Hi All, I'm new to revolvers and Smith and Wessons. I recently picked up a new S&W 642 and was looking for a good defense round for concealed carry. I picked up some Buffalo Bore 125gr +P's. I've been doing some reading on the internet and have seen some folks warn about using +P or at least firing an abundance of +p's out of the ultralight. Is this something I should be worried about? Looking at the specs on the Buffalo Bore they seem like some pretty heavy hitters. I don't plan on firing alot of the BB's specifically but plan to fire the gun quite a bit, as it will be a carry piece and think at least firing a good amount of +p's would be beneficial so I'm comfortable with them.

Any thoughts? is there a better self defense ammo I should look at?

Shawn

It's very good, well into expansion velocities out of the 642. Penetration is good also.

The Gold Dot bullet is proven if it has enough velocity, and the BB powder moves it along quite nicely.

try the BB 158+P LSWCHP's. These do a chrony'd 1000fps out of the 642/442. They are downright nasty, but better keep two hands on that j-frame. I'm getting a set of Crimson Trace grips to help reduce/tame recoil and to help with accuracy.

This site is frickin great!!! I was wondering myself what to load in my 642 after I buy it.

I use BB 158+p in my 442 -- it's a handfull but since I just use it for carry and very little practice it has held up well -- just don't over do it and it should be fine

I use Buffalo Bore 158gr LSWC Std. Pressure. This shoots well in my 642. With my sore and damaged hand this has as much pop to it as I can handle.(arthritis in my thumb joint along with carpol tunnel syndrome)

I use the BB 158 grain swchp gas checked rounds in my j-frames. The recoil is what I would call stout, but certainly not punishing.

Unless you are rich, I don't think you can afford enough of the BB ammo to hurt your revolver.

I did a little write-up on some sight-in work I did on the 158 grain load a while back. Now that the weather is cooling off some, and if I can save enough to order some more ammo, I am going to do some more shooting with the BB loads, including trying them in my daughter's 442.
Buffalo Bore Heavy .38 Special Sight In

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Georgia On My Mind

Wow! I never expected that many responses that quick. This site ROCKS! Thanks for the feedback. Sounds like this will be a great defense round with no worries. I might pick up some of the 158 grain at some point to try it out.
I definately won't firing a large amount of the Buffalo Bore at over a $1/round.
Redlevel, thanks for the link. Some great info!

Thanks for the help everybody.

For the record, a week ago I chrono'd some Buffalo Bore 150 grain hard cast wadcutter (non +P) out of my Ruger LCR and they averaged 901 fps for ten rounds.

Low: 886 fps
Hi: 915 fps
ES: 29 fps

Good load for a snubbie.

Rich

Hey Guy's,

Old thread,, I know,, but this one came up in search for info on the BB 125 gr 38spl +p.

Seems like the responders just jumped straight over the bb 125 to the 158gr though,, but i'm leaning more to the 125gr bb +p or the Speer 135gr +p short barrel. Maybe I'm missing something though.

Seem's like this round is about 1050 fps/300 ftlbs at the muzzle,, out of a short barrel.

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php...t_detail&p=109

The Speer Gold dot short barrel 38spl +p 135gr seems to be about 860fps/222 ftlbs at the muzzle.

Any information on how these 2 rounds stack up against each other would be appreciated,, as a defensive ccw round in a 642.

Thanks,
Joe

Some 642s aren't rated for Plus P. The ones that are usually say so on the barrel. The J-Magnum Frame is another indication, the cylinder cutout is enough longer (about 1/10th inch) to accommodate the .357 Cartridge but the .38 Special & Plus P guns use the same frame with shorter cylinders. The 642-1 introduced the Magnum Frame, according to SCS&W.

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Bob

My preference is Buffalo Bore non-+p 158 grain LSWCHP "Chicago loads".

I've found the Buffalo Bore ammo to hot for fast, accurate shooting. A well placed shot with a less powerful round is much better than a miss with the latest, greatest super ammo. If you can shoot the Buffalo Bore fast and accurate, then go for it. It's not going to hurt your 642.

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Centennial Every Day

I'm bobbling between their 158gr. SWCLHP, either in +P or not, and their 150gr. hard-cast wadcutter, in my 49 Bodyguard. Sticker shock for either round is what keeps me from committing to either right now.

I'm glad I stumbled on this thread. I had actually called S&W to ask if I could shoot the 158gr +P in my new 442. The rep advised me against it due to the higher pressure but apparently if I just use them for carry I will be good. Thanks again for the great info on this site


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I'm really fond of that 150 grain wadcutter, especially for the first cylinder full. Not a thing wrong with the 158 grain SWCHP either. I carry the 158 grainers for a spare reload since those bullets are a bit easier to get in the charge holes as opposed to the full wads (especially in a hurry!). Shot a tough old jackrabbit with the full wad and it sounded like a softball hitting a sheet iron building, and it made a fearful fatal wound! Lots of us carried regular target wads in our backup snubs back in the day. They are also pretty effective if loaded to around 750/800 fps.

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So long ... Ken

so the 125 grn +P rounds would be fine then? If S&W said no go on the 158 +P's then? I am one of those guys that if the barrel says "rated for +P on it I am shooting that out of it. Not all of the time of course but I will...

