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  #101  
Old 03-01-2011, 09:33 AM
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That would be obscene! But whata' way to pick up chicks!

GF
hahaha... nice...

Ladder, just what I need, I did stick it in my waist band yesterday... checking to see how long it took me to get it out...
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  #102  
Old 03-01-2011, 10:02 AM
corgiS&W corgiS&W is offline
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Forgive him my son, for he know not what he said... or why...
I thought it was a valid question, and I asked it in all seriousness. Powder metallurgy has been used for complex and critical parts in many industries for many years. Properties must approximate those of forged and machined parts after 50 years of development.
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  #103  
Old 03-01-2011, 10:15 AM
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I thought it was a valid question, and I asked it in all seriousness. Powder metallurgy has been used for complex and critical parts in many industries for many years. Properties must approximate those of forged and machined parts after 50 years of development.
I agree, it was, I was speaking about the negative post directed at the MIM part..
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  #104  
Old 03-01-2011, 10:53 AM
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[QUOTE=ben1;135845398]Most weapons will outlast us and we will leave them behind for someone else to enjoy.

Only if we lube them with the correct lube, moly....they will last.

OT;
As my childern were born at the sametime i purchased guns for them. Because 30 years ago they were very affordable at that time so they wouldn't have the expense now to get them. I think i did the right thing at that time.(70's)

Everything i own will be passed down to them when i pass on. I'm willing my guns to all of them and there listed who gets what too. Lubing my guns with moly will make them last for many future generations of my family too.

My very first grandson is just 6 months old and he has a winchester model 1890 22cal pump rifle and a 1906 remington 22cal pump rifle too. Next i'll get him a 22cal bolt action and a 22cal lever action too. This way when he first starts shooting the bolt action as he learns gun safety and how to handle each action in a 22cal. I'm also thinking of building him his first small game and deer rifles too.

My plan right now as i get older my childern and grandchildern will be all set with guns and reloading equipment too. We need to make sure the future generations of our families carry on the sport and the traditions too. Bill

BTW; No one left me anything when they passed on but i never asked for nothing either. But i'm going to leave my family members withy all the toys when i pass on. My childern are getting there CCW license and i hope they get there collectors licenses too. Then they can all enjoy the seeds that i planted for all these many years.

Plus we need to keep the younger guys/gals busy nowadays so they don't get into trouble. My first two childern turned out great but i worried about my last son hanging with the wrong crowd. At the time i got him into dirtbikes more and more. Here was dad in his 40's chasing his son thru the woods at 80 to 100mph. Great, it wasn't the bikes that hurt me it was that dam 4 wheeler were i broke my ribs 3 times and really felt my age. My son made it through those times and never got into any trouble but dad took the brunt of it with my body. My point is to get involved with your kids and stay with them. Teach them about everything right and wrong. Hung them and tell them you love them, thats whats missing the the world today that close family bonding.

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  #105  
Old 03-01-2011, 11:30 AM
jrb_pro jrb_pro is offline
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Yep, bought one last year.

WAY, WAY too much hype has been made over the locks. The fact of the matter is that most people don't like the IDEA of locks. "It's ugly." It's TINY...it's totally non-intrusive (except for the RARE exceptions that don't really happen anymore of the lockups) from 99.9% of people. I've never had an issue, nor do I know anyone that has had one.

Great guns.
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  #106  
Old 03-01-2011, 11:37 AM
corgiS&W corgiS&W is offline
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I agree, it was, I was speaking about the negative post directed at the MIM part..
Aha! I missed the irony.
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  #107  
Old 03-01-2011, 12:57 PM
Geronimo Jim Geronimo Jim is offline
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WHAT ABOUT ALL THE FAILURES WHEN THE GUN LOCKS UP. Does everyone just forget about this? That's not important?

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  #108  
Old 03-01-2011, 01:11 PM
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WHAT ABOUT ALL THE FAILURES WHEN THE GUN LOCKS UP. Does everyone just forget about this? That's not imortant?
Haven't seen it here... if it happened to a few guys out of thousands... heck, I've seen problems with Smith guns without IL's everyday here... so are they no good? Lets get things in their proper perspective, did you have problems or hear about problems..
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  #109  
Old 03-01-2011, 01:37 PM
johngalt johngalt is offline
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I got into S&W revolvers late, they had already switched over to MIM and IL when I got my first. All of mine have been very good - good triggers, accurate, and function reliably. I would prefer not to have the IL, but I have had no problems. The old case-hardened triggers and hammers look better than MIM, but near as I can tell, comparing to a friends old 586, the MIM functions just as well.

