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  #151  
Old 09-30-2011, 06:24 PM
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I just read an article about the Gov in the Nov 2011 issue of Comnat Handguns. They chronographed several loads. It showed the Federal .410 000 Buck only traveling at 790 FPS. I thought this load was rated at 1200 FPS. Are there two types of Federal 4 pellet 000? Or is the 1200 FPS from a long test barrel velocity?

Im not real impressed with the Winchester PDX round. They need to drop the BB shot and add another disc or two.
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  #152  
Old 10-01-2011, 01:48 AM
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I would venture a guess that the higher velocity is out of a shotgun barrel. 790FPS doesn't sound bad out of the Governors short barrel. This is my hands down favorite 410 load in my Governor. I agree with you on the PDX1, drop the BBs and add a disc.







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Originally Posted by RPD20 View Post
I just read an article about the Gov in the Nov 2011 issue of Comnat Handguns. They chronographed several loads. It showed the Federal .410 000 Buck only traveling at 790 FPS. I thought this load was rated at 1200 FPS. Are there two types of Federal 4 pellet 000? Or is the 1200 FPS from a long test barrel velocity?

Im not real impressed with the Winchester PDX round. They need to drop the BB shot and add another disc or two.
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  #153  
Old 10-01-2011, 04:26 PM
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Im not real impressed with the Winchester PDX round. They need to drop the BB shot and add another disc or two.
Personally I don't like the discs or the bb's in the PDX round. I'm wondering what kind of penetration one can expect from a disc, especially since they can't be that heavy. It would seem that their flat shape and lack of any substantial weight would prevent good penetration, but then again, not knowing how heavy they actually are I could be wrong.....
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  #154  
Old 10-01-2011, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by ogilvyspecial View Post
Personally I don't like the discs or the bb's in the PDX round. I'm wondering what kind of penetration one can expect from a disc, especially since they can't be that heavy. It would seem that their flat shape and lack of any substantial weight would prevent good penetration, but then again, not knowing how heavy they actually are I could be wrong.....
Exactly, on both comments. Watch the videos of Hickok45 shooting a steel 55 gallon drum. The discs with their flatness bounce off half the time and can't penetrate where the rings are but the Federal 000 punch through the thick steel barrel effortlessly at about 25 feet in his tests. When I run out of my PDX rounds I will buy only the Federal 000 from now on. Today at the range I was actually slamming rocks and dirt clods at 50 yards with the 000. I almost couldn't believe they stayed in any kind of a group that far out.
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  #155  
Old 10-01-2011, 05:06 PM
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Default Federal 000 Buck

According to the box it`s rated at 850fps. WallyWorld has them at around 12 bucks for 20. My main load but I also carry a coupla Moonclips of .45ACP just in case. Always Carry,Never Tell.
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  #156  
Old 10-01-2011, 06:17 PM
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Since I just went out and snapped a few quick photos for another thread here's my Governor with it's night shift co-workers.
Currently it's fully loaded with Federal Handgun 000 Buck.



This next photo just shows how well the Merlin Fanny Pack can hide the Governor, which takes this pack to about it's limit, size-wise. The Judge I used to have fit in the Merlin with room to spare and it had 3" chambers and a slightly longer barrel than the Gov. I have an older Merlin that has a grey compartment front and it works much better in giving the illusion that this isn't a "gun pack." Either one are great ways to have a quick & easy method of carrying a handgun that doesn't scream gun.



Note that on both packs shown, Merlin & Maxpedition, I cut-off all of the metal zipper pulls and replaced them with 550' cord. When trying to sneak around at night I sounded like Festus walking along with his spurs just a jingling. That is also why I have a bandana wrapped around a portion of my 870's 3-point sling. The little metal strap keeper would hit the plastic stock and click every time I took a step so it was hard to slip up on an animal while I was a clickin' & a jinglin'.......
The other pack shown is a Tuff-Products X-Large speed-strip pouch, which is where I carry my spare 20 ga. shotshells.

