What years did the FBI issue the Model 13?

roaddog28 said:
Hi,
According to the Smith & Wesson book by Jim Supica & Richard Nahas the M13 evolved from the M10-6. The 10-6 was a prototype of the later model 13 chambered in 357. FBI issued the model 13 in 1974 and 1986 to 1987. The 13-1 was introduced for the N.Y.S.P in 1974. I have a model 13-2 4 inch made in the 1977 era. One of my favorite K frame magnums.
Howard
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I don't think the FBI issued a Model 13 until very late 1980 or 1981. I came in in January 1980 and was issued a 2 1/2" model 10. When I graduated in May, they were still issuing the model 10's. I don't remember seeing any issue model 13's until 1981. They were all 3". This was the issue revolver until the Bureau began issuing semi automatic pistols.

Understand, I'm not saying that no FBI agent carried a model 13 before 1980 or 1981. Almost any steel frame 2" to 4"S&W revolver in .38 or .357 was authorized for purchase and carry by FBI agents as a Bureau Approved, Personally Owned Weapon (POW). It is entirely possible that there were many agents carrying Model 13's before they were actually issued by the FBI
 
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Calfed said:
I came in in January 1980 and was issued a 2 1/2" model 10.
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I'm sorry for going off on a tangent, but I noticed that two members posted about being issued a 2 1/2" Model 10.

I've never seen a 2 1/2" Model 10 before. Does anyone have a picture of one?

I've seen 2", 3" and 4" barrels, but never a 2 1/2". I must admit that I am surprised to hear of such a barrel length because I would have assumed that if the FBI used it, S&W would have made some for public consumption.

Thank you.
 
Calfed said:
I don't think the FBI issued a Model 13 until very late 1980 or 1981. I came in in January 1980 and was issued a 2 1/2" model 10. When I graduated in May, they were still issuing the model 10's. I don't remember seeing any issue model 13's until 1981. They were all 3". This was the issue revolver until the Bureau began issuing semi automatic pistols.

Understand, I'm not saying that no FBI agent carried a model 13 before 1980 or 1981. Almost any steel frame 2" to 4"S&W revolver in .38 or .357 was authorized for purchase and carry by FBI agents as a Bureau Approved, Personally Owned Weapon (POW). It is entirely possible that there were many agents carrying Model 13's before they were actually issued by the FBI
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You are probably right. I was quoting the S&W book. Myself, I did not think the FBI used them until the 1980s. Beening that you work for the Bureau you saw them. I not a expert on the model 13. All I know is I love my 13-2 4 inch. It was made in the 1977 period and was used quite a bit by LE. Not as well known as the M19/M66 and of course the M10 but I have always like the fixed sight service revolvers whether 357 or 38. I even have a Ruger Police Service Six 4 inch that was also used by LE and Security agencies. A lot like the model 13.
Thanks,
Howard
Here are my service revolvers:

M&P 38 special 4 inch tapered barrel
DSC00002-1.jpg

Model 13 4 inch
SWM13.jpg

Model 10 4 inch heavy barrel
model10-14c.jpg

Ruger Police Service Six 4 inch
RugerServiceSix.jpg
 
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I was never in federal service, so I don't know anything about it, but I did have a Model 10 with a two/two and a half inch barrel. I bought for one of my investigators when I had a private agency. I never got to shoot it, but he loved it.

Along the same line, though, when I bought my 4013Tactical I was told they were very hard to come by because so many FBI agents were purchasing them? Any truth in that statement?

Thanks.
 
A couple of FBI Agents certified me as a Firearms instructor when I was a SC Deputy Sheriff. This was right about 1994 or so. They were carrying autos but one of the instructors loaned me his issue M-13 3" for the revolver portion of the course. He told me that he was allowed to hold on to it because he was an instructor. So at least a few agents still had revolvers in the 90s.
I now own a similar M-13. A more perfect carry revolver is difficult to conceive.
 
Roaddog, those are some fine looking revolvers.

I must confess a weakness for 3" revolvers, but carried a round butt, 4" model 19 for several years before getting a 3" model 66. I sure wish I kept that model 19--it was a sweet shooter.
 
JC4013 said:
I was never in federal service, so I don't know anything about it, but I did have a Model 10 with a two/two and a half inch barrel. I bought for one of my investigators when I had a private agency. I never got to shoot it, but he loved it.

Along the same line, though, when I bought my 4013Tactical I was told they were very hard to come by because so many FBI agents were purchasing them? Any truth in that statement?

Thanks.
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JC, I can't say for sure about the 4013T. I know for a time, right after the Bureau authorized POW semi's there was a flood of agents buying any semi they could find. I bought a S&W 3913 that I still have and like very much.

