Hello, new gun owner. I have a few basic questions if you guys don't mind.

[thunderhead]

Quick history, I’m 27, did 3 years in the army as field artillery and one tour to Iraq.

I’ve owned a shotgun since i was young but I just bought my first handgun.

I bought a 686 4inch barrel, now i wasn't planning on carrying but i think i might, now my big debate is weather i want to get a semi to carry as well or if i want to get a snub to carry.

Either way i hear all this talk about different kinds of .38 ammo and different .375 ammo and different grain and stuff. now this totally confuses me. Can someone break this stuff down a little bit for me?

Next is there any semi that shoots the same ammo as a revolver? I doubt it but it would be nice to have lots of ammo that would fit both weapons.

Does ammo ever go bad?

Im thinking about buying a few hundered dollar gun safe, something for my shotgun and that will fit a few handguns and a lot of ammo, it won't have any ventilation in it. is there anything i need to worrie about with that?

Thanks, and I’m sure I’ll have a ton more questions soon

[H Richard]

I'll try and cover some of this for you. In general, revolver ammo will not work in a semi-auto. The revolver requires (normally) a "rimmed" ammo, and a semi-auto requires a "rimless" ammo. There are exceptions to the rule, as there are some semi-auto's that shoot .357's, (but are scarce and expensive), and there are revolvers that will shoot 9mm and 45acp semi-auto ammo, but usually require "moon clips" to hold them in the revolver cylinders.

For practical purposes, you probably won't find a semi-auto to fire the .38's and .357's you use in your 686.

Ammo if stored under proper conditions, dry and reasonably cool, will last many many years. Not indefinitely, but much longer than you will probably own that 686. I have ammo that is well over 30 years old and still shoot it on occasion.


Storing ammo in gun safe without ventilation is no problem unless it is in an excessively hot environment, such as an attic or uninsulated garage. If it is in a part of the house where you feel reasonably comfortable the ammo will be fine. Ammo stored in excessively hot environments "it is said" will shorten it's life. I cannot testify to this as I store all my ammo in my basement in GI ammo cans.

The 686 is a rather large, but not too large, and you will have to work to carry it concealed. Something smaller such as a J Frame you will find will be able to be carried concealed much easier. There are many who will carry a 686.

[Jst1mr]

I'll take a shot (pardon the pun), and I am sure others will pile on as well...
Semi vs. snub to carry: totally a personal choice with strong arguments both ways. Reliability vs. capacity vs.ease of use vs. concealability , etc, etc. Often the best answer is both, perhaps the semi as a primary and the snub as a backup, Much depends on where, how, and why you carry.
Ammo: most handguns of the same caliber will accept many different types of ammo. Variations include weight of the bullet itself (in grains) and the type of bullet (lead, jacketed, etc. . here is where you have the opportunity to learn a seemingly endless string of acronyms JHP, SJHP, and on and on). For instance a 9mm may shoot bullets of 115 grain, 124 grain, 147grain, etc in different style or design of bullets FMJ (Full Metal Jacket) JHP (Jacketed Hollow Point), etc. Different bullet weights and designs affect matters such as penetration and expansion, and thereby the effectiveness of the round for specific purposes. Rest assured these are favorite subjects of debate amongst shooters (...what is the best round for...?).
The most common crossover between semi and revolver may be the .45ACP - hard to argue the merits of this one, and performs well in semiautos as well as revolvers (where "moonclips" may be required to hold the cartridges).
Ammo can go bad over time, especially if stored improperly, but in my case it never seems to hang around long enough to become an issue!
If you are in an area where humidity/moisture is of a concern, you can purchase dessicant packs for your safe, as well as other devices such as a GoldenRod dehumidifier. Neither will be a substitute for proper cleaning and storage techniques, however.
Whew! Oh, and did I say, welcome to the forum, there is a wealth of info available here (as well as some fascinating characters!)

