Got my cs1 up for sale here and on our local forum, A former Customs special agent commented on it and some one asked for more info so he posted this in my for sale ad what do you guys think?

"The CS-1 was the idiotic brain child of Mark Humphreville, who Customs hired on to the National Firearms & Training unit. The guy had been a researcher at Aberdeen Proviging grounds, and somehow got in with Customs.

He had never been in law enforcement, or the miltary. He reads some gun magazines and makes the statement that the only reliable "one shot stopping" bullet was the .357 Magnum. So he makes the call that all Special Agents and Inspectors were to be issued a .357 Magnum revolver that could have a service life of 10,000 rounds of full power rounds.

He contacts S&W and they say their 686 will fill the bill. They give him the specs on the 686, and because he is a precision rifle competative shooter, he elects to have S&W build the revovlers with closer tolerences.

He doesn't take into comsideration that at the time, very few Agents or Inspectors fired the full house .357 round. Most everyone who carried a revolver, used the .38 +P+ Treasury round. So with the closer tolerences of the CS-1 design, the unburned powder from the .38 round would rapidly start building up under the extractor star.

At the time, the U.S. Customs qualification course was a 60 round course. When the CS-1 came into the field, we immediately started to have malfunctions with the revolvers. After as little as 30 rounds, the unburned powder build up under the extractor star would not allow the cylnder to rotate, effectively rendering the gun inoperable. You had to stop, and take a brush to remove the unburned powder from under the extractor star. Obviously this is a real problem for a weapon people have to rely their lives on!

And not to mention that the CS-1 is a HUGE revolver, and made it very difficult for Special Agents to carry the weapon concealed.

At the time, the Customs Service firearms policy allowed Agents and Inspectors to purchase privatley owned handguns for duty use. Most Agents (me included) never carried a CS-1 because it was just too unreliable and big. Thats why most of the CS-1's have not been shot very much, and some are even unfired.

The CS-1 lasted less than two years in the field before it was recalled. Customs replaced the CS-1 with a S&W 6906 9mm semi auto pistol.

Some were converted to Simunition guns for training, but a large amount were sold at exchange sales to buy other weapons for Customs. Of course when President Clinton came into office, his adminstration was appaled that the government was selling guns to fully licensed and leagal distributors who were in turn, selling the guns to fully licensed dealers, who also in turn, sold them to the law abiding public! Attorney General Janet Reno then ordered all government agencies to stop the practice of exchange sales.

I know Lew Horton sold quite a few of the 3" and 4" CS-1's before the exchange sales were stopped. There were many of the CS-1's given to foreign governments as part of aid packages. I am quite sure at some point, a lot of those revolvers were destroyed.

So there you have a little inside history of the CS-1. Yours is the first 4" I have seen for sale in quite a while. After I got my 3" many years ago, I took it to a gunsmith friend of mine who went in a took care of some of the tight tolerence issues. Mine now serves as on of my "house" guns."
_______________

My 3"er never had any jamming issues - don't know if someone before me tuned it or not, but it is a great shooter.

__________________
My sgntr is mor thn 30 chrctrs

One persons fairly interesting take on the CS-1s inception but I don't with posting it in your ad at all.

Seems as I read that Customs had M65s w/3-inch barrela and bobbed hammers too. I wonder if this was prior to the CS-1s?

I've shot almost 1000 rounds of 38+P through two different 3" CS1's. I've yet to have a problem.

I wonder what kind of old, archaic powder they were using, to be left with enough unburnt to bind under the ejector star in as little as 30 rounds? Regards 18DAI

I shoot 100 to 150 rnds in a range session and have never had a problem in my 3"

I've owned two and never had a problem with either, out of probably 500 rounds fired, .38, .38+p and .357. I do agree that they're a big revolver and would be more difficult to conceal than a K or J frame (or most service semi-autos) but the .357 did have an excellent reputation for stopping power in the 1980's. I think I would've preferred if they'd used the 681 as the basis for the CS-1...I don't think there's much need for adjustable sights on a 3" or 4" revolver intended for service use.

How does unburned powder accumulate under the extractor star? In my experience, residue and fouling usually accumulates on the front of the cylinder and on the underside of the top of the frame where the barrel to cylinder gap is.

Some thing seems off here.

__________________
"I'm just a dog chasing cars."

I had it happen once with my 6" 686--it can occur when you eject the empties. In my case I had excess lubricant under the extractor star which allowed the powder particles to stick to the underside of the star and accumulate there. It did not take much build-up to cause the problem, and it did indeed lock the revolver up super tight--preventing firing and making it quite hard even to unlock the cylinder. I didn't think the CS-1 was especially prone to the problem, though.

What's off is poor reloading practice. Most likely the agents were trained to always keep their barrels pointed downrange when reloading. While that might work well with a rifle it's not good technique when reloading a revolver. When you eject the empties from a revolver it's best to point the barrel straight up so that the fired casings carry any powder residue or debris out of the cylinder inside the casings.

Since the proponent of the CS-1 was proported to be a rifle shooter, it may be safe to assume that he is the person responsible for requiring that the guns be pointed downrange when the empty casings were ejected. If so, the same person responsible for creating the CS-1 was also the same person responsible for it's failure. However, this is just speculation based on an unconfirmed posting by one individual.

My 3" has been flawless with factory as well as reloaded ammo, and a 3" L can be easily concealed and carried.

__________________
Sie vis pacem parabellum

I have a 4" CS-1 and while I have a safe full of fine revolvers, the CS-1 is one of the finest revolvers I have ever fired. It appears that lack of proper training is responsible for the powder build up under the extractor.

I have shot as many as two hundred rounds in an afternoon without issue.

I would go as far as to say this is purely conjecture. I would trust my life to my CS-1 ANY TIME! Oh wait, I have...

Dale53

I have no idea if the story is true but this is the first time I have heard of S&W making revolvers with headspace tighter than normal production for a law enforcement agency. While members posting most anything they believe is true is a good way to stir up enjoyable discussion and learn from each other, it was against forum rules and at least impolite to post a story in someone else's ad. Also, posting a story that essentially says the gun being advertised is no good raises suspicion that the poster was economically motivated. Considering the context of the posting and the lack of references, not only will I not retell the story, I will soon forget it.

On the other hand, those of you who are contrasting your favorable experiences with CS-1s against the story should remember that S&W continued production of CS-1s for the civilian market after Customs quit buying CS-1s and that a majority of CS-1s were not sold to Customs. Also, I have had unburnt powder under an extractor cause irregular heavy glitches in DA pull but not enough to throw the shot off. In the worst case I think one could still thumb cock.

Best Regards,
Gil

I had bought a CS-1 with a 4" barrel when they were thrown on the market around the mid 1990s fpr $279, if I remember correctly. The gun worked reliable but had the infamous floating hand, I never got around to changing it to a normal hand, I accepted a good offer and do not regret selling it from a shooter's perspective.

I carried mine on duty from 1988 until 1993 or 1994.

If your CS1 has an "M" or "2M" stamped on the lower frame by the model number it was sent back to S&W for factory modification to eliminate the binding issue.