Last edited by ogilvyspecial; 10-01-2011 at 06:35 PM.
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  #157  
Old 10-02-2011, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPD20 View Post
I just read an article about the Gov in the Nov 2011 issue of Comnat Handguns. They chronographed several loads. It showed the Federal .410 000 Buck only traveling at 790 FPS. I thought this load was rated at 1200 FPS. Are there two types of Federal 4 pellet 000?
Federal is making *two* different types of 000BK .410 "handgun" ammo. One is 850FPS and the other is 1200FPS. I've had both in hand simultaneously. The boxes, the shells and stock number are identical except for the ""850FPS" and the "1200FPD" designation on the box. Very strange I think.
The 1200 is probably closer to 1100fps in the Guv I'm guessing. Hell of a wallop, 4 72gr pellets smakin' ya at over 1000fps. And with the tight grouping that sounds like THE close quarters handgun round.
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  #158  
Old 10-03-2011, 10:00 AM
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With Taurus selling these like Polish sausages at a State Fair, it's no wonder Smith got into the act.

My own opinion is that it is a travesty, a stupid, ungainly, waste of money, but then that's just me.
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  #159  
Old 10-03-2011, 10:24 AM
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With Taurus selling these like Polish sausages at a State Fair, it's no wonder Smith got into the act.

My own opinion is that it is a travesty, a stupid, ungainly, waste of money, but then that's just me.

Funny stuff... is that screen name for real...... It's as funny as your statement.. but then that's just me too...
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  #160  
Old 10-03-2011, 11:15 AM
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I like your setup with the Merlin, I'll have to check one out.


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Originally Posted by ogilvyspecial View Post
Since I just went out and snapped a few quick photos for another thread here's my Governor with it's night shift co-workers.
Currently it's fully loaded with Federal Handgun 000 Buck.



This next photo just shows how well the Merlin Fanny Pack can hide the Governor, which takes this pack to about it's limit, size-wise. The Judge I used to have fit in the Merlin with room to spare and it had 3" chambers and a slightly longer barrel than the Gov. I have an older Merlin that has a grey compartment front and it works much better in giving the illusion that this isn't a "gun pack." Either one are great ways to have a quick & easy method of carrying a handgun that doesn't scream gun.



Note that on both packs shown, Merlin & Maxpedition, I cut-off all of the metal zipper pulls and replaced them with 550' cord. When trying to sneak around at night I sounded like Festus walking along with his spurs just a jingling. That is also why I have a bandana wrapped around a portion of my 870's 3-point sling. The little metal strap keeper would hit the plastic stock and click every time I took a step so it was hard to slip up on an animal while I was a clickin' & a jinglin'.......
The other pack shown is a Tuff-Products X-Large speed-strip pouch, which is where I carry my spare 20 ga. shotshells.
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  #161  
Old 10-03-2011, 02:46 PM
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I like your setup with the Merlin, I'll have to check one out.
Mag, the Merlin really lives up to its name, you should have seen the looks on peoples faces when I pulled my 4” L-Frame out of it. Most made the comment that they thought, based on what it looked like closed, that I would only be able to carry a little “pony gun” in it.

The pack can be used either left or right-handed and is essentially a two part design. The front is the holster portion and the back half the belt part, which comes long enough for most peoples waist lines. I wear a 36” belt and I cut off at least 10” of the belt portion and still have something like 10” more than I need. The extra belt material is folded back on itself and held in place by its own buckle system.

I like that the belt clips into place from both ends, which allows me to use 550’ cord to tie into place, through the slots in the buckle on my left side, all my add-ons. I can pick up the Merlin from the “clean end” of the holster portion and shake it, with the belt unbuckled, and my Maxpedition & speed strip pouch, along with my flashlight ring all stay in place. Since this is my “quick reaction” set-up it means that when I put it on to respond to a “sensor trip,” I have 14 wireless passive infra-red sensors covering the property outside, that all my gear is always in a positive location once I get the belt clipped closed & the gun positioned. After it’s on all I have to do is slip my flashlight in its ring and I’m pretty much geared up. With this system I can have my handgun, primary flashlight, spare ammo, knife, small spare flashlight, as well as a few other possible’s ready to go so I just have to sling my shotgun & night-vision device before hitting the door. When things “get busy” I can go from a sensor trip to being outside in about a minute, less if I don’t put my ghillie coat on.

The Governor is the first gun I’ve tried in the Merlin that has taken up so much room, which is due to its longer cylinder. The frame length is more of a determining factor than anything else. For the Governor I found that any grip style that covers the back-strap makes it a tight fit down at the very bottom of the grip frame, due to the fact that the bottom front of the frame hits the tapered part of the holster area and limits how far the front part of the gun can go into the pack. I can get it to close with covered back-strap grips it’s just that the fit is “more snug” than I’m used to so it slows me down when drawing the gun. With the open back-strap Crimson Trace grips it does fit, just barely.

