The "Outgunned" thread got me to thinking.
I recently got into revolvers. I now have been bitten by the S&W bug.
The main reason I started looking at Smith and Wessons is I replaced my semi-auto with a revolver for CCW. My thinking is, I may find myself in a situation where I don't want to leave empty shell casings behind. Not a problem with a revolver.
What are your thoughts about this.

Works for me!

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C & L

I switched from a compact 9mm to a .38 snubbie.

I wanted something I could leave loaded forever and not worry about spring fatigue or anything like that. I know I have at least 5 shots. More with a reload.

For my fun gun I have a silenced Beretta 9mm and my serious situation gun is a colt GM .45ACP. But for everyday carry, it is my snubbie.

It didn't have to do with leaving shells behind. That is just a benefit.

I love my revolvers, and carry them about as often as my autos. Both are excellent for their purpose. I don't want to be disrespectful, but if I'm in a shooting, I'm not going to try to conceal any evidence. If my auto kicks out brass, so be it, I'm going to stick around to tell my side of the story to the police. The brass is part of the evidence, and if I did everything right I have nothing to hide.
Just my opinion.

P@R Fan You are so right on this.I was a police officer for 25 years before i retired never had to shoot at anybody.But would have if needed so i feel if you are in the right just stay and give your version.Just an opinion from a retired officer.

My two cents, Revolvers are for marksman and pistols are for those who can't hit anything.

Wheel Guns are real guns! I carry both, and if in a pinch i would be just as comfortable with a revolver. I am actually looking at the Model 60 pro for daily carry. I prefer the .357 MAG cartridge to any other for defense. Just my opinion! Most people look at me funny at the range because of my age, and all my wheel guns. Most fellas my age, are into the auto's and plastic fantastics, but give me a good ole revolver any day. Goes bang everytime, and I ALWAYS HIT WHAT I AM AIMING FOR!

I'm not a Marksman, just a 28 year veteran of Law Enforcement. Revolvers are beautiful, Glocks are for work. Flee the situation, after shots fired, and you may as well have Obama's mother move into the house you should have retired in.
Good Luck

If you have followed the correct CCW rules, then why would you have to worry about empty shell casings?

P@R and JPPEZZ,
No disrespect taken. Just a question I have thought about a few times.
One thing that bothers me is being sued by the bad guys family later. Their have been some civil awards given by jurys that I don't understand at all. Win or loose, it could ruin a person financally.
I remember reading about someone robbing a C-store in Wisconsin. (No CCW) The bad guys came in with guns threatening people and if I remember right even fired a shot. A customer pulled his gun and shot one of the bad guys. the other one ran off and was caught later.
When the smoke cleared the good guy was nowhere to be found. Where I come from, he would have been totally justified. In Wisconsin, I can't say I blame him for dissapearing.
I guess I feel very fortunate to live in a state where it is easier to defend themselves.

Because, even if you do it right, you may still be subject to 10s of thousands of dollars in legal fees to keep yourself out of jail. And, depending on what state you're in, doing it right may not protect you against a civil judgment either...

OK, let's follow the scenario. You shoot the bad guy. You pick up your casings and leave to stay out of legal/civil trouble. The police, who are VERY good at this, find out it's you. They question you. "Sir, the shooting appears to be justified, so why did you flee the scene and alter (take) the evidence? Hmmm maybe we'll look into this a little further".
Now the civil attorney sends you a thank you card for winning the case for him. I'm not an attorney, but I don't think I want to go down that road. Do you?

Thats my point. If you carry a revolver you don't have to pick up your brass. Taking out the part of "altering evidence". They will probably still look into this further.
What if, In a panic situation, you ran away? Probably wouldn't help your case, but to me would be understandable.

I should have said first, I don't want to go down this road at all.
I carry to protect my family first and myself second. I pray I will never have to do so.

If you find yourself in that situation spent casings will be the last thing on your mind. Not a factor in picking a pistol

I feel equally comfortable with both Revolvers and Semi Auto.
What I carry depends on where I'm going and what I'm doing.

Rule 303

I switched out from pistols and now carry a J frame or SP101 as an EDC.
Much more of a convenience

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"Non sibi, sed patriae"

I am great with a revolver but rather have 15+1 shots in my Beretta than 5 in my snubbie.

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In case of emergency call 1911

I'd say a Revolver is far more superior to a Semi-Auto as a SD CCW.

