Hmmm. I see validity in both sides of this. Out of warranty? Out of luck. Out of warranty but told that it would be, "taken care of"? I would want to know the exact definition of, "taken care of".

Unfired weapon that was admittedly defective from the manufacturer? Now I am thinking they might want to just eat the cost to fix the pistol.
Heck, the OP owns how many firearms from S&W? It is just good business sense to eat a 20 dollar repair instead of losing someone as a customer who has spent thousands of dollars on products. It is just good business. Having said that, it would be foolish for S&W to just go fixing/repairing/replacing firearms willy-nilly. Surely that is poor business practice. So S&W should look at these occasional scenario's on a case-by-case basis.

In this case, I would just eat the cost if I were S&W.


Just my shiny two pennies on the subject.

i don't think it is reasonable to expect any company to warranty a product manufactured in 1981 in the year 2011, unfired or not.

Expecting S&W to repair an out-of-warranty gun for free is not right.

S&W not standing behind what their customer service rep promised is not right either.

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Centennial Every Day

Agreed on both counts, but the cs rep said "we will take care of it", that does not translate to for free. S&W did take care of it... for $83 and free shipping!

Add ... and purchased second-hand ...

I can see where if the original purchaser has a warranty that states the gun has a lifetime warranty and proof that they are indeed the original purchaser, S&W should fix it. What I don't get and never will are the folks who buy guns sight unseen from who-knows-where, finds an issue (Like grips. Really - grips?!) calls Smith and Wesson and asks for (demands?) a free fix to make the gun like new and is "disappointed" when the request isn't fulfilled.

Someone in their management needs to stop this foolishness. Anyone who purchases anything second-hand should not expect any consideration from the original manufacturer, unless there is a paper trail and a warranty transfer is specifically allowed.

Read the Motley Fool about the current financial situation at S&W. While receivables are up, revenue is down. They are in trouble and practically giving away guns to try to pump up the volume.

OK, I buy a brand new Chevy pickup in 1972, then park it. 39 years later, I put in the battery, fill it up with gas and head down the street. I want some tunes and turn on the radio. Radio is dead!

So I head to the dealer and complain that this is a brand new truck and the radio don't work. I want the radio fixed for free (because it is still under warrantee).

I don't think the dealer will fix it for free. Nope.

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NRA Benefactor Member

This thread is killing me. This is yet another showing of what I feel is wrong with people today. It has already been said that it was bought as a used gun. Maybe it was new in box, but it was bought as a used gun. It comes from a time before the lifetime warrantee was offered. And we already know the lifetime doesn’t apply to material before that statement. They would have to keep parts being made for everything they ever made and that is far and beyond impossible to still do and have a profit. This is unreasonable to me beyond comprehension. S&W as a manufacturer had to decide where to draw the line on what would be affordable to give lifetime coverage on and how much it was going to cost them. That factors right into the cost of a new gun from them. I would almost rather they went back to a two or three year coverage again and dropped the price of a new gun back down some. If you buy a gun and don’t even test it at a range in two to three years then that isn’t my problem. But the willingness of a manufacturer to offer a lifetime warrantee on a product almost baffles me. They know how to calculate a figure of what they think it will cost them to cover that. So all it does is add to the cost of everything they make. So it screws us all in the pricing instead of just the few of us that actually need something done. But no, this is yet another case of someone buys something and then wants to still get something for nothing.

The damage to S&W in terms of Public Relations in just one thread will give the OP is $83.00 worth and more...

BINGO!! Thats it in a nutshell.

If I were in your position, I would be upset too. The company stated that they would fix it free of charge and then went back on their word. I would be disappointed as well. I am sure that if they stated that their would be a charge then this would be a different complaint, if at all.

Bottom line is... The S&W customer service rep screwed up big time by promising and/or implying that the gun would be fixed for free. I say we tar and feather him!

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Centennial Every Day

Tell ya what.. You are unhappy with S&W then sell me the revolver for $200.00 and I will take care of getting it fixed...

Dave

Good comments all. Lessons learned on my part about what I should and shouldn't expect from the manufacturer and the old axiom of buyer be ware is also true.