I'm hesitant to buy used sight unseen over the internet, and I haven't found any decent deals on old revolvers locally, so I've bought new.
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  #110  
Old 03-01-2011, 02:46 PM
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I also got into guns late, until someone pointed out and I kept reading snippets of the IL, I had no idea what it was or where it was.... but since I now understand, it's just annoying to hear it mentioned like any gun with it is NG... just not right to imply something that just isn't so.. not fair to the newbies.. or S&W. Who is this helping... no one.. who does it hurt... everyone, including Smith & Wesson.
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  #111  
Old 03-01-2011, 03:04 PM
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Well, I'm glad to see that 4,367th thread that has devolved into the "lock & MIM" discussion has finally settled the issue . . .
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  #112  
Old 03-17-2011, 01:44 AM
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Hello... been reading posts here on SWF for a long time, just don't say much. (someone has almost always answered my question in another post)

A couple new thoughts maybe? I think SW will continue to improve their firearms to be lighter and safer to the GENERAL PUBLIC that owns just one or two per household... which means utilizing the newest materials and safety features. When I bought my first handgun in 2004, I chose a SW 410 (a .40 semi auto SA/DA w/ thumb safety) because I just didn't trust myself to not put a bullet through the girlfriend/dog/wall with the revolvers or Glock style pistols I saw.

Now, 7 years later, I still have the 410. But I have also added a 19-5, 686, and 10-5 that get much more use than the SA pistol. I'm at ease with all of them, and enjoy shooting them for the same reason I like driving my old 5 speed inline 6 Jeep Wrangler. Some things are enjoyable, and sometimes even comforting, in their rugged simplicity and reliability. Even though the Smiths are as old as I am (and older for the 10-5), they represent an era of craftsmanship that my dad and grandad could appreciate. And so do I.

It seems the real issue of the IL/MIM scuttlebutt is the same as Harley and the AMF years- production quality and image. SW must change as the times do, to meet the needs of a newer market of unskilled marksmen who don't know the first thing about firearms and probably won't take the time to learn. Hopefully the changes, over time, can meet the needs of these people, while not forgetting the people who got them where they are today.
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  #113  
Old 03-17-2011, 06:35 AM
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Those who collect the pre-MIM/IL guns are knowledgeable and wise but some are a little tightly wound, in my opinion.

The IL "failures" are always ... I know a guy, who knows a guy, who knew a guy that 17 years ago had what he is certain was a lockup.

It's all vapor ware.

None of the features of modern S&W guns are meant to denigrate the glorious history of Smith and Wesson.

The new Ford Mustang isn't the old Ford Mustang by any means. But both coexist quite well.
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  #114  
Old 03-17-2011, 10:37 AM
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I just bought a new no-lock j frame. first one i have ever had the pleasure of owning new. (well when i get it at least)

as long as a reasonable option is available and cost wise can be justified I think the option should be available. now I'm not some liberal whack job who feels business has a responsibility to meet my needs. they don't make products for me and they shouldn't. but if I represent a viable market that wants a certain product doesn't it make sense for that company to provide it?

well it worked in this situation. they sold a gun to a consumer who otherwise would never have purchased a new product. I know I am in company here. i also note that they left the option for those who are not offended by this option. that sounds like a good business model to me.

I think it was howard hughs who once lectured his assistant on the power of presentation. he said you can serve up a nice juicy t-bone on a plate, put a decent price on it, and you will sell many steaks. but slap down just a small piece of poop next to that steak and you will have a hard time selling it.

however maybe he didn't realize that there might be some that could overlook the poop? afterall the steak is priced right. you don't have to eat the poop. just brush it off if it bothers you. even a caveman can do that!
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  #115  
Old 03-17-2011, 08:52 PM
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+1 for what BluJax says, mirrors my thoughts exactly.

Try going to the Dodge dealer and tell them you want to order a '67 Charger.....they'll laugh and show you the 2011 model, or tell you to go buy a used one if you want a '67.

People who whine that "new S&W's aren't the same as the old ones" just don't make sense........tell me, what IS the same as it was 20-30 years ago?