The Merlin also has a tab, which can be used either right or left-handed, for quick opening.
You pull the tab and both front compartment zippers open up.

Here are a couple of older photos, from back in my metal zipper pull days. I think the grey front Merlin has been dis-continued, why I don't know because the color contrast really works well with this design.



Shown below with one of my previous "yard guns," a Charter Arms Patriot in .327 Fed Mag....


Last edited by ogilvyspecial; 10-03-2011 at 02:55 PM.
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  #162  
Old 10-03-2011, 04:26 PM
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Funny stuff... is that screen name for real...... It's as funny as your statement.. but then that's just me too...
Ahahahahahahahah
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  #163  
Old 10-05-2011, 11:52 PM
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Amen! I must be a double fool; I own two.
Amen brother! I neeeeeed another Gov...
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  #164  
Old 10-18-2011, 12:03 PM
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Default Pics & Video done on 7/7/11

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Boy am I looking forward to shooting my new Govenor. My Daughter and son in law baught me 1 for fathers day. I couldn't find a gun shop here in town. I haven't gotten it yet but they will bring it with them in about a week. I've checked all the you tube posts and all of the ones here and again, I'm PUMPED... Post some more results of your personal test when you can. I will do the same soon. I want to take some pictures to show everybody (got to figure out how, but I will). Anybody have any pictures of their testings?
One day after your post, Jeff Quinn did a review on this gun. See:
Smith & Wesson Governor 45 Colt/45 ACP/410 Shotshell Six-Shot Revolver

I'm only on page 5 of this thread, so it may be posted by another later on in the 17 page total. Today is 10/18/11...so I'll be looking for your posts on how you like (or not) this firearm.

Enjoy,
-Pace
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  #165  
Old 10-18-2011, 12:49 PM
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When I got home with my new Governor, 6/13, I had to check S&W's site... they already had a DeSantis/S&W holster for it ~$65 + s/h. A few days later, I had one!



Fits great - very secure - nicely made - a good value. Not a CCW!

Still love my Governor - even if it is not currently loaded as a HD firearm here. Hard to get out of the 642, 4" 64, and 2" 10 protectors loaded with +P 158gr LHPSWCs habit!

Stainz
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  #166  
Old 10-18-2011, 06:15 PM
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My biggest issue with moon clips is I keep getting the ones for the 625 mixed in with the ones for the 610.

Why don't companies make these in different colors for dummys like me?
LOL! Office Depot and many colors! Home Depot and "paint"? Good Grief!
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  #167  
Old 11-02-2011, 12:26 PM
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After receiving my new S&W Governor, I purchased 45 ACP, 45 colt, and personel defense 410 ammo. Shooting the gun was a surprise the little kick it had with all of the differeht types of ammo over shooting a Judge. The Governor seems to have very little kick and my wife can handle it easily. I was shocked. The 45 ACP & Colt were very accurate at 25 feet. I did not shoot at any greater distance.

Dr Jay Park
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  #168  
Old 11-02-2011, 04:03 PM
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I decided to sell my M&P40C (shot once in 3 years), and looking into a Gov, but decided I needed a Marlin 1894 in 44 magnum instead.

I have a lot of other pistols that work just great for self defense.

I will admit I hated to sell a pistol, especially an M&P, but it was a safe queen that was never shot, and I still 3 M&P's - 9mm, 40 S&W, and .45ACP (all full size).
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  #169  
Old 11-02-2011, 09:31 PM
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Exclamation Governor

In a recent trip to my local "pusher"; I experienced a similar sensation when fondling his first Governor. kinda' like endorphens- this could habit-forming.
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  #170  
Old 11-02-2011, 10:05 PM
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I'm not feeling it,....... those that are enjoy.

fcr
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  #171  
Old 11-14-2011, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Stainz View Post
When I got home with my new Governor, 6/13, I had to check S&W's site... they already had a DeSantis/S&W holster for it ~$65 + s/h. A few days later, I had one!



Fits great - very secure - nicely made - a good value. Not a CCW!

