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S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present All NON-PINNED Barrels, the L-Frames, and the New Era Revolvers


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  #1  
Old 06-18-2010, 05:22 PM
chp chp is offline
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Do you need a hammer block in a modern S&W? Do you need a hammer block in a modern S&W? Do you need a hammer block in a modern S&W? Do you need a hammer block in a modern S&W? Do you need a hammer block in a modern S&W?  
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Default Do you need a hammer block in a modern S&W?

I understand why a hammer block is required in a S&W with a hammer mounted firing pin.

Why do you need a hammer block in the current revolvers w/o the hammer mounted firing pin? Thanks for educating me!
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Old 06-18-2010, 05:39 PM
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Because without the hammer block in place, you can still push the hammer fully forward so that it contacts the frame mounted firing pin. This means that if the gun were dropped on the hammer spur, it could cause the gun to discharge.
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Old 06-18-2010, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by scooter123 View Post
Because without the hammer block in place, you can still push the hammer fully forward so that it contacts the frame mounted firing pin. This means that if the gun were dropped on the hammer spur, it could cause the gun to discharge.
Not without the trigger fully pressed, however. Right?
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Old 06-18-2010, 06:07 PM
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The hammer block is what keeps the hammer from striking the firing pin unless the trigger is fully depressed. With the hammer block removed, the hammer can strike the pin regardless of trigger position.
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Old 06-18-2010, 06:20 PM
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There is a foot on the bottom of the hammer and a shelf on the rebound slide that prevent the hammer moving forward when it is at rest. But, if it is dropped with enough force on the hammer, it could break off. So, they added the hammer block safety.
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Old 06-18-2010, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by snw19_357 View Post
There is a foot on the bottom of the hammer and a shelf on the rebound slide that prevent the hammer moving forward when it is at rest. But, if it is dropped with enough force on the hammer, it could break off. So, they added the hammer block safety.
Thanks. So do the modern J Frame Centenials have hammer blocks?
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Old 06-18-2010, 06:33 PM
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Thanks. So do the modern J Frame Centenials have hammer blocks?
I have had my 640-1 apart and the centennials do not have a hammer block. This is simply because, the hammer is not accessible from the outside of the fire arm to put any pressure on it to make it impact the frame mounted firing pin.
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Old 06-18-2010, 07:53 PM
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Thanks JD.
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  #9  
Old 06-18-2010, 10:18 PM
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I have heard of people carrying a revolver with the hammer down on an empty chamber.
Does this meam it is safe to carry with the hammer down on a loaded chamber?
Thanks
Randy
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Old 06-18-2010, 10:35 PM
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Hammer down on an empty chamber is for Single Action Armys, Colt clones such as Ubertis and old model Rugers, etc. As far as I know, and someone correct me if this is wrong, any modern double action is safe to carry with a full cylinder. Also, modern single actions such as New Model Vaqueros/Blackhawks are safe to carry fully loaded as well due to the transfer bar.

S&W added the hammer block during WWII due to the incident with the sailor. They were safe to carry with six rounds long before that due to the rebound slide, though as mentioned that can fail if enough force is applied from a drop.

YouTube - Gunsmith - Safety features of the Smith & Wesson revolver
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Old 06-18-2010, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingmaster View Post
I have heard of people carrying a revolver with the hammer down on an empty chamber.
Does this meam it is safe to carry with the hammer down on a loaded chamber?
Thanks
Randy
With an old-style single action revolver (think Colt SAA), the firing pin rests directly on the primer of the round in battery. More recent revolvers (Ruger New Model Blackhawks, all modern DA revolvers) have some type of transfer bar or hammer block as detailed above, so the firing pin doesn't touch the loaded round, and it is therefore safe to load all chambers.
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  #12  
Old 06-19-2010, 12:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon88 View Post
Hammer down on an empty chamber is for Single Action Armys, Colt clones such as Ubertis and old model Rugers, etc. As far as I know, and someone correct me if this is wrong, any modern double action is safe to carry with a full cylinder. Also, modern single actions such as New Model Vaqueros/Blackhawks are safe to carry fully loaded as well due to the transfer bar.
New Model Rugers ARE safe to carry with a full cylinder. However, not all modern single actions are safe to carry except with the hammer down on an empty chamber. You mentioned Colts and Clones and Old Model Rugers. However, even the very expensive Freedom Arms is not safe to carry with a full cylinder (according to the factory manual).