Like I said, I asked they answered and I paid, I will still buy pre-ILS S&W snubbie's when I see them.

My only comment about the discussion is the tenancy of some responses to get personal; I am a big boy and have been places in my life that would make John Wayne whine without a whimper...just put my head down and soldiered. We should all look in the mirror before we let our emotions force us across the rules of engagement line that moves a conversation from civil to personal.

Thanks again.

The S&W rep said they would take care of it,not fix it for free.Yes it would a have been nice if the service on your thirty year old gun would have been free.The shipping was.I think your lucky they had NOS to fix your gun and you can be sure it was fixed by a proper gunsmith.Chalk it up to a learning experience when buying a used or like new used gun.Welcome to the forum and enjoy your FIXED Smith.

Not sure what to say here, I reread my responses... should have seen the ones I deleted.. I am passionate about my beliefs as I am sure we all are here. With this topic being related to S&W, I believe and trust in them or would not purchase their products, and when someone unfairly takes a swipe at them, I tend to respond "in like fashion".. I try not to be personal and hope my responses are taken accordingly. With that said, it would appear your stand is unchanged and hope you are happy and got your $85.00 worth of blackening a good companys name. I also find it interesting, you failed to answer any questions from posters here asking for more info on this unfortunate situation.. more info could very well determine my stand as well as others here.

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Jack C

I've got this pre 10 made in 1936 that I bought from a 90 year old lady. Been in her dresser drawer for 50 years. In 95%+ condition. I guess some people here think S&W should fix anything that might go wrong with it.
I ain't that crazy.

For $83 with the shipping taken care of I would be pleased with that, I have a few revolvers made before 1988 and if smith is still willling to fix them thats good enough for me.I have had my own issues as of late dealing with glock cs.

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Take it easy. Chris

I know my replies make me sound like a jerk but I stand by them all the same. Principles. They can make a guy sound rougher than he really is. Honestly I feel for anyone that buys a gun that turns out to be bum. I have had pretty good luck so far. I even bought a parts gun that after cleaning out the oil caked goo it turned out to be my favorite Ruger 10/22. Maybe I need to work on having some better tact and respect when I’m typing. But some issues are an insta-anger inducer. Like the all Taurus is junk type threads. I try to avoid those like the plague. Or the Ruger’s are bottom shelf. Or the Sigma’s suck. Or the ILS/MIM. Or maybe I should have a blood pressure monitor installed to the keyboard that disables the keys if the BP goes too high…

If you buy something new shouldn't it work right out of the box? With the lack of a return policy on a firearm shouldn't the factory/manufacture make it right? Even if the thing is/was thirty years old it's still called S&W and consumer policy states a company buys all debts, warranties, and future profits when buying out or into a company unless otherwise stated. I'm surprised allot of you guys tell the poster to eat the cost when in fact if it was one of our guns we would want the factory to do us right. The $80. is not unreasonable if you factor in what shipping costs are these days, but this is about principle and them backing up what's in writing on a NEW gun. Keep in mind this is an American multi-million dollar company that specializes in fixing/repairing their own recent products. If it were me I would of used what the rep told me over the phone when sending me a return label and I would get it fixed for FREE. YOU all should know once a company starts charging to fix what was once free the price will eventually go up and it will eventually be charged to everyone. If this company is in fear that it's repair overhead will hurt their bottom-line then perhaps they should focus on the quality of their current products.

Hehehe, Boss.... we are joined at the keyboard, thats me all the way. Especially the second half of your response.


I also have done some more thinking about this whole thread and a few recent similar threads I responded to defending S&W. I realize that when a company like Smith is attacked, they are not here to defend themselves, so who will? Guess I take it upon myself to stand up and be counted when I feel something isn't right and hope that I can represent myself and S&W fairly and with respect. It doesn't always work out exactly how I would like it to. But I try..

One last point..... IT IS NOT NEW!!!!!!!! Can anyone here say without a doubt that it is new.. There is more to this story than we are being told. I will not condemn Smith based on one biased, lack of info and evidence statement. A few of you guys are condeming S&W and have nothing to support that stand... other than you want something for free... what did the OP pay for this gun? When will any of the questions asked be answered?