Still love my Governor - even if it is not currently loaded as a HD firearm here. Hard to get out of the 642, 4" 64, and 2" 10 protectors loaded with +P 158gr LHPSWCs habit!

Stainz
I am a newbie, first post. Just brought this baby home. Saw your post and bought the holster. Stoked about shooting it this weekend.
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  #172  
Old 11-14-2011, 06:39 PM
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Your going to love it, dont waste time on any other 410s than the redd federal 000 buck though, I spent too much money testing ammo just to come back to it. Do NOT shoot the Tulammo cheap 45acp rounds in there, they stick, everything else shoots like butter. If you shoot from a sandbag you'll be able to see just how accurate this Governor is at 50yards, it's surprising. This gun shoots really well in my opinion, I'm taking mine out again this weekend too. If nothing else it's the most fun gun I own. LOVE YOUR HOLSTER! Man I want one of those too.
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  #173  
Old 11-14-2011, 07:30 PM
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Your going to love it, dont waste time on any other 410s than the redd federal 000 buck though, I spent too much money testing ammo just to come back to it. Do NOT shoot the Tulammo cheap 45acp rounds in there, they stick, everything else shoots like butter. If you shoot from a sandbag you'll be able to see just how accurate this Governor is at 50yards, it's surprising. This gun shoots really well in my opinion, I'm taking mine out again this weekend too. If nothing else it's the most fun gun I own. LOVE YOUR HOLSTER! Man I want one of those too.
Thanks for the tip. I will stick to that. Really excited about this one. Been watching all the YouTube videos I could find LOL.
Got lucky and found one in the town I was working in as my hometown was out until they didn't know when

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  #174  
Old 11-19-2011, 05:22 AM
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Default 2 round moon clips ?????

Okay I searched a little and got bored .. What are the 2 round moon clips for ?? I'm thinking if picking one of these up for the wife and was just curious what the 2 round moon were for ..
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  #175  
Old 11-19-2011, 05:42 AM
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Okay I searched a little and got bored .. What are the 2 round moon clips for ?? I'm thinking if picking one of these up for the wife and was just curious what the 2 round moon were for ..
So you can mix & match the different types of ammo in the cylinder, example, two .410's, two .45 Colts & two .45 acp, or four .410's & two .45 acp's. You get the picture......
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  #176  
Old 11-19-2011, 05:45 AM
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I didn't know you couldn't mix them up on just one clip , the 45 colt and .410 that is .. Thanks again
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  #177  
Old 11-20-2011, 12:05 AM
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I didn't know you couldn't mix them up on just one clip , the 45 colt and .410 that is .. Thanks again
The moon clips are only for .45acp. With the 2-round moon clips you can load as few as 2 x .45acp and then 4 of any combo of .45Colt and .410.
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  #178  
Old 11-20-2011, 12:30 AM
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I got the Governor with the laser grips, strictly for in house defense only. I believe the Governor offers the best defense using the Winchester 410 handgun load. Living in a modest size home the stopping power at close range would be devastating, while not posing a threat to nearby neighbors with over penetration. Also being able to manuver easily/quickly with the gun in an emergency situation sold me. I for one am glad Smith&Wesson decided to offer a better version of the 410 handgun.
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  #179  
Old 11-21-2011, 02:11 PM
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The 410 don't shoot well, but the 45 ACP are good and accurate on a Steel Match. The moon clip fill the space and shoot good.

Last edited by drjpark; 11-21-2011 at 02:16 PM.
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  #180  
Old 11-21-2011, 02:21 PM
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The 410 don't shoot well, but the 45 ACP are good and accurate on a Steel Match. The moon clip fill the space and shoot good.
All depends on which 410 loads you are using. Mine shoots the Federal Handgun 000 Buck load very accurately even out to 10 yards or so. Regular shot loads are useful only at very close ranges.
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  #181  
Old 12-20-2011, 08:22 AM
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Smile s&w govenor grips

just ordered a govenor; i do not like rubber grips and want to replace them with wood. i understand that the grip is a standard k/l frame round butt and will take aftermarket products. please let me know if there is a difference. i plan on an eagle ebony finger groove replacement.
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  #182  
Old 12-20-2011, 07:16 PM
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As far as I know you are correct and any RB K/L frame grips should fit. I actually like the factory rubber Hogue grips as they really handle the recoil comfortably.
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  #183  
Old 12-24-2011, 06:31 PM
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I have a question, has anyone put "the plug" in it?
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  #184  
Old 12-25-2011, 12:19 AM
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I have a question, has anyone put "the plug" in it?
Good Question !
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  #185  
Old 12-25-2011, 10:19 AM
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I have a question, has anyone put "the plug" in it?
What's the plug?
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  #186  
Old 12-25-2011, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by mes227 View Post
What's the plug?
"The Plug" is a piece of metal which replaces the internal lock found on most new S&W revolvers. Most people on here dislike them, if it ain't broke, don't fix. There have been instances when the lock has caused a failure to fire. I just think its plain ugly.





