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S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present All NON-PINNED Barrels, the L-Frames, and the New Era Revolvers


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  #1  
Old 07-12-2010, 06:30 PM
Natty Bumpo Natty Bumpo is offline
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Question Do I need to use snap caps??

Hey Guys,

I have a M66-3 and a M65-5. For occasional dry fire practice, do I need to use snap caps with these guns??
If so, any recommendations on type, brand etc.Thanks.

Natty B
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Old 07-12-2010, 06:36 PM
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For occasional dry fire practice, no
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Old 07-13-2010, 08:45 AM
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Forgive me for highjacking this thread but, I've been lead to believe that dry-fire is OK with hammer-mounted pin, but NOT ok with frame-mounted (use snap-caps.)

I've been ripping off a hundred trigger pulls every day (w/out caps) with my 1987 vintage 49 to smooth out the action. Should I be using caps for this even though the pin is hammer-mounted?
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Old 07-13-2010, 09:39 AM
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Generally, dry firing the hammer mounted pin type will cause premature
wear of the bushing and pin.

The frame mounted type is probably ok, as the pin doesn't have to pivot
through the bushing.

Use spent cases with the primer punched out and filled with RTV to absorb
the impact. Cheaper than SnapCaps.
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Old 07-13-2010, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeeziks View Post
Forgive me for highjacking this thread but, I've been lead to believe that dry-fire is OK with hammer-mounted pin, but NOT ok with frame-mounted (use snap-caps.)
If anything, I think you've got the concerns reversed. I think the frame mounted are less prone to problems.

I agree with 500 Mag, occasional dry fire is fine, if you do a lot of it, use snap caps, can't hurt may very well help. Don
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Old 07-13-2010, 09:52 AM
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Wow, did I have that backwards.... Thanks guys.

You know...there are some on here that have given advice to "dry-fire a few thousand times to slick up the action," but I don't think they ever mentioned to use caps. It would've been a good idea to mention that.

Last edited by Skeeziks; 07-13-2010 at 10:00 AM.
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Old 07-13-2010, 10:18 AM
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The main thing you want to avoid is dry firing a rimfire, such as a 22LR, although I think Ruger might say it's okay with theirs.
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Old 07-13-2010, 12:20 PM
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I've been around guns, gun shops, ranges and self appointed experts for a LOOOONG time. I'm 63 now (age is a terrible price to pay for experience) and this thread brought to mind an oft repeated homily, "snapping dogs is bad, snapping turtles is worse but snapping guns is worst of all!". One thing I have found to be universally true, no matter what the shooting discipline, every really good shooter I've met spends a LOT of time dry firing. Look at the mechanics/design of the various firing systems. If there isn't a round in the chamber or a snap-cap in place all of the energy of the hammer/striker spring has to be absorbed by the frame/bushing/firing pin shoulder whichever. Is this bad... it ain't good. Will it immediately destroy you gun? Probably not. When I go boating I wear a life vest, when I shoot I wear ear and eye protection when I dry fire more than a few snaps to verify function I use some type of snap-cap. Just makes sense to me.
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Old 07-13-2010, 01:56 PM
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I've been dry firing for 30 years without snap caps without any problems. Maybe just luck. I don't know. Not 22.
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Old 07-13-2010, 02:31 PM
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the folks that made your S&W say dry fire is fine...exception is rimfires
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Old 07-13-2010, 03:03 PM
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I second kennyb, Smith says that you can dryfire anything except a rimfire, and I do, often, and without snap caps, with no apparent damage to any of my handguns.
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Old 07-13-2010, 04:30 PM
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I don't think it will do any real damage. But a set of snap caps or a few cases with RTV in the primer pocket don't cost much of anything either. I view it like an insurance policy, I'd rather have em and not need em then wear out the gun and have it go down when I did need it I also know of lots of my serious shooting buddies who have probably dry fired more times than we can count (one does it every day at one of 2 times, depending on his patrol schedule). If you want some snap caps grab some of the aluminum A-Zoom ones. I seem to have found they last a little better than the plastic, and they're roughly the same price.
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Old 07-13-2010, 04:31 PM
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I would never dry fire a S&W revolver that has the hammer mounted firing pin. And even for framed mounted firing pins, snap caps are cheap insurance.
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Old 07-13-2010, 04:39 PM
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Years ago, I spoke to Herb Belin, S&W revolver manager. In that conversation, I was discussing the .500 Mags. I asked about dry firing. He said it was fine but some people as he said "sit in front of the TV dry firing for hours" or words to that effect. That behavior, he didn't endorse. Don
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Old 07-13-2010, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kscardsfan View Post
If you want some snap caps grab some of the aluminum A-Zoom ones. I seem to have found they last a little better than the plastic, and they're roughly the same price.
I've got a dozen A-Zoom .45 Colt snap caps for my SA guns and my lever-guns and they work beautifully.
It's just that I was lead to believe by so many "experts" over the years that it was perfectly ok to dry-fire a DA.

