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Old 04-06-2011, 12:10 PM
amazingflapjack amazingflapjack is offline
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Default 610 charge hole size

Hey everyone-I recently purchased a 610-2, 6 1/2 inch revolver, and I have been seeing some dificulty getting the cases to eject after firing. I am using a 10mm load of either 170 gr or 185 gr LSWC's that are hard cast, and that measure 401. Initially, I thought I had used too hot a charge, and believe that was the case. Since then, I have reduced the load, most recently to 6.5gr of Unique, and while there is a definite improvement, they are still stuck and require some tapping with a leather mallot to remove. It ocurred to me that the cylinder charge holes may be designed for the typical "auto" round, something wearing a jacket, and might be a little tight for us lead heads. I put one of the 170 gr slugs in from the loading side, and it will not drop through. I atempted the put the round in the firing side of the cylinder, and it will not enter. I have used my micrometer-but accuracy that way isn't the best-and everything I got was .40 or less. Do you think these charge holes are too tight for lead? I do have some factory .40 S&W FMJ's that I could try (I just realized)-the .40's in lead that I have loaded for my Browning Hi-Power have been hard to remove as well, but not as hard as the 10mm's, given their shorter length. It's a beautiful gun, accurate as well, I just need to figure out what to feed it. If anyone has a load suggestion, I would also appreciate that. Thanks, Flapjack
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Old 04-06-2011, 12:27 PM
Broker50 Broker50 is offline
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Bullets should not drop through the throat of the cylinder, but should push through with a moderate amount of pressure. Sounds like your cylinder needs a thorough cleaning, & may benefit from having the chambers polished.
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Old 04-06-2011, 01:28 PM
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I presume that you purchased this revolver used.

It is not uncommon for folks to shoot 40S&W ammunition out of the 610 revolvers, as you have. When this is done a ring of crud forms just forward of the 40S&W case mouth. If it is not properly and completely cleaned before you fire a 10MM Auto or a 10MM Magnum the cases will be difficult to extract. Even if the round is just standard pressure, the slightest of rings will hinder case extraction.

I would look here first
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Old 04-06-2011, 01:53 PM
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broker 50 and SAA-I had completed those tasks, as I should have included. After cleaning, and pollishing with a dremel and a mild compound, I fired the 10MM's, with no 40's at all this go around, so the way is getting straighter, and the gate narrower. The lead bullet will not enter the forcing cone end of the cylinder. What's next? Flapjack
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Old 04-06-2011, 02:11 PM
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If I understand you correctly, it sounds like your loads may be too long in OAL. Cylinder throats should be at or slighty below bullet diameter. The forcing cone is the back of the barrel. When you say they're stuck, are you referring to the fired case, or the bullet in the loaded round? If it's the bullet stuck, your OAL is too long. If it's the fired case stuck, more cleaning & polishing until it doesn't stick. Gor polishing chambers, I like a proper size bore mop on a cordless drill, with something like Mother's polish, or white auto rubbing compound.
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Old 04-06-2011, 02:28 PM
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Broker-50-no-as I said-the cases are hard to extract after firing, and the charge holes have been thoroughly cleaned and pollished. I am re-cleaning, and I will try the bore mop method you suggested, thanks Flapjack.

Last edited by amazingflapjack; 04-06-2011 at 02:32 PM.
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Old 04-06-2011, 02:36 PM
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Good luck, let us know how it turns out.
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Old 04-06-2011, 06:28 PM
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Default progress report

OK-I took one of those Hoppes tornado spring looking bore things, hooked it to my drill and really let it work. Then I got a bore mop that would just go in to the charge holes, put some Mothers mag pollish on it and applied more pollish for each hole. Durring both processes I got a lot of black gunk from the bores, this after an extensive cleaning. Out to the range and back. took 30 rounds that I loaded a couple of tenths lighter-6.1 or 6.2 apx. [I] also took 6 factory 40 S&W FMJ's to try. There was some improvement-I was able to get the 10mm's out just hitting the ejector with my hand-so not nearly as stuck-but stuck just the same. The .40 FMJ's came out smoothly, the way you would want them to. What's next? Thanks, Flapjack
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Old 04-06-2011, 06:36 PM
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I believe you're on the right track, just more cleaning. They're hard to find, but a SS chamber brush may do the trick for you. By it improving from the cleaning, & the 40 S&W ejecting OK, makes me think it's been shot quite a bit with the shorter cases, & has developed a sticky spot in front of them. I really believe thorough clening a few more times will take care of your problem. I assume this is not a defense gun, so I would just shoot & clean a few times, & see how it goes.
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Old 04-06-2011, 06:41 PM
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Can't tell where you are, whether you have access close to a well equipped gunsmith, but if you do, hand turning a chamber reamer might be the quickest solution. Just a thought.
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Old 04-06-2011, 07:17 PM
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I'm in north central Florida, and I'm not aware of a competent gunsmith. I usually send them to S&W when I don't get the results I need. But, what you said about the previous owner using primarily .40S&W ammo in it seems a good posibility. Even after the reaming I gave those charge holes, there seems to be a faint, blurry line, almost like a different degree of pollish to that part of the charge holes. Some holes are more pronounced than others, but it is visable when holding the gun in a firing position with the cylinder open using a bright LED light from the muzzle end. I am wondering if using a more agressive polishing compound would break that bead? I am down to 5.9 to 6.0 grains for my next step down, but somehow I don't think that's it, and who wants to shoot minimum loads all the time? NOT ME. The bore mop I used was really packed in there, and I am amazed that there is still a line of demarkation. Oh, and my MOAL is 1.125, by the book. these LSWC's are set all the way back to where just the barest edge of the bullet body is visable, so I think you are on the right track. What do you think? Thanks, Flapjack
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Old 04-06-2011, 07:43 PM
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I think you will get it cleaned out eventually. Don't think you need to drop charge weights, that's kinda' the point of 10mm, BIG DOG loads. I shoot 10mm, but in a 1006 & Kimber 1911. Great cartridge.
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Old 04-06-2011, 08:26 PM
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Default moon clips

