People have opinions, that's what makes us human.

For the most part, Forum members LOVE their S&Ws. Most of us old pistoleros HATE the lock. Most of us prefer older to newer, as quality has decreased over time (like all other mass produced items). There was a time when Colt made the finest DA revolver in the country, the Python. Colt no longer makes DA revolvers. IMHO, S&W now makes the finest DA revolvers. They are followed by Ruger, and trailed FAR behind by Taurus. Can you have a problem with a S&W ? ? ABSOLUTELY ! ! Will it be remedied by the factory to your satisfaction? In the VAST majority of instances, YES ! ! Of course there are exceptions, and these lead to most of the "complaints" you read here. Members come here to vent, seek solace and guidance, and sometimes to RAVE about their S&Ws. It's like this on every forum. Forums devoted to the lower quality weapons have more negative posts. Don't get discouraged. This is a fine forum, loaded with knowledgeable and helpful people. I've been shooting over 50 yrs, and I learn something new every time I visit. After a while, you'll sort out which members have valuable input, and who the few chronic cry babies are.....

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'Nam 1968-69.DAV,VFW,NRA Inst.

Perhaps morale is down since S&W:

-Doesn't have their own gunsmith's assemble the guns. An outside gunsmith is brought in and paid "per gun" they build. So the more they build in less time the more $$ they get. Quality goes to hell.

-Customer service reps just say whatever appeases the caller whether they know what they are talking about or not.

-S&W replacing PC parts (forged) with MIM parts. I was fortunate that my request for a full refund suddenly made them find a forged hammer/trigger lying around.

-They still make the best revolver but making more money has put quality/integrity in the back seat.

Naaaa, I can tell you first hand Morale is up at S&W

I've spoken with a few of their gunsmiths in person, never saw anything like what you described about not having any, could swear he said he worked for Smith & Wesson..

Customer service reps are pretty darn good, sometimes one will mess up, but then when they have to deal with the occassional moron or free-loader, they get painted into a corner..

Glad to hear you were so well taken care of, with them finding a forged hammer for you, sounds like you really intimidated them.

Also nice to see you realize they do build a nice gun, I've found them to put quality and integrity right up front, but that's just my experience.

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Jack C

donviera, how do you know this for a fact, may I ask ? ? I find this to be
VERY DISTURBING............

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'Nam 1968-69.DAV,VFW,NRA Inst.

Which two? Now I'm upset with riddles...

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NRA Benefactor Member

My gunsmith stated they are not "actual" S&W employees. Perhaps I misunderstood him. They are paid per gun, not an hourly wage. That would explain the many (for an S&W) small issues with a factory gun.

-My gunsmith said though they are stil the best revolvers you can buy and I agree, but these companies have really compromised quality over true S&W quality that we used to see.

-S&W is the only revolver I have ever bought (total of 3) but I had them all tuned/timing checked before I even shot them.

Now that I read this, it seems you really do have a great gunsmith. You can always tell the great ones.. they're the ones that pick themselves up on the pedestal by knocking someone off..... verbally. Just doing good work is not enough...

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Jack C

OK enough thread drift-let's get back to the topic at hand.........Okra.
Fried with corn meal is fine and I love it like I love fried catfish. But don't turn up yer nose as smothered okra with tomaters and ham chunks-and hell, throw in a little corn too.

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Forum consigliere

Ya I agree.... Mathew.. hey, is that your date of birth... under your name..

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Jack C

One thing that probably makes a lot of newer members feel a little downtrodden-they post about the acquisition of a nice 629-6, 60-18, or anything else made after MIM and locks, then some old school curmudgeons beat them down about their purchase. Man-they are still buying S&W's-very good ones at that.

Now ain't that the truth... I used to have a mechanic work for me that was forever crying about the new cars, now if that was a carbureted, 4 speed on the floor, without that new fangled computor.... now that's when they made cars... Hey, I grew up with those cars, but sorry, they don't shake a stick to todays standards.. and that my friend are the facts..

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Jack C

First off let’s get one thing straight. Any boiled vegetable is disgusting and has had all the health cooked right out of it. But if you fry anything it makes it better. Fry in lard or veg shortening either way doesn’t cook out the health but will add some good calories to burn through. If you over indulge that isn’t the fry cook’s problem…

Second, I still think Smith and Wesson make a quality gun. I think they are doing whatever they can to keep any little piece of market share and that is where the polymer guns and the mass produced cookie cutter feel to some of their guns comes from. I think they still get a bit of a free pass on some of their quality control problems when we blast someone else for the same issues. And I fully believe that some of the issues people have is by expecting too much from their guns. Just like I’m pretty sure Corbon and Buffalo Bore have put a few S&W guns into early graves. Was that S&W’s fault, the ammo company, or the owner for using such hot ammo? I’m sure .38-44 ammo sent some Model 10’s to early graves for the same reasoning. And I find it funny that even in a recession they have trouble keeping up with demand. Are the mad attempt to keep up with demand, other companies price cutting, component cost increasing, customer service vs. share holder happiness, and the need to keep up GMROI in the green to keep the business running costing them these negative postings? That’s a definite maybe.

