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Old 02-24-2011, 01:46 AM
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Default Why 41 Mag?

What does a 41 mag do that can't be done with a 44? Just curious? Seems you could shoot a whole spectrum of loads thru a 44 that would cover the 41s options, plus even larger hard cast thru the 44?

I am going to get a woods gun and can't decide if i need anything more than a 357 with 180 gr hard cast? No Griz left in Colorado.
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Old 02-24-2011, 02:16 AM
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.44s are like belly buttons, opinions, and...
Realistically nothing a .41 can do that a .44 couldn't, but I like going a bit against the grain. Bought my first .41 in spring of '08, and spoke up to claim my fourth tonight. All while the lone .44 in my collection has remained just that...the lone .44.
Honestly, the only benefit I can tell to the .41 is recoil. In my Marlin leverguns, identical except for caliber, max loads in the .41 recoil noticably lighter than max .44 loads. And that's just to my personal shoulder. YMMV.
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Old 02-24-2011, 08:55 AM
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Having had identical revolvers (Smith 29 and Smith 57) I'll tell you that the .41 seems to be a bit more accurate. Maybe it's the recoil, don't know. The .41 has always had a reputation for being a bit more accurate than the .44. Yes the .44 will do everything the .41 can do, but alot of it is reputation. When the movie Dirty Harry came out, the .44, which really wasn't doing much better than the .41 in sales, broke out and never looked back. The other reason is the .44 Magnum has a mild practice round in the .44 Special, the .41 doesn't have that. Remember that the .41 was supposed to be a law enforcement round, and it failed at that because most officers were used to .38's, and the .41 Magnum ain't no .38. So, it failed, although in few circles some loved the gun. Personally I like the .41 for personal defense (but the .44 I carried too) because with the right handloads it will do the job well.
Yes the .44 will do everything the .41 will do, but the .41 will do it style.
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Old 02-24-2011, 09:09 AM
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Could be stated the other way around, "what does a 44 Mag do that can't be done with a 41?". Answer, nothing except there are no 41 Specials.
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Old 02-24-2011, 09:28 AM
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I owned and shot a .44 Magnum for 30 years before acquiring a .41 Magnum late last year. Thoug I wanted a .41 Magnum way back yonder I went the .44 Magnum route simply because no .41s were in stock when I had the money to spend.

The .41 Magnum is a great round and is all it is cracked up to be for accuracy and shoot-ability. It is also a perfect fit in the N-Frame for recoil toleration. The .44 Magnum, with gut-bustin' full power loads using heavier bullets, is a bit of a chore.
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Old 02-24-2011, 09:30 AM
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But there really are 41 specials. Several gunsmith have built 41 specials on Ruger flattop frames and eve a few 41 special Single Six five shot guns exist. I believe you can even buy 41 special brass now. Remember the 41 long colt, that was a 41 special if I am thinking correct. I do know that my Ruger 41 magnum 4 5/8 inch barreled revolver will hit a chest size target at 140 yards shooting a 210 grain bullet in front of 22 grains of H110. Did I meantion that I hold dead on? I know my 44 magnums will not do that with like bullets but the old 41 will do it every time. To anser the original question, I choose the 41 magnum because it makes others mad and they just wonder why not a 44!! Now, I would never choose the 41 if I didn't roll my own ammo. That factory stuff is way too expensive.
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Old 02-24-2011, 09:32 AM
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I've noticed that the 41 has a loyal cult following among knowlegeable shooters. It shares this with the 44 Special and the 10mm, all less popular cartidges that demand handloading to be practicle but retain stati as "rounds of choice" among some who have their pick.
I am a 44 Special fan and use the magnum when I need more power. Already have dies, shellplates, and bullets that work for both, hence have no interest in the 41.
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Old 02-24-2011, 09:45 AM
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A few years back some of the better known revolver enthusiast (Hamilton Bowen, John Taffin, and a couple others) gathered at a friends ranch in TX.
They decided to compare the two rounds and see their effects on things shot by them. Deer, javelena, goats all shot with both rounds. The biggest difference between the rounds tested was the recoil. There was no noticeable difference in the wounds produced by each round and all animals dropped right there. The .41 did just as good a job on those light skinned animals as the .44 with considerably less recoil.
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Old 02-24-2011, 11:09 AM
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Default 41 Magnum

