In the market for a BUG in 9mm, and looking hard at the snubbie instead of the mini guns that seem to be flooding the market.

The 940 is a nicely done platform but seems to be selling for a premium. Is it worth it? Taurus and Charter Arms sell similar versions for much less. Just wondering why the S&W seems to be commanding such a premium on the market.

Any reason? Other than the name and quality of mfg?

thanks

They were quality guns, they didn't make many, and they don't make them anymore, now they command a premium. If you want one, you gotta pay. There's a nice 2" example in the classifieds right now for $750 with the box and everything.

The Taurus offering is a Taurus, you might get lucky and get a good one or, like me, you might get one with issues. You've got about a 50/50 chance.

Charter Arms doesn't offer a 9mm revolver. They talked about it for about a year and a half but now they've removed all mention of it from they're website. They did make the Pit Bull in 9mm Federal a while back but it used a proprietary cartridge, the 9mm Federal, which was a rimmed 9mm ala the .45 Auto Rim. Neither the gun nor the cartridge caught on, nowadays it's mostly just an interesting paperweight.

You could do what several of us here have done and that is make your own. IMO, a 13oz 9mm snubby is something S&W should build, but they don't listen to me so I took matters into my own hands. My BUG is a 360J that has been rechambered to 9mm (9x23). You can also take a pre-J-magnum framed gun and have a 940 cylinder fitted to it.

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How do the ballistics compare of a 9mm vs a 38+p out of 2" barrel?

Did Smith ever make a Airweight 9mm J?

No, they only made the stainless steel 940 in the J-frame.

The 9mm is more efficient from a short barrel and operates at higher pressures, this gives it a significant ballistic advantage over the .38spl when comparing similar bullet weights.
Here are my chrono results comparing a few 9mm and .38spl loads fired from 2" barrel revolvers:

.38spl
WW 130gr FMJ = 689fps
WW 125gr JHP +P = 832fps
Federal 110gr Hydrashok = 873

9mm
WWB 115gr FMJ = 1096fps
Magtech 115gr FMJ = 1057fps
Magtech 115gr JHP +P = 1098
Federal 115gr JHP +P+ = 1174

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Thx for the chrono info WC145

There is one on GB. Ends in under 3 hr. No bids. Start at $599.

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tomshilling,
The 940 is an excellent revolver, unfortunately it is no longer in production and prices on the used market are high. I have a 2" 940 and my grail gun is a 940 with a 3" barrel. Some have had rough chambers that require polishing as the brass sticks after firing.

chp,
S&W made one 942 (lightweight 940) for Wiley Clapp. Wiley reported that it had quite a snappy recoil! A couple of forum members have taken a 642 and fit it with a 940 cylinder. You can search for several posts on how the conversion was done and read their range reports.

I recently picked up a 3" 940 and Love it. Like WC145 said with Taurus it's aboout 50/50. Having owned several Taurus revolvers I can attest to this. IMO Quality is worth paying for.

Personally I think people make way too much of 9mm recoil in a snubby. To me, standard 9mm ammo feels much the same as shooting .38spl +P from the same gun, hotter +P and +P+ are a little sharper but still nothing like .357 mags. My gun weighs 13oz, when I qualified with it I used WWB 115gr FMJ and shot 100 rds in about 35 minutes and it was really no big deal.

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BTW Smith & Wesson did make a 9mm Centennial Airweight the Model 942 but only "ONE" was ever made "By Them" & several others have been converted via cylinder reaming & cutting for moon clips & some have fit 940 cylinders to their Airweights..
I fit a 940-1 cylinder to my 642 No Dash & did so by filing the ratchet & set the end shake via Power Custom end shake shims so that the cylinder can be convertible into the 38spl Airweight..
The 9mm works very nice in this platform but some have extraction problems mostly due to rough cylinder bores that usualy can be fixed with Brownells Flex Hones which I have a set of in 9mm/38spl/357mag, I have loaned these to several forum members with great success..
Here's a few pics of the 642/942 Convertible & one of my 940 which wears the Smooth BTS Spegels..
The Airweight has the checkered grips..
Gary/Hk

9mm S&W Snubbies

I have a model 637 that was converted to 9mm moonclips by TK Custom. I've never had any extraction problems with any ammo I've fired through it, including +P. My carry load is Gold Dot 124 grain +P, same as I carry in my 3913.
The chambers are polished mirror smooth by Tom when he converts the cylinder, which is why I don't have any extraction problems.

