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S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present All NON-PINNED Barrels, the L-Frames, and the New Era Revolvers


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Old 05-15-2011, 09:19 AM
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Question!!!...Factory Engraved or Freelance Engraved and why??...I won't be offended by what ever your choice is for I have done both and will give my opinion as to the pros and cons of both...


Be sure to look us up on FaceBook......https://www.facebook.com/pages/DAnge...43592739017162
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Old 05-15-2011, 06:37 PM
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I'm going to show my self-centeredness here. If I were commissioning an engraved firearm, it would be for me or as a gift for someone very close to me (wife or child). Therefore, I would look at the previous work of several engravers and talk with them to assure we had the same vision for what is to be created. Some individuals look for the factory connection for value in the future. I personally would be more concerned with the artist's talent and his or her ability to share his vision to me as the customer.
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Old 05-15-2011, 06:55 PM
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Welcome Wayne...
Nice to have you here... Your work is spectacular....
We LOVE pictures
By the way, you would be the first I would look up if I was to have one scratched up..
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Old 05-15-2011, 07:08 PM
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Welcome Wayne...
Nice to have you here... Your work is spectacular....
We LOVE pictures
By the way, you would be the first I would look up if I was to have one scratched up..
Well Thank You Sir!!
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Old 05-15-2011, 08:18 PM
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Welcome to the forum, Wayne.

Need to split my answer to your question into 2 parts:

1) Previously existing pieces...

As a collector, and in my opinion, I would choose factory over freelance simply for the inherent value retention. I don't collect anything as new as would have been done by you, but I know a Russ Smith factory commands more on resale than a non-factory. So is true throughout the past. S&W in the 1860's contracted Martin, Nimschke, and others. These engravers also worked their own shops outside the factory. Their work that letters as factory seems to command higher premiums, at least in the Smith & Wesson world. I would venture a guess that your factory work would command more than freelance in the same time period.

2) Current contract work...

Now, I can honestly say that, today, if I were looking for a custom engraved piece as a personal rememberance or gift, you would be my first call. Your work is simply magnificent.
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Old 05-15-2011, 08:46 PM
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Wayne,
I 've seen and admired your work. I appreciate the skills you have. I have a close friend who is one of the top saddle makers in the country. He is now retired but I was awed by the craftsmanship he placed in creating a saddle. He created master pieces for over 50 yrs, making 5 to 6 each yr. Craftsmanship is a great asset.

Thank you for craftsmanship.
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Old 05-15-2011, 09:22 PM
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Welcome to the forum, Wayne.

Need to split my answer to your question into 2 parts:

1) Previously existing pieces...

As a collector, and in my opinion, I would choose factory over freelance simply for the inherent value retention. I don't collect anything as new as would have been done by you, but I know a Russ Smith factory commands more on resale than a non-factory. So is true throughout the past. S&W in the 1860's contracted Martin, Nimschke, and others. These engravers also worked their own shops outside the factory. Their work that letters as factory seems to command higher premiums, at least in the Smith & Wesson world. I would venture a guess that your factory work would command more than freelance in the same time period.

2) Current contract work...

Now, I can honestly say that, today, if I were looking for a custom engraved piece as a personal rememberance or gift, you would be my first call. Your work is simply magnificent.
Mr. D'Angelo is a bit ( A LOT Modest)
He is the Former Chief Engraver for S&W
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Old 05-15-2011, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pace40 View Post
Welcome to the forum, Wayne.

Need to split my answer to your question into 2 parts:

1) Previously existing pieces...

As a collector, and in my opinion, I would choose factory over freelance simply for the inherent value retention. I don't collect anything as new as would have been done by you, but I know a Russ Smith factory commands more on resale than a non-factory. So is true throughout the past. S&W in the 1860's contracted Martin, Nimschke, and others. These engravers also worked their own shops outside the factory. Their work that letters as factory seems to command higher premiums, at least in the Smith & Wesson world. I would venture a guess that your factory work would command more than freelance in the same time period.

2) Current contract work...

Now, I can honestly say that, today, if I were looking for a custom engraved piece as a personal remembrance or gift, you would be my first call. Your work is simply magnificent.
Well Thank you for the kind compliment!!....I believe Collectors today are missing out on truly amazing art and craftsmanship that we have out there today. I can see your reasons for wanting pieces that state they are Factory Engraved cause they command higher prices, but are these pieces truly Factory Engraved??....I think not!!...75% or more of the commissioned pieces are sent out to freelance engravers and are called Factory Engraved when they are truly not. So you are in a sense paying several thousands additional for a piece of paper that in my opinion is just a bunch of lies stating that its factory engraved. Also...true Factory Engraved guns in my opinion are not the same level of quality as you would get from wisely chosen freelance engravers, one must remember...when a piece is engraved at a factory it's all about money and getting it finished a soon as possible...you must cover your overhead for the Dept. at least that's how it is now a days....in the old days Custom Factory Engraving shops were handled much differently.Freelance Engravers who work for themselves have only one thing to keep them going...QUALITY and Customer Service, we tend to spend much more time on a piece cause it's our name attached to it and it's our livelihood.
Factory Engraved pieces had merit years and years ago, but not today.All Gun Manufactures that offer Custom Engraving claim to have Custom shops...but do they???....( I have seen so many Factory Engraved Letters stating they were Factory Engraved when they were not!!) They may have one or two in house Engravers but they all ship out the majority of all their work...the in house engravers are reserved for Brown nosing gifts of Management....Just speaking from experience here...Just remember...it's the Collectors that set the value on Collected guns, me personally....Quality out weighs worthless piece of paper...Unless it's a Authenticity letter from the Artist!!
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Old 05-16-2011, 05:47 AM
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As a matter of fact, I am looking for a small bit of engraving and since S&W quoted a minimum of $1500, even if it's just a name on the side plate ("Luscious" with a scroll), freelance will be the way I'll go. Thought I'd check out the local trophy shops ...
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Old 05-16-2011, 09:17 AM
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I'd look to either factory or freelance for an engraving project. Not looking to add monetery value to the gun, but personal value. If I had one of my guns engraved it would be for personal satisfaction in owning a one of a kind piece, that would commemorate something in my life that I'd want to have placed into the steel of the gun. I've considered getting one of my work revolvers engraved to mark my carreer as a Deputy, but haven't come up with any ideas that seem to "fit". But then I'd have to have two done up so my sons don't fight over them, when I'm gone.
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Old 05-16-2011, 09:59 AM
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Years ago (30+) I got to know an engraver when he was getting started. I also started reading up on the subject, got a few of the nice coffee-table books on old engraved Colts and Winchesters, and best of all read Meeks' book on engraving. Every time I ran across an engraved gun I really looked it over, often with a magnifying glass.