[dant]

Welcome to the Forum, and for your service, we "thank you".......
as for the questions, we can try, vut you will get LOTS of different opinions, and personal preferences,I say use what YOU like, what YOU can afford and what YOU are GOOD , and comfortable using, as welll as accurate with......auto or revolver, no matter to us, have used and carried them off and on for years.....
your 686 is more of a 'duty' type gun, and would be useful as a home defense gun, or for out "plinking" tec...smaller is better for carry...personal carry is dependant on what YOU are going to be using it for, as such, you only need what is good enough to do the job, you're not hunting elephants ,nor are you going into combat (though in some locales, we wonder as to that ......hhmmm)
as far as "breakdowns" between calibers, best to get a hold of a ballistics manual, and do some reading & study again, it's a LOT to cover, too much for here, and again,, "personal preference....."
anyway, I prefer a smaller revolver, and am quite content and feel good enough with ,a .38 special,LOTS of good loads out there these days, that do the job...hell I carried a Beretta 21A .22 lr for over 15 years and it worked for us, and was VERY accurate, and I was GOOD with it..but my feeling is a S&W ,like a model 60 which is really our best all around, off duty ,carry piece......but the Beretta was a "handier", pocket pistol...
yes, my first 'duty gun was a model 19 .357 mag and we went through two of them, LOTS and LOTS of rounds went through them........
as for which is better? its a **** shoot and again, personal preference.
yes, there are and have been handguns that shot the 'same' rounds, whether as a revolver or a semi auto, many of them have come and gone,mainly though they were of course 22 cal, then 9mm, and 45 acp.yes, 357 mags and 44 mags are in there too but get bit harder to find and and much costlier to shoot...22 & 9mm are the most common

No, ammo does NOT go bad, unless it is exposed to the elements or improper storage ( damp,wet,) or damaged by improper handling???
we've had and shot ammo from the turn of "last" century (pre WWI...)

finally as for the 'safe' any safe company can tell you and advise as to what THEY use.......we use a few packets of 'desicant' have used it for years, we do NOT have a problem with dampness or moisture...where you live will determine that one...some guys just use a light bulb and there are products .ala "Golden Rod" that use a heated element to reduce moisture........easy enough, don't locate the safe in one of those environments...better to worry about where and how you locate the safe, so it doesn;t make a "handy -dandy" carry case for some thief.....bolt 'er down.
These are some of MY thoughts, ,works for US, and again, "thank you" and glad to have you aboard....great site and these guys will give you LOTS of other ideas and info...your head may spin......

[togap]

Thunderhead, welcome from another old artilleryman from the 60's. This is a great forum with lots of friendly, knowledgable folks.

[ajpelz]

Welcome to the forum and thank you for your service. I am glad that you made it home safe and sound.

The 686 is an excellent gun, one of the best revolvers ever made IMHO. Durable, powerful, and a weather resistant finish.

As mentioned, the 686 4" is slightly large for daily carry. It certainly can be done, but there are lots of guns out there that are much smaller and lighter.

As for the debate on 38/357 ammo, no matter what you choose, someone will tell you that you are right, other people will tell you that you are wrong. Everyone has an opinion, and many differ. It basically boils down to a lightweight projectile traveling faster, or a heavier projectile traveling slower. If you ask my opinion, I think that the 158 grain bullet is ideal for those calibers. Others like 110, 125, or 180. All I know for sure, is that I would not want to stand in front of any of them, and ALL of them would be likely to get the job done so long as shot placement is on target.

Calibers that crossover from semi-auto to revolver or vice-versa are out there. 22LR, 9mm, 40 S&W, 10mm, 44 Magnum, 45 ACP and I am sure many more exist. That being said, I do not think that owning 2 guns of the same caliber is as useful as you may think. I own at least 10 different caliber of guns, and if the gun is a shooter, it has an adequate supply of ammo in that caliber.

