First time poster, I certainly can use some help with my new 617-6 10 shot. I'm fairly new to handguns (about one year), and have been learning from the forum for a year also.

I purchased a new 617 a couple of weeks ago and everything looked good, and still does. I gave the gun a light cleaning and went to the range with Federal Champion 525 Value Pack (36 gr, 1260 fps, copper plated HP) ammo. I really had no problems, seemed much more accurate than me at 10 yards. I quit after about 300 rounds, my trigger fingers were just too tired and I was just wasting ammo. I didn't try a bench rest, just enjoyed double action shooting for an hour.

This is my first 22 rim fire gun and was really surprised how much work it took to clean the gun. I read about 22 ammo, and some said that CCI Mini-Mag (40 gr, 1235 fps, copper plated RN) ammo was cleaner, which seem to be my only problem.

The second trip to range didn't go well at all, couldn't get through 100 rounds. Removing the spend rounds from the second or third cylinder was so hard that I thought something was broken. (The CCI like the Federals slipped into the cylinders without problem.) I took the gun with spent ammo to a range person and he thought the gun was fine.

Sometimes I could get through the entire cylinder, sometimes I could only shoot 3 shots before the cylinder bound tight. I could wiggle the cylinder and get it to open. After replacing the spent ammo I might be able to shoot the whole cylinder, sometimes I couldn't. I really didn't know what to look for on the gun, I just assumed that I didn't do a very good cleaning job with the Federal bulk ammo.

I cleaned the gun really good when I got home, and read a bunch of cleaning threads on the forum. I even took off the side plate to see if anything was binding... I'm not sure if I would know a problem if I saw one. Anyway, everything looked good, lubricated, and clean.

Tonight I looked at the spent Federal and CCI ammo (I saved it for dry fire practice). The Federal brass slips in easily, many of the CCI needs to be forced into the cylinder to fully seat. A few of the CCI brass have what appear to be scrap marks on the head end. (I don't know how to add pictures yet).

The gun appears to have a slightly smaller gap at the cylinder-firing pin end than the forcing cone end (I don't have a feeler gage), but there is a gap as the cylinder is fully rotated.

When the gun is fired does the brass kick back against the firing pin surface ??? Could my gun just have a problem with the CCI Mini-Mags ??? Could some cylinders be tighter than others ??? (I'm pretty sure there was no oil on the inside of the cylinders for both my range sessions.)

Any/all thoughts and suggestions are welcome... Thank you, Will

CCI minimags have a waxy lubricant on them...that could be what's causing the tough time you're having extracting them from the cylinder. As for the binding, it could be residue under the extractor star preventing it from closing completely. Give the gun a thorough cleaning...that should help.

Did you read this thread?

Help with 617 problem.

I had the same problem.

This evening I poured a half of brick of Federal Bulk onto my shooting bench and commenced shooting with my 4" 617. At the end of the shoot mine was still loading and ejecting freely. With no bindups or tight spots. I WON"T shoot remington .22 ammo!

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S&W Accumulator

I use Cheap Federal or CCI Standard Velocity, that is the only ammo my 617 see's. It likes the CCI the best because they cost more .

Make sure your ejector rod is tight and there is no crud or lube under the extractor star. Sometimes it can take a surprisingly small amount of powder residue or flecks of brass under the extractor star to give you trouble.

I had problems with Winchester 525 .22 that I bought at WalMart. Very dirty and leaded up the barrel. i will not use that ammo again.

Make sure you tip the barrel end up as you eject your spent casings so that powder residue stays in the casings instead of getting in your gun. Also look for leading around the forcing cone. Use a brass scraper to remove it. Thoroughly clean the cylinder after a range trip under the extractor star and in the chambers. I use solvent and a q-tip, and it will get the mess out easily enough.

Big Ox - I will give the gun a thorough cleaning and watch out for a waxy build-up (and will bring brushes to the range)

KiaTia - I did read your thread before I posted, it was very helpful

Mike SC Hunter - I'll stick with the Federal for my next session - and will stay away from Remington

Bullseye Smith - (off topic) still happy with my 649 plug, thank you. Do you notice the spent CCI brass harder to extract than the Federal brass?

My cylinders are clean and I cleaned some spent CCI brass - some I can hardly force into the cylinder. The Federal brass just slip in.

TNDave - My ejector rod is tight, will bring a brush to make sure my extractor star area remains clean

Greekshooter - I'll stay away from the Winchester, not looking for problems

617x10 - I'll keep my barrel up when extracting, I did notice powder residue in the cylinder last trip. Think I'll bring some q-tips to the range, just in case

Thanks again to all, I plan on a range visit this afternoon and will let you know if there is progress.

Will

One thing I particularly like for a new .22 revolver is to clean the chambers with a bronze brush mounted in an electric drill. Not only does it do a better job of cleaning the chambers than just running the brush back and forth with a rod, it also burnishes the chambers to smooth them and make them less sensitive to fouling in the future.

