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  #1  
Old 02-08-2011, 01:55 AM
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Default S&W The Governor (.410 Slug) or .44 Mag in Bear country?

The Governor, 6-shot Revolver, 29.6oz (lighter), 8-1/2" Length (shorter), $679 MSRP (cheaper), fires .410 Shotgun, .45 Colt, .45 ACP

The S&W 629, 6-shot Revolver, 45oz, 11-5/8" Length, more $$$, fires .44 Mag, .44 Spl

Federal Ammo
.44 Mag = Federal Ammo Castcore 300gr., 1160fps muzzle, 896-ft-lbs


.410 Slug = Federal Ammo 109gr., 1775fps muzzle, 762-ft-lbs

Looks like a close draw?
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  #2  
Old 02-08-2011, 02:12 AM
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Not really.

The .44 slug has three times the mass with a higher energy level.

.44 is bigger too.

Keep the .410, I'll go with the .44.
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Old 02-08-2011, 02:32 AM
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I'd go with the .44.......

Honestly, I wouldn't even have the Governor, or Judge, on my long list of choices and I have experience dealing with animals, much smaller than a Bear, using a Judge chambered for the 3" shells.
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Old 02-08-2011, 06:43 AM
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Are your stated slug velocities from a revolver? They appear to be from a 28" shotgun barrel. I would not trust a .410 slug to penetrate enough hair, hide, and tissue to stop a bear.

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Old 02-08-2011, 06:58 AM
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Sorry but I think the bear may fall on you and kill you while he is laughing so hard at having a .410 anything pointed at him. Iím not sure if shooting one in the eye with a .410 anything would kill a bear. Given your two options I would go with the 629 with some of Garrett's 629 safe loads. Given different options I would go with a Ruger Redhawk 4 inch in .45 Colt with one of the 300 grain loadings.
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Old 02-08-2011, 06:58 AM
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.44 mag..... lol
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Old 02-08-2011, 07:01 AM
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The Governor/Judge handguns may be a pretty good (don't know for sure) urban home defense tool, but for the great outdoors, get a real revolver. My opinion, others may vary. Jack
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Old 02-08-2011, 07:26 AM
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If the 4-leggers are that thick..... I'd carry a big bore carbine. I'll accept the inconvience of the long gun if involves the value of my pelt. A sidearm is best used to fight your way to a long gun anyway.
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Old 02-08-2011, 07:36 AM
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Its really a no-brainer...the .44
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Old 02-08-2011, 08:17 AM
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Are you serious? Who in their right mind would even use a .410 shotgun for bear protection much less a handgun? The .410 handgun is not even adequate for protection against two legged varmints, I cringe every time I see a dealer pushing them to non gun people who would be much better served by a good .38 special. The Judge and .380 craze are a disservice foisted off on novice gun buyers in a quest for the almighty dollar. Sad day for S&W to be jumping on this bandwagon, the public would be much better served if they would go in the direction of the Ruger LCR and come out with a good really small 9mm. And why are they still putting lock in their revolvers?
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Old 02-08-2011, 08:23 AM
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Go with the 44 Mag for two reasons. More energy and stopping power and NO STINKING LOCK.
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Old 02-08-2011, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geronimo Jim View Post
Go with the 44 Mag for two reasons. More energy and stopping power and NO STINKING LOCK.
Nothing wrong with the lock....especially if you never use it. I sure never intend to...
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Old 02-08-2011, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mack View Post
Are you serious? Who in their right mind would even use a .410 shotgun for bear protection much less a handgun? The .410 handgun is not even adequate for protection against two legged varmints, I cringe every time I see a dealer pushing them to non gun people who would be much better served by a good .38 special. The Judge and .380 craze are a disservice foisted off on novice gun buyers in a quest for the almighty dollar. Sad day for S&W to be jumping on this bandwagon, the public would be much better served if they would go in the direction of the Ruger LCR and come out with a good really small 9mm. And why are they still putting lock in their revolvers?
Toss into that pool are the novice's that think they will be better protected with a weapon that holds say 16-20 rounds as compared to say 6-7.
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Old 02-08-2011, 09:03 AM
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A .410 slug?? Whats the grain/weight of the slug and the FPS/energy were talking about with the 410 slug??

Not too long ago there was a bear killed by someone that was in the guys shed. He shot it with one shot with a .410 shotgun and dropped it on the spot.

Its also a fact that most don't realize that the 357mag, the 41mag and the 44mag has killed every game in north america thanks to Elmer Keith and the others at the birth of handgun hunting.

