Obviously a .45 is quicker for CQB and most defensive situations. I always carry my .45 even when I have the .500 in the woods. Does the .500 have a tactical role in regards to barrier penetration? Will it go through stuff that other pistols wont?

There have been more home invasions then I can believe in recent months. Seems like criminals have been wearing body armor more and more. I talked to a PD buddy and he said they purchase vests off ebay or steal them. I know of more than a few instances where the perps had used armor on.

It had me wondering if a .500 S&W out of any barrel length would penetrate armor.

I wouldnt carry this revolver on a regulat basis but do carry in the woods and keep it near my bed. I switched from a shotgun to an assault rifle for home defense bc of suggestions from pd buddies. The .500 smith would be handy if someone was kicking my door down and i knew it would go through stolen armor.

Due to the shape and surface area, it's unlikey to penetrate, but still very likely to KILL. The concussion to the chest would probably stop the heart. Think of laying flat on your back and having someone drop a bowling ball on your chest from a decent height. That would be the effect. At a minimum, I would expect broken ribs and possible internal injuries.

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Chris
SWCA #2243 SWHF #292

I would say that a 275gr Barnes XPB solid copper, spitzer bullet at around 2000 fps, something the .500 is capable would in fact defeat any normal body armor that didn't have a trauma plate in it.

And as was said, the shock to the chest area would be very significant.

Worrying about using these guns in a tactical environment is, in my opinion, a waste of time. The recoil is too heavy for quick followup shots and the muzzle blast extreme w/o hearing protection. Don

+1 on the previous two posts. The blunt force trauma of a .500 round hitting a human target at close range would be considerable, if not fatal, even with armor. That said, if someone was kicking your door down, a 12 gauge pump filled with slugs would probably be a better option in terms of speed, follow up, and control. Either way, .500 or 12 gauge, the individual on the opposite side of the door would be experiencing some pain.

It might penetrate body armor. But, since you like the .45 ACP, just use it. If you are concerned about body armor, just aim at the intersection of the legs. Gut shot hits lots of structure as well as veins, arteries and of course the spine and hips are in play. JMHO. Sincerely. bruce.

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<><

Use what you can shoot accurately and practice the old Mozambique Drill; two in the chest, one in the head.

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Steve
NJ State Trooper (rtd)

I shot a 350 grain Seira hollowpoint through 1/2" steel and into 10 inches of Georgia hard clay that the plate was laying against. Body armor can't be that tough....... Can it?

I'll second that. IMO there is a much simple answer, that is to shoot for the head. However, in my case that's a rather easy solution, I have a rather small house and the longest shot I'd have to make is 22 feet.

+1 for that, IMO .500 has little "tactical" application and was designed for large game hunting, not self defense.

Ironically, you would need to go in a completely opposite direction if you want a handgun that penetrates body armor. The 7.62 Tokarev will penetrate some types of soft armor, and the 5.7 FN rounds that civilians can't get is designed to penetrate body armor. Light, small, very fast bullets will zip through body armor.......think of the 5.7 as a razor sharp needle, and the .500 as a heavy sledgehammer.

If you are worried about home intruders wearing body armor,you might want to use something like an AR15 or something in 5.56-.223 for home defense. When I was in the Army I got my hands on some old soft Kevlar body armor panels, rated for 9mm. We took these "expired" panels to a range and shot them with 5.56 and it went through like paper. I can't imagine bad guys, in general, having good enough body armor to stop a 5.56, like ceramic plates. That stuff is expensive and hard to get. BG's wearing a vest are more likely hoping to stop rounds from a homeowner with a 9mm or .38. Hit a guy wearing armor with a .357, or a 12 ga. and he's gonna be out of it.

If you use a .500 for home defense you better keep a rag next to the gun, so you can mop up the blood that will be pouring out your ears if you touch off a .500 inside a house. I also hope there are no neighbors and you live alone.

Lots of foreign counter-terror units use .357 revolvers for close up room clearing, because even a bad guy with good body armor is gonna be out of the fight after a .357 center mass. And the muzzle blast and recoil is not extreme with a .357, and it gives good close up stopping power in tight confines. The French GIGN makes extensive use of .357 revolvers and list Manurhin and Ruger GP100 .357's as weapons they use. They need revolvers this tough because they do a lot of training with the .357's. The Navy SEALS also used S&W 66 and 686 wheelguns, I wish someone with info would chime in as to whether the SEALS or any other US special ops units use .357 revolvers anymore.