The revolver will never have any of the common failure propensities specific to semi-autos such as..:

FTF (failure to feed)
FTE (failure to eject)
Stove Piping
Limp Wrist Syndrome
Premature Slide Lock
Premature Mag Drop
Hot casings bouncing off your forehead (ouchy mama !)

Most semi-autos are SA only and a high percentage designed to fire in SA/DA mode don't have a second strike capability unless the slide is racked.

Also, Centennial type revolvers can be successfully fired while pocket carried, you probably get one shot from an auto before you have any of the above referenced issues.

No external safety levers or de-cockers to worry about. None.

Yep, the Revolver is superior.

As with any CCW, the operator should become proficient with it's use and devote substantial time at the Range. Proper use and maintenance is vital to a reliable, safe functioning weapon.

Practice, Practice,..Practice.

I had to send a 642 back to S & W for the cylinder will not rotate when fired. NIB less then 50 rounds. Do I still trust it? I had also heard of cylinder lock up. How many police agencies still use revolvers? I am sorry but for a BUG revolvers are great for a primary I will keep my Beretta.

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In case of emergency call 1911

Of course there are arguments on either side, but here's mine. I love my revolvers, but for every day carry, it's a M&P 40.

Capacity: 15 + 1

Concealment: I know a snubby is pretty easy to hide in pocket but see above.

Ease of reloading: After 5 or 6 rounds in a gun fight, I know I'll be really rattled. Against dropping a magazine and shoving in a new one, a speed loader or strip just doesn't compare.

I see a nice snubby in my future for a back up gun but my primary weapon will always be an auto.

+1 Amen to that!!!!

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In case of emergency call 1911

J-Frames are nifty little guns. I own three, out of a total of 18 S&W revolvers. Most of these Smith revolvers could be used in CCW with great efficiency, and I am very comfortable with DA shooting.

My primary, EDC is still a semi, usually a 1911.

I believe some guys must be under the influence of Action Movies (AMs). You know, the ones where a guy with a semi in each hand, apparently using really hi-cap mags (100? 500?) shatters a quarter mile of plate glass and mirrors while picking-off bad guys who can't even shoot themselves in the foot with an Uzi. I live in the real world, not AM. I don't pass by the OK corral every morning, and the Clampett gang isn't waiting for me there. I'm more likely to get in a shootout with a vicious pit bull than the Wild Bunch. If I have to defend myself against a mugger (or 2, maybe) the five rounds of 357 in my 340PD will serve. I practice 50rds a week with that gun or it's sister, and I hit what I shoot at. I don't even carry a reload. If I'm faced with a large gang of armed killers, I'm running real, real fast.

I'm really disturbed that the thought would cross your mind about leaving brass behind. :? However, I don't think you meant anything nefarious about it. There's just some things that shouldn't ever be done, and leaving the scene is one of the biggies.

That said, if your safety is of paramount concern, you might just have to exit....just be prepared to be called on the carpet about it later. Just picture having had to stop an assailant of minority status in a minority neighborhood...and a crowd gathers, and they get hostile. Okay, you get the drift.

Now then, there are some distinct advantages to revolvers, and particularly for CCW. Things can often happen at contact distance. The wheel is not likely to jam.

I will stick with the semi auto.

High capacity autos are good peace-of-mind carry weapons for civilian SD. For some, that's an important part of their daily carry Psyche. I can appreciate that, for sure. But along with high capacity comes extra bulk and weight which will eventually become an issue.

Hi-cap autos are a definite benefit and paramount in the military and law enforcement theater of operation. Daily life and death scenarios are the norm and deployment into hot zones are expected and anticipated.

I go to the mall.

In the real world, the average distance involving domestic shootings occur within 20 feet and only lasts a few seconds, at a rate of only a few rounds being discharged.

It's good to be prepared. It's important to always carry regardless of what you choose to carry.

I'm prepared.

I live near Detroit. That said two or more BGs is not that uncommon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_O_0...eature=channel
He had a rovoler. He run out of ammo.

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In case of emergency call 1911

Don't be disturbed Victor,
I am not some psyco. I am more likely to use my CCW to put a deer or antelope hit by a car out of its misery than to meet a two legged threat.
That being said, In my state it is illegal to shoot a game animal that is mangled but still alive. after it has been hit by a car. The Game and Fish department also has more authority than the state police. They use EVERYTHING at their disposal to investigate any crime against the game animals of Wyoming.
I have and will if I see an animal that is going to die a painful death put that animal out of its misery. I respect the animal.
I don't want to leave shell casings behind.
Just one view.