I wouldn't be afraid to go into the wilds with any 357mag, 41mag or 44mag. But at the sametime don't under estimate the power of the shotguns using the slugs too. The 12ga slug is over 400gr's in weight. I'm not sure about the 410 slug but at 1800fps and the weight of a 9mm bullet(100grs) isn't too bad. Speed could be a factor with it. One more thought ever think about bird hunting with a 410 revolver (close shots?) It would be great for snakes too. Bill

BTW; I just don't understand it when someone wants to hunt with a 1911 in 45acp with its 450ft lbs @ the muzzle that scares me. Its the accuracy and power at lets say 50yds that worries me. Plus the animal deserves a quick clean kill to not to make it suffer thats what i'm talking about. People get all wrapped up in one caliber when there are many more better ones out there.

Plus when hunters do stupid things without thinking. On one hunting trip we had a group of us go out and look for a wounded bear. The butt-head shot it in the @ss of course it ran off. We never found it. A year later we shot a bear in the same area and while butchering it i found a perfect 30cal bullet in the hind quarter. The 3 shots we made were accounted for when i found a 4th shot that was all healed over. Its a matter of do we shoot or not. If its not a quick clean kill let it go. this bear did lead these guys over two mountains and one valley to my camp in the pouring rain. All i'm trying to say is besafe in a situation were we can back off do it.

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Old 02-08-2011, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBill View Post
A .410 slug?? Whats the grain/weight of the slug and the FPS/energy were talking about with the 410 slug??

Not too long ago there was a bear killed by someone that was in the guys shed. He shot it with one shot with a .410 shotgun and dropped it on the spot.

But at the same time don't under estimate the power of the shotguns using the slugs too. The 12ga slug is over 400gr's in weight. I'm not sure about the 410 slug yet. One more thought ever think about bird hunting with a 410 revolver (close shots?) It would be great for snakes too. Bill
A 410 shotgun and a 410 pistol are not the same animal. A 410 shotgun can shoot the same valocity as a 12 ga., all things equal. I have seen deer killed with a 410 shotgun, no problem. My nephew killed a 150 lb pig with a short barreled Cobra derringer 410 pistol. One shot with a slug, up close. lol If you have ever shot a 410 Contender with a short light barrel you know it will put the hurt on your hand. If these new 410 pstols are easy on the hand I wouldn't mind having one for play, snakes and such.

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  #16  
Old 02-08-2011, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sully View Post
Toss into that pool are the novice's that think they will be better protected with a weapon that holds say 16-20 rounds as compared to say 6-7.
But these guys better hope that they don't get caught with a larger capacity mag in the gun wether its self protection or hunting some states don't allow more than 5 to 6 shots. They will inforce too by taking your car/truck or even your house in some states. Some states are really serious about how many rounds are in our guns. We also need to check the state and local laws too. Bill
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Old 02-08-2011, 09:27 AM
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Federal Ammo
.44 Mag = Federal Ammo Castcore 300gr., 1160fps muzzle, 896-ft-lbs
6 inch barrel

.410 Slug = Federal Ammo 109gr., 1775fps muzzle, 762-ft-lbs
28 inch shotgun barrel

Since the .410 pistol barrel is only 2 3/4", the data above are insanely biased to the fictitious vel of the .410.

Realistically, the 2 3/4 inch barel .410 pistol only yields about 200ft # of energy in the 109gr slug.
Comparable to shooting the bear with a .32 pistol.
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Old 02-08-2011, 09:59 AM
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There was a thread on here a couple of years ago addressing that chimp in California that attacked a woman and literally ripped her face off. I guess law enforcement shot this 200 lb chimp 7 or 9 times with their 9mm's and then it walked back to its cage and bled to death. I am a huge fan of revolvers and I would use one if my life depended on it, but I carry a 10 shot .44 magnum lever action rifle behind the seat of my truck. Look at the old LEO's that carried big handguns, all of them that wrote about it preferred to carry a rifle into a gunfight. Never read of any of them recommending a .410 shotgun..............

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Old 02-08-2011, 10:08 AM
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Aren't .410 slugs the 'soft, squishy' foster-type slugs? They will not penetrate much bone/muscle. I once had a foster slug from a 20 gauge flatten on a shoulder of a youg doe without penetrating into the body cavity. Folks and agencies who recommend 12 gauge slugs for big bears also recommend the use of hard-cast slugs from makers like Brenneke. Saboted slugs in larger gauges work great on deer and such (certainly better that Fosters), but they are usually too lightly constructed for the big stuff. I would say a .410 slug might suffice for a coyote (maybe).
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Old 02-08-2011, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mack View Post
Are you serious? Who in their right mind would even use a .410 shotgun for bear protection much less a handgun? The .410 handgun is not even adequate for protection against two legged varmints, I cringe every time I see a dealer pushing them to non gun people who would be much better served by a good .38 special. The Judge and .380 craze are a disservice foisted off on novice gun buyers in a quest for the almighty dollar. Sad day for S&W to be jumping on this bandwagon, the public would be much better served if they would go in the direction of the Ruger LCR and come out with a good really small 9mm. And why are they still putting lock in their revolvers?
A resounding +1...well said, sir.
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Old 02-08-2011, 10:30 AM
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Default 410 banned for deer