I own several IL and MIM S&W's revolvers, as well as older ones. I will continue to own, buy and shoot IL and MIM S&W's. I really like the new Classic Model 58.
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  #116  
Old 03-17-2011, 09:24 PM
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Well, I'm glad to see that 4,367th thread that has devolved into the "lock & MIM" discussion has finally settled the issue . . .
Not quite yet
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  #117  
Old 03-17-2011, 09:35 PM
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If my 500 acts up, I'll just throw it, might hurt even more

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  #118  
Old 03-17-2011, 10:13 PM
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Thumbs up Are many people buying SW revolvers?

Just bought one tonight. A 642-1 with no lock at Cheaper Than Dirt for 369.00. This is the second new no lock one I've bought. I will not buy one with a lock though.
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  #119  
Old 03-17-2011, 10:25 PM
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Just bought one tonight. A 642-1 with no lock at Cheaper Than Dirt for 369.00. This is the second new no lock one I've bought. I will not buy one with a lock though.
I will... thanks for leaving a few for me..
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  #120  
Old 03-17-2011, 10:26 PM
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Among my favorite Smith revolvers is my "almost new" 625JM. To be candid, I bought it used. But, in fact, it's only a couple of years old and it has all of the features that haters of modern Smith products detest. Mim'd internals, unpinned barrel and yes, a lock. It also is among the best shooting revolvers that I own, a true tack driver. It has a very nice trigger and its nicest feature is the spring mounted front sight. I can change sights within seconds and I do change the front sight depending on what I'm using the gun for.

Now, I also own several older Smiths, including a couple of models made back in the '60s, and I like them a lot. But, none of them have the flexibility of my 625 and none of them shoot better than the 625.
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  #121  
Old 03-17-2011, 11:02 PM
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I never buy new guns, I let some other sucker buy it for full price and get it when he gets tired of it and eats the depreciation. I will buy used lock,mim, etc etc etc, after the price is right. Are they as good as the 50's and 60's models? No. Fit, finish and smoothness are nowhere near what S&W used to include, but these days what is? We are midgets standing on the shoulders of giants.
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  #122  
Old 03-17-2011, 11:06 PM
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The "Old S&W vs. IL and MIM S&W" threads are gaining on the "9mm vs. .45" threads for the most dead horses beaten.......a close third is the "AK47 vs. M16".

I advise people who buy the hype that new S&W's are "garbage" try them for themselves. Never let other people decide for you, decide for yourself. I did, and I own 3 IL and MIM Smiths. I will own more, too.

For those who don't like the new IL and MIM S&W's, don't buy them. Problem solved. Just don't nag the people who do shoot them.
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  #123  
Old 03-18-2011, 10:57 PM
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I recently purchased a Night Guard 386. I sent it to Clark Custom Guns for a "Service Action Trigger Job. This is an outstanding firearm. I would stack it up against my thirty-five year old Model 19.
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  #124  
Old 03-18-2011, 11:21 PM
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I have a simple attitude: The IL is butt ugly regardless of revolver caliber. I will cheerfully pay the seller's premium to get a used (previously sold) S&W non-lock revolver. It's simple: "Just say no!"

Thank you, we will now return to the on-going debate.
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  #125  
Old 03-18-2011, 11:38 PM
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I have two post lock guns, a 5" 629 classic and a 25-13 in 45 colt, either is as good as any of my older Smith pistols..686 plus, model 625 also in 45 colt. Honestly, I don't like the lock either, but as far as quality goes, I don't see a difference in fit, function or performance, they are all top notch guns. My next will be a model 627, and I feel that Smith and Wesson are the best production revolvers out there (other than that judge thing) since colt quit the revolver buisness, I loved my old Anaconda. Anyway, I think Smith sells alot of revolvers, and they are still quality revolvers.
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  #126  
Old 03-18-2011, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by stantheman86 View Post

I advise people who buy the hype that new S&W's are "garbage" try them for themselves. Never let other people decide for you, decide for yourself. I did, and I own 3 IL and MIM Smiths. I will own more, too.