After a few years of this I came up with a nice early 1911 that would make a good subject, and this engraver and I had a conversation about what I would like, his suggestions, and my preferences. We went for full coverage, gold inlaid lines, a "French grey" finish, and plain ivories, in a custom-made glass toppped case. The results were stunning, and twenty years later I still like it. The engraver has long since become a top tier craftsman and has made a name for himself as a freelancer.

I am much happier with the piece than a "factory engraved gun" as I got exactly what I wanted and no doubt a much more extensive job than I would ever have gotten otherwise.

Never thought I would ever wind up with something like that, but I did. Someday I will master the posting of photos and put it up here by way of proof.
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Old 05-16-2011, 08:30 PM
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Hi Wayne:

I understand that a lot of collectors want an engraved gun that will factory letter. I would likely pass on a Class A type of coverage without a letter. Custom engraved guns are a different animinal.

I agree with your comments on how many guns that lettered were actually done outside the factory. In the 30's, the 40's and most of the 50's, if the factory had a really special project, they sent it to the Kornbreaths, Griffin & Howle, Alvin White, a European house or others. That is even before we talk about the contract engraving of the mid-70's and beyond.

The group of factory Masters including Russ Smith, Freyberger, DJ and Paul Piquette did some pretty good guns. Some would even give the old Masters some competition.

Great engraving beyond good scroll work or gold lines or lettering is much better with a great freelance engraver. You have much more to examine to select who you want to do your project. The current factory prices are much higher than you will find outside. My guess is the difference will alow one to do a more elaborate project or cover the cost of a custom set of ivory grips.

I this the experience of working with a free lance engraver will provide a higher level of satisifaction of getting exactly what you want. Beyond Class A - go top class!

Bob
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Old 05-16-2011, 09:53 PM
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Hello Mr. D'Angelo. No opinions as to factory engraved or not.
It's my opinion art is art. Kind of like tattoos. (snicker)

Here are a few pictures of a model 627 I found and would love to duplicate.
I think it is one of the classiest STAINLESS engraved guns I've ever seen.









Would this be considered class A??





I should contact you about having mine done in this style.
I think it is stunning.


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Old 05-16-2011, 10:17 PM
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I have an engraved gun or two..maybe more. And as always on these subjects, my views are different. I've owned a few dozen engraved guns over the years, but sold most of them. And in all that time I've never commissioned one to be engraved. My preference (and since I'm the guy buying, its all that counts) is to see the gun before I pay my money. Its the only way I can be certain of the finished product.

At this time I only own one factory engraved gun, a M57. Its just spectacular. But at the same time I've got a half dozen engraved K22s. All done by some pretty impressive artists. And I really like gold inlay, something you don't see much of from the factory.

Before anyone buys an engraved gun, I'd suggest they spend a good amount of time at gun shows looking at what catches their eye.

Another thing I've discovered is the grips often make the gun. Its true of engraved guns just as much as plain ones. Often you find a great gun but the handles just don't do it justice. Always be on the lookout for orphaned grips (the ones that sell at huge prices). They can improve your gun by a bunch.
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Old 05-16-2011, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Allen-frame View Post
Hello Mr. D'Angelo. No opinions as to factory engraved or not.
It's my opinion art is art. Kind of like tattoos. (snicker)

Here are a few pictures of a model 627 I found and would love to duplicate.
I think it is one of the classiest STAINLESS engraved guns I've ever seen.









Would this be considered class A??





I should contact you about having mine done in this style.
I think it is stunning.


Regards
Allen
You are correct in that Engraving should be thought of as Art, therefor it should make no difference in spending lets say $6000.00 for engraving on a gun that's only worth $1200.00...It's the Art & Craftsmanship and the reputation of the Artists name that you are paying for. We take a Firearm that thousands upon thousands are produced that look exactly alike and we turn it into a one of a kind piece of art that separates it from the rest...Just be careful in choosing the Engraver...there are alot of Hacks out there who can chop up a gun , give you full coverage and only charge you ...lets say $500.00 ....that's insane. But a true collector can spot a hack while most folks just see cut lines on a gun and say WOW!! without knowing what to look for.....Old saying holds true...You Get What You Pay For..

I would consider this gun a Class- C
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Old 05-16-2011, 10:42 PM
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Hello Mr. D'Angelo. No opinions as to factory engraved or not.
It's my opinion art is art. Kind of like tattoos. (snicker)

Regards
Allen
You are exactly right! It IS like tattoos. I'm sure you get what you pay for and it's likely a one shot deal. Any mess ups could be noticeable by the customer.
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