All modern Smiths are safe with a full cylinder, as you state.

Not intended to be argumentative, just adding information to your excellent post.

Dale53
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  #13  
Old 06-19-2010, 12:43 AM
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I've never handled a Freedom Arms so thanks for adding that. I guess it's best just to say consult your owner's manual or check with the manufacturer if unsure. Though once you've seen and felt the difference between an original colt-style action and a modern transfer bar-equipped action, it's quite easy to tell.
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Old 06-19-2010, 04:01 AM
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It took me forever to oonvice my father he could load all 6 rounds in his model 19. I'm sure that once I left he still unloaded that one chaamber.

Most of my guns do not have the hammer block in them.

Pistol smiths were notorius for throwing them away while doing an action job. Just one more piece that needed polishing and didn't do anything. Now that I do my own work I keep it in and polish and grease it. Smith must have put it in there for a reason.

If you drop a Smith without the hammer block it still on't go off because of the design of the rebound block.
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Old 06-19-2010, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chp View Post
I understand why a hammer block is required in a S&W with a hammer mounted firing pin.

Why do you need a hammer block in the current revolvers w/o the hammer mounted firing pin? Thanks for educating me!
The firing pin in the modern S&W is frame mounted and held back with a spring. A sharp blow to the hammer without the hammer block will cause the hammer to strike the firing pin, resulting in a discharge.

The hammer block in the S&W still does the same job it always has. It prevents the hammer from going forward if a sharp blow to the back of the hammer occurs, whether by dropping on a hard surface, or by striking the back of the hammer with something.
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Old 06-19-2010, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
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It took me forever to oonvice my father he could load all 6 rounds in his model 19. I'm sure that once I left he still unloaded that one chaamber.

Most of my guns do not have the hammer block in them.

Pistol smiths were notorius for throwing them away while doing an action job. Just one more piece that needed polishing and didn't do anything. Now that I do my own work I keep it in and polish and grease it. Smith must have put it in there for a reason.

If you drop a Smith without the hammer block it still on't go off because of the design of the rebound block.
I am sorry, but this is suicide or serious injury waiting to happen. The rebound mechanism is not sufficient to prevent discharge if the revolver is dropped or struck. Just ask the sailor who was killed in WWII when his Victory Model was dropped on the deck of the ship. This is what caused S&W to design the new hammer block, after which an "S" for safety was added to the serial numbers of the Victory models.

Any pistolsmith who "throws away" the hammer block in the S&W after 1943 is an ignoramous, and obviously does not understand the S&W mechanism. Such a "pistolsmith" would be a contributing factor to any injury or death that occurs as a result. And it will occur. It has before.

Even the S&Ws prior to the change in WWII had a hammer block of sorts, in addition to the rebound mechanism, but it was in the sideplate, it was sort of fragile and it was subject to malfunction with grease and garbage.

The only S&W revolver that does not have the hammer block is the Centennial revolvers, and due to the enclosed hammers, the hammers cannot receive a blow from the rear.

Get those hammer blocks back in.
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Old 06-19-2010, 05:22 PM
shawn mccarver shawn mccarver is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale53 View Post
All modern Smiths are safe with a full cylinder, as you state.



Dale53
UNLESS you have one "modified" by AzShooter as mentioned a couple posts up. His father was right. AzShooter's S&W's, without the hammer block, are NOT safe to carry with a round under the hammer!

Sorry to beat on AzShooter, but this is seriously dangerous and EVERYONE should chime in and tell him so.

The fact that it MAY not happen is NO EXCUSE for AzShooter endangering everyone else on the line with his S&Ws that have had the hammer block removed.

It is possible that a blow to the hammer MAY result in the round firing right back up to the head of AzShooter, but there is no guarantee of that if he drops his revolver on a hard surface.
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Old 06-19-2010, 06:55 PM
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Don't sweat it. I carry this old school pocket rocket with all cylinders full and the hammer cocked



Just adding some levity to the thread. The pistol was my grandmother's - a Marlin XXX STANDARD 1873 - .30 short rimfire - and definitely NOT safe to shoot (even if you could find ammo).
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Old 06-19-2010, 11:24 PM
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Thanks for the information guys.
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Old 06-21-2010, 01:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AzShooter View Post
If you drop a Smith without the hammer block it still won't go off because of the design of the rebound block.
Anyone who believes that is gambling with someone's life. If the hammer block was deemed unnecessary, trust me - it wouldn't be there.