For those who don't like the new IL and MIM S&W's, don't buy them. Problem solved. Just don't nag the people who do shoot them.
I second that, buy what you want, unless you are buying for the CB's on here.
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  #127  
Old 03-19-2011, 10:00 AM
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I have bought approximately 30 new or mint cond revolvers over my 30 year police job. The only two I have kept were my Duty model 10 and wifeys Duty model 64. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a new one due to quality or the lock. Like car engines etc etc, I believe tolerances and design along with newer metal bonding make the newer smiths the best ever. The lock would be in it's own box however. That being said, the one new smith I would seriously enjoy owning is the x frame 500 in a 4 inch. Just and only just for the wow factor. Are the older smiths better buys, maybe, but it sure seems a lot of people are finding those great once in a lifetime buy, over and over again. I cant understand The rational of finding a nice older gun, putting it in a safe and not shooting/enjoying it. Even it the weapon doubled or trippled in value over next few years that honestly works out to a profit of a few tanks of gas and two or three large grocery shoppings. In summation, buy what you enjoy, don't let some faceless Internet site dictate your purchase, and enjoy your life.

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  #128  
Old 03-19-2011, 10:02 AM
lagavulin62 lagavulin62 is offline
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nothing new could possibly be discussed here but I just wish those that preach that there is nothing wrong with the newer guns(and I agree, I think my 686-6 has the best trigger of any smith I own), could understand that the real issue of many is just the appearance of the lock and the whole reasoning for it's origin. that what just drives me nuts. that one of the best gun makers ever caved in to that nonsense. that's all it is for me.

now let me veer off course sort of and ask a question.

since many of you know I just ordered the no-lock 442 but I was noticing on the locked version there seems to be another hole or mark of some sort just to the right of the "hole". I looked at some on gunbroker and so wondering what in the heck is that? is that just a photo problem? doesn't look like a hole per say, more like someone just knicked it maybe. I have seen this on several pictures. well on second look I think it does look like another hole. I would post a link to a gunbroker ad but I don't want the mods to get upset or give the impression I am sabatouging someone's auction. just do a gunbroker search for 442 and you will see some examples if as interested as I am. I don't think I have seen this in the stores, I would have remembered that.
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  #129  
Old 03-19-2011, 09:12 PM
Garybock Garybock is offline
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I'm relatively new to handguns but I've purchased 4 new Smith & Wessons in the past 15 months.
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  #130  
Old 03-19-2011, 10:08 PM
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Im new to the Smith enthusiast club myself. Just acquired my NYS pistol license about 8 months ago. I bought a brand new 686-6 with a 6" barrel. I have heard of people having problems with the IL (mainly here), but i have experienced zero problems with it myself. Granted, Im not a super high volume shooter either. Ive probably put about 500 rds down the pipe since i got it. I absolutely love my 686, the looks, the accuracy out of the box, and the rugged-ness it has. But on the other side of the coin, I do see some subtle differences in the shape of the frame where the hammer is compared to the older Smiths, like my Dad's model 19-3. And also, as said before, the case hardened hammer and triggers on the older models are a bit more attractive to the eye. My next Smith will be another brand new one....a 460! However, I havent/wont rule out some pre-loved, older models in the future...
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Old 03-19-2011, 10:17 PM
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The issue is mainly with the lightweight J frames, enjoy your 686. If to be used for SD, I would deactivate the lock or get a pre-lock, but that's only me.
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Old 03-19-2011, 11:32 PM
stantheman86 stantheman86 is offline
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If your using it for HD or CC, just take the whole lock assembly and flag out.

It's a tool, not a piece of jewelry.....some of the same people who hate the "ugly" IL also own Glocks, or worse yet, Springfield XD's.....

Some think the Ruger GP100 is ugly too, but I think it's a great design, so much so I own about a dozen of them. And there's no lock!
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  #133  
Old 03-20-2011, 02:40 AM
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Default I only buy new smiths

I have bought 3 new scandium alloy frame guns in the past 2 years all have locks. 2 are pc guns so probably dont have MIM parts but the 3rd is my M&P 340 and it is my main carry. I have dont mind the lock or the MIM parts on my 340. This is my CC piece and ive never felt insicure about the lock. Im not apreciative of it now but it might come in handy as my son gets older.

Personaly I like the scandium alloy guns much better than the stainless firearms. I also find the fit fininsh and acuracy to be much better than my old model 66. Due to economics I sold off all my other revolvers exept these three. I also plan to buy a 442 for redundancy sake once some of my custom knives sell.