Practice instinctive shooting and trigger control with your J-frame. That practice (skill) will be of most benefit if you are forced to use the gun to defend yourself or your family.

Your choice, of course, but the terminal ballistic gains from "+P" loads out of a short barrel are miniscule, and use of the higher pressure ammunition will only accelerate the wear and tear on the revolver.

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Ret. LE, FA Instr, S&W Armorer

Wow, you guys shooting +P out of your 442/642 are a lot tougher than me. I load 158 gr LSWC with 3.0 gr of Bullseye for a pleasant but accurate load. I find with the higher power rounds I can't hit squat after the second or so shot. With the lower power I can keep to minute-of-paper plate at 15 yards.

These aren't +P but they didn't do too hot.

Buffalo Bore .38 Special 158 gr Semiwadcutter Ammo Test - YouTube
This is the +P version though. Terrible and pointless video to show it though IMO

Buffalo Bore .38 spl 158 gr LSWCHP +P gel test video - YouTube

The standard pressure Buffalo Bore ammo might work better and shouldn't damage your 642 or your hand. I like the 150gr hard cast full wadcutters.

I shot some of the 158+P in my 642 and they were too hot for me to get good follow up shots, also fired some of the 150 wadcutters and i liked them better.

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Chewy

My Buffalo Bore .38 Special FAV is their 158 grain LSWCHP-GC +P. I believe their number is 20A. I use this primarily in a M60-7 as a CCW.

My second FAV for the M60-7 is the SPEER 135 grain GDHP +P. While it does not have nearly the foot pounds of energy the BB does, it has proven itself a reliable expanding round that works. It is also much easier to shoot in a J Frame as the recoil is quite a bit less than the BB "HEAVY".

You would be well served with either one and I would seriously consider trying both out in what you carry for SD, HD, CCW.

FWIW, the standard pressure BB 158g load has exactly the same velocity out of my 2" J frames as the Remington 158g +P load with the same bullet style.

Never found a reason for anything hotter than Speer 135gn SB +P in my 642.

I'm not real particular in regards to ammo brands as long as it is a known quality manufacture. I use 125 grain +p jacketed HP's in my 342 and 642. S&W reccommends +p jacketed ammo be used in the 342 and states so on the barrel. My 642 is +p rated and states on the barrel. Being able to place controlled rounds on target center mass under stress is what is the most important single issue in a self defense situation IMHO.

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Keep in mind the gun. What kicks too much in an Airweight S&W and would abuse the gun if shot much may be what's needed in a three-inch Ruger SP-101 or even a three-inch full-lug barrel M-60. Or a K-frame .38...


Why have those hot BB loads with deep penetrating bullets? Apart from felons, if you have only a small .38 with you and have to shoot a large, dangerous animal, that's what's wanted.


I can see some casual hiker or backpacker thinking that he won't really need a gun, so he takes just a snub .38 and that's the day he meets a bear or a renegade Rottweiler.

The choices in .38 ammo are great. I tend to like the LSWC 158 grain bullets as they are described as being very effective, and will soon test the +P version versus the "regular" version, since I have a box of each. I want to avoid excessive recoil in my Airweight.

BB ammo in "regular" or low pressure loads are reported to be effective. I like, too, that they put the speeds and power ratings of their ammo on the web and on the box.

That said, it is very hard to beat the Speer Gold Dot 135 grain short barrel ammo. Even out of a short barrel, it is reportedly fast enough to let the bullet function as intended. I think it is a bit easier to load in a hurry than a LSWC bullet, as the bullet shape and composition feeds more easily into the charge hole of the cylinder.

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S&W Rover

Well after much debating I bought the BB +P but think I will stick with the 135gr gold dot short barrel for now. I carry the 9mm gold dot on duty and trust my life to it everyday so it's the natural choice LOL




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Double tap. Sorry





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My go to loads for 38 Special for defense are Winchester FBI load (158 grain +P LHP), Speer Gold Dot short barrel NYPD load, and the Buffalo Bore Outdoorsman if you really want a heavy hitter in a solid. The Buffalo Bore load is fun to shoot in the 442/642 models (158 grain Keith at about 1,150 fps). You don't have to go around front to figure out that it just went off!

shawn,

Years ago the Winchester FBI load was one of the best, but todays version that I Chrono tested about 5 years ago was quite watered down. Without heading down stairs this second, I recall that the MV out of my M60-7 2" Chief's Special was in the 735 fps range. I tested several cylinders full from a few different boxes and then decided to send them back to Winchester as they were way less than advertised and stated in their catalog. They sent me a letter of apology and a refund.

If I might suggest, Chronograpgh them before simply relying on the spec's printed in their catalog or on the box.

BTW Remington's new version of the FBI loading was watered down as well!!! The Buffalo Bore NON +P is the WAY TO GO if you do not want a +P velocity FBI load. Theirs was in the 840 fps range out of the M60-7 which is about what the Remington and Winchester SHOULD be.

If you do not own a Chronograph maybe you can find someone who does. I believe we should verify the loads we carry up against what the Company's who produce them state they will do. Unless Winchester has gone back to the original recipe, or unless the 5 boxes I had were an anomaly, I'd think seriously about finding a new carry load. Like Reagan said, "Trust - BUT verify"!