As for ammo going bad, I have shot lots of ammo that is WWII surplus, the storage conditions over the last 70 years are probably questionable at best, and I have never had serious trouble. Every once in a while I come across a dud, but then again I get duds that were manufactured just a few weeks prior to their failure. I would not be comfortable carrying ammo for self-defense that was more than 20 years old, or that had significant or unusual corrosion. As the saying goes, keep your powder dry, and I think you will have little to worry about.

If you do get a safe, throw some desiccant or a golden rod in there. It is super cheap compared to the cost of your firearms and ammo.

[thunderhead]

Well i don't plan to carry the 686 i plan to use it for home defense and just general shooting.

The safe will go in a closest at home so it will stay around room temp, do i need to worried about the guns in there getting rusted or anything?

Next question ive been wondering is if you keep a semi loaded for a long period of time will the springs in the mag start to go bad? I mean if i keep my 686 at the house loaded there isn't any pressure but if you keep a loaded semi i was wondering if the springs or anything can start to wear. How long do mags and all that usually stay good for on a semi?

BTW Richard I never plan to sell my .357 (im sure you all said that one before lol but really i don't)

im really thinking for a semi going Glock, either a .40 .45 .357 my main reason for wanting to go Glock is because you hear how reliable they are at a great cost, i can get any of the above for 550+ Tax New where a Kimber 1911 is around 1300+

[thunderhead]

Another lol sorry...
How often do you clean your gun?
I kept talking to the gun shop owner about how to clean and strip each gun down and cleaning (I also bought a ruger pistol .22 LR) This is just for plinking and getting the wife into firing slowly. Anyways when we remembered I was in the Army he laughed and said that’s why I’m so scared of carbon and dirt in guns cause I’m use to the M-16. He said just whip a bit down here and there and spry them once in awhile and I’ll be just fine.

Well I didn't listen at all I’ve cleaned both gun very well after each time I’ve shoot them. am I being extreme here or am I doing the right thing?

Also should you oil them after each cleaning? How about if you don't fire them for a long time should you reoil them? and if so how often?

thanks again

[luangtom]

I am a revolver guy. I have owned semi-autos and carried one as a LEO for years, but my personal-carry weapon is a revolver. As an instructor of civilians, I recommended revolvers for first guns and for safety and simplicity. There is nothing wrong with a revolver. That being said, a carry-gun in J-frame configuration is most easily concealed. It may only have 5-shots, but most often that is quite enough for any confrontation in a real-life scenario. Speed-strips and speed-loaders are easily mastered and fulfill the need for more shots rather quickly.

Another plus for revolvers for newbies is that they do not have jams and have to be cleared. The mis-fire is gone when you pull the trigger again and the cylinder revolves.

This is just my two-cents worth. Go with your comfort-zone and carry safe.

By the way, leaving cartridges in the magazines is not what wears them out. It is the over-use of them that wears the springs out, be in a pistol-magazine or a shot-gun magazine. There are documented cases of WWII .45-auto magazines being loaded and left since the war and still function.

[Steve_NEPhila]

See my responses in blue, below...

Originally Posted by thunderhead

Quick history, I’m 27, did 3 years in the army as field artillery and one tour to Iraq.

I’ve owned a shotgun since i was young but I just bought my first handgun.

I bought a 686 4inch barrel, now i wasn't planning on carrying but i think i might, now my big debate is weather i want to get a semi to carry as well or if i want to get a snub to carry.

Very few firearm enthusiasts own just one or two firearms. No single firearm exists that can do it all, and do it well. Firearms are specialized tools and there are many many types and varieties. Shop away.

Either way i hear all this talk about different kinds of .38 ammo and different .375 ammo and different grain and stuff. now this totally confuses me. Can someone break this stuff down a little bit for me?