Years ago when crawling around in Rhododendron Thickets
Dispatching Wild Hogs, there was only one caliber .
A pair of 41 Mags.
Less recoil , just as effective as a 44.
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Old 02-24-2011, 11:31 AM
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Panache
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Old 02-24-2011, 11:57 AM
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Thanks guys! Very interesting!

How does it compare recoil wise to a 357?
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Old 02-24-2011, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neal/CO View Post
Thanks guys! Very interesting!

How does it compare recoil wise to a 357?
More, but less than a 44 Mag and not quite as sharp as .357 Mag.
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Old 02-24-2011, 12:04 PM
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The 41 is a good round. 41 Specials exist if you handload. Recoil-wise it's more than a 357 in a similar size/weight gun, but not hugely so. I personally don't own one, have a pile of 357s which I like for most purposes, and a 44 and a brace of 500s for the bigger stuff, but I'm inclined to think that a 41 will do about anything that a 44 will, or vice-versa.
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Old 02-24-2011, 01:57 PM
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Hummmmmmmmmmmm, lemme see? "No griz in Colorado". Fall 1979, female grizzley attacked guide while he was guiding archery hunters northwest of Alamosa. It took approximately 300 stitches to close the guide's wounds. Grizzley was killed by guide using an arrow as a spear, and the animal finally expired. Source: Rocky Mountain News.

How would I know about this? I was living 103 miles north of there, at the time. Then, when I went to the Colorado Law Enforcement Training Academy, at Golden, Co., in March 1980, I bunked right next to an Alamosa PD officer, for 8 solid weeks. He happened to be the nephew to the guide that got ate. Oh, the grizzley was confirmed as a grizzley by CU wildlife professors.

Now, do you honestly think that female grizzley just FELL out of the sky, into the middle of Colorado? The 10 years I was a cop in that area, amazing how many times my partner and I found bear tracks that were between 10 and 14 inches long and between 4 and 8 inches wide, on both sides of the Arkansas River. Black bear? I Don't Think So!

The San Isabel Nat. Forest is a very amazing place. You would be surprised what you might find, when you get off the beaten path.

And one more thing, Pat Grashorn bunked on the other side of me, while at the academy. I think alot of you might know him, by his custom grips.
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Old 02-24-2011, 01:58 PM
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Why not the 41mag?

If you haven't noticed there is a big gap between the 357mag and the 44mag ballastics wise and the 41mag does fill in this gap. I think its been the underdog, its been overlooked and sometimes forgotten about magnum caliber for many years. Its the middle child between the 357mag and the 44mag. It has more power and less recoil than the 357mag yet it can hang in there with the 44mag. In some bullet weights it has more power than the 44mag (41mag 210gr vs 44mag 210gr).
While the 357mag and 44mag shine more on there own the 41mag needs no help and can shine on its own too if we give it a try. There's more pro's than con's about the 41mag too. There's nothing the 44mag can do that the 41mag won't do. Just ask the hunters who use both. They will tell you that they see no difference in killing power between the 41mag and the 44mag so there pretty much equal in performance. Most 41mag owners will admit the 41mag also shoots flatter, a tad more accurate and has less recoil than a 44mag too. So really why not the 41mag?? It sounds like an interesting caliber to play with to me.

The 41mag to me is the cinderella caliber, she's an awesome performer dying to get out and prove it. Bill

BTW; I think there are more 41mag owners/shooters than we think. This is why its harder to find brass and new ammo. I really think its gaining in popularity lately too. Elmer K. would be proud i'm sure.