maybe I missed it but I don't see you mentioning moon clips. The 610 was designed to work with the clips although mine every other one I have fired/worked on will allow rounds to be fired without them. The problem with doing so is the firing pin strike forces the round forward into the chamber until it meets firm resistance and the primer ignites. When the case mouth expands it is too far forward and causes extraction issues. Try moon clips and see if this doesn't help your problem.
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Old 04-06-2011, 08:37 PM
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Default Viva Le Moon Clip

Yeah-thanks for the post-I'm moon clippin it-I just wish this thing ran like my 25's or 625! Thanks, Flapjack
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Old 04-06-2011, 08:42 PM
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I have to ask a really stupid question here and that is are you using range brass either with or without moonclips? A problem in using range brass is that sometimes brass from a bottom feeder that does not fully support the cartridge is bulged and can stick. A real problem in a 646.

Last edited by scott625b; 04-06-2011 at 08:44 PM.
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Old 04-06-2011, 09:13 PM
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Better define "North Central Florida" for us.

I will be in Deland the 16th and 17th to get some projects done. I also have access to a 10MM finishing reamer
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Old 04-06-2011, 09:37 PM
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625-no, brand new top brass in new moons, but very good info, thanks.

SAA-Ocala, thanks, Flapjack.
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Old 04-06-2011, 10:18 PM
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Flapjack, If you don't overdo it, a strip of 320 WetorDry in a slotted cleaning tip spun where the fouling is may be a quick fix. But really do not get too agressive!
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Old 04-06-2011, 11:22 PM
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Broker-I took the bore mop I used earlier and wrapped some 1500 wet and dry around it, kind of like we used to clean out wheel cylinders way back, got it wet, put it on the drill, and worked it. I went around twice, and changed the paper for each hole, and then stopped to give them all an even harder look. There were a couple that needed some more work, and after I got them all looking the same, and to my satisfaction, I took some Meguires #2 light cut compound and worked them over with that. Now, a loaded .45 Long Colt will free fall right through the bore holes! Naw-just kidding, but it's mighty shiny in there, so I'm gonna try to get by the range tomorrow and send some of the same load down range and see what we've got. I think I'll take something else to shoot this time, just in case.

SAA- I appreciate the offer-let me see what happens, and I'll report back here. Thank You Everyone. Flapjack
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Old 04-06-2011, 11:39 PM
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Sounds like you may have taken care of it. Good luck, & let us all know how it works out.
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Old 04-08-2011, 07:20 PM
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OK-we got it. Broker 50-I took your suggestion in your next to last post. I took a large plastic slotted patch holder and experimented with some 220 wet and dry-(all I had, up to a much lighter grit), and I was tired of fooling with it-got several thin folds and the length of them so that when I wrapped them around the patch tool in a kind of backward "S" it filled the charge hole, but not tightly, or even close to that, so that I had kind of a flapper hone. Still had to do about half of them more than once, until I saw a consistant surface all the way through the cylinder bore. After completeing that last night, I loaded some more 170 gr LSWC's over abour 6.2 gr of Unique, and put them in moon clips. Then, today, went to the range, and immediately fired 6 into the burm, and out they came like a slide trombone! Then I set up a target, and checked for accuracy-very good, so Praise The Lord! Thank you everyone who contributed, especially broker 50. Thanks!, Flapjack
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Old 04-08-2011, 08:35 PM
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Kinda' like a flapper was what I was suggesting. Glad that took care of it, now enjoy shooting it!
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Old 04-08-2011, 11:33 PM
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I will, thanks again. Flapjack
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1911, 610, browning, cartridge, colt, ejector, fouling, gunsmith, hi-power, kimber, leather, micrometer, model 625, primer, saa

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