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Tom

When you shoot non-plated lead bullets, like Fed AutoMatch from WallyWorld, which is great ammo, try pushing Hoppes, etc, wetted swipes through the chambers and bore - wait a minute - and repeat. Give the solvent time to 'work' - then follow up with dry swipes. Q-tips, as they will in your ear, will leave teeny bits of cotton - swipes are better. I push them through with a short piece of 1/8 " brass rod (From Ace, etc, hardware stores.), saving the longer piece, they come in 3 ft lengths, for bolt action .22 rifle cleaning. Check even under the ejector star - where the rod attaches - small amounts of crud there can play hell - I've found even copper/bronze wires, from brushes, wrapped there, too. Always check the ejector rod for tightness - first put a few empty cases in the cylinder - and recall that it is a LH thread. That means, from the front, CW loosens, CCW tightens.

Be careful what you put in the chambers and bores. Most bore/chamber brushes have steel central wires, so be careful. More rimfire guns, long and short, are damaged in cleaning than in use. My SW's, a 3" & 5" 63 and a 4" 617, all new within the last 2.5 yr, get infrequent cleaning - usually 500+ rounds between cleanings. My cf S&W revolvers get cleaned after each use. I went through most of two bricks of the Fed 36gr HP from WallyWorld in my 617 with no problems. The second cylinderfull of CCI Stingers or Velocitors was hard to insert - harder to extract - in the just cleaned 617. I have a few such rounds left - and no need for more. My rimfires are plinkers - and they love those inexpensive WallyWorld Federal rounds... thank goodness! Enjoy your 617 and welcome aboard!

Stainz

I started with a very clean 617 and brought my cleaning supplies just in case. Shot 200+ Federal bulk ammo without any problems (wasn't brave enough to try the CCI Mini-Mags this trip). I did brush some powder away from the cylinder and from under the star a couple of times.

I really appreciate all the suggestions, they resulted in an excellent trip.

Follow-up question for Tom C and Stainz:

Tom C - Do you use an old bronze brush to burnish ? Wondered if a fairly new one would harm the cylinder ?

Stainz - I will definitely try the dry swipes with a brass rod, whole lot better than what I've been doing. Sounds like your experience with CCIs is like mine, why do most others not have problems with them? Are our cylinders slightly smaller? Most seem to really like the CCIs.

IMO the 22LR caliber revolvers have more issues with fouling than any other caliber. As for why, it's a LONG RIFLE caliber, means a lot of unspent powder in a handgun, there just isn't enough barrel length for a full burn.

Because of this, I won't shoot more than 100-150 rounds downrange without a full cleaning, otherwise getting the gun good and clean is just too much work. I don't mind spending 1/2 hour to an hour cleaning a gun, when it gets to be more than an hour it's too much of a chore.

Tips for cleaning. My first tip concerns the solvent. I've tried Hoppes and most of the others and I have never found anything that works better than M Pro 7. It ain't cheap at nearly 40 dollars a quart but it does a better job than any other product I've found. If you let the cylinder soak for about 15 minutes you can get 80-90% of the carbon off the face of the cylinder with nothing more than an old toothbrush. Then I'll use that toothbrush to clean under the extractor and give the ratchets a good scrubbing. Note, if you want that cylinder face shining like new you will have to follow up with a lead away cleaning cloth setted with the M Pro 7. That step will take between 5 and 7 minutes of moderate pressure rubbing. BTW, a good soak with the M Pro 7 above the barrel in the frame window will have most of that accumulation out of that crevice with that same toothbrush. As for the rest of the frame window a quick wipe with that wet lead away cloth is all it takes.

For the chambers in the cylinder, it's another soaking with M Pro 7 and then about 7-10 strokes with a bronze bore brush. Then I'll run a bore snake thru each chamber to remove any remaining solvent. Since I like my 617 with a full shine, I clean the external surface of the cylinder using 3M Finesse-it II polishing compound. As for why, it's the polish I use to put a shine on my boat at the start of each season, so I always have some around. If you want to keep the brushed look, use the lead away cleaning cloth soaked with M Pro 7. Note, after a few years the cylinder will start to take on a polish using that procedure, if you want to restore the brushed look, wet sand it with a 800-1000 grit sandpaper in the same direction as the original brushing.

For the barrel, I soak it with the M Pro 7, let it sit for 15 minutes, then brush it for just 10 strokes with a 22 caliber PISTOL brush. Note, pistol brushes are short enough to allow the brush to come completely out of the barrel in the frame window and this is VERY IMPORTANT. You NEVER want to reverse direction with a bore brush still in the barrel. After brushing the barrel I'll run a bore snake through the barrel to clean up any remaining solvent.

After everything is clean, I'll reassemble the cylinder to the frame and give the whole gun a rub down with that 3M polish. Then it's a coat of pure 3M Carnuba wax, another product I have left over from cleaning the boat.

As for ammunition, I'm a bit of a cheapskate, so what I shoot is what's available in bulk.

The most accurate 22 caliber that I've found for my 617 is the Winchester Xpert HV or Wildcat. Basically they are the same load, I suspect the HV is a Walmart exclusive and the Wildcat is the standard label. Downside of using this ammo is that it's pretty dirty shooting, with my 6 shooter I'll start having problems getting new rounds fully seated after 50-70 rounds downrange. Good news for this load is that it'll group 24 rounds under 2 inches at 100 feet, if I ever get around to mounting a scope on the 617 it may even do better.