Then again Im only 32 and I have the feeling many of the posters who hate the new offerings have been shooting for more than my 14 years. Once you get used to a particular firearm's weight and feel I could really see how something diffrent would be distastfull. Also with Smiths production numbers it is imposible to think their quality control hasnt suffered, (my 327pc has lesss than 2k rounds through it but has been back to smith three times, the others have been flawless.)

This is just my experiance and everones experiances are highly subjective.

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  #134  
Old 03-20-2011, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by lagavulin62 View Post
nothing new could possibly be discussed here but I just wish those that preach that there is nothing wrong with the newer guns(and I agree, I think my 686-6 has the best trigger of any smith I own), could understand that the real issue of many is just the appearance of the lock and the whole reasoning for it's origin. that what just drives me nuts. that one of the best gun makers ever caved in to that nonsense. that's all it is for me.

now let me veer off course sort of and ask a question.

since many of you know I just ordered the no-lock 442 but I was noticing on the locked version there seems to be another hole or mark of some sort just to the right of the "hole". I looked at some on gunbroker and so wondering what in the heck is that? is that just a photo problem? doesn't look like a hole per say, more like someone just knicked it maybe. I have seen this on several pictures. well on second look I think it does look like another hole. I would post a link to a gunbroker ad but I don't want the mods to get upset or give the impression I am sabatouging someone's auction. just do a gunbroker search for 442 and you will see some examples if as interested as I am. I don't think I have seen this in the stores, I would have remembered that.
I have several of the newer "J" frame guns, what you are seeing is a pin head, it must hold what I think is called the flag on the side of the hammer. Just another attractive part related to the IL guns... I'm looking at my 640 right now, I love that gun, not like my wife though... similar to my M&P's I think... but not quite as much, but then.... that could change too.. it's a S&W...
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  #135  
Old 03-20-2011, 10:07 AM
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does this count, just picked it up about 2 hours ago....

The March/April issue of American Handgunner has that on the front cover, would be a nice addition to the gun.
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  #136  
Old 03-20-2011, 10:58 AM
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Other than the lock(which I'm still on the fence about) I don't like the "hair triggers" on Smith's. I've picked up no less than a dozen at gun shops and shows and SA pull was way too light to be safe, IMO. Maybe a heaver mainspring would help with the faster lock time and help my fears of too light a trigger pull. Others may love it but, it scares me.
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  #137  
Old 03-20-2011, 11:26 AM
stoyan79 stoyan79 is offline
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+1

I just bought another one (442 no lock).

$360 out the door is hard to beat for a NIB little carry revolver.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh M. View Post
I bet they sell plenty of J frames at their current pricing - esp the no-lock models.
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  #138  
Old 03-20-2011, 11:50 AM
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The March/April issue of American Handgunner has that on the front cover, would be a nice addition to the gun.
Hey!!! that's my gun... I got it home, drooled a little more over it, cleaned it again and put it in the vault... Don't think I'll shoot it for now. I did finally shoot the 4" SW500 I bought... all I can say is ouch... I'm thinking of a family picture soon... something other than using my cell phone.. What up Ladder, looking like we won't have to worry about that Jets\Patriots matchup this year.... doesn't bother me.. more range time available on a Sunday afternoon!!! I want to hit the range today... but BRISTOL!!!! is here.. any bets on which Busch brother wins it..
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Old 03-20-2011, 12:14 PM
lagavulin62 lagavulin62 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo38gn View Post
I have several of the newer "J" frame guns, what you are seeing is a pin head, it must hold what I think is called the flag on the side of the hammer. Just another attractive part related to the IL guns... I'm looking at my 640 right now, I love that gun, not like my wife though... similar to my M&P's I think... but not quite as much, but then.... that could change too.. it's a S&W...