I bought my 500S&W with zero tactical application in mind.

Target fun and a chance to kill a whitetail with it is all I plan on.

Home protection....no way....not with that muzzle blast. I'd be deafened on the first shot. How's that help your tactical situation....low light vision gone and now deaf.

No thanks.

There are much better home defense guns.

Nevermind the garbage in movies like "Red" where John Malkovich fires a 4" .500 with one hand like it's a .38.......

For indoor use, I'll take a 45ACP over a 357 any day........the blast of a 357 is substantially worse than any 45 load I know of. Maybe a 357 with a 180 grain bullet wouldn't be as bad, but the 125-grain stuff is just brutal indoors. On my training days at the PD indoor range I wore both plugs AND muffs, and it was still loud enough to feel every molecule in your body jump when they went off.

I think enough opinions have been given to give you your answer. And I agree with the previous posts except for the use of .357 indoors. Answer? .38 +P 135 grain Gold Dots are an exceptional round imo, produce much less flash signature and over pressure than any magnum loading, and give excellent penetration and expansion. Also use Critical Defense loads from Hornady.

But back to the topic at hand...I think from your OP that you already have more superior tools for the job at hand, namely being a 5.56 rifle for the intended role. Unless Bob Burglar is willing to shell out the $900 or so for high grade ceramic plate inserts the most you're likely to encounter will be kevlar only. 5.56 will go through that like a sheet of paper. Sight your rifle for "up close and personal" POA, go for groin or head shots, and I think you'd have 99.9% of situations covered, armor or no.

If a 5.56-.223 rifle like an AR15 with 30-round mags isn't enough for the job for home defense........you must live in a war zone Are you on the Texas border or something, where you may need to fight off "coyotes" with body armor and AK's attacking in platoon strength?

Might want to apply for a Class III and set up an M60 in the window with some sandbags

The .38 +P's like Critical Defense, Golden Saber or TAP are a vast improvement over the standard HP +P's from years ago......more than adequate for any threat with 2 legs and they are made with flash suppressing additives in the powder to lessen the "flash blindness" from shooting in the dark. They're pricy, but it's not range ammo.......

I have a .500 in the 4 inch persausion. I've shot a lot of different things with it and I don't see how it couldn't penetrate our vest. The things hell on down range targets! I carry it at times when out in the mountains or desert and if need be I wouldn't feel the least bit bad about using it for self defence out in that area. In a populated area? I think not.

FYI, I have fired every load we make in 500 Mag from the 8" gun and none of them penetrated a level 2A body armor. The impact would probably kill you though after seeing the indent in the ground from it.

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Captain

I've had a pair of 500s for a number of years, one of the early 8 3/8" guns, and a 4" from when those first came out, I think 2003 and 2005 respectively. I've shot both a lot, some factory ammo but mostly 'factory duplication' handloads, have chronographed both guns with factory and my loads, and have hunted and taken game with the 8", so I think I have a fairly good sense of how they perform. I don't use them for "tactical" or home defense situations. I do carry the 4" with me when I go into the backcountry hiking or huckleberry picking as I live in griz country. The load I ultimately settled on is a factory duplication (or close) loading of the Cor-Bon 440 grainer. I use a CastPerformance 440gr bullet over a hefty charge of H110/W296. It moves at over 1500 fps out of the long gun, 200 fps slower out of the 4".....which is actually a 3" with a 1" comp.

Seems that the earlier comments in this thread make some sense, both the pros and the cons of the 500. I do find that it has capabilities that no other commercially available handgun (and quite a few rifles, for that matter) offers in terms of terminal ballistics and pure destructive and knock-down power. When one of the 440s hits something, it reacts dramatically, exponentially moreso than, say, a 44 Magnum hitting the same thing, whatever it is.

Another good take on my line of thought. I've done side by side comparisons with a .308 Win and the .500 and the .500 makes it look pathetic despite full loads having similar energies. I didn't compare steel penetration for a couple reasons, shooting metal at close range is a bad idea and velocity is king when it comes to steel, so the .308 would be a clear winner, no need to demonstrate that. I also think that with similar shot placement, the .500 is a FAR better choice on large and dangerous game. Don

Would love to see pics of this

Exactly! XTrooper nailed it. Practice this drill EVERY time I go to the range. 2 COM and one to the mouth.