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Old 06-21-2010, 03:42 AM
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You have 3 safeties on a modern S&W revolver. The top circle is showing the bolt as it blocks the hammer as the cylinder is open. The 2ND safety is on the bottom where the rebound block is. The hammer can't go forward if the trigger is not pulled. But as mentioned already, this failed once and got a sailor killed, so they added another safety called a hammer block.
This is a little bar that floats in front of the hammer, shown in the bottom picture.
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  #22  
Old 06-21-2010, 11:09 AM
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Default Wrong!

Pistol smiths were notorius for throwing them away while doing an action job. Just one more piece that needed polishing and didn't do anything.

Now that I do my own work I keep it in and polish and grease it. Smith must have put it in there for a reason.

If you drop a Smith without the hammer block it still on't go off because of the design of the rebound block.[/QUOTE]

IMHO, All generalities are wrong and the one above is really wrong. I can't believe the above statement about "Pistol smiths". Any Gunsmith that specialized in pistols and was therefore a "Pistol smith" knows full well the liability one assumes just working on other peoples' guns let alone removing safety devices from them. No "Pistol smith" I have ever known would give a thought to removal of a S&W hammer block. I was a professional pistol smith for many years. I associated with and talked with other pistol smiths all across the USA. I never ever heard of one of those professionals advocating the removal of a S&W hammer block. To a professional pistol smith the hammer block is easily dealt with when performing an action job. I knew two men personally that chose to remove the hammer block from their own S&Ws. One was killed when he dropped his Model 27 on a wood floor. The other had a left arm severely injured when his dropped on a rock. Both were 'do-it-yourselfers' and thought they knew it all about pistols. ......... Big Cholla
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Old 06-21-2010, 12:03 PM
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When I get ahold of a smith & wesson with the strain screw backed out a half turn or two, the next thing I check for is the hammer block. Very common with the lethal "do-it-yourselfers" mentioned above.
Often the two go together.
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Old 06-21-2010, 07:53 PM
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I have a 686-4 with the firing pin mounted to the hammer.
Given all the discussion on this thread - does it mean that can I safely carry a round in the chamber under the hammer of this gun?

Thanks
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Old 06-21-2010, 08:48 PM
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Yes.
Where the firing pin is makes no difference on modern Smith revolvers.
ALL designed for safe carry with a loaded chamber in front of the hammer.
Denis
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Old 06-22-2010, 11:39 PM
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Hey guys, AZS says leaves them in. Now, it appears he may only be ambivalent about their function. I think we can probably lighten up a wee bit.
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Old 06-23-2010, 11:26 AM
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I think we can probably lighten up a wee bit.
+1. Since S&W doesn't put them in Centenials, I wonder if the decision point for the hammer block is (i) exposed hammer, (ii) DA/SA hammer/trigger, or (iii) both . . .
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Old 06-23-2010, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
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I think we can probably lighten up a wee bit.
Seriously. Look closely at the first pic posted by 500 Magnum Nut. in order to get a gun to go off, it needs to be dropped HARD... hard enough to snap off the part of the hammer with the single action sear (the whole part resting on the rebound slide)... and even then, chances are that the hammer won't move forward because the double action sear rests on the top of the trigger. This kind of "perfect storm" of events probably would only occur on a gun with some defective imperfections in just the wrong spots in the metal of the hammer, trigger, etc.

You know what else might happen? Maybe you get a piece of debris that finds its way between the hammer and the firing pin and the tap on the back of the hammer is enough to set the gun off even if the hammer block is in there. Is that likely? Hells no. Could it happen? Maybe. Maybe another piece of debris makes it behind the primer on a live round and there is enough endshake in your cylinder that a round gets set off if you drop the gun. Likely? No way. But I suppose it's *possible*.

As has been mentioned, back in ye-oldie-time days, the SAA would just have firing pins resting on live primers if you weren't careful. Because of this, the myth persists that modern revolvers have similar issues.

Would I stand in front of one while you dropped it from holster height onto its hammer over a loaded chamber? No. Would I bet a sizeable sum of money that it wouldn't go off? Most definitely.