OT
I get nervious when i'm told that animals are extinct. I was seeing mountainlion tracks in the upper part of the green mountains for well over two and one half decades when ther were suppose to be extinct. Ok there called catamounts up there but there the samey same as cougars/mountainlions too. The one i seen was between 180lbs to 200lbs. male. Don't get me started about the larger blackbears that i have tracked up there too. They crack me up when they talk about the average size of the blackbears when there paws fit my size 13" sorrel boots. Yup there are no mountainlions up there too. When i hear the word extinct i'm on the look out for it. Think about it with the millions and millions of acres of forest how can we possibly say we killed them all and there extinct now and pose no threat.

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Old 02-24-2011, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueknight7 View Post
Hummmmmmmmmmmm, lemme see? "No griz in Colorado". Fall 1979, female grizzley attacked guide while he was guiding archery hunters northwest of Alamosa. It took approximately 300 stitches to close the guide's wounds. Grizzley was killed by guide using an arrow as a spear, and the animal finally expired. Source: Rocky Mountain News.

How would I know about this? I was living 103 miles north of there, at the time. Then, when I went to the Colorado Law Enforcement Training Academy, at Golden, Co., in March 1980, I bunked right next to an Alamosa PD officer, for 8 solid weeks. He happened to be the nephew to the guide that got ate. Oh, the grizzley was confirmed as a grizzley by CU wildlife professors.

Now, do you honestly think that female grizzley just FELL out of the sky, into the middle of Colorado? The 10 years I was a cop in that area, amazing how many times my partner and I found bear tracks that were between 10 and 14 inches long and between 4 and 8 inches wide, on both sides of the Arkansas River. Black bear? I Don't Think So!

The San Isabel Nat. Forest is a very amazing place. You would be surprised what you might find, when you get off the beaten path.

And one more thing, Pat Grashorn bunked on the other side of me, while at the academy. I think alot of you might know him, by his custom grips.
You are right! it would not surprise me if there are some hidden in the San Juans still? Wolves are finally starting to show up in NW Colorado also!

But I think I have a better chance of getting hit by debri from the space shuttle, than being attacked by a Grizzly on the east slope
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Old 02-24-2011, 03:22 PM
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Neal, as my buddy from Alamosa PD said, the grizzley was probably kinda "prodded" into doing something. That being said, there were some awfully "big" dog tracks found by my partner and I in the middle of the Fourteener's. Yeah, that is where I worked. We weren't the largest county in the state, but, we had more 14,000 ft. mountains, than any other place.
As for comparing grizzley attacks in Colorado, and getting hit by space shuttle debris. I haven't heard of anyone getting hit by space shuttle debris. I have heard of a grizzley attack.
And do remember this, what area I am talking about is the eastern slope. Granted, we were close to or on the continental divide when we were finding alot of this.
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Old 02-24-2011, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueknight7 View Post
Neal, as my buddy from Alamosa PD said, the grizzley was probably kinda "prodded" into doing something. That being said, there were some awfully "big" dog tracks found by my partner and I in the middle of the Fourteener's. Yeah, that is where I worked. We weren't the largest county in the state, but, we had more 14,000 ft. mountains, than any other place.
As for comparing grizzley attacks in Colorado, and getting hit by space shuttle debris. I haven't heard of anyone getting hit by space shuttle debris. I have heard of a grizzley attack.
And do remember this, what area I am talking about is the eastern slope. Granted, we were close to or on the continental divide when we were finding alot of this.
That was just a joke. I wasn't trying to be disrespectful in any way!!! I would love to hear some stories about what people have found up there!! Once you do go over the divide there, you really are in the wilds! I have fished up in the upper drainage of the Rio Grande and it is pretty wild.