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Jack C

are you kidding me....

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Jack C

Pay the bill get it fixed.If you don't want it i will take it for the price you paid for it and get it fixed.

To the OP,
Yes sir, IMO your expectation is very unreasonable. Your revolver is not covered by a lifetime warranty. The S&W rep told you it would be taken care of, not taken care of free of charge. The free shipping is a generous gesture.
Also, IMO, your revolver is not new in the box. It would be hard to say how many hands it has passed through since 1981. I think ANIB would be a far more accurate description. In all likelyhood, it has been fired. During the time frame of your revolvers manufacture, I worked in a local gun store. Virtually every gun I checked had been fired every other chamber and some all at the factory.
This past Sunday I bought a 6 inch 25-9 at a local gun show. The seller told me it was new in the box. It wasn't, it had been fired. Since this was the exact revolver I have been looking for, and the price was extremely low I bought it. I took a chance, just as anyone buying a used revolver takes. Dean

OK, I will try to answer the questions that I know....I have already stated that there is no way the tell if the gun is new and even said that it is more than likely not.

I really don't believe it was fired outside of the factory; there is absolutely no evidence that I can find around the firing pin port, the cylinder walls or the cylinder face (it is a nickle plated gun and generally any cleaning of the veracity it would take to remove evidence of use would show in the finish).

I paid $535.00 for the gun complete with mint box and all documentation including the warranty card.

In my conversation with S&W we discussed the age and condition of the gun before they sent the email saying they would " make it right, we stand behind our work". They did pay for shipping to them but I am paying return shipping.

Once I was told there would be a charge I discussed the issue with S&W and told them that they had inspected the gun and it was clearly in as new condition and that the malfunction was a manufacturing defect; they agreed with that assessment by saying "I sympathize with your situation but the company policy is that the life time warranty policy was not put into affect until 1989".

That is what I know; the reason that I did not respond to these questions is because they do not seem relevant to the subjective question of "what do you think"? I already know that the objective answer is S&W is not obligated to fix the gun under warranty as being correct.

It is all relevant, I now change my stand. S&W did nothing wrong period. Whoever you bought your gun from, should be the ire of your disappointment. You paid good, all of the money for it to the dealer. You bought a gun out of warranty, your dealer is the guy you should be questioning here. Your dealer is the guy that made the money and walked away with no responsibility. I have taken care of customers with product I sold, just because it was the right thing to do. In my book I always ask myself, what would I expect if I was wearing the other shoe. Trust me, I have lost more money than you would believe if I told you what I have eaten over the years. I'm in the performance auto market, no-0ne blows up the motors, it's always someone elses fault.. Good luck with your M36, there is one of those I have been drooling on in 2 of my local gun shops.. one is actually a vintage 1981 build date right on the sales tag, it's beautiful, no box, looks brand new and price tag is $425 cash, $450 CC.. wood grips, the other one is a newer model, I think they said 1990's, 36- 9 maybe with the rubber grips, it's mean looking and fits my big paw just right...

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Jack C

With history-pride-quality behind S&W, one of the most prestigious names in the gun industry (I'm not sure any more): all this for $83.00. Please, don't say if they did this to every Tom-Dick-or Harry, the balance sheet will go out of kilter. If the OP places this on other gun forums, the PR damage will far out-weigh the cost of doing right to this revolver. Did some of you not read what they said: "They admit to the FAULT: this was a factory problem that should never have happened" FIX IT: Free....
We live in a society of the common law, that can deviate from any strict interpretation of a contractual dispute. FIX IT: FREE!

An interesting 8 page read ...

Note to turbo ... Of the two pistols you mentioned, I suggest purchasing the latter as it is still covered under S&W warranty.

Amazing, where in Sabre's statement did S&W say it was a factory defect... I swear, did I miss something else that was written//// Sabre described it as a factory defect, Smith sympathized.... what did I miss..

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Jack C

I want both of them... I'm a tinkerer, if they need work, I'll do it myself if possible, not because I'm cheap, that's the fun of owning guns.. Did I mention Smith and Wesson is 10 minutes from my house.... or that I shoot at the Smith and Wesson Retail Store\Shooting Range every week... or that I own no less than 15 S&W guns.. not that it has any bearing on this thread..... ...