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Old 12-25-2011, 02:08 PM
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Also, come tax return season, I am going to drink the kool-aid on one. Looks to be a lot of fun, and a good snake killer for trips into the desert( actually we have had to put down a rattler out at the range while shooting AR's before.)
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  #188  
Old 12-25-2011, 06:04 PM
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"The Plug" is a piece of metal which replaces the internal lock found on most new S&W revolvers. Most people on here dislike them, if it ain't broke, don't fix. There have been instances when the lock has caused a failure to fire. I just think its plain ugly.





Hate to tell you, but whats the differance between the plug and the lock... still see it.. your chances of a cyl binding or some other failure on a non lock are higher than a I-lock engageing...
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  #189  
Old 12-26-2011, 07:55 AM
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Wow - silver plug against the black Melonite finish of the Governor. Nope, that wouldn't be noticed!

Seriously - the IL is an eyesore - and I don't like it. But... I am a realist. I bought my first IL-equipped revolver, a 4" 625-8, in 9/02. I piddled with it - key in - partially 'On' - and shot it. It always reverted to off. I decided it was safe - and that their engineers knew it was, too. Further proof - after ten years of producing many revolvers with the IL, S&W has yet to spend the first dime defending against it's failure. If there was a real trail of failures, someone would have taken S&W to court... 'we' do for hot coffee, don't 'we'?

It's important to follow your 'feelings' re the IL - I just suggest you do try a modern S&W revolver of your liking - such as the Governor - whether it is IL-equipped or not. You can always remove it - plug it - and hope whatever holds the plug on doesn't work loose under recoil... that could tie up the lockwork! Oops...

I hope everyone had a great Christmas and that Santa brought someone a Governor... but, wouldn't that technically be a 'straw purchase'? Gads, something else to worry about!

Stainz
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  #190  
Old 12-26-2011, 08:49 AM
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I have several revolvers with the lock, and no issues ever arose.

Back to topic.
My brother's house got broke into a month ago (guy got loose from an alcohol rehab center and when my bro confronted him with a shotgun the guy begged to be shot. Instead he talked the guy down until the police showed up, but the whole event un-nerved my SIL to the point of her asking patients about handguns. Mind you, before this not even her husband was allowed to show their 2 yr old xon a photo of a pistol! He called me asking about a taurus judge, and I said to spend the extra and get a gov. Next Saturday we are getting together so she can learn to shoot and try out a few different revolvers. I thought we would start out with the 617 22, then the 686 with 38 Special loads, then the 625 in 45ACP to see if she can handle the governor with 45 loads. Might even take the M&P 9mm, but doubt she could rack the slide (my wife also has issues like that - reasons why she shoots the 686).

I'm very excited, if for no other reason that if they get a gov I get to shoot it!
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  #191  
Old 01-31-2012, 01:45 AM
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I wish that these were made without the IL!
Also
Any issues pooping up with these yet!?
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  #192  
Old 01-31-2012, 12:56 PM
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This has to be the longest thread I ever started, and I'm glad to see so much interest in this exceptional revolver. Besides the many practical applications, it's just a fun gun to shoot. Those here who have bought them know just what I'm talking about.
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  #193  
Old 04-09-2012, 03:57 PM
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I will maintain to my last breath that unless you are in snake country, the S&W Judge, er, I mean S&W Governator, is so impractical as to be just short of worthless.

.410 shot shell 'self defense' loads?

Don't make me laugh.

99.8% of people in the REAL world do NOT need a .410 'sort-of-compact' revolver.

And, it just makes me want to cry: after so many decades of Taurus BLATANTLY ripping off S&W revolver designs, now S&W has BLATANTLY ripped off a Taurus 'innovation', as impractical as it is.