The only disadvantage to the 940 is that it's heavy, if that matter to you. I carry my 2" 940 in a pocket holster and it doesn't bother me. As for velocity, I have gotten 1182 FPS with 124 gr. jacketed bullets and 1080 with 147 gr. jacketed bullets. I shot both these loads in the 90 plus degree heat the other day and did not have any extraction problems. I can beat these velocities in my 2" Model 60 .38 Special, but only by very little and the difference is not worth mentionin.

Dave Sinko

I wanted a 9mm snub nose but stayed away from it once I found out that you needed moon clips. If you don't want a .38, why don't you look at a .357mag....

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Oh, and why would any revolver that fires 9mm Federal NOT also fire 9mm Luger in moonclips? Was the Charter Arms deliberately manufactured this way?

Any 940 should be able to fire loose rounds without moonclips; moonclips are for extraction only. Or at least that's the way it was with the older revolvers. Only the newer "improved" models are unreliable without moonclips. I refuse to buy revolvers that need moonclips to fire, but moonclips in and of themselves are not a reason to scorn an otherwise fine revolver. When the revolver is properly made, moonclips are generally a win/win proposition.

Dave Sinko

I had a 940 several years ago, after two trips to S&W the extraction problems still weren't fixed, and I didn't feel like I should have to carry a mallet at work to be able to reload my BUG, so they made it good by trading me a new 642 for the 940.

I also think moon clips are good in theory, not so good in practice. They can get bent rather easily, and this ties the gun up badly when it happens.

I've never bent a moon clip myself & when I had extraction problems striking the ejector rod with my shot hammer could have bent the clips..
I always make sure their flat after I empty them by putting them on a flat marble slab.. So Far 100% on my moon clips which are TKs..

The extraction problems the 940s suffer from can usualy be cured by honing with the Brownells flex Hones, which can be sent to your home for the price of S&H = $4.95.. Email be if you need to use them, BTW I also have them in 9mm 38spl 357mag 41 mag 44spl 44mag 45LC & 45acp.. Thanks & Enjoy!!

940 Worth The premium?? Have a look @ Gunbroker now, There's one under $600 currently
Gary/Hk
[email protected]

As far as I know the Charter Arms Pit Bull was specifically designed around the 9mm Federal. The cylinder was not machined so you could use moonclips and I don't think that rimless 9mm cartridges will headspce on the case mouth like a 940. I believe they put all of they're eggs in the one ammo basket and it didn't work out so well.



On moonclips, I've never had an issue with them bending, I only use the ones sold on the S&W website. I can drop a couple in my pocket and they stay together and seem to be pretty rugged.

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When I bought my 940 all 30 moonclips that came with it were grotesquely bent out of shape. I don't know how the previous owner did this, since I haven't found a single load yet that sticks bad enough to really mangle them. Cor-Bon is the only load so far that comes close. I bent them all back into shape and save a few for carry. All others are for range work and practice. I never bent any of them due to force applied during extraction but one did get bent when it was loaded and dropped on the asphalt at the range. So far none has ever bent due to pocket carry.

I have found that I can make a satisfactory rimmed cartridge for this revolver by loading .38 S&W brass in 9mm dies. This cartridge will headspace on the case mouth and then extract with the rim. The rim is not thick enough to rest on the cylinder but for all intents and purposes it doesn't matter. The cartridges are a bit short to work well in speedloaders but it can be done. Obviously factory loaded .38 S&W will not fit into the cylinder.

Dave Sinko

I'm a little confused, does the 940 use moon clips?

The 940 is a moon-clip revolver, but despite the CYA warning in the manual from S&W....you CAN fire SAMMI spec. 9MM without the clips. The chambers are reamed to the cartridge spec., so the case-mouth sits on the ridge in the bottom of the chamber and won't fall thru. This allows you to fire without the clips. Some empties just fall right out, others will finger-nail out and occasionally you get one that has to be poked out if you don't use the clips, but I think it depends on the gun and how well the cylinders were bored. You have to be careful with reloads. If they are crimped too heavily, it will allow the case-mouth to fall past the ridge. Just as a precaution, I always use clips with my reloads, or make sure my loads are not overly crimped.