Leave the block in there if you want. You'll probably never notice it other than a rattle in the gun at times. However, the SKY IS NOT FALLING. Sheesh.

And for God's sake... stop dropping your guns on their hammers. What's wrong with you!
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Old 06-23-2010, 08:36 PM
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Tactical: I couldn't disagree with you more.......... The man I knew personally that dropped his S&W M 27 had not modified any part of the other internals on that handgun after he removed the hammer block. After a day out in the desert, he was putting it away up on a shelf at about head height. The gun fell from the holster and landed on a wooden floor of pine. The gun fired and the bullet entered just above his belt and centered his heart. He was dead before the EMS guys got there. The fellow that only got his left arm ruined dropped his Model 28 from the upper bunk of a hunting cabin onto a concrete floor. That handgun was not altered in anyway except for the removal of the hammer block. The manufacturing tolerances of S&W might allow a little 'sponginess' in the trigger/hammer/sear relationship that contributed to the hammer overriding the sear block. There may be other contributing factors, but to flat out advocate that the hammer block is useless is IMHO irresponsible.

One time when I was still a practicing pistol smith a man brought me his S&W revolver for an 'action job'. I opened it up while he was standing there and I found the hammer block missing. I asked him if he knew it was missing. He quickly owned up to having removed it as "everyone knew they were not needed". I put his pistol back together, handed it back to him and told him I didn't think my work on his pistol would ever be satisfactory to him. I sent him out the door talking to himself. ....... Big Cholla
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Old 06-23-2010, 09:03 PM
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I would bet everything I have that No one has ever been shot from a handgun that went off from it striking the ground.
I would say that in about 99% of all the accidental discharge shootings, the trigger was pulled (whether by a finger or by some other object.)

The hammer-block "safety" is one of the worst abominations that has ever been put on a firearm.
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Old 06-23-2010, 10:01 PM
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The interesting thing about all this to me is that the hammer block does not in any way affect trigger pull. In or out, the gun functions the same. So why take it out? What do you gain? I don't even understand this "polish and grease" thing. What does not polishing keep the gun from doing as well?

Last edited by SWID; 06-23-2010 at 10:02 PM. Reason: spelling
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  #32  
Old 06-23-2010, 10:45 PM
ImprovedModel56Fan ImprovedModel56Fan is offline
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Pistol smiths were notorius for throwing them away while doing an action job. Just one more piece that needed polishing and didn't do anything.

Now that I do my own work I keep it in and polish and grease it. Smith must have put it in there for a reason.

If you drop a Smith without the hammer block it still on't go off because of the design of the rebound block.
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IMHO, All generalities are wrong and the one above is really wrong. I can't believe the above statement about "Pistol smiths". Any Gunsmith that specialized in pistols and was therefore a "Pistol smith" knows full well the liability one assumes just working on other peoples' guns let alone removing safety devices from them. No "Pistol smith" I have ever known would give a thought to removal of a S&W hammer block. I was a professional pistol smith for many years. I associated with and talked with other pistol smiths all across the USA. I never ever heard of one of those professionals advocating the removal of a S&W hammer block. To a professional pistol smith the hammer block is easily dealt with when performing an action job. I knew two men personally that chose to remove the hammer block from their own S&Ws. One was killed when he dropped his Model 27 on a wood floor. The other had a left arm severely injured when his dropped on a rock. Both were 'do-it-yourselfers' and thought they knew it all about pistols. ......... Big Cholla
Austin Behlert did it without even being asked to. Smiths and Colts, both. I asked him politely for the hammer block back on at least one Colt (just bought them myself for the S&Ws), and he sent it right out, but people who tell you about older gunsmiths tossing hammer blocks aren't making anything up.

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  #33  
Old 06-23-2010, 11:00 PM
TacticalReload TacticalReload is offline
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Originally Posted by Big Cholla View Post
Tactical: I couldn't disagree with you more.......... The man I knew personally that dropped his S&W M 27 had not modified any part of the other internals on that handgun after he removed the hammer block. After a day out in the desert, he was putting it away up on a shelf at about head height. The gun fell from the holster and landed on a wooden floor of pine. The gun fired and the bullet entered just above his belt and centered his heart. He was dead before the EMS guys got there. The fellow that only got his left arm ruined dropped his Model 28 from the upper bunk of a hunting cabin onto a concrete floor. That handgun was not altered in anyway except for the removal of the hammer block. The manufacturing tolerances of S&W might allow a little 'sponginess' in the trigger/hammer/sear relationship that contributed to the hammer overriding the sear block. There may be other contributing factors, but to flat out advocate that the hammer block is useless is IMHO irresponsible.