Man that is true.

All you need to do is get stuck behind one of the old muscle cars or ratty old pickup, in a traffic jam and the gas rich exhaust stench is enough to be glad they don't make 'em like that anymore.

Sometimes "new and improved" is.

Ss

Well said Bob.. I can buy that.

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Jack C

I'm going to pick up my new (to me) Model 19 4" P&R this week. I couldn't be happier!

I remember the first gun forum I joined maybe 8 years ago was Marlin. It was finally dumped. That was one big bitch forum. Guys calling others names, insulting their choice of firearms, etc. I'm on other forums and I just figure it's the internet, with no names, and no faces. Some choose to run a muck and cause trouble or complain. I think this forum has very knowledgeable people with a primary focus on S&W firearms. For me, I've read more negativity towards CS or the IL (internal lock on newer revolvers). Whether it's S&W or pick a name, it seems S&W CS can be good or bad depending on who answers the phone. You'll get use to us and you'll know who's honest or a first time buyer who thinks he knows guns. Welcome to the world of internet gun forums.

Either with a key loc or no key loc i'm happy. Is that negative?

Right now the people in the world are generally on the edge. It shows on most of the forums too. Plus too much snow and cold weather this year and its going to be even worse next winter till the mini ice age in 2038. I never have cabin fever i just reload. Bill

I've been shooting S&Ws for half a century. Sure, I love the oldies, but the best S&W I've ever owned--for its purpose--is the new Pro Series 637-2 PowerPort; it's accurate, light weight yet light recoiling with Hornady CD +Ps (and a pair of Pachs), very concealable, rust resistant, windage adjustable, and has a sweet out of the box DA and SA. Which oldie can match that?
Couldn't care less about the IL because I didn't buy it to make love to it; kinda like a pretty girl with a freckle I knew in high school, or having to eat fried okra because my wife's a southerner. Even the rabbit under the shed won't eat it ;-), but I'll take that trade-off anytime. And don't tell me that MIM parts can't produce a slick action, especially not in a J-Frame; that's a crock.
The new Model 63 three-inch is also the best rimfire I've ever owned--for its purpose as a handy, tough, accurate, rust resistant, eight-shot, camp/fun/working .22. The old 63s, as good looking as they are, can't match that. (But, in truth, my 1968 Model 35 six-inch is still tops as a trail .22, even though it's susceptible to scratching and rusting if abused and probably won't stand up to a steady diet of Stingers like the new 63 will. Another trade- off.)
So when they bitch away at the new stuff, I kinda enjoy it and just smile because it's good to see their passion for S&W. From time to time you can't help but get a new perspective and learn a lot, too.
Welcome to the Forum, Ross.

I havent been here long myself and Ill tell you what out weighs the negative, when you see a man/woman thats down and out and the people that step up to help them financially or just with positive reassurance... And that to me is awesome!! Ive had the opportunity to be on forums of different types and Ive never seen that... Hats off to all those great people on this forum!!

Its not only the forums were negativity can be read/seen. Ever watch the way people are driving nowadays too? Could 2012 and the prediction of the end of the world or life as we know it have something to do with this extra pressure waiting to explode at anytime? If not whats causing this no respect for fellow man. Just try to cross a busy street and its like there all waiting and wanting to hit us. I can't even walk to my mail box to get my mail without someone flying by me. They don't even slow down. I drive in my car to get the mail across the street now because there trying to hit me and i'm disabled already so i'm a slow moving target anyhoo. God forbid me if i walk out there. Its way beyond the negativity now. Where's the love / respect for fellow man nowadays? People who don't even know you want to hurt you. Its sad and its getting even worse as 2012 approaches too. Bill

BTW; I always seen things go crazy while pumping gas on a full moon night as a kid. Lately its on regular nights too. Everything is going bonkers.

I've seen worse forums than this one and this is one of the better ones too. The guys on the ruger forum are like sharks waiting to attack you. They snap on anything wrong or they don't like thats said. I try to stay away from there.

I want to add to this that if S&W either hired the same kind of people or sent them to the same school as the customer service people at RCBS, Lee, or Dillon then they wouldn’t catch such flack on forums. I have had issues with the three listed companies and they have been a joy to deal with. No negative comments about their attitudes, replies, or the service rendered. I tried to make a thread about the latest attitude I received from S&W and my thread was closed. I guess I failed to make my point. The half dozen times I have had contact with them over the years were all at best five out of ten in how I felt afterwards. And I don’t mean they didn’t give me free stuff. I have both called and emailed asking what the part number is that I need to replace the red ramp sight on my 629 to a Partridge type sight. The part number that I was told is for the quick change plunger type and not the pinned in place type that I specifically requested. Either they told me wrong or I am supposed to break out the Dremel tool. I’m sure I could have returned it but that isn’t the point. I figure that is the kind of issue that the OP is talking about as I’m sure some people would have blown up with electrons scathing their service received. My additional 2 cents.