thanks turbo. ..........next time I need a new car gonna request one with an attractive dent on the front bumper. it doesn't matter much to me, I know mechanically the car will be sound. it's new!
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  #140  
Old 03-20-2011, 12:35 PM
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thanks turbo. ..........next time I need a new car gonna request one with an attractive dent on the front bumper. it doesn't matter much to me, I know mechanically the car will be sound. it's new!
Hahahaha... rotflmao... that was a good one... but thinking about it... not a good comparison, but a good line none the less!!! ... now if you had said something about having deer warning thingys on the frt bumper....
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Old 03-20-2011, 02:06 PM
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Hey!!! that's my gun... I got it home, drooled a little more over it, cleaned it again and put it in the vault... Don't think I'll shoot it for now. I did finally shoot the 4" SW500 I bought... all I can say is ouch... I'm thinking of a family picture soon... something other than using my cell phone.. What up Ladder, looking like we won't have to worry about that Jets\Patriots matchup this year.... doesn't bother me.. more range time available on a Sunday afternoon!!! I want to hit the range today... but BRISTOL!!!! is here.. any bets on which Busch brother wins it..
Since Dale Jarrett retired, I'm rootin' for Jeff Burton. Jets....mutts??? Coach guaranteed a Super Bowl.
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  #142  
Old 03-20-2011, 02:08 PM
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+1

I just bought another one (442 no lock).

$360 out the door is hard to beat for a NIB little carry revolver.
I paid 425 for a no-lock 442 in late 2009, then they lowered the prices on the J's. May have to get a spare, though.
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Old 03-20-2011, 05:21 PM
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Since Dale Jarrett retired, I'm rootin' for Jeff Burton. Jets....mutts??? Coach guaranteed a Super Bowl.
did you mean Todd Jarrett?
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Old 03-20-2011, 07:26 PM
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Since Dale Jarrett retired, I'm rootin' for Jeff Burton. Jets....mutts??? Coach guaranteed a Super Bowl.
and I quarantee if I shoot enough rounds.... I'll hit the bullseye...
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Old 03-25-2011, 01:58 PM
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Default Just started again

Back in the 80's I was fresh out of High school and a decent job, Started buying S&W handgun. Had a collection of a bakers dozen, then came marriage and the kids, Put a grinding halt to buying those toys,, Now the kids are grown up, then the Divorce. So set back again and now in the late 2010, I was able to start buying again, I love the older handgun and have started rebuilding the collection that I had years ago. Slowly adding to the collection and now I purchased a few of the Airweights,
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  #146  
Old 03-25-2011, 02:58 PM
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Welcome back Bob.
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  #147  
Old 03-25-2011, 09:00 PM
jdickson397 jdickson397 is offline
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Am I wrong but I thought the previous British owners of S&W were the ones who signed a consent order with the feds agreeing to the internal lock feature? If that is so, what is the beef so many have with the current owners who have produced a host of new innovative models, brought out a great 1911, and make special runs of classic revolvers? I just bought a new production Model 22 Model of 1950. It is a quality piece with a fantastic case colored finish and well worth the money.

I perfectly understand the desirability of older models(I own several) for collecting as well as shooting purposes but I can find no fault with the new models. I wish the internal lock wasn't there but is it really that big of a deal? Instead of expending all this negative energy about the internal lock I think we should support this great American manufacturing company and be glad they are still making their guns in the US.
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Old 03-25-2011, 09:19 PM
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I will be on the prowl for a new 642 real soon. I would like to also get one of those 627 snubbies. But if a nice snub nosed 66 or 19 come my way, I could be arm twisted to jump on one of those first!
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  #149  
Old 03-25-2011, 09:32 PM
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I want a 642 pro pp with night sights... definitely want it. For what its worth, as new as I can get it. IL or no IL.
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Old 03-25-2011, 09:43 PM
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Keep buying the older ones to shoot, parts are hard to find now, a hammer rivet for the firing pins are far and few along with the firing pin. Barrels are hard to find and when you do they are $150 bucks for a worn out model. Every year it is getting harder to find stuff. The factory didn't have any extra hands for a 686, I found one at Brownells at a higher price. the parts for the 27-2 aren't being made anymore - when they are gone - they are gone. Think a little bit, what year is it for the cut off for free repairs ?????????? What models were built befor that are in trouble of being sent to the scrap yard because they can't be repaired. I have a target model 32-20 built in 1900 that less than 100 made, who has a barrel for it???????? Those that have one of 200 made that just wear then out makes the new one in my safe go up in price every year. the old ones should be a treasure item to hand down, but the kids won't want a worn out piece that they can't get parts for. Buy new and save the older ones for the great, great, grandson that will be in the laser age being able to shoot a 9mm 547 that you saved for him. Now that is being COOL. Sorry for the rant, keep on buying. BUY, BUY, BUY what you want, before they are gone .
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