One time when I was still a practicing pistol smith a man brought me his S&W revolver for an 'action job'. I opened it up while he was standing there and I found the hammer block missing. I asked him if he knew it was missing. He quickly owned up to having removed it as "everyone knew they were not needed". I put his pistol back together, handed it back to him and told him I didn't think my work on his pistol would ever be satisfactory to him. I sent him out the door talking to himself. ....... Big Cholla
Fair enough. I'm certianly not calling you a liar or advocating the removal of any "safety device"... hear that people who are "plugging" the IL? ;-)

I've been on the inside of enough Smith wheelguns to convince myself that it just mechanically looks damn difficult to imagine it happening. Even someone who doesn't know how things are supposed to work can look at that photo and say, "Hmmm... that doesn't look like it would be likely to happen." However, I'm just one guy and I could very well be wrong. Like I said, keep the hammer block in there... I keep them in there when I work on guns... even my own. I don't find them particularly troubling to polish, even though they are pretty cheaply made by twisting the piece.
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  #34  
Old 06-23-2010, 11:05 PM
TacticalReload TacticalReload is offline
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Originally Posted by SWID View Post
The interesting thing about all this to me is that the hammer block does not in any way affect trigger pull. In or out, the gun functions the same. So why take it out? What do you gain? I don't even understand this "polish and grease" thing. What does not polishing keep the gun from doing as well?
Polishing is the whole point of an "action job". I don't mean to seem rude, but that's 99% of what you're doing when doing a so-called trigger job. You stone the rough machining or high spots out of the parts that mate during the trigger pull. You of course need to know what your doing and where to do it, but every little bit of friction adds to the overall pull. If you don't slick up the moving parts to reduce the friction and increase smoothness, then you can do a poor man's trigger job... cut the strain screw down or back it out. Then you can have a gun with a light trigger pull that never successfully sets off a primer or fires a round. ;-)

While the hammer block doesn't affect the trigger pull *that much*, it does a little bit.

Last edited by TacticalReload; 06-23-2010 at 11:07 PM.
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  #35  
Old 06-24-2010, 12:33 AM
Dragon88 Dragon88 is offline
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Originally Posted by Skeeziks View Post
I would bet everything I have that No one has ever been shot from a handgun that went off from it striking the ground.
You lose everything then. During WWII a sailor was killed after his revolver fell to the deck, leading S&W to implement the hammer block safety at the request of the US Government. I'm sure there are other incidents but this is the most relevant to this thread.
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  #36  
Old 06-24-2010, 02:56 AM
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Skeeziks you lose.
My friend's daughter was shot and killed when she dropped her Colt 1911. She had disengaged the grip safety. Something that never should be done.

I still know a lot of people that do it. But it's in the rules for USPSA that all safeties must be working.

Why people subject themselves to this I have no idea.
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  #37  
Old 06-24-2010, 07:13 AM
chp chp is offline
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Originally Posted by Dragon88 View Post
During WWII a sailor was killed after his revolver fell to the deck, leading S&W to implement the hammer block safety at the request of the US Government.
That revolver had a hammer-mounted firing pin. Does the new design without the hammer-mounted firing pin change the need for the hammer block?
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  #38  
Old 06-24-2010, 07:33 AM
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Year ago, I was told by a police armor that the block was added after a pre-hammer block Smith broke its hammer and fired when a motorcycle patrolman crashed his bike. That sounds possible.
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  #39  
Old 06-24-2010, 08:24 AM
David Sinko David Sinko is offline
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I also had an action job done by Austin Behlert. It was many years ago and it was the first time I ever had an action job done to what I believe was one of my first revolvers. I didn't know much about S&W revolvers but shortly after getting the gun back I disassembled it. Per my Kuhnhausen book, that thing called the hammer block was indeed missing. I called Austin and asked him about it, and he told me that the hammer block was not necessary and he removes them when he does an action job. He said he would return it to me if I really want it, but I declined, figuring he should really know his stuff.