I wonder what is the aveage # of rounds fired in a public self defense situation? Real life is not the movies where you empty a 17 round clip & reload. If you are unable to hit the attacker after 6 rounds you should really run instead of holding your ground.

Some of us had knee surgery and running is not an option.

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In case of emergency call 1911

I didn't notice it, it just sorta happened; one day I became a pistol man. A lot has to do with the available alternatives. When I was younger, you didn't have much choice in carry autos. Now, there are not just a few, but a number of good choices that combine small size, shootability, and reliability in very reasonably priced packages.

All my life I swore by the j-frame revolver, but I've switch to the automatics over time for a number of reasons.

First, the ammunition. The 9MM is better then a 38spl and the 45 ACP is just about impossible to beat for self defense. Yes the 357 beats a 9MM, but I'm not one to load them up in a j-frame for daily carry. Yes, you can get a 9MM or 45ACP revolver, but my personal experience is that the 9MM suffer from some reliability problems, and the 45ACPs are fairly big guns. Got to give the autos the + here.

Second, the cleanup. If I carry a gun, I shoot it. I like to know it is reliable, and make sure it gets cleaned and the ammo rotated on a regular basis. The autos are hands down easier to clean. Got to give them the + here also.

Next, the reliability issue. I do agree it is tough to beat revolver reliability, but, I have never had an automatic that I could not get back into action by myself. I have, however, sent both my 640 and my 940 back to S&W for a problem I could not resolve myself. Most auto problems stem from lack of maintenance or bad ammo. These are problems that are easy to avoid. My experience with revolver problems are that, although rare (very very rare), they tend to be mechanical problems that take the gun out of action for good when they happen. All in all, I'd say that reliability is at best a push, but my personal opinion again is to give it to the auto.

Finally, capacity and reload. Yes, there are folks that can speed load a revolver faster then you can change a magazine, but I am not one of them. I agree that you probably don't need the extra rounds, and in fact rarely carry a spare magazine, but what can it hurt? I guess that I have to give it to the auto here again.

Does this mean that I feel bad about carrying a j-frame for defense - of course not. It just means that given the choice I'll go for the auto in almost every situation.

Bullseye Smith,

Right on!

You can use you revolver for paper target if you like. I feel 6 shots against two with Glocks you will change your mind fast.

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In case of emergency call 1911

I'd rather avoid such a situation altogether, but against those odds, a trained shooter with six rounds can be more effective than two unschooled yokels with 34.

Either option is viable. If you shoot a pistol better, and you have one that's reliable, then it's the best choice. If (like me) you shoot a revolver better, then that's the best choice.

(Disclaimer: I once traded a Python for a Beretta because it held fifteen rounds )

Not sure what was originally meant, but it's much easier to police and collect brass at the range with a revolver.

Now, in a self-defense situation, I wouldn't be leaving shells on the ground unless I reloaded. Of course, I'd also be the first person contacting law-enforcement, so it's a moot point.

Interesting statement. It overflows with irony.

[QUOTE=los;135481996]I'd say a Revolver is far more superior to a Semi-Auto as a SD CCW.

The revolver will never have any of the common failure propensities specific to semi-autos such as..:

FTF (failure to feed)
FTE (failure to eject)
Stove Piping
Limp Wrist Syndrome
Premature Slide Lock
Premature Mag Drop
Hot casings bouncing off your forehead (ouchy mama !)

Firing out of battery

Yes, my feeling too.

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NRA Life Endowment

Let's face it. The only ones who really need high capacity are cops. For the rest of us, the best offense is to flee a dangerous situation. Most likely you won't be cornered like they make up in movieland. It's not a matter of cowardice. The probability of saving your own life is better when you leave it to your legs than leaving it to your aim.

I'm sure you heard self defense lessons where an attacker with a knife is just as deadly within X yards as one with a firearm.

