6 inch 617 at 100 feet, the longest distance at which my old eyes can still see the contrasting bullseye on an 8 inch shoot-n-c in the poor lighting at this range. I suspect I'll find the 620 is capable of shooting well under 2 inches, my limit with the 617, at this range and may even get down to an inch or less.

Fact is, these barrels produce a revolver with accuracy that borders on stunning. Frankly, I suspect in the coming years the 620 will become a bit of a collectable once enough people catch on to the accuracy that this model is capable of. I also suspect that the reason that the 2 piece barrels are being dropped from some guns is that they cost more to produce. Unlike some who state that these are a cost cutting scheme, I happen to have been directly involved in Manufacturing since 1982 as a Manufacturing and Design Engineer. So, I am well acquainted with the costs that are incurred as parts counts are increased. There are overhead costs for each part that many ourside the field don't account for, such as the requirement for Quality control measures and inventory tracking. S&W may have implemented this design by analyzing just the Machining costs and have now found that when the costs for ISO 9000 implementation are added in, the higher parts count for the 2 piece barrels don't actually result in a cost savings. It's also a fact that the 2 piece barrels on the models that used these barrels were not well recieved by some shooters.

IMO, it's a loss for us shooters. We've not only lost the potential for accuracy these barrels can exhibit, we've also lost some of the drive for improvement that S&W exhibited when they tried makings guns with this feature. BTW, one thing I have found in using my 610, which has a 1 piece barrel, is that the one piece barrels are EXTREMELY sensitive to being "sandbagged". If you want to make a fairly accurate gun shoot miserably, try resting the muzzle of a 610 on a sandbag, groupings will quickly open up from 2.5 to 3 inches to well over 5 inches at 100 feet. I suspect that the sandbag interferes with the barrel harmonics at the muzzle end. Personally, I wish that the 2 piece barrels had been widely accepted and acclaimed, because I would love to have one on my 610.
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Old 05-01-2010, 10:20 AM
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The two piece barrel was developed by Herb Belin, S&W Handgun Product Manager for the X-Frame 500 to add strength for the big new cartridge it fires. A conventional S&W barrel is supported only at the barrel/frame interface with a crush fit while the two piece is supported at both ends. Since the interface at the forcing cone is not stressed it is also stronger there. The better accuracy is an additional benefit.

I am not an internet engineer, or even a regular one. I do, however, assume that S&W and Herb Belin know more about designing guns than I so I take their word for the benefits of the two piece barrel. I guess one could argue about the benefits on a gun designed for a lesser cartridge than the Model 500 but am unsure. Therefore, I am not going to embarrass myself with any conjecture.

Bob
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Old 05-01-2010, 01:25 PM
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As noted, the S&W flange-barrels are non-user-adjustable, and done quite differently from the old DWs.


While the idea & approach used may have some merit in the .500, in the smaller calibers I'd argue in favor of it being a money issue more than any attempt at a product improvement, despite the issues related to production & inventory of two parts where previously the barrel was one part.

Advantages to the maker are that (like several other areas of current production such as MIM parts) the flange-barrels reduce assembly time, which reduces human paid-salary time.
The shroud can be cast, reducing machine maintenance (cutter heads) and related machining costs. The barrel "tube" is quicker to machine on a CNC center (being essentially a simple tube with a flange) than the more complicated shapes in a standard barrel.

Because the barrel shroud indexes itself into the frame, there is a slight advantage to the buyer in that it's pretty much not possible to turn out a canted front sight.

Otherwise, the flange-barrel involves some very distinct disadvantages to the buyer in that, should certain types of barrel work be needed or desired, your local gunsmith can no longer do it.
The flange-barrels are installed, tightened to a gauged depth, and/or removed the same way, by a wrench that fits inside the bore. S&W won't make that wrench available to anybody outside the company. That means if your flange-barrel has problems that need correcting, chances are your local guy can't do it. He can't do any custom work on a gun that requires removing the barrel, such as shortening it, or setting it back a turn or two to help correct a long barrel/cylinder gap. And so on.
Granted, the majority of flange-barrel buyers may never need work done on them, but....

As far as accuracy goes, I shot a flange-barreled 67 last year and found it was no better than a conventional barrel. Others may differ, but that was my experience.

Another note to consider about the S&W approach vs the DW approach is that while the DW action never impressed me I've never heard of a DW barrel breaking off.

S&W has dropped the flange-barrel in the 67 & (I believe) the 64, and that has to be for compelling reasons. They weren't working out, either as far as customer reception, performance, or durability goes, to a point where S&W wanted to keep them going.