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Jack C

I don't get it, because a gun was bought that was broke and the one that bought it doesn't know how to check one or to lazy to check before paying for it and then finds he screw up on the buy and wants the factory to fix it for him for free that has no life time on it. Pay the 85 dollars and learn from your screw up.

OK, everone seems to be in agreement with one side or the other. As far as I can see the only irritating part in the OP's mind is the CS rep saying they'd take care of it.

What I'd like to know from the OP is:

Well, that's kind of an open ended phrase. Did he say they'd take care of it for free?

But regardless of that. What would have been your response if he told you up front that you'd have to pay the $80+?

Oh, forgot to say - Welcome to the forum. You'll find that most threads generally don't get this contencious

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Pete.

I went back and re-read your first post. I don't see anywhere in the whole thread where you've contacted the seller regarding this situation. If, as you say he's a LGS, I'd think he might want some repeat business. He may want to do his part of good CS and remedy the defective gun he sold you.

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Pete.

PDL, in the middle of the very first post I cut and pasted the actual email from the S&W service rep the exact phrase used by him was "We stand behind our products and will make this right for you."

Does that use the word free....no it sure doesn't, but it is as close as you can get without saying free.

As I have already posted I consider the fee minor and I paid it without hesitation once the service center gave me their final determination; I have also said that I agree that I am responsible for failure to properly inspect the weapon when I said that the buyer beware axiom applies. Although the cylinder does lock up properly on two of 5 cylinders and it does take a good bit of two finger pressure to cause the malfunction; given that I had never experienced this particular malfunction in my 35 years of shooting S&W revolvers I probably would have missed it in the store even if I had spent more than 5 minutes inspecting the firearm.

I have learned some things from this thread and it has changed my perception in some respect; however, I stand by my original assertion that the response from S&W is not what I have come to expect from American gun manufactures....right or wrong. But mostly it has been entertaining and some times that is good enough!

Yes, seriously. Next year lets say I purchase an 15-22 that was lost in the store's inventory from 09 and when I get to the range the extractor blows out after the first round the extractor ends up in someone's eye blinding them. Who's to blame? there was no recall but there was an issue with them?
There are several item that I can bring up here like toyota's, peanut butter, ext. Who gets the blame when those things go south --- the Toyota dealer-NO, The grocery store-NO Let just say the revolvers problem would of been push off from the factory and the first round killed someone then what? Would it of been to old to be S&W problem?
If what the poster states is true that it was a factory defect and it was unfired then they should stand behind their product. YES it's a good point that he bought an old gun and couldn't check it himself but you're not required to be a gunsmith to buy any gun, BUT why would you be required to fix A FACTORY DEFECT? YES, the dealer sold an old gun but there's no expiration date on them sure the poster should of gone to the dealer first with the issue but he did good and called customer service and they sent him a label.
In the past I've called S&W and they a mixed bag of apples when it comes to customer service. I've had items sent to me for free, and I've had to pay at other times. I've had great conversations with some and arguments with know it all's that no fringing idea what they were talking about. The ones that get me the most are the ones that attempt to answer your question BEFORE your finished speaking, and after your done speaking give you a different responses than the one there interrupting you with.
The warranty card on those old guns states free from factory defects, and there is no expiration date on those cards. Sure $80. is not allot of money these days BUT this is about principal "warranty".

Nite guys, it was fun, time to sleep this one off.. been great chewing the fat here.. this horse is dead!!!

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Jack C

Next year lets say I purchase an 15-22 that was lost in the store's inventory from 09 and the warranty states "Free from defects and will repair or replace at no cost for a period of three years from the date of the original purchase." When I get home the wife says to take it back or else. I sell it to a different LGS where it languishes in the back until 2039 when it is discovered and sold "as new".
The second hand purchaser gets to the range the extractor blows out after the first round the extractor ends up in someone's coffee. No one is hurt. Is Smith And Wesson liable to repair a 30 year old, second hand gun that is 27 years out of warranty?

THAT'S the OP's situation. Who, by the way, is getting a bit of a bad rap. This thread has become much larger than his scenario and I want to make it clear that I am not attacking him, just using his story as the springboard.