I have always been and will be a revolver guy.When I started out in the shooting sports I looked @ semi's basically being a "Tool".With a revolver I was drawn to both its simplicity and its function as a work of art.As a CCW it was the right chioce for me.The safety is between the shooter's ears and if TSHTF point and pull trigger.No BOOM? Pull trigger again and BOOM.With civilians capacity will rarely be a issue because statistically we will not have multiple assialiants.If you have to go to your tactical reload you are in the wrong neighborhood and having a very bad day.My instructor was both a NRA and LE Instructor who rammed in our heads 1 target 1 shot.If you have to take a second thier better be a damn good reason.With the advent of the super nines with 17+1 capacity many times marksmanship goes out the window and we hear all about spray and pray.With becoming a NRA CFI I jumped into the world of semi's ,but my 640 and Detective Special are my go to guns...God Bless...Mike

After reading the Civilian Self Defense Blog for years, I realized the probability of needing 20 or 30 or 40 rounds of ammo is astronomically low. It's much more important to know what to do in a situation than it is to have boatloads of ammo. Don't buy a high capacity semi auto and think you're good to go.

Also, if you plan on leaving the scene of a shooting, you need to leave the gun at home. That is a VERY bad plan of action. If it's not legal to euthanize an animal where you live, then don't do it.

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Centennial Every Day

Good point. Also, shooting that many rounds in public will increase your chance of getting sued by the poor civilians in the backdrop. Or worst.

Good point. Your main street is not located in Iraq. The military has always emphasize putting out thousands of rounds to suppress the enemy since the Korean war but that tactic doesn't work in your neighborhood.

I know but in Detroit 5 rounds is not going to cut it. I try to stay out of the hood but times I have to travel through. I do agree most situations is settled in less then 5 rounds. We have had multiple attackers who are drug induced that we may have to deal with. One road rage case had two on one the guy fired his emptied his revolver killed one the other guy backed down but what if he had not? Now I do carry a revolver for lightweight conceal and such but my primary carry is a semi auto pistol.

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In case of emergency call 1911

If you can't hit him with the first 5 shots, what in the world makes you think you can hit him with the other 11? LOL!!

Well said my friend! I couldn't agree more. I sometimes carry a revolver, and sometimes a revolver. My auto is only loaded with seven rounds of nine, and I ain't worried about capacity. If I cannot defend myself in MOST situations with that then I ought not carry.

I knew I could stir the pot, and now be honest , if you go hunting with a single shot shot gun one day and a auto the next - which day will you get most tree rats? Easy with the single shot, because your mine will tell you I have one shot, with the auto your mine will say hurry up you have 4 extra rounds. How many times have you read or heard of 18 to 96 rounds fired and the bad guy hit once. In the old days if a LE fired more than two rounds was because there was more than one bad guy. Plus if there is more than two, the odds aren't going your way to walk away. When I carry and would need to shoot, I know I will stand sideways and shoot with one hand because that is what I do each week at a bullseye match. Plus it would be a head shoot if I can see it.

I am am old Marine vet, and collector/shooter for 40+ years who has owned darn near everything that goes BANG. My bedside gun is a 64 with Crimson Trace, my carry piece is either a 60, or 649 with Crimson Trace.

I really don't see a protracted gun battle in my future, but if I ever need a weapon for S.D. I am sure of my ability to hit what I aim at. 5-6 rounds, with a speed strip will get it done.

If I was a bouncer in a biker bar, or a doorman at a crack house, I may feel the need for a lot of rounds, and 3-4 spare mags. Neither is in my future.

depends. I have 2 revolvers, both 686 .357, one 2.5" and one 4". neither one will ever see carry in public. My 4" is used as a range gun and for my wife to grab in the low probability that she needs it at home. My 2.5" is for the wife as well, but also for me while i do yard work in case a bear or dog decides to test me. Just saw a bear last week in my yard. My carry gun is a S&W 6906. Flatter, and easier to conceal than the 686 2.5". I used to have a 642, but I hated shooting it, although it was great to carry. I am much more accurate with that 6906.

But, if I am venturing into unfriendly territory, or had a high risk job like a jeweler, a revolver would be nothing more than second gun. In the heat of the moment, 5 shots goes mighty fast, especially with more than one bad guy And I don't understand how that jeweler didn't have his antenna up when those two lowlifes walked in his store. They looked like thugs right when they walked in the door, and the one mutt kept putting his hand in his pocket. I'm glad he survived, but I chalk it more up to luck than anything else. Thugs like that know nothing about cover. and the jeweler was holding an empty gun on a guy who was still armed and not out of the picture yet. What was to stop him from firing a shot before he died?

5 shots was plenty for Bernie Goetz....

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"Give me Liberty..."