It is certainly possible that other agents bought the 4013T, while S&W semi's were still being authorized.
 
gkitch said:
A couple of FBI Agents certified me as a Firearms instructor when I was a SC Deputy Sheriff. This was right about 1994 or so. They were carrying autos but one of the instructors loaned me his issue M-13 3" for the revolver portion of the course. He told me that he was allowed to hold on to it because he was an instructor. So at least a few agents still had revolvers in the 90s.
I now own a similar M-13. A more perfect carry revolver is difficult to conceive.
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Kitch, I can't remember when they finally threw a rope around my neck and made me turn in my 2 1/2 " model 10. It would have been sometime in the mid 90's. However, I still carried my POW revolvers until 2006 or 2007-when the Bureau finally pulled the plug on any agent carrying even a POW revolver. Anyone that had a POW model 13--and I know a few guys who bought one, because they couldn't get the Bureau to issue them one-could theoretically still have been carrying them till 2006 or 2007

I also know that Firearms Instructors had a wider latitude in what they could obtain and hold onto than a street agent like myself
 
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This forum is an absolute cure for anything resembling Big Head Syndrome. I thought I knew K frames pretty well but I've never seen or heard of a 2.5" M-10. The pictures posted here are the first I've ever seen. Thanks to the posters for the info, though it may cost me (a 2.5" 10 is now on The List).

I've never been in law enforcement, but I can understand the FBI decision on revolvers given their circumstances. More than once in my life I've sat across a desk from a bunch of angry supervisors or union officials (and sometimes both supervisors and union guys...when they storm into your office together, you have a problem), and all I could to say to their legitimate objections was "Look guys, I've only got so much money to work with here...". That's just the way it works out sometimes
 
I was off by two years in my previous post. I dug out my certificate for my FBI instructor's school. It was July 1981 when I took the course. SA Cal Darst and SA JJ Jensen from the Anchorage office had just returned from the FBI instructor's school in Quantico. The showed us their newly issued three inch 13s. At the time fixed sight guns were thought of as poor man's guns. Everybody in the class considered the 13s a step backward for the FBI as the Model 66 was considered the ultimate cop gun back then.

A third instructor, SA Billy Andrews was on FBI swat so he had the coveted NIS four inch round butt Model 19 with the yellow front sight. It wasn't a 66 but it was pretty cool with the grip adapter and all. He tried to buy the gun when he retired but they made him return it to Quantico. It's probably a pencil holder now.
 
I hope I didn't miss this, but I'd like to ask the former agents, what round was required/carried in the Model 13's? I'm curious as to whether it was a .357 round or a .38+P round. I saw the comments on wadcutters when talking about the S&W Model 60's, but am wondering about the M13's?
 
During my time with the FBI (1980-2009), I was issued two types of .38 ammunition. The standard issue round when I first started was the 158 grain lead semi wadcutter +P hollowpoints. Later, probably in the early 90's, I was issued 147 grain Federal hydra-shok +P+. This is all I ever carried in any of my .357 magnum revolvers.

47f81c29-46c1-412e-9d6b-e3fb99ba3bbe_zps52d5d075.jpg
2c35c033-09a2-42df-9339-4f5d844776eb_zps58f4fd14.jpg

e78ae44d-1703-489e-b775-ec34056c378d_zps3b83c14a.jpg


Magnum ammunition was generally not carried in the gun, but could be carried for reloading. I was never issued any magnum ammo, but the few guys who were had either Winchester-Western or Federal 158 grain lead semi-wadcutter, non hollowpoint.
 
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Calfed said:
The standard issue round when I first started was the 158 grain lead semi wadcutter +P hollowpoints.
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Thanks Calfed. I think that load used to be referred to as "The F.B.I. Load." That's always been my preferred load just based on the literature I've read by Ayoob, Marshall, Sanow, and others. It's interesting that most agents didn't carry .357 Mag fodder in their .357's, but I'm guessing it was because of the excessive muzzle blast and noise in short-barreled guns. Most people seem to be more accurate with the .38 +P's. Thanks again for the info and the photos.
 
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1981 to about 1988.

According to this article, the public announcement about the FBI adopting the 3 inch Model 13 was "last summer," which would make adoption sometime during 1981. See page 32:

http://www.americanhandgunner.com/1982issues/HMJ82.pdf

After the Miami shootout in 1987, FBI briefly went to SIG 9mm pistols using the OSM load (Olin Super Match) until the ammo testing protocols were developed and a cartridge and pistol were selected to replace the issue revolver. The SIG 9mm/OSM load was a "stop-gap" until adoption of the 10mm and the S&W 1076.
 

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I entered on duty on 11/6/1991. We were designated class 90-1, and were issued the Model 13. We were the last class with this revolver. I carried it on duty for a few years in New York, until I bought a Sig Sauer P-220 in .45 Caliber, which remained my main weapon for 27 years. The Bureau just retired these weapons which are no longer grandfathered. I am now carrying a plastic fantastic 9mm with a German name that does everything but put a man on the moon. Mine doesn't have a rail system, so I can't add a coffee maker on it or anything, but I understand the nifty ballistics make it the equivalent to a .454 Casull, so I feel REALLY ninja cool.
 
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