Ammunition is subject to the laws of gravity and other physical forces. You were trained in artillery, lighter projectiles usually go faster with the same powder charge, fly a bit further yet retain less energy when they arrive at their target. Heavier projectiles retain more energy then lighter ones and usually go a bit slower. The .357 Mag and .38 special usually has bullet weights from about 110 grains to 158 grains for the vast majority of commercially available ammunition. The lighter bullets go faster (only when compared within the same cartridge, .38 special is about half the pressure of .357 Mag, so the magnum will outperform the special) and the heavier bullets go a bit slower. What is most important in ammunition selection is bullet performance and point of impact. For example, if a fixed sight J frame works best with 158 grain loads, shooting 110 grain loads for defense will cause the bullets to strike high in relation to the point of aim. Spend some time reading gun magazines and online articles about ammunition and it will come.

Next is there any semi that shoots the same ammo as a revolver? I doubt it but it would be nice to have lots of ammo that would fit both weapons.

The desert eagle shoots some rimmed cartridges (for revolvers) yet it weighs a ton, is expensive and is of dubious practicality. The only good example of a cartridge that I know of that works really well in both revolvers and automatics is the universal .22 LR. Every serious shooter has at least one .22 handgun, usually more.

Does ammo ever go bad?
Depends on how you store it. Keep it cool and dry and it will outlast you.


Im thinking about buying a few hundered dollar gun safe, something for my shotgun and that will fit a few handguns and a lot of ammo, it won't have any ventilation in it. is there anything i need to worrie about with that?
There is no need to store ammunition in a safe. A locker is just fine, costs less and keeps the two separate.


Thanks, and I’m sure I’ll have a ton more questions soon

[P&R Fan]

I also want to welcome you and thank you for your service.
I think the 686 is a wise choice for a home defense gun, especially if family members who are not as skilled will possibly be using it. A revolver is extremely simple to use, which is good. I think you would find a Glock to be an excellent choice for carry, I have three and really like them.
As far as storage, if you get a safe check out the Goldenrod as several people have mentioned. Both of my Zanotti safes have them and they work great. I would advise you to wipe the guns down with a rust preventative substance. I use RIG (Rust inhibiting grease). It works great. Whenever I handle my blued guns I wipe them down, as even fingerprints can cause rust.
Keep checking out the forum and you'll learn a great deal. I wish you all the best.

[thunderhead]

So a J-Frame and a compact semi would both conceal about the same?

[P&R Fan]

The most important variable in that equation is holster selection. Yes, I can conceal a revolver as well as a semi-auto because I have good holsters.

[ajpelz]

Originally Posted by thunderhead

Well I didn't listen at all I’ve cleaned both gun very well after each time I’ve shoot them. am I being extreme here or am I doing the right thing?

Also should you oil them after each cleaning? How about if you don't fire them for a long time should you reoil them? and if so how often?

thanks again

Many more guns are damaged due to over-cleaning than not being cleaned enough. I run a bore snake with some hoppes 9 through the barrel and chamber after each range session, wipe them down and oil.

About once every year, I detail clean guns that have been shot, and check ALL guns for adequate oil protection. Only way I would detail clean more often than once a year is when 500-1000 rounds have been fired since the last detail cleaning.

Of course all this goes out the window if you are using corrosive primers. Shooting off .22 and 38/357, this is something that you should not have to worry about.

[blujax01]

ajpelz, I'm curious. What sort of damage am I incurring to my firearms by "over-cleaning" them? I shoot a S&W Highway Patrolman, a Model 36 and an M&P9C as well as a 20year old Colt M1911 on a weekly basis and clean them all thoroughly after each use. Jags, mops, brushes - the whole nine.

[scooter123]

Quick history, I’m 27, did 3 years in the army as field artillery and one tour to Iraq.

I’ve owned a shotgun since i was young but I just bought my first handgun.

I bought a 686 4inch barrel, now i wasn't planning on carrying but i think i might, now my big debate is weather i want to get a semi to carry as well or if i want to get a snub to carry.

Nobody can really tell you what you should choose for a carry gun, that's a decision that you'll have to make for yourself. About all we can do is give you a bit of advice on where to start the process of choosing a carry gun.