I would like to believe they still exist!!! And I would never want to kill a bear! Unless he was chewing on something i value
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Old 02-24-2011, 03:39 PM
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For long time use if durability and big bore performance is a concern, the 41 is probably a better match for the N frame than the 44.
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Old 02-24-2011, 04:15 PM
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Much as I like the .41 Magnum there is no way I can give it the attribute of having less recoil than a .357 Magnum. A 6-inch Model 57 will have a distinctly heavier recoil than a 6-inch Model 27, assuming heavy loads are used in each.
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Old 02-24-2011, 04:31 PM
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I would say that my 57 recoils a bit more than my Model 27. But it is a little different, the .357 has more of a crack than the push of the .41 Magnum.
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Old 02-24-2011, 05:05 PM
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Neal, when I first went to Chaffee Co., I carried a M-57 .41 mag. Never felt undergunned. It was a ton of steel to carry on your hip all day. That was back when everything was leather too.
But, I also carried the Rem. 210 gr. jacketed softpoints, not the 210 gr. soft lead semi-wadcutters, that were suppose to be the duty ammo.
It was interesting to qualify with that stuff. I always found a way to do it. When we were finding large tracks, that was on my hip, and my .338 Win. Mag. or my .350 Rem. Mag. was in my patrol car.
I have a long fond memory of the .41 Remington Magnum. Was with me for alot of miles, before the Department attorney decided we had to standardize on caliber. Then, we ended up with .38/.357 Mag. Everyone had .357's. And finally they furnished ammo.
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Old 02-24-2011, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diamonback68 View Post
Could be stated the other way around, "what does a 44 Mag do that can't be done with a 41?". Answer, nothing except there are no 41 Specials.
That one is easy to answer. There are a lot more bullet weights, molds and 44 gas checks are easy to find while 41 checks are difficult at best, being no longer made by Lyman or Hornaday.
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Old 02-24-2011, 05:47 PM
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Thirty years ago I shot my first elk with a 4 5/8 inch Ruger .41 Magnum I had bought at a Sheriff's auction for $125. I was amazed at its performance, and I've been a fan ever since. I love the .44 Special, the .45 Colt, and the .45 ACP out of a revolver too, but the .44 Magnum has never given me the pleasure the other cartridges have given me. I can't really tell you why, however. It is more of a gut feeling than anything else.
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Old 02-24-2011, 06:16 PM
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Cast Performance Bullets makes lots of 41 gas check bullets.
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Old 02-24-2011, 06:27 PM
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I've owned 5 41 mags and only 2 44 mags. I feel the 41 mag is more accurate for me at least. I guess I just shoot it better.
It's way more powerful than a 357 mag I've had 3 of them.
However reloading is a must. It really opens up a new world for the 41 mag with so many more bullet wieght choices. Although I mostly shoot 210-220gr bullets. You just have to experience one for yourself, then you'll understand.
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Old 02-24-2011, 07:08 PM
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Montana Bullet company makes 215 grain SWC's that have gas checks, I have some loaded right now 16.0 grains of 2400.
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Old 02-24-2011, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtgianni View Post
That one is easy to answer. There are a lot more bullet weights, molds and 44 gas checks are easy to find while 41 checks are difficult at best, being no longer made by Lyman or Hornaday.
The question was what the 44 and the 41 can "DO", not what molds or checks are available.


I also never said that brass wasn't available for the Special, just there are no manufacturers of finished ammo.
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Old 02-24-2011, 08:19 PM
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The question was what the 44 and the 41 can "DO", not what molds or checks are available.


I also never said that brass wasn't available for the Special, just there are no manufacturers of finished ammo.
This is something that I am working on. I have written to every major and even some minor ammo maker out there in an effort to get the ball rolling on a .41 Special. I have done alot of work with it, but the real credit goes to John Taffin who I am following on this. I can tell that Hornady is not interested, have not heard back from Winchester, Remington, Federal, Black Hills, or Cor-Bon. I have made the case that if there was a .41 Special, it would be a hot seller, especially with the cost of factory .41 Magnum ammo. In the letter I got from Ruger, they were interested in the project, but since they don't make ammo, they are on the sidelines. I would like to get Smith off their behinds in coming up with a .41 Special like the 696, and Ruger in .357 framed Blackhawk in .41 Special if the ammo could ever be realized. It would be an easy cartridge to make, one of the easiest in fact. But it would be the first time I think that there would be a Special after a Magnum instead of the other way around.
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Old 02-24-2011, 08:27 PM
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If your purpose is to own only one handgun in a magnum caliber, the answer is nothing. But I own many calibers where performance can easily be loaded to overlap. For some reason, given opportunity and the right price, I would buy even more. He who dies with the most toys wins.
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Old 02-24-2011, 09:13 PM
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He who dies with the most toys wins.[/QUOTE]

