New 625JM – Very disappointed in quality / fit & finish.. UPDATE: Resolution/response

New 625JM – Very disappointed in quality / fit & finish.. UPDATE: Resolution/response

Hi Guys,

Late yesterday afternoon I took possession of a brand new S&W 625JM revolver that I purchased from a large online gun dealer. The gun was brand new in the box (never in a display case) with the test fired cartridge envelope showing a build date of 7/8/2010. This makes the gun less than three weeks old.

After getting home with the revolver and having a chance to look at it close up, I am disappointed to find that the quality and fit & finish is nowhere near what I have come to expect from S&W. Some of the issues I have noted are as follows:
*Pitting on top portion of barrel, both sides
*Large scratch in finish on side of barrel
*Barrel crown uneven/misformed and shows pitting.
*Poorly fit sideplate
*Misc. small nicks/tooling marks on frame in multiple places.

Are these common issues for current production S&W revolvers?

For a gun with a MSRP of over $1,100, and carrying the Jerry Miculek name, I'm a bit shocked to see these types of issues present. While each issue (except the barrel crown) may seem somewhat minor on its own, when put together it creates a gun that is not worthy of the S&W brand name.

If anyone can provide me with a corporate contact person @ S&W, I would greatly appreciate it. (Send PM).
Considering the price I paid for this gun, I expect S&W to replace the gun with one that has been quality control inspected by the performance center, or issue me a full refund. I'm not interested in having this gun worked on or refinished.

Thanks in advance.
James








****UPDATE****
Hello All,

Just wanted to update my original post with the outcome of this issue, as I promised I would.

The gun was returned to the factory using a pre-paid shipping label provided by S&W. Several days later, I received the following email from Kate, a S&W Warranty Dept. Manager. :

===========================================
(James),
We have received your new Model 625 revolver in
our Service Department for our examination.
We have gone through your list of concerns and found that
there is a very fine scratch on the barrel. The pitting that
you note is not actually pitting in the barrel. It is tiny marks
when the barrel is being forged. We had to use a jeweler's eye
to actually see these marks. As far as the sideplate fit, it is well
within our manufacturing standards.
The repairs could be handled under the Lifetime Service Policy
as stated in your safety instruction manual, but you do
note that you would prefer to have your purchase price
reimbursed. If you would like to be reimbursed for the handgun,
please forward A copy of your bill of sale to my attention at 2100 Roosevelt
Ave., Springfield, MA 01104.
Thank you,
Kate
Customer Service
Department
===============================================

As a long time S&W customer, I am disappointed that they seem to consider the defects present on this gun to be normal and "well within our manufacturing standards". I also find it interesting that they had to use a "jeweler's eye" to see the pitting defects, since my 5+ year old digital camera seemed to capture it just fine.

To S&W's credit, they did honor my request for a refund and the check arrived in the mail today.

To sum it up, I will remain a (reluctant) S&W customer, but will no longer attempt to purchase their products online. The risk of getting a gun that hasn't been property QC inspected is just too great, in my opinion. Any new S&W's I buy will either be through gun shows, or other local venues where I can carefully inspect the gun for defects prior to purchase.

James

call S&W. when the messages start press "0". That will get you to a live person / operator. The recoil shield on that gun looks like it has been beat with a chain, but be nice if possible. I'd tell the operator that I need a refund on a gun that I just purchased at.....I bet that online dealer was saving the junk for sight unseen buyers.

625 JM

Funny--I just bought the same gun and it is the nicest S&W I've ever bought.Out of the box perfect!

625 JM

James,
Here's Jerry's # 318-949-1303 call......
and a email......... [email protected] I send him a email about
3 weeks ago ...... and KAY (wife) did call me back.
This is why I buy older and ONLY pre-lock guns.

I no longer expect glassy 1930s-era perfection on a modern S&W, but I sure expect better than that. That gun should never have been shipped. That's the kind of surface I would not be surprised to see on a down-market firearm like those made by (insert name of cheap and fast manufacturer here).

All but one of my S&W's were bought new and made in '01 or later - and they've been fine. That includes an early 625JM. You got something that should be replaced. S&W will take care of you, even if it takes a while! That is a fine revolver... or it should be... hang in there!

Stainz

PS All of mine were bought locally... from a gunstore.

*Barrel crown uneven/misformed and shows pitting.

This explains a lot in my situation. I bought a 625 JM on gunbroker and the crown looks like it was done by an angry beaver. At first I thought that it may have been the victim of a amature smith. The more I looked at it I realized that he would have been a disaster at removing metal but an expert at replacing it, meaning I have a horrible crown between 10 o'clock and 4, and no crown at all between 4 and 10. Also every screw needed tightened for the side plate and sights, and my guess is that the original owner soth it very little. They must have some bad tooling and quailty control. I called and was disapointed with the answer I received.

I agree they should replace your revolver. Someone should let Jerry know about the stuff they are sending out with his name on it. I got a great deal on my and may just correct my issues on my own.

i'm sure S&W will make this right...i have the 625 JM,51/2"barrel from the performance center....deadly accurate and no issues whatsoever..keep us posted

I see threads like these fairly often on various forums, and not just S&W. I have a Ruger that looks just a bit better than that out of the box, but it shoots good & I don't expect fine finish on a Ruger...so I've ignored it. However, S&W revolvers seem to run around $150 more than equivalent S&W models, and I expect to get more for my money. I bought a S&W in June (60LS) and barely looked at it when I went in to pick it up. I got lucky and it was in excellent shape, but I don't think anyone can ASSUME it anymore.

