You beat me to it!!!!

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Steve

I appreciate the comments. Bear spray will be purchased, but the 2.5" 686 will be my new companion while out and about in my yard.

kbm6893,

Where in NE PA are you? I spend a good bit of time in Wyoming County in the mountains there and run across bears frequently. I know the feeling.

I'd just keep your 4" 686 and get an IWB holster. It will keep it concealed enough for the neighbors, especially with an untucked shirt, even a t-shirt.

Reason I ask where you're from is an interest in those used Ruger 3" 357s at your local dealer...what dealer? I'd be interested in chasing one of those down.

BB45C

I'm in Miford. The dealer that had the Rugers is Guns and Gold, in Milford. There were 6 Rugers there the last time I was in, now there are 2. I am almost positive a few of them were 3", but the only two left are both 2.25", a Security Six and a Speed Six. Both $325. Kind of dirty, but will clean up nicely. I splurged on a very nice 686 2.5" last night from gunbroker. Got it for $575, and it looks mint. Comes with the S&W light wood finger groove grips. Even a bit cheaper than the 66 I was looking at. So that will go with me when I hang outside.

I knew that cop. I don't recall his name, but he was a big Irish guy. And it was the Brooklyn Zoo, which was located in Prospect Park. The shot was kind of overblown because he made it while leaning over the fence into the bear cage. he was never in danger. And the bear was very close, like less than 15 feet. He was leaning down into the cage. One 158 grain FMJ round did the bear in, fired from a 4" model 10.

For those that have never felt the power of the Alaskan 454 read this its been around the forums for a few years,but its a good read.Also this was a brown bear not black

Bear Killed in Self Defense with Ruger .454 Casull Revolver - Takdriver's Forum

You specifically asked about a concealable revolver adequate for killing black bears, right?

The only thing that comes to mind for me is either the model 29 (blue) or 629 (stainless) "Mountain Gun". These have a tapered four inch barrel and shoot .44 magnum cartridges. They tend to be special runs, and they don't make 'em all the time, but you see 'em advertised fairly often on this and other boards. I got my model 29 for six hundred bucks a couple of years back, and I think they're going for a bit more than that, now. I put an XS nightsight on the front, and got the S&W "master revolver action package" done to it. Holsters, laser and other grip-stocks, and nightsights are readily available.

I got mine to carry with me around on our heavily wooded farm in Western West Virginia. Besides, it goes with the Marlin 1894 .44 lever action carbine. Only have to carry one kind of ammo.

I don't think I'd trust a .357 for black bears in an emergency. If I had time to aim carefully, sure, that would more than do it, but I carry the revolver for the sudden emergencies. But if you are going to stick with the 686, get you a Marlin lever gun in that caliber, too.

Why concealable? The bears won't "make" you carrying :-) JK

In Colorado we have a problem with bears, mountain lions and coyotes, especially in the western suburbs of Denver. I carry a 4" 629 in a Krammer forward tilt belt scabbard. I use the same holster for my 4" model 21 (44spl). The bears around here don't seem to care if I open carry or conceal carry (just kidding).

I haven't read all of the posts in the thread, but I concur with those who contend that black bears generally aren't a threat and, unless you're legally hunting you want to avoid shooting one unless absolutely a life or limb last resort.

More to the point, I took a bear last fall using a 4" model 681. This would not have been my weapon of choice (nor was the ammo I happened to have that day). We were turkey hunting, but it was the second day of bear season and I had a bear tag when we stumbled on one in a meadow.

Would I use a .357 to take a bear again? Maybe, but I agree with Matt C.'s post above -- Buffalo Bore 180 LFNGC or equivalent (a lot to handle out of a snubby). Would I want to rely on a .357 against a charging bear at close range in a self defense situation? Not unless it's a mismarked .44 or .45LC.

I absolutely would not shoot one unless I had to. I don't even hunt. I swerve the car when a squirell is in the road! My 4" is probably a better choice, but the concealability factor for me is important. That extra 1.5" of barrel would dig into my side as I went about my yard duties. PA is an open carry state, so I could walk around like Pancho Villa with bandoleers of bullets if I wanted to, but I am a retired cop, and I know most burglaries occur because people see something they want. My neighbor has a punky looking teenage boy who hangs out with equally trashy looking low lifes, and I don't want to give them ideas. So the snubby is on the way. I've always wnated one anyway, and the wife didn't give me grief over this purchase thanks to Blacky. I have been selling guns I no longer shoot (I had three Beretta 92's for Christ sake!), so I'm still in the black with this purchase. There is just something about a revolver that I love. I could have bought one of those Rugers I saw for half the price, but for ME, half the point of owning a gun is the pride taken in owning it. They just looked too beat up to me.

On a final note, where is the best place to shoot a bear if you have the time to line up a shot? If I draw on it and then it begins the charge, should I be aiming for that small head, or that nice broad chest? If I shot it in the side because it was facing my wife or child, where is the sweet spot? Up closer to the head, or middle of the side?