BTW...what does "RTV" stand for and where can I get me some to stuff in the primer pockets?
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Old 07-13-2010, 06:54 PM
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RTV = Room Temperature Vulcanizing. Virtually all auto parts stores carry it. Permatex makes a good one.
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Old 07-13-2010, 09:24 PM
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Quote:
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RTV = Room Temperature Vulcanizing. Virtually all auto parts stores carry it. Permatex makes a good one.
Thanks for the info, Dobbs.
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Old 07-13-2010, 10:40 PM
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Snap caps are always a good idea if you a dry fire exhibitionist, but not using them in most firearms "might" not damage anything. Shooting standard ammo through a gun there is all kinds of pressured exerted that cause wear. What's better 1000 dry fires or 1000 +P+ rounds? $$$$
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Old 07-14-2010, 01:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srgvaz View Post
Snap caps are always a good idea if you a dry fire exhibitionist, but not using them in most firearms "might" not damage anything. Shooting standard ammo through a gun there is all kinds of pressured exerted that cause wear. What's better 1000 dry fires or 1000 +P+ rounds? $$$$
Financially, or mechanically lol? Ones going to be hard on your gun, the others going to be hard on your gun and your wallet!
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Old 07-15-2010, 01:52 PM
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I do a *lot* of dry firing, and I always use snap-caps. Why? Because it is cheap insurance and, like I said, I do it a lot.

FYI - I started out using the plastic and spring type caps, then I tried A-zoom aluminum caps. Here is what I have discovered:

1) The A-zoom will last longer....BUT
2) The A-zoom will leave marks on titanium cylinders AND on feed
ramps of certain auto-pistols (my Sigs come to mind).

I no longer use A-zoom snap caps on a titanium-cylinder revolver or on my auto pistols. I will only use them on steel cylinder revolvers.

Eventually the plastic and spring snap caps will fail (as they absorb all that repeated firing pin energy. Did I mention I dry-fire a lot?) but the softer plastic creates no potential damage to the clear-coated titanium cylinders or my feed ramps. Aluminum may be soft, but it is not soft enough for those applications.

If anyone out there has been using the A-zoom caps a lot on guns that are not steel, take a close look and you will see what I am talking about.

Cheers,

i8mtm
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Old 07-15-2010, 02:21 PM
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Snap caps are cheap. They are added protection that certainly can't hurt anything. No one seems to balk at buying a case to protect the exterior of a gun so snap caps seem like good insurance to protect your investment.
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Old 07-15-2010, 02:33 PM
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from the S&W website FAQ page:

Quote:
Q: Can I dry fire my Smith & Wesson?

A: Yes, except for the .22 caliber pistols which includes models 22A, 22S, 422, 2206, 2214, 2213 and 41.

.22 caliber revolvers such as models 17, 43, 63, 317 and 617 also should not be dry fired.

Q: Why can't I dry fire my .22 pistol or revolver?

A: Dry firing a S&W .22 pistol or revolver will cause damage to the firing pin.


FAQs - Smith & Wesson


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Old 07-15-2010, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i8mtm View Post
I do a *lot* of dry firing, and I always use snap-caps. Why? Because it is cheap insurance and, like I said, I do it a lot.

FYI - I started out using the plastic and spring type caps, then I tried A-zoom aluminum caps. Here is what I have discovered:

1) The A-zoom will last longer....BUT
2) The A-zoom will leave marks on titanium cylinders AND on feed
ramps of certain auto-pistols (my Sigs come to mind).

I no longer use A-zoom snap caps on a titanium-cylinder revolver or on my auto pistols. I will only use them on steel cylinder revolvers.

Eventually the plastic and spring snap caps will fail (as they absorb all that repeated firing pin energy. Did I mention I dry-fire a lot?) but the softer plastic creates no potential damage to the clear-coated titanium cylinders or my feed ramps. Aluminum may be soft, but it is not soft enough for those applications.