I'll be in the top ten soon.....before i die. Bill
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Old 02-24-2011, 09:15 PM
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I have a .44 Magnum, a Ruger SBH, but I came close to buying a Ruger in .41 and sometimes wish that I did. The alloy frame makes for a much handier gun with pretty much the same power. In the S&W line, I would have trouble justifying a .41.
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Old 02-24-2011, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
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I would say that my 57 recoils a bit more than my Model 27. But it is a little different, the .357 has more of a crack than the push of the .41 Magnum.
The difference in recoil is the size of the brass case. The 357mg brass is narrower while the 41mag brass is wider. This is also true in the larger straight cased brass in the rifles.(less recoil) Well the recoil felt is different. Bill

BTW; The only problem i had with the ruger SA's is the screws comming loose on the frame to grip frame on the stout loads in my 44mag.
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Old 02-24-2011, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diamonback68 View Post
Could be stated the other way around, "what does a 44 Mag do that can't be done with a 41?". Answer, nothing except there are no 41 Specials.
And that is what keeps the .41 Police in second place. I think it's as simple as that. Sure, you can load it down, but not everyone handloads. So, I think it's more hand loaders that keep the .41 alive. Just big enough of a crowd to keep it from circling the drain but not big enough to keep it in the glory light. Heck, I would say .45 Colt is far and beyond more popular even if you delete the Judge crowd. Does that extra .019 of steel make it any stronger even? And the Marlin .444 helps with the .429 bullet sales. And all the lever carbines in .44 while .41 are almost non present. There's just too much the .44 has going for it while the .41 isn't bad, it just never was really that innovative. They could just have easily made the 58 in a .44 like so many have done for them. Hey, how cool would a 658 in .44 be??? (Sweet, he thinks... Hmmm...)

P.S. - I still say .41 special doesn't exist. It isn't a factory load from a major distributor. You could make your own brass from magnum length brass it you wanted to.. Starline just found a nitch product again for who was it now??? HANDLOADERS!!! (That are the bigest thing keeping the .41 alive I still say.)

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Old 02-24-2011, 10:51 PM
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I own three .41 Magnums. A 4" M657, a 6" M57 and an 8&3/8" M57. And just last week Mr. Lapell put me onto another, as new 6", that a dealer up his way was offering.
I also have a 7.5" Redhawk .44 Magnum. The only advantage I can see for the .44 is the 273 cast semiwad bullet I cast for it as a heavyweight. The heaviest I cast for the .41s is a 220 gr. semiwad. I much prefer the .41s! A lot of it is probably sort of a snob value, I guess. .41s are hard to come by. The other thing is the fact that the .41s are Smiths. Much prefer them over any Ruger I've ever owned!
I also have and shoot about eight or nine .38/.357 Smiths, mostly N frames, and I'm continuing to buy them, too, as a sort of hedge against inflation. Mr. L put me onto an as new M28 from the same fellow! These N frames loaded with Elmer's 172 gr. Semi Wad are very pleasant shooting for most uses. Probably shoot them more than any of the others.
But, if I could only have one handgun, it would be an M57 with a 6" barrel like my old one on top in the pic, loaded with a 220 gr. Keith bullet in front of 9 gr. of Unique! (Excuse the poor pic! Need to take some better ones.)
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  #36  
Old 02-25-2011, 10:09 AM
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The 657 is the Mountain Gun?
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Old 02-25-2011, 10:19 AM
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Smith made Mountain Guns in both 657 and 57 versions in addition to the standard 57 and 657's.
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Old 02-25-2011, 12:29 PM
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I musta' missed the Mountain Gun part?
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Old 02-25-2011, 04:51 PM
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Default Ballistics

If I remember correctly, ballistic tables show that the 41 outperforms the 44 at longer distances due to a better ballistics coeficient. Don't remember how far out you have to get...I think it was past 100 yards.
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Old 02-25-2011, 09:11 PM
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Not a "Special", but shoots like a Special @ 800 fps.