I won't say you couldn't give me one, because I *would* take it, and IMMEDIATELY sell it to some fool, and buy a REAL handgun.

Let's face it: a Hi Point 9mm is a FAR more practical handgun, than the S&W Governator.

I cannot believe how much press the Judge got....and how many FOOLS bought them.

NOW, there is an even MORE expensive, but essentially IDENTICAL, copy on the market.

It's S&W stealing a design from Taurus, and a very bad design, at that.

This just in: S&W is adding a SECOND lock to ALL their revolvers, as well as TWO locks on ALL semiautomatic handguns; one on each side of all S&W handguns.

All older S&W handguns, sent to S&W for ANY kind of service, will have redundant safety locks installed.

Crying, and film, at 11PM.
If you want to cry, cry about all the manufacturers ripping off the Colt 1911 design. Get real.
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  #194  
Old 04-09-2012, 05:13 PM
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The thing is, I'd trust my life with my S&W pistols.

I wouldn't trust a used egg shell with a taurus.
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  #195  
Old 04-09-2012, 08:03 PM
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Just put my useless *** Govenator on layaway tonite at S&W!!! I can't wait to get it ... but then, I guess I have to.. but it won't be for long!!

Oh ya... for the record... The Governor and the new Judge, the one that has some kind of plastic frame... have absolutely nothing in common beside the rounds they shoot.. I happened to stop at one of my LGD's, he just got back from Fl. bringing the Judge back so I got to handle it.. YUK, what a ***, I thought it was a toy gun at first, the hammer is a complete joke, when I finally cocked it, was about a 3" pull to get it to lock back, I was afraid it was gonna break... nope, nothing in common with a Governor...
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  #196  
Old 04-09-2012, 09:38 PM
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No use for the Gov. in my scenario. Me thinks 40-50 handguns and 60-70 long guns can do just about anything that the Gov. might be capable and then some.

People graduate with degrees in marketing all the time. S&W and Taurus hired some but most of the real wackos get hired over at Mossberg... Some of their current offerings are, uh, odd?
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  #197  
Old 04-09-2012, 11:37 PM
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I would like to try one someday. I have a ton of practical guns, sometimes I want one just because it is fun to shoot or own. Heck I have bought guns just because they looked cool or I didn't have one of that type. I have bought guns that I have had no intention of shooting.
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Old 04-10-2012, 04:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgiaShooter View Post
Exactly, on both comments. Watch the videos of Hickok45 shooting a steel 55 gallon drum. The discs with their flatness bounce off half the time and can't penetrate where the rings are but the Federal 000 punch through the thick steel barrel effortlessly at about 25 feet in his tests. When I run out of my PDX rounds I will buy only the Federal 000 from now on. Today at the range I was actually slamming rocks and dirt clods at 50 yards with the 000. I almost couldn't believe they stayed in any kind of a group that far out.
Watch "Hickok45" shooting the FNP-45 Tac. .... a "410" may be as bad as a broken baseball bat! Don't try to put a "man" down with a "snake gun"! !!
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  #199  
Old 04-10-2012, 06:10 AM
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No use for the Gov. in my scenario. Me thinks 40-50 handguns and 60-70 long guns can do just about anything that the Gov. might be capable and then some.

People graduate with degrees in marketing all the time. S&W and Taurus hired some but most of the real wackos get hired over at Mossberg... Some of their current offerings are, uh, odd?
I kinda like the idea of having a gun that can do what it takes 3 guns to do... great marketing S&W, 3 guns for the price of 1!!
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Old 04-10-2012, 09:53 AM
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If a man is coming up my stairs with a gun in his hand after me I'l like to think the .420 would at least slow him down or make him decide to give up before I had to use even more deadly force.

To me "Officer, I was in fear for my life, and I tried to make him stop by shooting him with a .410 load before I used the .45ACP round" sounds a lot more "self defense".
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S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present Thread, S&W Governor in Smith & Wesson Revolvers; I just read an article about the Gov in the Nov 2011 issue of Comnat Handguns. They chronographed several loads. ...
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Inside the Judge?s Chamber | Shooting Illustrated This thread Refback 04-22-2012 07:47 PM
S&W Governor - Page 2 This thread Refback 03-23-2012 04:38 PM
.410 Revolvers - Guns & Ammo This thread Refback 02-20-2012 06:22 PM

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