Comparing the S&W flange-barrels to the DW barrels involves only a similarity in principle, with quite different executions.


Denis
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Old 05-01-2010, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
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Comparing the S&W flange-barrels to the DW barrels involves only a similarity in principle, with quite different executions.

Denis
Denis,
That is not true of all of the S&W multi-piece barrel designs. Certainly it applies to the 500s, 460s and snubbies and all of the other 2 piece designs. I agree that the driving force here was probably the reduction of the hand fitting time.

However, S&W also employed 3 and 4 piece designs (virtually identical to DW). My two early 327s are 3 pieces. There is a tube, shroud and an end nut for the muzzle side.


I could easily disassemble it with a spanner wrench. The factory may have been toying with the idea of selling barrel assemblies early on. I missed SHOT this year so it has been a while since I looked at a current production 327 to see if the design has changed or not.

The 4 piece design added a false muzzle cap pressed in place to hide the barrel nut. I can not recall which models had this configuration off the top of my head.
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Old 05-01-2010, 03:14 PM
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You do remind me of a TR .45 ACP revolver I tried a while back that had a removable barrel nut, my apologies for overlooking it.

Main topic of discussion here has been the flangebarrels, though.

The only new Smith I looked at in passing during SHOT this year was that polymer .38 out of curiosity. In recent years my interest in the directions they're taking with the more esoteric revolver variations has dwindled greatly.

Denis
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Old 05-01-2010, 11:12 PM
R. G. Amos R. G. Amos is offline
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This is not an issue of statics or dynamics (at least not conventional) but one of vibrations. Tensioning the barrel will indeed reduce the vibration response but so will increasing the wall thickness of the barrel. On the one hand you have a relatively thin-walled barrel that is tensioned and on the other a relatively thick-walled barrel that is not tensioned. Which offers the most favorable vibration response for a particular configuration is not immediately obvious. My guess is that with the two-piece barrels S&W was not after enhanced accuracy but reduced manufacturing cost. Whether they also enhanced accuracy by doing so, is beyond my present day ability to calculate.
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Old 05-02-2010, 01:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colt_saa View Post
WOW. I have seen nerves get touched on unenlightened folks in the past, but I have never seen anyone blow up like you have. Where does all this anger come from?

I am glad that your brief reading of my posts during your short tenure on this fine forum has told you everything about my conceptions and understandings of stimuli. Or do you always resort to insults as your first tactic when you are on the wrong end of a intellectual conversation?

The quote "your beloved Volquartsen barrel company" is another stretch of your imagination. How have you ascertained how I feel about Volquartsen?

You actually went looking for a single word from Volquartsen that you could quote out of context in order to prove your point? You must have lots more free time on your hands than most working people.

Just because a barrel assembly contains a sleeve among it's parts list does not make it a sleeved barrel. Sleeved and tensioned barrels are different concepts.

Other forum members have already posted trying to explain to you the differences between traditional sleeved barrels and traditional tensioned barrels. We will see if you choose to open your eyes and learn a new fact or just remain stubborn and in the dark.
Well Pal, let's start with your first snipe at my initial post. You made the comment:
"The problem with your analysis is that it has nothing to do with S&W. S&W does not use sleeved barrels, they use tensioned barrels.
Precision rifle makers like Volquartsen and others have proven the performance advantages of tensioned barrels time and again over the last several decades." Unquestionably this indicates that you do not understand or have any conception of what transpires in a barrel during ignition and throughout the complete process during the bullet's travel until it exits ie: stimuli. The theoretical effects are the same be it a hand gun barrel or rifle barrel. So, my analysis did have something to do with S&W barrels and in fact all barrels. In your second sentence you choose to throw out the manufacture name Volquartsen. Was that because of your unfamiliarity with any of the manufacturers that actually chamber barrels for something other than .22 rim fire? Clearly it was the only manufacture that you could mention to attempt to support your opinion on tensioning attachments and accuracy because as I previously stated many of the precision barrel makers have experimented with sleeved and/or tensioned barrels and found the concept to produce unacceptable accuracy results and accomplished nothing other than weight reduction. You also said "Volquartsen and others have proven the performance advantages of tensioned barrels time and again over the last several decades." Just exactly who are those "others?"

Concerning your comment that: "do you always resort to insults as your first tactic when you are on the wrong end of a intellectual conversation?" Let me remind you that you were the first to insult my post. It was not the other way around. If you don't like the response after posting your feeble little comments may be you should limit your commentary on the posts made by others. As it relates to being on the "wrong end of a intellectual conversation," I would submit that I have not seen anything intellectual posted by you in this thread.