I think the 410 is banned for deer hunting in many places certainly would not like to take on a bear with a soft lead slug that would flatten out on his hide
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Old 02-08-2011, 10:34 AM
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If you're going to hunt bear, I'd go with the .44 but if you're just carrying it for protection from the bear you'd be better served with a good can of pepper spray. I know I would have a hard time hitting a charging bear with my .44 mag and drop it dead before it got to me. OTOH, I'm pretty sure I can get a dose of that pepper spray in it's face (and most likely mine too) before I become lunch. Just my thoughts. Most likely, if I'm in bear country, I'm carrying both.
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Old 02-08-2011, 10:50 AM
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If i remember correctly the guy heard some russling in his shed and went outside with the 410 shot gun. I believe the bear was right infront of him when he shot it in the eye into the brain. Quick thinking on his part. Your right it wasn't the smartest thing to do was to go outside with the 410 but i think he didn't expect it to be a bear. But if we think about we react sometimes without thinking about it and we just grab what ever is on hand and go out to see what it is.

I now have bears in the back part of my land in the water shed area. I found out one night by the 5 cats i have to control the rodent population. While letting them in one night there heads were turning amost 360 degrees looking in every direction while there ears where turning too. They were all hunched low to the ground while they came towards the door to come in. This told me something was wrong outside and i never seen then act like this before. The next day my neighbor came over and asked me if i seen the bear that was in her yard lastnight. I found bear scat near my corn field plus bear tracks. A few weeks later i hit some more scat with my mower in the field. I live in a country rural area, with horse farms, with many acres of water shed area too besides the forests. My point is we can read the body english of our pets, there not stupid. They can't talk but they can tell us in there own way that something is wrong. Just don't go running out there in the dark with a 410. We just never know whats out there. I do go out there with my 44. Its been reported that we also have a mountainlion in the water shed area too andi have seen a lynx not too long ago too. Besafe,becareful, godbless, Bill

I fish at night and find abandoned kittens all the time and i bring them home and take care of them. But thats another story.
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Old 02-08-2011, 11:06 AM
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If you're going to hunt bear, I'd go with the .44 but if you're just carrying it for protection from the bear you'd be better served with a good can of pepper spray. I know I would have a hard time hitting a charging bear with my .44 mag and drop it dead before it got to me. OTOH, I'm pretty sure I can get a dose of that pepper spray in it's face (and most likely mine too) before I become lunch. Just my thoughts. Most likely, if I'm in bear country, I'm carrying both.
I've hunted bears for most of my hunting life. The only time a bear will charge us if it has cubs, its wounded or its cornered. Otherwise were safe sometimes but use caution always. I heard about a hunter who walked up on a bear den, right in front of it and stopped to look in it. When the bear charged out and ran him over and kept on going he went back to camp and changed his shorts, thats the truth.(local) When i'm on my land in VT in the heart of the best blackbear hunting in the state i always have my 357 snubbie with me. If we go on a hike with the kids i bring my 357 or my 44 with me. I don't want to alarm the kids or make them scared too. I do educate them about the dangers in the woods too and about what to do and what to avoid doing when encountered. My teaching them did pay off. Here in CT at my daughters condo while walking the dog there was a falling tree with a mountainlion spotted on the other side of the fallen tree busy eating something to stop and see them. My wife and daughter backed up and left the area. My son told all the others who live in the condo's about the mountainlion sighting and no one believed him. He even took them up there and actually showed them the tracks in the snow and they still didn't believe him. One morning the montainlion at 7am walked right thru the center of the condo area and they believed it then. Silly? I taught the kids to look, smell and listen and to be very alert when there in the woods it just may save there life someday.(bears smell really bad/fresh kills smell too) Educate your kids too. Bill
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Old 02-08-2011, 11:49 AM
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I read an article in I think Field and Stream many years ago about a man that killed a charging grizzly with a 22 auto. The story was him and his young son were walking a trail and when they rounded a corner, there was a grizzly standing there. The man sent his son packing down the trail as the bear turned and charged. The guy shot the grizzly 8 times in the head with his 22 and it died at his feet.

Just like the story with the 410 killing the bear from BigBill. I think both these individuals were extremely lucky with the shot placement. After all, shot placement is key for a kill shot regardless of how big the caliber.

That being said, I do not believe any of the 410 handguns out there are suitable for anything more than maybe snakes and small varmints. If you are conciously going in to bear country, do yourself a favor and carry a big bore shorter barrel revolver. I think the 500 is a little over the top unless you are hunting with a long barrel version, but a 454, 44 mag, or 45 colt with the right HEAVY loads in a 4 inch or less barrel is good. After all, you will not feel the recoil if you actually have to use it, and the adrenaline will slow the world down and make the whole incident feel like slow motion.