Recoil.......like others have reported above, I don't think it's a bit worse than 38-Special +P. Actually....less than +P fired from an Airweight. AND....the ammo is cheaper....current panic notwithstanding. AND....you would be surprised how fast you can feed a moon-clip revolver with some practice. Most will agree it's faster than using a speed-loader. Moon-clip revolvers are not only made due to the rimless cartridge it's chambered for, but for speed of loading as well. Many shooters have their rimmed ammo guns cut for moon-clips.

They have become expensive and I have seen them go for as high as $1325 on Gunpoker recently. The average price for the last few I've watched is around $850-$875.
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EDIT: I wanted to add my 2-cents worth concerning other brands of MC revolvers. I know Ruger makes (or did at one time make) one in 9MM. Taurus as well had//has a 9MM model. Both of these guns are not hammerless. I can't speak for the Ruger, but have "tried" to own various models made by Taurus. My success-rate on getting a Taurus to run reliably out of the box is about 40%. You can own a good shooting Taurus, but QC sux and you need to be a home-spun gunsmith at the least to tweak one. The biggest complaint you hear about the Taurus 905 is the wimpy moon-clips. The Smith 940 and the Ruger SP101 take the very same moon-clip and they are more robust and you can even purchase thicker clips. I guess in an attempt to answer the question posed in the thread.....yes. A model 940 is worth the premium as opposed to some other manufacturers. Whether it's worth the panic prices of today has to be left up to the individual. I have a strong feeling that the influx of available 940's popping-up on auction sites is due to owners cleaning out their safes and taking some healthy profits in the process. I think anybody willing to pay 1K and more for one plans to keep it. When this batch we see now for sale are gone...they will be just that much harder to find. So....if you want one you better grab one now.

Hello, I purchased. My 940 about 1992. I carried it for a long time (I am retired law enforcement ). I contacted S&W and had mine rechambered to
9x23. I use the same loads as a 38 super. Shoots great plus I can use 9x19, 9x21, or 9x23.

Good idea xraydave1, may have to think about doing it myself.

I guess it just all boils down to whether you're collecting or just needing a good bug. The collector-type would simply want to have one for his/her Jay-family. The Jay is not exactly what you'd call a range gun by any means in any caliber and there is simply no reason to pay the premium for one when a 38-special will do the job just as well. As for as speed-loading in a SD situation....unless you're in a combat-zone, about 5-shots is all your going to get off anyway before you or BG is disabled or dead. I do not think it's worth the premium as a tool, but I do for it's collector or rarity factor. If I came across a 640 for $450 and a 940 for $700-$800....I'd have a hard time justifying the 940 based on purpose alone.

My 940PC has been my summertime off-duty gun since I bought it from a forum member a couple years ago. I paid an average market price for the gun, which was alot. For me, the switch from my 640 had a lot to do with ammo; I have a limitless supply of 9mm to practice with and carry. Also, ammo compatibility: if my duty gun crapped out, I could use the ammo in the 940. I started with a regular 940, but the PC gun was even better. The .356 is awesome, the "Power port" on the barrel actually works and the white dot front sight is so much better then a standard gun. I put a set of Pachs on it to cover the exposed backstrap, and she is good to go. I've had some people give me the stink eye about carrying and using a limited edition gun, but to me it's been worth it. I'll never sell it, so I'm not really worried about the "dings" that working guns sometimes get. To me it was worth the premium.

Did S&W do that work for you? It wasn't an uncommon modification when 940s were being made new, but I've never heard of the factory being willing to do it.

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As others have stated, you must 'pay-the-freight' if you want quality, and reliability. I have never heard anywhere, that Taurus; or Charter Arms are 100% reliable. Always, hit or miss. As long as this is the case, they will be a 'miss' with me. A 9mm revolver makes sense on a lot different levels, with the obvious being 'commonality of ammunition'. Somehow, I missed-out on these excellent 'wheelies' during the early 90's when they were available. Instead, I purchased a Ruger SP-101 chambered for the 'Luger cartridge'. You might be able to find one of these 'floating-around', and they are definitely worth the money. Incidentally, I don't know why everyone has a repugnance towards 'moon-clips'. I've never experienced any issues with these in any revolver, which uses them. Here's a few pics of my vintage SP with Hogue gripes.

After conferring with S&W, I had my 940 rechambered to 9x23. I now can shoot 9x19, 9x21, and 9x23. I use 38 super loads. As I hate moon clips, I took 38 special cases, trimed to 23mm, ran through 9mm sizing dies and it works perfectly.