In conclusion, it boggles the mind that you can not comprehend the fact that if a barrel is comprised of (1) a tube and (2) a sleeve, it is a sleeved barrel. It does not matter if the connections and attachments are made by epoxy, friction fit or bubble gum as it is still and always will be considered a sleeved barrel. Tensioning is the attachment method to secure part (1) and part (2) together. You may want to read the description of manufacturing and barrel assembly posted in the Volquartsen web site. Remember, the manufacturer that you used in an effort to support your initial pragmatic statements.

Hey, there is no anger here Pal. I truly hope that you enjoy your sleeved/tensioned barrel gun. And by the way, have a wonderful day!
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Old 05-02-2010, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by firearmsunlimited View Post
Well Pal, let's start with your first snipe at my initial post. You made the comment:
"The problem with your analysis is that it has nothing to do with S&W. S&W does not use sleeved barrels, they use tensioned barrels.
Precision rifle makers like Volquartsen and others have proven the performance advantages of tensioned barrels time and again over the last several decades." Unquestionably this indicates that you do not understand or have any conception of what transpires in a barrel during ignition and throughout the complete process during the bullet's travel until it exits ie: stimuli. The theoretical effects are the same be it a hand gun barrel or rifle barrel. So, my analysis did have something to do with S&W barrels and in fact all barrels. In your second sentence you choose to throw out the manufacture name Volquartsen. Was that because of your unfamiliarity with any of the manufacturers that actually chamber barrels for something other than .22 rim fire? Clearly it was the only manufacture that you could mention to attempt to support your opinion on tensioning attachments and accuracy because as I previously stated many of the precision barrel makers have experimented with sleeved and/or tensioned barrels and found the concept to produce unacceptable accuracy results and accomplished nothing other than weight reduction. You also said "Volquartsen and others have proven the performance advantages of tensioned barrels time and again over the last several decades." Just exactly who are those "others?"

Concerning your comment that: "do you always resort to insults as your first tactic when you are on the wrong end of a intellectual conversation?" Let me remind you that you were the first to insult my post. It was not the other way around. If you don't like the response after posting your feeble little comments may be you should limit your commentary on the posts made by others. As it relates to being on the "wrong end of a intellectual conversation," I would submit that I have not seen anything intellectual posted by you in this thread.

In conclusion, it boggles the mind that you can not comprehend the fact that if a barrel is comprised of (1) a tube and (2) a sleeve, it is a sleeved barrel. It does not matter if the connections and attachments are made by epoxy, friction fit or bubble gum as it is still and always will be considered a sleeved barrel. Tensioning is the attachment method to secure part (1) and part (2) together. You may want to read the description of manufacturing and barrel assembly posted in the Volquartsen web site. Remember, the manufacturer that you used in an effort to support your initial pragmatic statements.

Hey, there is no anger here Pal. I truly hope that you enjoy your sleeved/tensioned barrel gun. And by the way, have a wonderful day!
When did I become your Pal? Your posts certainly make me chuckle.

Let's clear the air. I apologize if you took my 2nd post to this thread as a personal insult or attack toward you. It was not meant to come off that way and reading it I still do not see anywhere that it was an insult. Let me rephrase that first post. You are WRONG. There, now it clearly is a statement and not an insult.

You want some others that have used tensioned barrels with great success over the decades, OK. There is Dan Wesson, Clark and Cylinder & Slide just to give you three more. How many manufacturers successfully use tensioned barrels is not the point. The point is that you still do not want to learn or accept the difference between a sleeved barrel and a tensioned barrel.

But then you appear to not understand the difference between an insult and a statement/comment either. My statement "The problem with your analysis is that it has nothing to do with S&W" addresses your post, not you the person. There is nothing sarcastic or contemptuous toward you in that comment.

On the other hand this is an insult "Sounds as if one great big bill of goods has been sold to some misinformed believers" as you are attacking the person(s) by calling them "misinformed believers" instead of presenting helpful information on the subject at hand.

Here is another insult "Clearly you shouldn't dis another poster's opinion when you obviously have no conception or understanding of how certain internal and external stimuli impact the yield of something" as you are attacking a persons knowledge and education instead of discussing facts. BTW, what kind of person uses the term "dis" instead of real words?

