It's probably on here somewhere, but I can't seem to find the answer.

I know why S&W started stamping Marcas Registradas on the frame and I know it's Latin and not Spanish. What I want to know is when they dropped it, or if they have dropped it? I see some some identical models within the same caliber that has it stamped and some don't.

Was there a particular year they stopped it, or just on some models? Take a 317 for instance. Some bear the marking and some don't.

What's up?

I can't tell you about the markings on modern guns, but I can tell you that the phrase is NOT Latin. The word "marca" does not exist in Classical Latin, though it is found in Medieval Latin as a back formation from cognate words in other languages -- marque, mark, etc. The root word may have been Germanic, but derivation is unclear. Also, the past participle in Latin would have a T rather than a D -- marca registrata.

The story as I heard it is that S&W came out second best in an international court on a patent violation case because their product had not been marked in the way required by the European agency. Rather than keep separate sets of rollmarks for different revolvers destined for different countries, S&W just decided to mark all their guns so that they could ship any of them where they wanted to. Can't remember the country, but the phrase can, I believe, be either Spanish or Portuguese.

There. I have just busted myself as an old Latin teacher. I majored in dead languages in college.

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David Wilson

Well....thanks for the language-lesson, but that is not exactly what I want to know. I have read in other places where people have sworn it's not Spanish, or Portuguese...but definitely Latin. I will take your word for it and stand corrected. Don't want to start some food-fight over that anyway.

I DO NOT CARE what language it is. The questions is...."why does the phrase appear on some guns and does not appear on others in the same model". I am not talking about all the pre-war and early stuff and I understand why they started doing it. I am talking about modern post-war weapons. I can post some pictures of two recent same-model guns. One has the phrase....one does not. THAT is my question. If somebody wants to see pictures....let me know and I will post them side-by-side.

This is one of those conundrums that can drive you in circles all day long. For every story you'll hear, you may hear either a different version or a differing reason. Smith has done many things over the years that seem to defy reason with regards to markings. One of the reasons you see on the forum the phrase, "with Smith, never say never".

My suggestion is to send an email to Roy Jinks (member here) and go "straight to the horse's mouth" so to speak. Another source that I would trust to give you the skinny would be member Doc44.

Hope this helps.

I think your answer is hiding next to the answer of what the heck is that marking on the Highway Patrolman revolvers…

Thanks folks. I am going to post two pictures. I DO NOT have either of these weapons in my possession. It's just one of those stupid "inquiring minds want to know" sort of things.

Attached Images

	marcas yes.jpg (51.4 KB, 125 views)
	marcas no.jpg (28.8 KB, 128 views)

Thats funny I heard all kinds of story's for that one also

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De Oppresso Liber Μολὼν λαβέ

I think the Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson actually discusses the answer to your question. I don't have my copy with me. So I can't quote it to you.

However, going off of memory, I don't think it happened at the same time for every model. (Again, this is my memory. So bear with me.) The change was a result of the BATF ruling that the Manufacturer/Importer marking along with the serial number had to be at least 0.003 inches in depth. This could not be accomplished with the "Marcus Registratus" marking because the letter ran together. So S&W changed over to the two line marking when laser engraving and eventually changed over to the two line marking for everything.

It was not, to my knowledge, considered a major design change. So there was no revision number change.

You have an excellent memory, except they have to be .003" deep. Some of the markings they used had virtually no depth.

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"I also cook."

Those pictures I posted are both no-lock 317's. I am pretty sure the one with Diamondwood grips is the "early" model and the one with the composite/rubber grips is a later model...but both are no-lock. Both look stamped when you zoom-in, but I could be wrong.

my 686 4'' is