As others have mentioned a shotgun with OO buck, or slugs is a way more effective weapon than the 500 for SD. The .38 balls will penetrate a couple layers of drywall to take whomever is behind it down.

Saying that, I would not want to be on the receiving end any of 500 round with a breast plate on.

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V/R
Roger / SG

What area of the country is this?

I don't see why an LEO would recommend using an AR-type rifle as HD. I bet those bullets that didn't hit the BG would be in your neighbors house, or your kids bedrooms.

I prefer a shotgun. Maybe it won't penetrate body armor, but that blast to their chest is going to knock them backwards with 6 or more follow-up shots to come. At least one or two of those shots should be at the legs or head which have no protection.

After that the handguns come-out to stand above them while the police are on the way.

I go Trap Shooting a LOT with my wife because it is fun and it teaches her exactly how to handle our shotguns. To me, they are the best home defense weapons unless you live in a war zone.

And yes, I have two AK's in the safe, but they are BEHIND the shotguns. Not a good thing to use in my town for home defense, I like my kids and neighbors.

Shotguns will penetrate enough dry wall to put many at risk. I prefer the Ak 47 because I have 40 rounds that I can put center mass in a very short time.

We are not allowed that many rounds in semi-autos in my communist state of New Jersey, 15 rounds is it.

I'll stick with my shotguns, safer for my neighbors should they need to be used. I'd LOVE to use the AK's I have, but that could lead to bad results...........

No, it will not. .500 shot directly into a II NIJ 06' vest will NOT penetrate.

Well, if the home invaders are dressing up for the invasion, it's time to use a rifle, don't you think?

The 500 will turn your inner ear to jelly if you must shoot inside the house. I shutter to think of it.

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NRA Benefactor Member

Mossberg pump, 18 inch, 7+1 shot, Winchester supreme elite 12 gauge shells, 1oz rifled slug + 3 oo Buck pellets buffered shot. Kinda pricey at 13.39 for 10 shells but I think they will hurt. Is their no calling timeout to put on earmuffs?

I've done some penetration testing with both 556 and 12 guage on drywall. It's surprising how fast a standard, non steel core 556 will get stopped, I suppose it is from not having that much mass. Additionally, 12 guage buckshot will go a heck of a long way. I keep #6's in mine at the house, backed up by 1 round of buckshot at the end. Might have a lot of drywall work to do, but it ain't goin' far.....

I recall back when S&W first announced the release of the first 500s, I'm thinking it was '02 or thereabouts, there was some hue and cry from the banners in Congress, Chuckie Schumer, et al, who decried the fact that this gun was going to turn into a real protective-vest-penetrating-cop-killer. Whether they had any scientific facts or research to back up their claims is anyone's guess, probably dubious, but their clamor had the effect of sending me to my local gun-shop to pick up the first one I could get my hands on! At the time I didn't think I had any use for the gun, just wanted one to protest the protesters! Turns out to have been one of the most used and loved handguns I've ever owned. Thanks, Chuck!!!!

Being hit in the chest will a 500gr bullet at 1425 ft/sec is the same as being hit in the chest by a 16 lb bowling ball at ~64 mph...toast, penetration or not.

Interesting isn't it that the butt---- Schumer is useful for something? I bought a second Model 500 for the same reasons you bought your first and like you, really enjoy mine. Don

I think I would have to third that, this gun fired inside a house would be defining, makes my eardrums hurt just thinking about it, and unless you were useing downloaded target ammo, a rd could go through a BG and your side wall then into your neighbors house

My friend's daughter did a junior high science project on bullet kinetic energy and body armor. I donated the back panel of my first vest, a 1981 Second Chance Y-Model level 2A. She shot it with quite a few different handgun rounds. The 500 Mag (I don't know which factory load) didn't penetrate. Oddly, one .22 LR round did.

i use a 12 gauge pump loaded with slugs and my backup/carry is a 586 s&w.6 inch. a slug or two to the face mask will if nothing else break the neck..i always go for head shots.crotch.i may even try and blow the gun hand off.been shooting for over 45 years.ex leo and navy vet.with all the body armor,just shoot for the most unprotected areas(if given the chance)my mossberg 500 tactical with 00 buck/slugs will blow a verts head off at close range,mask or no mask.if still moving a 357 mag will finish the job.have a welding helmet in case a flash grenade comes in.it will cancel out the flash and really surprise the always over confident.then attack.it scares the hell out of them.they believe you will cut and try to run.not me full on attack.but then i love the adrenalin rush.born free.and plan on dying free if that is what it is to be

If you want body armor penetration $200+ TT will do it just fine or a $1000 FiveSeven and I guess FN57 won't leave you deaf when shot indoors like 500SW would. Just saying...