The lesson I've taken away is that as manufacturers have ramped up to meet increased demand, their QC has gone downhill. I don't mind buying sight unseen from a large Internet site, but I now figure I need to do a thorough inspection on receiving the gun. Full function check and a careful look at the fit & finish. If it doesn't pass, don't take delivery. I think the customer now needs to do the QC that the manufacturers are not providing.

That is a result of bad/no QC or S&W has lowered their standards. I don't think it would be economically feasible to fix it so their only option would be to replace it.

Some of those defects I could probably live with, though I'd rather not have to. Especially on a gun costing as much as that one did. The crown, OTOH, is pathetic. The recoil shield doesn't look to good either, but I doubt it would hinder performance. Have you shot the gun? Just wonder if the crown treatment is as bad as it looks. Hopefully S&W will undertake to remedy this situation.

That is a gun that needs replacing. I agree with you on the condition and I would insist on a new gun. I don't think they could even fix all that shows in your pics.

just one of the many reasons i don't buy any of the new stuff. every time i see something like this, it reinforces my belief. yes, all companies put things out they shouldn't,but i don't accept that as an excuse. fix the problem in the first place and you don't have to deal with this sort of thing. i can't believe it doesn't cost more in the long run with the extra bookkeeping, shipping,inspecting, and probably scrapping a large part of this gun. besides the bad press this always brings.

Just my opinion, but you got to be careful buying a Bangor Punta gun too. A lot of those I have looked at had timing issues. Maybe I just looked at too small a sample, but I learned to pay special attention to all guns that way.

I would not like to shell out those kind of bucks for a poorly finished gun, either.

Mine is put together like Eggs and Sausage. No problems at all.

Hi Guys,

Thanks for all of the very helpful responses. You've confirmed my thoughts on the gun. No, I haven't shot it and don't intend to. S&W needs to take this one back.

I am in the process of contacting S&W to see what they will do for me. I'm requesting either a full refund of my purchase price and xfer fees, or a (brand new) replacement gun that has been fully QC inspected prior to shipping. (This one obviously wasn't)

I sent a fax early this afternoon but didn't receive any reply before close of business today. I'll give them another day to respond, then I'll be going on to the corporate/certified mail route. (I prefer to have this type of communication in writing)

If anyone has contact info for a specific person @ S&W that may be able to help with this type of issue, I would greatly appreciate it.

I'll continue to update once I know more.

Thanks,
James

$1000 sems ike a lot of money but at todays L&O rates it's amazing that they can offer anything made in the uSA for that price range. How does the gun shoot - that is the ultimate test.

Give them a call, they will fix it for you.

I need to take the gloves off for this one. My only new revolver purchase in two years was my 2 5/8" PC627 - $1006 at a LGS - but I got the 'first'. A PC Shop piece and it had poorly-fitted grips. I returned the grips. It took them a month to send me another identical set - with a grip screw that stuck out by 1/4". Calls & e-mails later, they sent me another FEDEX label for the grips - and another one for the entire revolver! Subsequent calls basically said send the gun back. The problem? Simple - the original run (1999) had different frame radii behind the trigger guard than the current N-frames (post 2000). The current wider radii will close up perfectly over old or new frames; the older grips' tighter radii won't close up on the wider radii modern frames. I figured it out - why can't they?

It's simple. They are banking on me not sending the gun back - and they are right. The revolver, in my case, is perfect - it fits my hand better with other grips anyway. Some folks will accept less than others - that must be what they are hoping for as a result. I know that is why your gun made it out the door. Call their 800# - get the CS guy you talk to to give you his name and extension - and request an overnite FEDEX label - you'll get it in a few days. They will pickup and return your firearm to your street address. Your revolver should get a replacement - possibly a new s/n. In that eventuality, it will have to go to an ffl holder for transfer. The letter used to state that they didn't insure firearms - they would replace any lost guns. Win win there! Just clearly list all of the faults in your included letter - with the model & s/n. That is normally a real keeper - when it is right, it is a delight to plink with - a frugal big bore. Good luck!

Stainz

PS One design problem - those sharp grooves on the trigger face - DNA samples every use - until you ease them with some Emery cloth!

I realize that any company, no matter what its reputation can sometimes let a lemon squeeze out the door. But, I have to say: you are 110% correct for wanting a full refund and/or an acceptable quality replacement. If the revolver was $200-300 brand new, you might not have such an argument, but $1000 and up is real money…especially to a working guy like myself.

I had the honor of serving under a Captain, a good man named Barry Travis, (R.I.P Barry…) while during my time with FDNY-EMS, and he had a saying to help explain why the world can be so full of pot-holes sometimes: "The world is run by D students…"
While I am no genius…I wish that quote didn't ring so true at times.

Not to come off like a crank, but with few exceptions, if you take a look around and see what passes for hard work these days, it is no surprise that pride in craftsmanship is becoming the rare exception & not the rule.

I really wish you the best with your experiences with S&W Customer Service, as many of the forum members here think, I agree that they will do the right thing. Please keep us posted.