That revolver also had the hammer spur removed. Does the revolver need to land on its hammer spur to fire without that hammer block? Or does it not make a difference?

Dave Sinko
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  #40  
Old 06-24-2010, 11:57 AM
TacticalReload TacticalReload is offline
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Originally Posted by chp View Post
That revolver had a hammer-mounted firing pin. Does the new design without the hammer-mounted firing pin change the need for the hammer block?
It should make much of a difference. The new models have a floating firing pin that is under rearward spring pressure and held in place with a pin that sits in a groove in the firing pin. While, in theory, it takes a slightly harder strike to set off the primer with the new setup (overcome the firing pin's spring pressure / inertia / friction), it shouldn't make much of a difference where the firing pin is mounted if it drops unintentionally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Sinko View Post
I also had an action job done by Austin Behlert. It was many years ago and it was the first time I ever had an action job done to what I believe was one of my first revolvers. I didn't know much about S&W revolvers but shortly after getting the gun back I disassembled it. Per my Kuhnhausen book, that thing called the hammer block was indeed missing. I called Austin and asked him about it, and he told me that the hammer block was not necessary and he removes them when he does an action job. He said he would return it to me if I really want it, but I declined, figuring he should really know his stuff.

That revolver also had the hammer spur removed. Does the revolver need to land on its hammer spur to fire without that hammer block? Or does it not make a difference?

Dave Sinko
Hmmm... you know, that's a good question. I would imagine that it's a lot harder for a revolver without a spur to have the hammer struck hard enough and just right to transfer force forward (assuming that you can get it to break/move). Without a spur, there is very little of the hammer exposed that is at the correct angle to hit.
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  #41  
Old 06-24-2010, 12:03 PM
TacticalReload TacticalReload is offline
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I really wish I had a junker S&W wheelgun that was beyond repair for functional purposes that I could test to see what it actually would take to set it off without the hammer block in place.

I'm assuming that everyone here is smart enough NOT to walk around with the revolver cocked-and-unlocked. So we're talking about a hammer down at rest and a live round in the chamber. I'd be willing to do the testing with a MIM hammer since that might increase the likelihood of some metallurgic issue that would lead to breakage. This is a good one for Mythbusters... unless someone has a *** they are willing to donate. I'm an FFL and would pay postage for you. :-)
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  #42  
Old 06-24-2010, 12:14 PM
Skeeziks Skeeziks is offline
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Originally Posted by AzShooter View Post
Skeeziks you lose.
My friend's daughter was shot and killed when she dropped her Colt 1911. She had disengaged the grip safety.
Why would anyone in their right mind disengage the grip safety on a 1911?
There is nothing to be gained by it...there's no reason for it.
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  #43  
Old 06-24-2010, 12:24 PM
ImprovedModel56Fan ImprovedModel56Fan is offline
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To answer the question, Behlert was wrong. It's pretty rare, and I believe that the hammer has to actually break for it to happen, but the Navy (and presumably S&W) believed that it actually did happen at least once, dropped on a steel deck, I believe. We now have further testimony on several cases of what seems to be about the same thing.
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  #44  
Old 06-24-2010, 12:28 PM
adweisbe adweisbe is offline
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Originally Posted by Skeeziks View Post
Why would anyone in their right mind disengage the grip safety on a 1911?
There is nothing to be gained by it...there's no reason for it.
Because it doesn't engage when you go to shoot it? Series 80 FTW.

Quote:
I still know a lot of people that do it. But it's in the rules for USPSA that all safeties must be working.
USPSA rules do not require that the grip safety work. This has been confirmed by NROI several times.

Quote:
8.1.2.4: With respect to Rules 8.1.2.1 and 8.1.2.3, the term “safety”
means the primary visible safety lever on the handgun (e.g. the
thumb safety on a “1911” genre handgun). In the event of doubt,
the Range Master is the final authority on this matter.

APPENDIX C2 Match Chronograph and Equipment Set-up, #47: The Chrono Officer will inspect the competitor’s handgun and report any
failure of the following to the Range Master:
a. Proper function of the handgun’s primary safety mechanism(s)
b. Safe condition and operation
c. Compliance with the requirements of the declared Division
On a somewhat unrelated note, if I had my way all my S&W revolvers would be Centennials. It is unfortunate that the 242 style revolver never went anywhere.