The S&W 500 is great for smashing watermelons and taking big game but as a personal defense weapon it's not nearly as practical as some other big bores. I've see a few 500's shot on the range and find it hard to believe someone would waste $2 a bullet firing at a paper target and flinching much of the time. That would buy you 50 rounds of .22's and a lot more accuracy.

You are right on it. I am not arguing one way or the other that using a large handgun for protection is a good idea, this is a academic look at the question. A 500 would not be the ideal choice for penetration. Vests are more effective the more surface area of the vest that is contacted and more velocity with a similarly constructed bullet will generally give more penetration. A .50 caliber projectile will contact not twice the surface of a .22 caliber round but closer to 5 times the amount of surface area so the 22 is tougher to stop. The .50 caliber has to defeat 5X the Kevlar compared to a 22. If a big revolver is desired, the 460 is a better choice as it has less surface area and greater velocity while an even better handgun choice would be a 30/30 Contender..

I don't know but, the impact of that big slug would surely cause your intended victims heart to miss a beat, long enough to beat him with your 500!
Steve

My thought as soon as I read the OP is that this guy was trolling for info to use somewhere else negatively about the 500. Maybe not, but the left was using the 500 as a whipping post quite a bit back when this thread was started, and he hasn't posted again for a year and half now.

Just carry a FiveSeveN liaded with ss190

I don't think that a classical 500 bullet could penetrate a modern body armor..Class IV body armor is able to stop 5,56 or 30-06 AP bullets in the plates at short range.
There are enough vids shown on U-T..e to see the stopping power of this body armor class.
best regards from France

Nice thread necromancy...

Interesting point of view by most on this thread.Since the .50 cal AE fired from a Desert Eagle will penetrate and go completely through body armor,steel,concrete,trees, and destroy ballistic glass. I would expect no less from the big.500!

I don't know about a 500 as I dont have one but I strongly suspect my .460 loaded with the right pills would make a vest optional equipment.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

I checked UT but, none on there with level IV. Hmmm, where did you see this???? I guess just another cyber space mystery. I did see this level mentioned in titles but, not shown in the actual videos.
I would hope skeptics would shoot the 500 before posting such comments.
Steve

There is a recipe for a 500 grain slug out of a 500 S&W. If it does not penetrate body armor it will knock the perp across the street on impact.

Since this thread is back up, perhaps the question shouldn't be penetration but more a matter of terminal effect? Does it matter if the bullet goes through the attacker, if he is laying on the ground with his chest cavity crushed and unable to breathe? Not saying the 500 is the first choice of home defense, but IF you are going to consider it, perhaps a downloaded version of the round, like say a 335 plated bullet over a very mild load of Trail Boss would be a better option than a Tyrannosaur Rex Killer load? ESPECIALLY if you are considering having to shot inside the house; perhaps sitting on top of your 500 should be a set of ear muffs? On the positive side, even IF you missed the bad guy(s), can you picture the effect such a muzzle blast would have on THEM? It'd be kind of hard to focus on carting off the big screen TV and such when you suddenly find yourself (as the bad guy) on the receiving end of a shock-and-awe flash-bang and turn to see the pissed-off homeowner lowering that cannon back at YOUR now-concussioned head.

All that said, I agree that 15 rounds of .45acp from an FNX-45, or 8 rounds of 00 Buck from a VEPR-12/Saiga at the face, or even a couple of rounds of .357 Mag from a 65-3 would probably get the job done too. I guess it depends on which weapon is nearest at hand when the situation happens. I'd rather have the 500 Mag sitting on the nightstand next to me than the .45acp down the hall sitting in the safe, or vice-versa. Because in the end, it isn't the tool- its the person using it and their response time to action, that is probably going to be the biggest factor in the outcome, IMHO.

Well I live in a location where there is no chance of Collateral Damage from over Penetration. If I feel that my .44 Mag is insufficient to stop an Armored BG from breaking down my door, I go to my Rifles. Not a puny .223, a real Battle Rifle. The M14.

SB: As said a lever IV plate does stop 30-06 AP bullets
enjoy
Level IV Body Armor Test - Vuurwapen Blog - YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaS_2l8nGdg