If anyone out there has been using the A-zoom caps a lot on guns that are not steel, take a close look and you will see what I am talking about.

Cheers,

i8mtm
How are you feeding them into your sigs? I have been using mine in my 220 and haven't noticed any adverse effects, but I usually load it from the mag and leave it there until I put it back in the safe.
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Old 07-15-2010, 05:19 PM
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I would use snap caps.Do you want the cushioning effect of a steel fp hitting a brass shell or spring loaded snap cap before being stopped by the frame or just steel hitting steel?
No doubt many get away with it,but I would imagine that if the parts of an extensively dry fired gun were magnafluxed,they would look different than a protected gun.
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Old 07-15-2010, 06:29 PM
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I loaded the A-Zooms into my Sig's from the magazine, just like a regular round. The one I noticed the problem with was the .45 ACP. Unless A-Zoom has re-designed there snap-caps, the .45 has a slight "step" machined into the cap to simulate the bullet into the case. I found this was hitting the feed ramp on my Sig and made noticeable marks.

Running my finger-tips over this "step" it felt very rough, and you could see where the anodizing had been worn off.

I feel much better using the more fragile plastic and brass snap-caps.

I even take it one step further with the Sigs. According to some on the Sig Forum, Sig decided to change the slide pin on current models from the solid steel one to the new coiled steel one as there had been some reports of breakage due to EXCESSIVE DRY-FIRING. Apparently the solid pin in the stainless steel slides is very difficult to remove. The new design is more flexible and easier to replace should it need it.

So in addition to snap-caps in the chamber, I also put 3/4 of a foam earplug in front of the hammer, smushed into the back of the slide. Now there is almost NO impact on the firing pin or the slide, and yet the foam earplug does not impede double-action or single-action dry-fire practice. It doesn't hurt, and it can only help. That is my .02
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Old 07-16-2010, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i8mtm View Post
I loaded the A-Zooms into my Sig's from the magazine, just like a regular round. The one I noticed the problem with was the .45 ACP. Unless A-Zoom has re-designed there snap-caps, the .45 has a slight "step" machined into the cap to simulate the bullet into the case. I found this was hitting the feed ramp on my Sig and made noticeable marks.

Running my finger-tips over this "step" it felt very rough, and you could see where the anodizing had been worn off.

I feel much better using the more fragile plastic and brass snap-caps.

I even take it one step further with the Sigs. According to some on the Sig Forum, Sig decided to change the slide pin on current models from the solid steel one to the new coiled steel one as there had been some reports of breakage due to EXCESSIVE DRY-FIRING. Apparently the solid pin in the stainless steel slides is very difficult to remove. The new design is more flexible and easier to replace should it need it.

So in addition to snap-caps in the chamber, I also put 3/4 of a foam earplug in front of the hammer, smushed into the back of the slide. Now there is almost NO impact on the firing pin or the slide, and yet the foam earplug does not impede double-action or single-action dry-fire practice. It doesn't hurt, and it can only help. That is my .02
Tried your ear plug trick last night watching my My Name is Earl reruns. I loved it, made the hammer falling much less painful and annoying sounding, both to the gun and my ears. I'm going to start doing that with more of my guns. Makes it much more pleasant to do for a half hour or so.
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Old 07-16-2010, 11:42 PM
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Glad you liked it.

It really does help make dry-firing as "stress-free" to the gun as possible....and being quieter is nice too!

Cheers,

i8mtm
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Old 07-16-2010, 11:51 PM
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My two cents?

There's no reason why you shouldn't.

They don't cost an arm and a leg. It's cheap insurance should you have a problem.

Snap caps cost a fraction of what a decent gun cost.

I use them all the time and feel good about it.

Kind of like not being lazy and doing the right thing.
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Old 07-17-2010, 01:13 AM
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Yeah I felt like that when I called in a fender bender I had on a parked car, until the drug test and insurance co. started being real pains in my rear. I now hate insurance and lawyers even more than I did before, and I question why I do the right thing when all it does is screw me lol, but I know deep down I would feel even worse if I didn't do the right thing so I keep doing it lol j/k
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Old 07-26-2010, 04:50 PM
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I don't understand dry firing? Don't understand what purpose it serves. Kinda like sitting behind the wheel of a car, but not driving it. The results are totally different when you pop a cap, just like cranking the darn car.
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Old 07-26-2010, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
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I don't understand dry firing? Don't understand what purpose it serves. Kinda like sitting behind the wheel of a car, but not driving it. The results are totally different when you pop a cap, just like cranking the darn car.
Don't understand dry firing?