Please do not be paranoid about black bears. They wander through here constantly, so we give them no reason to hang around. Bird feeders are out of the question, and so is coco shell mulch. They are stomachs that walk. Unhappily, some idiots feed them.

If you have time to carefully line up a shot, there is likely no reason to shoot. If you shoot poorly, what then? What about family members in the immediate area? What's down range and would you have time to access where bullets eventually go? If so, then you likely have no reason to shoot anyway, like I mentioned before. When the Game Protector shows up, what is the story? He won't be too happy, knowing that bear/human contacts are very common in PA and "attacks" are extremely (that is, basically non-existent) rare. Bear spray seems a better solution to feeling safer if you fear bears.

But, you have to suit yourself. I am only speaking what I think, and no warranty is expressed or implied. I am more wary about methpunks or dogs than bears. There's the unpredictable danger in northern PA.

Couldn't have said it better.

Great picture, thought it was a Methodist, late to church

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"Non sibi, sed patriae"

I have no intention of ever shooting an animal that I don't feel needs to be shot. I know if a bear charged me from behind, I'm done for. But this one was walking through my yard. In an ideal situation, I would have drawn my gun, held it ready, and backed away to the safety of my home with my wife and child. Thankfully, this bear had no interest in us. I know most of them feel the same way. But since this incident, I have researched black bear attacks, and they DO happen. I just want to take whatever precautions I can.

And as for the game warden showing up and not being happy, he can kiss my ***. I won't be happy if a person i care about gets hurt, either. Let Ranger Rick do his "investigation". I survived 20 years as a NY cop. I don't need to be second guessed by someone who wasn't even there. If i shot from my elevated deck down into my yard, I concede he would have reason to fine me. A 300 pound dangerous animal 20 feet away? I'll do what I feel is best. If I honestly feel my wife or child is in danger, i WILL fire away. He wasn't there, so I don't need to hear a lecture about what black bears USUALLY do, since that is irrelevant as to what the one that tried to attack me DID do.

Hi:
Jimmy is too old to run or fight. He is not a Hunter but is a Wimp.
A Bear close enough to spray is a Bear that is too close.
If I was in your shoes I would work in the yard with a Glock 10mm or .45
(lots of bullets) and a 12ga pump or auto loaded with slugs within a few steps. Wear a fishing vest over your holster. Uncomfortable? How many years did you wear a equipment belt and vest to "Protect and Serve"? Now the safety and welfare of you and your Family are at stake. How long are you in the yard to be uncomfortable?

I agree that a black bear is probably not going to be a threat...but it could be. A few months ago, I watched a program where a woman was interviewed about her attack by a black bear. It jumped her while she was walking home at night. Now she doesn't even mow her yard without carrying a gun.

It seems obvious that you don't 'want' to shoot an animal. If you haven't picked up the flow, what the folks are pretty much trying to say is, you're in the country now. get used to the wild life. A bit of aversion will get the curious bear out of your range. And for the most part the bears won't bother you. I think you're seeing the bears as more of a threat than they normally are.
But that doesn't mean for you to let your guard down at all. Just be prepared for less lethal methods as well as the firearm.

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Pete.

KMB,
I agree 100% with your concern about the safety of your family but, before you go about your yard duties packin' iron, I also encourage you to read up on black bears. I wouldn't call them unstable but they can be unpredictable, more so if you don't know much about them. Their numbers have been steadily increasing here in Pa for over the last 30 years, as elsewhere, and their range has been expanding as well. Since they are hunted in Pa they generally have a healthy respect for man and usually go the other way. Incidents like yours often occur with young male bears recently booted away from mama. They are out on their own looking for new territory where they are unmolested by older males. They have yet to have any bad experiences with us. A more serious concern is when bears learn to equate us with food. I don't mean literally, but as a source, through garbage cans, gardens, bird feeders and such. And it's worse if someone is purposely feeding them. They will hang around as long as the pickings are easy. So, my advice is to

1. Educate yourself and your familiy about Black bears as much as possible. There is alot of good info out there AND alot of BS too. Start with the PA game comm web site.

2. Make their experince around your home as unpleasant as possible. Don't encourage them to stay around. Loud noises (pot banging, firecrackers, yelling), bear spray, and RUBBER bullets of the 12 ga variety are more productive ways to make them leave than any handgun. (re: nonlethal weapons).

3. Realise that if you need to use deadly force, several twelve ga slugs are your best close range choice. Hang a shotgun up out of reach of the young ones but close by and carry a couple slugs in your pocket.
You were asking about where to target a bear when seen from various aspect... you must understand, these critters are tough, thick skinned, and heavey boned animals. Shooting them with anything but the most powerful pistol round may only make them mad!

4. Odds are overwhelming that you will get hit by lightning before you find yourself in situation #3 above. #2 will undoubtably happen from time to time. But #1 above is the key.

Most of the fatal encounters with black bears have occured in areas where they have little fear of men. These are usually remote areas where encounters with man are rare; more often in areas where no regular hunting is allowed, such as national and provincial parks and reserves.