Here is another example of an insult "Unquestionably this indicates that you do not understand or have any conception of what transpires in a barrel during ignition and throughout the complete process during the bullet's travel until it exitsm." Can you see the difference between comments and insults yet? BTW, where have you come to learn about my education or expertise in the sciences of internal ballistics or Physics? However, that is not even a relevant point, because we have never been talking about sleeved vs. non-sleeved rifle barrels. We have been talking about multi-piece barrel assemblies in S&W handguns.

The tactic that you are using of not answering the question asked and making a comment along a different line is referred to as "Bump and Run." This is a long time favorite of politicians in the Democrat party just watch any National Sunday morning news show and you will easily recognize it's use over and over. The obvious goal is to change the subject.

Now you state "In conclusion, it boggles the mind that you can not comprehend the fact that if a barrel is comprised of (1) a tube and (2) a sleeve, it is a sleeved barrel." By your logic, would this not be properly called a tubed barrel? After all the tube, not the sleeve is listed as the #1 part.

Now please go and re-read your posts. Perhaps you will recognize that your writing style comes off as full of sarcasm at the least and anger, vitriol or contempt at the worst. Instead your posts should be providing helpful information on the topic. Perhaps this is a misconception on my part and you just do not know how to verbalize your thoughts in a friendly manor? I do not know much about your writing skills beyond the examples posted here.
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Old 10-10-2014, 08:25 PM
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Don't play together if you can't get along.
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Old 10-10-2014, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
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S&W has dropped the flange-barrel in the 67 & (I believe) the 64, and that has to be for compelling reasons. They weren't working out, either as far as customer reception, performance, or durability goes, to a point where S&W wanted to keep them going. Denis
The most recent factory new 64s and 67s I have received from the distributor still had the two-piece barrels. The new Models 66 and 69 introduced this year also have two-piece barrels, albeit a slightly different design.
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Old 10-10-2014, 08:44 PM
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Don't play together if you can't get along.
This thread is FOUR YEARS OLD. Do you think they are reading your post?
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Old 10-12-2014, 07:43 AM
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The barrel in the scandium and titanium guns is a barrel sleeve. It's not anywhere near as accurate as the 36's and 37's. I bought one of the new performance center guns with the two piece barrel. If you stick your finger on the muzzle of them it's like the rifling almost protrudes and will cut your finger. I bought one of the new 29's several years ago in 4 inch. The crown was not right. You could also run your finger over the barrel and feel the rough cuts. I don't like them. Not a great pic but you can see the rough lands.
JR

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Old 04-01-2019, 12:39 PM
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Default S&W Model 60-18 Barrel replacement.

I have a 357 S&W Model 60-18 with a Bulge in the barrel. I sent it to SW and they returned it unrepaired with no explanation on the receipt. I received a call informing me that they made the barrels for a very short time and are discontinued.... OK now what? Does anybody have a source for these barrels or know a smith that will tackle this issue?
George Spaulding [email protected]
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Old 04-01-2019, 12:59 PM
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Some are made by Lothar-Walther near Atlanta Ga. Actually three piece

barrels..1-inner liner.. 2-barrel shroud... 3-threaded nut/tensioner...

l doubt they are cheaper tho.. Lothar-Walther makes lots of barrels for

many militaries of different countries too. Same 3 piece setup... Look

at an Abrams tank or a Paladin self propelled Howitzer..

Liner/shroud/brake... SAME setup as my 629 Magnum Hunter!!

Abrams and Paladins AIN'T cheap. My Magnum Hunter wasn't either:-(
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Old 04-01-2019, 09:00 PM
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This thread is 25 days short of being 9 years old. A lot of water under the bridge since then. Anyway, I like mine and the Dan Wesson I owned 30 years ago was quite accurate.
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Old 04-01-2019, 09:28 PM
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I own one two piece barrel. After reading this thread I still don't know what it is.

Model 65-8
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Old 04-01-2019, 11:43 PM
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Somebody dust these two guys off and get them back out here.Im grabbing a beer.
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Old 04-02-2019, 12:19 AM
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Somebody dust these two guys off and get them back out here.Im grabbing a beer.
It's fun watching a couple of gumbies wave their canes at each other till they spit out their false teeth.

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Old 04-02-2019, 12:35 AM
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I don’t own toy plastic guns, I don’t own any two piece barrels. I have k38’s and n frames no new fang dangle revolvers.

I don’t want a pickle just get off my s&w nickel.
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Old 04-02-2019, 03:45 AM
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I've read through this thread completely and I am still uncertain how many devils can dance on the head of a pin...
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