Listen, earlier this year I bought a brand new 2006 Model 64 with a 2" barrel. It was shipped to the armorer from S&W as part of a LEO order and sold to me as a new-old-stock sales overrun they found in the back room. This gun had been publicly advertised. A truly brand new, four year old gun with evidence that includes the packaging, the paperwork and the envelope and test fired case from the factory. I sent in the warranty card and retained my receipt. I do the same for lifetime warrantied trash cans. The burden of proof is on me and I accept that responsibility.
If anything goes wrong with either my gun or my trash can, I would expect it to be made right for free - forever because that was the deal from the manufacturer at the time the item was made.

Maybe this is why S&W stock is not performing well inspite of incredible sales volume. Warranty repair costs are eating up the profits.

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S&WHF 366

No. I know most on this forum know more about guns then the law, but if this was taken to a Judge in a Small Claims Court; it would take a different slant. The Judge would read the claim, view the lawyer representing the defendent, look at the S&W attorney and say: "Are you kidding me!!! You admit to a factory defect that might have had serious repercussions regardless of the date of your warranty and you bring this to court. Take care of it!" Case closed...

I think Smith should have fixed the gun because it was unfired and obviously defective right out of the box.

Would they HAVE to fix it? Nooooo, but SHOULD they fix it? Yeesssss!

The reason is because a long established company like S&W depends on the general public's opinion of their integrity as an aid to sales.

I remember once reading that Sears Roebuck honored a voucher that had been issued some 50 years earlier......it was the best $2.50 Sears ever spent in terms of enhancing their image to the American consumer.

Too bad Smith doesn't understand things like that.

The only fair way to put this to bed would be to get a factory letter on this gun.Make sure it was in-deed sold to a store for retail selling. This gun could have come from an unhappy employee at the factory.It didn't pass inspection and was on the way back to be worked on when it disappeared.Why has the gun sitting for thirty years without ever being fired? Who knows whats going on with this? Start with a little research. I'm sure alot of us would like to know the true history behind this story.

It's run its course...

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GA Carry member
Vietnam Vet

not quite !!!

I have to agree with XTrooper on this. In addition, they saved you about $40 by sending you a prepaid shipping label, which they did not have to do.

This was not a new gun! This was a 30 year old USED gun in NIB condition. DO you not see the difference here?

This may seem unusual to some, but if I made that purchase the first thing I would have done, was go on line to the S&W site and register my new firearm for the included warranty.. Even though it was a 30 year old unfired brand new firearm, then I would have contacted S&W about my problem.

These manufacturers were mentioned in this post, Colt, Ruger, Rock River and Weatherby.

I wonder how these manufacturers would have treated the same scenario?

Not really...This is a Smith & Wesson, a name that once stood for something: Quality with Pride of Ownership...We're not talking about a Jimenez, Jennings, et al...This just shows me they have gone down the tube...

So when did it stand for something? Did it stand for something 30 years ago when it sent a broken gun out? Did it stand for something decades ago when it didn't stand by its products with a lifetime policy? It's largely the same great company it's always been.

All this is good ol' days BS. People, companies, life wasn't any better back then. We haven't changed much in a century or two, and if we have the sociologic evidence points to improvement.

I guess some of you "just don't get it". They just lost me as a customer where I was all set to purchase a revolver, the Governor model...Now, not sure what the profit margin are on their guns, but must be $83 or more and keeping their production line and workers with a paycheck...The OP's rendition of what happened left me with a sour-stomach....Sorry, my opinion and my wallet...

and we've got ours...... I'll be picking up my new PC S&W500 Bone Collector today at the Smith & Wesson Retail Store. While there I will be checking out the new Governhor in the show case... I got to handle it last week when they were setting up the showcase... very nice, hope to purchase one of those too..

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Jack C

I don't see it as a case of S&W should fix the man's gun because they want to be Mr. nice guy(s).

What I think it is, is that S&W should fix the guys gun because it is best for S&W.

I believe that they have lost more in sales, right here in this very thread, than it would have cost them to fix a gun that obviously was defective right out of the box.

That, to me, is poor management policy.