A common carry revolver is the S&W J frame and there is a wide spectrum of models in this frame size. You have the hammerless DAO models such as the 342 or 442 and the models that have a hammer such as the model 60 or a shrouded hammer such as the 438. Weight is also all over that map, you can get a 357 Magnum that only weighs about 12 ounces or a stainless steel model 60 that weighs in at about 24 ounces. I’ll want you to make sure that you actually try out any of the lighter models because the recoil in the featherweights can be Brutal. I wouldn’t even consider shooting the 340PD with 357 Magnum, it’s just much too light for the power of a 357 Magnum. Even with the much milder 38 spl. The 340PD can be a real beast to shoot. POINT IS, make sure to shoot any of the featherweights before deciding on a purchase of one of these models. BTW, my personal choice for a J Frame would be the 24 ounce model 60, it’s heavy enough that it’s tolerable to shoot with the 38 spl. and light enough to carry easily.

The downside to the J frame line is that they are all 5 shot revolvers in a centerfire caliber. This low capacity means that you MUST maintain proficiency so that you can hit well if you need to use it. As for carrying spare ammo in a speedloader, IMO it’s going to be difficult to reload as quickly as may be needed in a defensive shooting. I would advise if you want to carry a J frame revolver that you carry two of them, aint nothing faster than just grabbing a second gun.

Now, for semi automatic pistols. They have some distinct advantages over revolvers in two areas. One is that the slide reciprocating does change the recoil from a single hard hit to a pulse that is spread over a small time span. This can greatly reduce the perceived recoil. The second advantage is the capacity, there are some compact semi autos that carry as many as 12 or 13 rounds.

The downside to the semi autos is that they can jam. Normally this is due to a condition called "limp wristing". Basically, if you don’t hold some semi auto’s firmly enough, the slide won’t fully cycle and you’ll end up with a live round jammed somewhere on the way to the chamber. However it’s been my experience that this concern is way overblown if you purchase a Quality semi automatic.

If you want to look into a semi automatic, I would advise that you find a range with a wide selection of rentals you can take for a test drive. You’ll get first hand experience with the variety of triggers and sizes available. I also suggest that you take your time in making your selection, because making a poor choice can be an expensive lesson. Tip, don’t choose based on size and weight, make your choice based on ease of use and ease of concealment.

BTW, my carry choice was a Sig Sauer P239 in the 40 caliber. It’s neither small or light, however it’s very easy to conceal and I really enjoy shooting it.

Either way i hear all this talk about different kinds of .38 ammo and different .375 ammo and different grain and stuff. now this totally confuses me. Can someone break this stuff down a little bit for me?

The 38 spl. and 357 Magnum share bullet types, diameters, and case dimensions with the exception that the case for the 357 Magnum is longer. Grain is the weight of the bullet and ranges from as light as 110 grain to 200 grain in these calibers. As rule of thumb, the lighter the bullet the higher the velocity. In these calibers there is a velocity threshold below with hollowpoint defensive rounds won't reliably expand. Because of this, generally the premium self defense ammunition will use either 125 or 130 grain bullets. In the 357 Magnum the heavy 180 grain and 200 grain bullets are optimized for hunting medium sized game animals to insure deep penetration. As for the 158 grain loads, these are basically throwbacks to the bullets in use back in the 20's and 30's, great for target shooting but not as well suited for specific uses as the modern specialty loads.

Next is there any semi that shoots the same ammo as a revolver? I doubt it but it would be nice to have lots of ammo that would fit both weapons.

There are some 9mm, 40 S&W, and 45 ACP revolvers on the market. BTW, these are all semi automatic calibers. S&W is not currently offering a 9mm revolver, however the 310 Night Guard will use either 10mm or 40 caliber ammunition. The model 625 is also offered in the 45 ACP caliber. Last year S&W had the model 610 in their catalog and that was a 10mm/40 S&W 6 shooter.