My parents spent their retirement years living in a summer home in western Lycoming Co from 1972 to 1999. They had bear problems like you described the whole time, actually got worse with time. Seems there was a fella down the road who, for a couple of years, put feed out all summer and fall. He bragged about having 6 bears in at once, had names for all of them. When when he went south for the winter, the bears lost their free lunch an began raiding everyone elses garbage cans and bird feeders. Dad had a lockable freezer out on the porch and one big boy knocked it over, pried the lid off and helped himself to frozen chicken, peas and carrots. Game comm. was inform and they read the riot act to the offender,( not the bear, the neighbor). Nobody got hurt though. Since that time laws have been passed banning game feeding, with heavey fines for offenders, as should be. We still use the place as a family camp.

All this being said, when I go to camp with my 5 yr old grand daughter, I plan to take my S&W .45acp M1917 along as a noisemaker and deterrent. But I worry more about poisonous snakes and rabid skunks and raccoons than bears.

Come to think of it, I see more reason to fear the two legged variety of predator.

John

Being an avid Idaho hunter, I often chase bears during the spring season. I was hunting with a buddy of mine who made a bad shot with his 06. Because it was getting dark we decieded it was best to come back in the morn. I picked up the blood trail as soon as 1st light hit and by noon the blood trail trickled to pin drops. I was on my hands and knees picking my way thru nasty brush in the bottom of the canyon when it opened up into a small grassy spot where I saw a paw sticking up from the grass. I yelled to my partner that I found his bear and when I did, it stood up on all fours. I was 10 yards away and drew the scanduim S&W and had the front site plastered on his chest and squeezed off a 158gr without reliasing it. The front site looked about 10" tall. The bear flipped himself backwards and died. So yes 357 worked on THAT bear. I carry that pistol on all my outdoor activities.

Two years ago a young bear was hanging around my area. I live in Virginia by the Rappahannock River. It trashed my bird feeder and tried to bite through my trash can. I took many pictures, while it was hanging out in the back yard, and sent them to the Va Department of Game and Inland Fisheries. One of their reps responded that there was a lot of information on their website:

Living with Black Bears in Virginia

Further, if the bear continues to be a problem, they may dispatch someone to deal with it. About a year ago, I saw it running through my back yard. In talking to the neighbors, I think it is still in the neighborhood. It's now two years older and I'm sure a lot bigger.

A couple of days ago I took my 44 mag with me while I hiked down to the river. I used to think that Black Bears were totally shy, passive and afraid of humans. After educating myself, I've found this isn't actually the case. Although bear attacks are extremely rare, so is lightning and snake bites. But they will all give you a bad day. If I'm working in my yard, I won't be armed. I've decided not to carry in the open area. However, If I go down to the river through the woods where I may surprise a bear or not be able to see it approach, I plan on being armed. I don't plan on being bear food.

I have a 5 year old daughter and I'm worried about her being outside at the wrong time.

I would recommend that you be educated and be prepared.

I love the wildlife but I love human life more.

Thanks for all the replies. This thread has been interesting. I have been reading about black bears alot since this incident, and the concensus is generally that they rarely attack humans. I'm still gonna be on my toes. I'll deal with the game warden if and when that day ever comes.

We live on the edge of 5k acres of national forest. We have the occasional bear, but mostly fox and coyotes. There are also some feral hogs, not the two-legged kind I dated in my youth! A few summers back, mange hit the fox population very hard. They became unafraid of humans. One even slept on my front porch! They would directly approach us when we took walks with our small terrier in the neighborhood. But I always had my J-Frame in my pocket.
Prevention goes a long way when living with nature. I remove bird feeders once bears are out of hibernation. Trash is put outside only on the day of pick-up. That said, when we leave the house with plans to walk in the woods, I carry either my 686 2.5" .357 or my Glock 29 SF, 10 mm. Bears really are shy animals and will avoid human contact unless conditioned to associate humans with food. Cubs add an element to consider in spring and summer.
A firearm is comforting, but I carry for protection from the deliverance boys type I may encounter more than for protection from bears. Either way, my family is safe.

Most PREDATORY bear attacks are committed by black bears. Quit underestimating them...

I read about one case where the bear had stashed 7 or 8 dead men in a food cache. Thankfully, a fisherman that he attacked next stabbed him to death.

T-Star

A good many posters here have said bears are really not a problem, but bears are animals. Think of man's best friend, the domesticated dog. Having been a city mail carrier for the USPS for twenty-three+ years I have had a good many dogs turn on me. Dogs that knew me well, but something set them off and here they came. I have outrun several dozen, been bitten three times, seriously injured three (had no choice, it was them or me), and gotten one destroyed.

You can't trust a domesticated animal, so why would anyone trust a wild animal that is bold enough to approach a human? I believe the OP is reacting properly after his encounter. If the OP doesn't own a dog, he might want to acquire one. A dog will hear and smell a bear way before a human will. The dog responds to his senses, the human responds to the dog. Hopefully, nobody and no animal gets hurt.

did the stabbing fisherman,that knifed the bear then start a bear stash?

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KK4EMO