The second ammo I use is the Federal bulk copper washed. Good news is that I can shoot a lot longer without having any issues with cylinder fouling. More good news is that a full cleanup only takes half as long as when shooting the Winchester. Bad news is that it's not as accurate as the Winchester, 24 round aggregate groups run about 3 inches at 100 feet. So, it's a good choice for running double action drills and the like but not appropriate for hunting squirrels.

Now, one positive is that both of these loads shoot to the same Point of Aim, so in terms of sighting they are interchangeable.

One idea is to clean the chambers of your 22 with a 25 cal brush. They are large enough to do a good job on the chambers.

I use slightly oversize bronze brushes for cleaning chambers. I like a .243 rifle brush for chambers. By using bronze, as opposed to stainless, you greatly reduce the likelihood of damage to the chambers. The bronze is much softer than the steel cylinder. The stainless brushes can damage some guns.

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Tom

I shoot 2-300 rounds per week from my 617, firing mainly CCI standard velocity. All .22 ammo burns relatively dirty, I find that the CCI is just slightly cleaner burning than other brands. It's also somewhat cleaner burning than CCI minimags, probably because it utilizes less powder per round. Ejection of spent shell casings can become difficult after about 150-175 rounds and it gets progressively harder. Usually, by about 250 rounds, ejection is really a chore and the gun needs to be cleaned. Sometimes, by that point, the cylinder face and forcing cone are so coated with powder residue that the cylinder will bind slightly.

I've discovered after years of shooting my 617 that simple works best. I start with a dry brush. No solvent, no bore cleaner, just a dry brush. I brush the barrel and chambers very vigorously. I sometimes use a 25 cal. brush on the chambers, especially when they're really dirty. I change out my old brushes frequently. At about $2.00 per brush I find it well worth it to use a new one every 3rd or 4th session.

I find that a few minutes of vigorous brushing usually gets 90% of the gunk out. Very often I can actually see clouds of carbon dust come out of the chambers when I pull the brush out.

I then clean all exposed surfaces very carefully. Generally, I wipe them down with a patch that is saturated with Birchfield-Casey Gun Scrubber. I find it to be excellent for removing carbon deposits. Where carbon is really built up, such as on the front surface of the cylinder, I rub with a Birchfield-Casey gun cleaning cloth. Two or three minutes of hard rubbing is usually enough to remove close to 100% of the carbon deposits.

I then swab out the bore and chambers with patches that are soaked with Gun Scrubber. Usually, three patches will be all that is necessary to render the bore pristine. More, sometimes as many as 10 patches, might be needed to completely clean out the chambers. I then run an oil saturated patch down the bore and through the cylinders. I like Smith & Wesson gun oil. A little of that stuff goes an enormously long way, I'm still using the 4 ounce can that I bought 3 years ago.

Finally, I run clean dry patches down the bore and chambers to remove as much oil residue as possible. Often, the first patch will come back black with residual carbon and oil, but by the third patch, everything is clean.

The whole job usually takes me about 45 minutes. That's about twice as long as it takes me to clean a centerfire revolver. But, that's due to the very dirty rimfire ammo.

I've had my 617 for about 5 years and, during that time, I'd estimate that I've put over 50,000 rounds through it. It's still ticking like a swiss watch -- just so long as I clean it every couple hundred rounds or so.

The CCI Stingers & Velocitors are a too-tight fit in my CZ-452 and Kimber 84G bolt action rifles, too. Their standard velocity variants - even MiniMags - fit better - the same with my S&W rimfire revolvers. Match ammo works great in the S&W's, too - but use the Federal bricks - the odd flier will give you something to blame your poor marksmanship on and they don't seem as dirty as some ammo - like the CCI hot loads. Being inexpensive, too, aint bad! I don't know if it's the way CCI hot loads are crimped - or the bullet lube - but the ammo almost seems too long. Those bolt actions, with their 'match' chambers, hate the stuff.

Stainz

My 617 is a jewel and I have never had any issues, but I once owned (once owned being the operative word) a 22 MAG and after 2 to 3 cylinders full of CCI...you had to almost knock the empties out with a hammer. I took a well used 38 caliber bronze bore brush and a drill to work-over all the chambers. This cured the problem.

I no longer own that particular piece, but I have also read a good many threads across many of the firearms forums concerning sticky ejection, even on new center fires. The usual fix is to polish the chambers. When you call the factory, they normally tell you to "try another brand of ammo". This really bugs me that a weapon chambered for a particular round will not function properly with any ammunition in that particular caliber that you take off the shelf.....but it happens. If I have a gun that is ammunition sensitive....I won't keep it. If my gun won't shoot anything in that caliber I take off a dealers shelf and I can't fix it....I don't keep it. Is that an ammo manufacturer problem, or a weapons manufacturer problem? I don't know, but it's un-nerving for me to have to hunt a round that my weapon will shoot.