My last thought, that whatever you are going to carry, PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE!!! And Practice as real as you can! If you have a range with auto target retrievers or hand crank, and it is safe to do so, have someone staret the target back toward you and draw and fire your weapon to see if you can hit the target as it is coming toward you!

.44 over the .410 ALL DAY EVERYDAY!
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Old 02-08-2011, 12:19 PM
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I believe a handgun is for when your rifle runs outta ammo, that aside i'd take the 44 any day of the week that ends in y
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Old 02-08-2011, 01:13 PM
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You'll have an opportunity to examine that .410 slug - it will be in the first 3 inches of bear fat and you can dig it out with your fingers while he is preoccupied eating your leg.
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Old 02-08-2011, 01:28 PM
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Many years ago, I saw a guy kill a black bear with a 22 Colt Huntsman pistol. He was in a very bad situation and had no choice but to shoot and had no other weapon. He shot the bear three times the last shot being point blank in the head as the bear was coming at him from above on a steep hillside. The bear still ran over him as it tumbled down the mountain and then ran a ways before dying. I guess you use what you have available. I think that guy is really lucky to still be here today, and I know he carries a .44 magnum rifle when he goes out in the woods most times now.

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Old 02-08-2011, 01:51 PM
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The .410 revolver is a supremely idiotic choice for use as a bear stopper.
Period.
Denis
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Old 02-08-2011, 02:07 PM
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Iím going to sound overly rude without meaning to be, BUTÖ

What is the deal with Smith makes a .410 revolver and suddenly people think it isnít such a bad idea??? Bear protection??? Maybe at thumb wrestling distance. I swear itís like I can hear people saying that if Smith makes it then maybe it wasnít such a bad idea after all. And the worst thing is that I can just see this as a selling point to Taurus. S&W have legitimized this thing but at a terrible price point. People are going to go look at the Governor and buy the Judge. I foresee this after a year to be a huge debacle. Seriously, a 629 vs. a Governor??? FOR BEAR PROTECTION???
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Old 02-08-2011, 05:23 PM
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No matter what caliber is used its all about the shot placement. I took my neighbor with his 45/70 bear hunting once. I didn't know him that well but he told me he could put 4 shots of the 45/70 in the bear anywhere and stop it. I told my brother who was hunting with us if he needed backup after making such a foolish shot i'm going to wait while the bear is charging till he pisses his pants then i'll help him out. I never took him again. We have to make that first shot count or let it go if we have that choice. I know when were surprised we don't have much of a choice.

I hunt bear with my '94 remington 700 in 338win mag. it kills them dead on the spot. I've seen it pick them up and slam them down. The bears don't like it but i also look out for my sons when there hunting too. I'm there backup. God is always watching out for them. Bill

BTW; When it comes to bear hunting we have let may smaller bears go by for many years now. One year we let a mother and cub go by and we backed off from following it. We figured if we kill the mother we have to take out the cub too and we won't do that. This ruins the bear population. After we let that mother/cub go the following year we got a bear and harvested it. So being good hearted does pay off. For a few years we have tracked even bigger bears with paws the size of my 13" sorel boots. We just don't seem to be at the right place at the right time yet for a shot. Which i think is the best time of the hunt. I enjoy just being out there in the wilds. If it happens it happens if it doesn't there's always next season. We have a great time with my neighbors at my camp and family hunting and sharing food and good times too.
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Old 02-11-2011, 05:50 AM
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If your going to shoot a .410 bore then go with a .41 Mag/.41 GNR or .41 GNR2. I carry a Smith 58 in the bear woods.

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Old 02-11-2011, 07:05 AM
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Depends on the bear, Black bear go with the 44 magnum, for Grizzly use a large caliber rifle or 12g slug gun.
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Old 02-11-2011, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jst1mr View Post
You'll have an opportunity to examine that .410 slug - it will be in the first 3 inches of bear fat and you can dig it out with your fingers while he is preoccupied eating your leg.
You're being too nice. If you have noticed, when an animal approaches another animal or prey, they always use their nose and approach from the posterior. This is where the easiest access to whatever they are after is, whether it be for breeding or food. A predator grabs prey by the genitals and rips exposing soft tissue first, kidneys, liver and other entrails high in nourishment. If something is chewing on your leg the predator is either still hungry or it's a scavanger eating what's left. Use enough RIFLE to stop a bear attack or a serious handgun minimum of a heavy bullet load .357 magnum or larger and keep fighting until the fight is over for whatever reason. Pepper (spray) is a seasoning and Governor's and Judge's are elected politians that can't always be trusted!
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