Last edited by adweisbe; 06-24-2010 at 12:41 PM.
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  #45  
Old 06-24-2010, 01:25 PM
Skeeziks Skeeziks is offline
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Originally Posted by adweisbe View Post
Because it doesn't engage when you go to shoot it? Series 80 FTW.
That doesn't make any sense.... When you place your hand on the grip to shoot, the grip safety automatically gets depressed. If one disengages the mechanism, the safety still gets depressed when you grip the gun.
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  #46  
Old 06-24-2010, 01:35 PM
TacticalReload TacticalReload is offline
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Originally Posted by Skeeziks View Post
That doesn't make any sense.... When you place your hand on the grip to shoot, the grip safety automatically gets depressed. If one disengages the mechanism, the safety still gets depressed when you grip the gun.
Sure it makes sense... it all depends on your hand and grip (small or large hand, overly high grip, etc.). It's very possible to accidentally NOT engage the grip safety. That is the main reason for the invention of the "memory bump" on them... to make more positive contact.
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  #47  
Old 06-24-2010, 03:46 PM
Skeeziks Skeeziks is offline
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Originally Posted by TacticalReload View Post
... it all depends on your hand and grip (small or large hand, overly high grip, etc.).
That's just it.... Your grip should be exactly the same every time you draw. If it's not, then your shots are going to be all over the target.
Now, if we're talking about a self-defense situation...then maybe that's a different story.
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  #48  
Old 06-24-2010, 04:29 PM
TacticalReload TacticalReload is offline
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Originally Posted by Skeeziks View Post
That's just it.... Your grip should be exactly the same every time you draw. If it's not, then your shots are going to be all over the target.
Now, if we're talking about a self-defense situation...then maybe that's a different story.
Competition shooters love getting as high a grip as possible on their guns... it helps control recoil by getting the bore as low as possible relative to the grip. Plus they don't want to get a strong-hand death grip on the gun for obvious reasons. Both of these conditions are not condusive to reliably activating the grip safety.

Plus certain variations in grip safeties mean that some of them need to be more depressed than others. They work by having a little protrusion that physically blocks the back of the trigger bow from moving rearward when you pull the trigger. When pressed, they pivot upward and out of the way. Depending on the size / shape of that part, some of them need to really be fully depressed to get themselves out of the way of the trigger. It doesn't stop the hammer from falling (or the firing pin from moving forward in non-Swartz safety models (ie Kimber)). It only keeps the trigger from being pressed.

I'm certainly not advocating the removal of grip safeties either. However, for competition purposes, I would say that it's not that big a deal. Very few mainstream guns not based on the 1911-design have grip safeties... the Hi-Power doesn't and that's a single action pistol carried cocked-and-locked.

Last edited by TacticalReload; 06-24-2010 at 04:40 PM.
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  #49  
Old 11-30-2010, 12:04 AM
stantheman86 stantheman86 is offline
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The hammer block in S&W revolvers doesn't affect anything.......I don't see the big deal with leaving them in. In an effort to shave .3 lb. off the trigger pull people are taking out a safety device.

Sure the odds are overwhelmingly low that you will ever drop the revolver directly on the back of the hammer on a loaded revolver, and then have the hammer and rebound slide "bump" shear or break off, and still allow for enough force to detonate a round........ but what does it hurt to have one more guard against Mr. Murphy?

I almost want to find some nonfunctional beater, rust bucket truck gun Model 10 or some such, get it working enough to lock up on a chamber, and then whack the hammer with a mallet to see if I can ever get it to fail without the hammer block in. Or put some primer-only empty cartridges and drop the gun onto some concrete right on the hammer to see if it will fail.

Perhaps if it weren't for the poor sailor back in 1943 S&W's would still have the flimsy spring-loaded hammer block. I have a pre-S Victory and it does have the old spring loaded block that is part of the sideplate.
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  #50  
Old 11-30-2010, 01:36 AM
ol timer ol timer is offline
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Originally Posted by David Sinko View Post

That revolver also had the hammer spur removed. Does the revolver need to land on its hammer spur to fire without that hammer block? Or does it not make a difference?
IMO, removing the hammer spur increases the surface area exposed to a forward strike.

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