"NEW" .41 Rem Mag 210gr Lead Semi-Wadcutter 100pk

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Old 02-26-2011, 02:57 AM
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Difference between the .41 and .44 is like trying to decide between a .280 Rem and 30-06. Both excellence cartridges using the same bullet launchers ie long action bolt actions or Smith N frames.

I started handloading on the Smith 57. After owning about a dozen Smith 57/58s/657, I'm currently down to one 58, 14" T/C Contender and a Marlin 1894S in .41 Mag. Gave my only .44 Mag (29-2 6.5") to my oldest son last year. My boolit molds range from 195 SWC to 255 WFN.

The .44 Mag was designed from the get go as a handgun hunting round where as the .41 Mag was designed for the law enforcement but came out with two different loadings. The criteria for the law enforcement use is still being used today but applied now in an auto loading format ie, .40 S&W. The 10mm can be looked as the other loading that came out with the .41 mag. Just that when LE got the guns they were not a mid sized frame like the L frame but the N frame. Several gunsmith will chamber the Ruger GP100 in .41 mag and maybe as a 5 shot L frame. I'll still take my .41s thank you.

CD
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Old 02-26-2011, 09:09 AM
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I've had .357s and .44 mags since the 1970s. I bought my first .41 ten years ago and now own eight but down to three .44 mags.
I can't say exactly why but I enjoy shooting .41s over .44s especially with hotter loads. It may be reduced recoil or just knowing I'm shooting something out of the norm.
Most of the .41s I load are reduced load more like a special. I load up heavier for deer hunting and the fun of shooting some at times too.
I'd love to see .41 specials and an L frame 5 shot snub made in them.
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Old 02-26-2011, 01:07 PM
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In my opinion the question cannot be answered to most people's satisfaction. I believe a person has to have fired a 44 magnum enough to be very familiar with it to fully appreciate and understand the 41.

Even then a shooter cannot fully understand the subtle differences and superiority of the 41 unless he is an experienced/knowledgable reloader and it certainly helps if he has a background in casting bullets. At this level the question then becomes as someone has already mentioned,"why the 44 magnum ?"
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Old 03-03-2011, 12:58 AM
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Default S&W 6" 57-3, BFS 6318

Here it is! Dealer says it's only been fired 12 rounds! Even that doesn't show! It's new and pretty but will be a shooter!
Dick
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Old 03-03-2011, 02:31 AM
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I think the question really should be "what can a .44 Mag do that a .41 Mag can't". I would own a model 58, .41 Magnum right now if I didn't live in Germany; they are unheard of over here, both in ammuntion and weapons, unfortunately.
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Old 03-03-2011, 02:48 AM
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I just love the 41 Mag -- do I need another reason?
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Old 03-03-2011, 03:39 AM
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It seems crazy to get a 41 Magnum if you don't reload. I acquired my first Model 57 in the days after the Dirty Harry craze, when 44s were so scarce that many dealers were charging premiums for them. I do like that extra bit of steel between the charge hole and the cylinder wall! And the .41 does murder bowling pins.

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Old 03-03-2011, 03:57 AM
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I heart .41 magnum.
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Old 03-03-2011, 09:39 AM
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41 magnum proves there is a benevolent and caring god.....

41 mag is what she had in mind when she invented shot & shell
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Old 03-03-2011, 11:01 AM
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A full-charge 357 matches a lite 41 mag, a lite 44 mag matches a full-charge 41 mag. It's easy to find 357 or 44 mag brass at the range. New 41 mag brass is right pricey, but then what isn't? Now, why would I want a 41 magnum revolver? I don't.

Another over-priced differing opinion.
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