BTW, all these models use Moon Clips, which are re-usable thin stamped steel "stars" that you snap the cartridges into. I just love moon clips because all you have to do for a reload is slide the fired clip out of the cylinder and replace it will a fresh clip. Load up a few boxes of clips and you can really pump ammo downrange because reloading is so quick.

There have also been some semi automatics that use revolver cartridges. However, the long case of the typical revolver cartridge means the handgrip will have to be fairly large to accomidate these long cartridges. At one time Automag offered it's semi in the 357 Magnum and the 44 Magnum. Today Desert Eagle still has a 44 Magnum in their line.

Does ammo ever go bad?

Not for a very very long time if properly stored.

[ajpelz]

Originally Posted by blujax01

ajpelz, I'm curious. What sort of damage am I incurring to my firearms by "over-cleaning" them? I shoot a S&W Highway Patrolman, a Model 36 and an M&P9C as well as a 20year old Colt M1911 on a weekly basis and clean them all thoroughly after each use. Jags, mops, brushes - the whole nine.

What damage would your gun sustain from cleaning less? Besides less wear and tear, I have seen gouged crowns, scuffed barrels, and broken/lost parts such as trigger play springs. If you are an experienced shooter and have OCD, go at cleaning your guns weekly. For new gun owners, being over-zealous with cleaning CAN damage your gun. I have seen a brass rod leave a nasty gouge on the crown of an Model 36.

Take two guns in identical condition. Shoot the average # of rounds a typical gun owner shoots out of that gun over a year. Clean one every week, the other every 500-1000 rounds or annually. Which gun do you think is going to be in better condition after 3 years, 5 years, 10 years, 20 years....?

[Wingmaster]

I would suggest never storeing ammo in a safe with your prized firearms.
I have a buddy that sells safes and he has seen safes that have been through a house fire. If they have ammo in them and it "Cooks Off" The temps inside the safe will make the temps of the house fire look pretty mild.

Wing master

[Fuego]

I agree with luangtom and his police experience. Chances are, you will never need a personal defense gun.
In the unlikely event that you do, an airlight snubby is the most reliable and powerful handgun that you can drop into a front pants pocket holster.
The last time I saw FBI statistics on shootings, it was two rounds fired at two yards in two seconds as the most common scenario. Two rounds of .357 magnum jacketed hollowpoint ammo is an incredible anount of kinetic energy.
I cary a S&W 340PD with Crimson Trace lasergrips. Like a lucky rabbits foot, it has been there, and I have never needed it. I hope I never do need it. But it is in my pocket right now.

[berettamod96]

In my experience ammo will often last longer than you. I am still shooting WWII era 8x57 Mauser ammo that has been properly stored in a dry relatively cool place.

[Bullseye Smith]

First I would go for SAFETY first, does the wife or girl friend know how to shoot a auto? Go with the revolver is is easy and simple way to go, pick it up and pull the trigger. Leave a auto clip loaded very long the spring goes bad, to may more things that can go wrong with the auto. More people are killed with a un-loaded firearm - 99% of the time its with a auto that has a round in the chamber.

[blujax01]

Originally Posted by ajpelz

What damage would your gun sustain from cleaning less? Besides less wear and tear, I have seen gouged crowns, scuffed barrels, and broken/lost parts such as trigger play springs. If you are an experienced shooter and have OCD, go at cleaning your guns weekly. For new gun owners, being over-zealous with cleaning CAN damage your gun. I have seen a brass rod leave a nasty gouge on the crown of an Model 36.

Take two guns in identical condition. Shoot the average # of rounds a typical gun owner shoots out of that gun over a year. Clean one every week, the other every 500-1000 rounds or annually. Which gun do you think is going to be in better condition after 3 years, 5 years, 10 years, 20 years....?

Clarification understood. Cleaning incorrectly more often causes more damage than cleaning incorrectly less often...