Dry firing allows you to "practice" anytime, anywhere at zero cost.

Dry firing allows you to learn the "feel" of your gun right as the hammer trips or the sear breaks. This helps to improve accuracy when shooting for real.

Dry firing with laser grips will allow you to see and learn to control your wobble.

Dry firing will improve your shooting skills.

Finally, I have noticed on some of my guns that dry firing has produced a defacto "trigger job" and the actions have smoothed nicely compared to when they were brand-new.

I believe dry firing is an essential part of any training regimen.

Cheers,

i8mtm
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Old 07-26-2010, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
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I don't understand dry firing? Don't understand what purpose it serves. Kinda like sitting behind the wheel of a car, but not driving it. The results are totally different when you pop a cap, just like cranking the darn car.
Once you've learned how to manage recoil, most of your practice should be dry firing. It lets you practice trigger technique without recoil to mask your faults. When I used to practice seriously about 90% of my trigger pulls were with an empty gun.
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Old 09-11-2012, 02:29 PM
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My concerns are preventing dry fire impacts while shooting 22LR. I have a SIG with 22LR caliber excahnge kit but the slide does not lock back after the last shot. I'm counting my shots but but I'd liek to have some additional insurance. I got it used and it was dry fired eough so that it would not eject/cycle reliabley. Now it's fixed and don't want to do any new damage. So my 10 round mags beome 9, oh well. I hope the #4 drywall anchors will feed. What a great idea!
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Old 09-11-2012, 08:15 PM
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When using Apex or C&S firing pins in a frame mounted set up they (manufacturer) say to use snap caps when dry firing. The groove for the retaining pin is extended on those firing pins.
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Old 09-11-2012, 10:22 PM
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Are snap caps necessary, I don't know. I do know they are cheap and easy to get, so why not use them. Before someone asks, I've also been known to use a belt and suspenders.
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Old 09-11-2012, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i8mtm View Post
Don't understand dry firing?

Dry firing allows you to "practice" anytime, anywhere at zero cost.

Dry firing allows you to learn the "feel" of your gun right as the hammer trips or the sear breaks. This helps to improve accuracy when shooting for real.

Dry firing with laser grips will allow you to see and learn to control your wobble.

Dry firing will improve your shooting skills.

Finally, I have noticed on some of my guns that dry firing has produced a defacto "trigger job" and the actions have smoothed nicely compared to when they were brand-new.

I believe dry firing is an essential part of any training regimen.

Cheers,

i8mtm
Well put. I practice most every day. Putting a red laser dot on my wife's favorite stuffed Pooh Bears tummy and dry firing my snubby. It's great for trigger control practice and has served to improve my accuracy.
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Old 09-12-2012, 12:30 PM
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M3Stuart M3Stuart is offline
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[QUOTE=kscardsfan;135543570]I don't think it will do any real damage. But a set of snap caps or a few cases with RTV in the primer pocket don't cost much of anything either. /QUOTE]

Question; what is this 'RTV' of which you speak?
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But then, what do I know?
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Old 09-12-2012, 01:08 PM
Imaposer Imaposer is offline
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[QUOTE=M3Stuart;136702598]
Quote:
Originally Posted by kscardsfan View Post
I don't think it will do any real damage. But a set of snap caps or a few cases with RTV in the primer pocket don't cost much of anything either. /QUOTE]

Question; what is this 'RTV' of which you speak?
Room Temperature Vulcanization. Basically a silicone rubber sealant commonly used in automotive applications. There are a few different types for specific uses but you can pick up a tube anywhere auto parts are sold.
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Old 09-12-2012, 03:33 PM
FRAN357 FRAN357 is offline
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I would not dry fire any s&W revolvers with a counterbore cyl or22.Some times you can get a throw- by and you end up with a ding on your cyl .And you will have a hard time to ext. your cases
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Old 09-12-2012, 05:54 PM
AveragEd AveragEd is offline
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I'm not sure I would trust RTV to provide much cushioning action for the firing pin. Every RTV I have ever used, except some anaerobic types, is "rubbery" when cured but still easily punctured with something like a firing pin. Once it is punctured, it doesn't "heal" shut and the pin would just continue to enter that hole.

Likewise, fired casings with a dented primer in place are a popular substitute for snap caps but the dent doesn't get any deeper with dry-firing, so using them is just kidding yourself. Spring a few bucks for a set of snap caps.

Ed
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