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S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present All NON-PINNED Barrels, the L-Frames, and the New Era Revolvers


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  #1  
Old 07-06-2011, 07:34 AM
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Default Competition against the 617 at last…

And I don’t mean using the 617 in shooting competitions… No, I mean every time I see a brand new 617 or even a brand new 63 I am blown away by the price tag. She wanted a cheap .22 LR revolver so when we looked at S&W’s offerings we walked right by them. I know they cost just as much to make as a center fire gun and I have heard all the other arguments so this may boil down to current S&W pricing period. But now that Ruger is making a serious effort at a successful come back with the SP101 in .22LR I feel like there will be a high quality .22 revolver that I might be able to afford. 617’s where I am are regularly hovering around a near $800 price tag. The MSRP on the Ruger is over $600 but like most of their on the shelf pricing I expect it to be at least a hundred under that amount. I love my S&W’s and they just recently did very right by me but I still insist they are driving myself and I can only assume others away with those price tags. And the worst of it is that I have picked up some brand new 617’s that looked pretty rough. With the S&W you are supposed to be paying for that extra level of fit and finish in your gun. With Ruger you are saving that money since they don’t go that extra mile in polishing down every little bit. I really didn’t mean to make this such a S&W vs. Ruger thing. I just really hope that finally with some serious competition they might either pick up the quality on the 617’s or at least maybe do a price drop or attractive rebate program like they did with the Airweights a year ago.
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Old 07-06-2011, 07:43 AM
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The Guns & Ammo article that detailed the return of the SP-101 as an 8 shot, adjustable sight model was apparently released in error. Over on the Ruger forums there has been much discussion about this subject. Ruger has stated they are "Not currently producing a .22 caliber SP-101 and that none is slated for production at this time." Now, we all know they said the same thing about the rumored Ruger 1911, which did turn out to be a reality, so we can hope Ruger is just sandbagging again.

I agree with the OP -the pickings for a high quality new .22 DA revolver are slim. Spend $$$$ for a Smith 617, "Classic Model 17 or 18" or used S&W or gamble on a Taurus for $$$. Ruger should make the SP-101 in .22 and .22 Mag. I'd buy one for my shooting collection.
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Old 07-06-2011, 08:05 AM
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If this link directs to the right FB page then you will see the article shouldn’t have been in print so soon. They are supposed to be ready for shipping August 1st.

Just to clear things up.... | Facebook
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Old 07-06-2011, 08:21 AM
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It seems that a lot of people are reminiscing about prices in the oast without considering the wages at the same time. They also want to purchase manufactured items on the cheap while expecting to earn high wages - a natuional dilema. If you want jobs in the USA then you have tompay prices comensurate with the wages earned in the USA. The other option is to purchase items from low cost producers abroad untilthe last person in USA manufacturuing turns the lights out.
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Old 07-06-2011, 08:45 AM
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Just wanted to mention that Model 617's were tagged at $650 a month ago at our local gunshow so a lot of that $800 might be markup.
Also Clean used model 17 and 18's sell routinely near $500.
If your a true Smith fan you will probably regret buying something less than the real Mccoy.
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Old 07-06-2011, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TSQUARED View Post
It seems that a lot of people are reminiscing about prices in the oast without considering the wages at the same time. They also want to purchase manufactured items on the cheap while expecting to earn high wages - a natuional dilema. If you want jobs in the USA then you have tompay prices comensurate with the wages earned in the USA. The other option is to purchase items from low cost producers abroad untilthe last person in USA manufacturuing turns the lights out.
Unless you are trying to tell me Ruger pays slave labor wages or will be having theirs made in Mexico instead of Arizona then I just don't quite see where you are going with this...

And my dilema is all the cost cutting measures that S&W has done while still being the top price tag in the LGS...
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Old 07-06-2011, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Engine49guy View Post
Just wanted to mention that Model 617's were tagged at $650 a month ago at our local gunshow so a lot of that $800 might be markup.
Also Clean used model 17 and 18's sell routinely near $500.
If your a true Smith fan you will probably regret buying something less than the real Mccoy.
I have either been committed to something else at the time or just been without funds and had to pass up a couple of good deals on used 17's and 617's recently. So I admit fault in that. But I have yet to see a sub $700 brand new 617 here in North Florda yet. One that I picked up had a visible cant to the barrel, rough machining on the star, and the cylinder was really wobbly. I will still feel like a S&W fan while I still complain about seeing guns in this condition NIB on the shelf. But I won't say I regret any of my Rugers yet. I do prefer a fine S&W still, but a "fine" S&W is getting to be really hit or miss these last few years. The top shlef price for what we keep seeing is just getting under my skin. I just started looking for a good deal on a 442 and the two I have looked at I handed right back due to quality control reasons. Add to that I am getting a little angry about all the cracked aluminum frames I keep seeing since I had my own episode. I don't know if someone upstairs is just getting bloated on profit and has slacked out on Q/A, but I still feel like I'm a true believer... Even if I'm starting to feel like these are dark days...
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Old 07-06-2011, 02:58 PM
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You should not compare the SP101 to the 617 but to the J frame kit gun. Ruger will have a winner with this one.
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Old 07-06-2011, 03:07 PM
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You should not compare the SP101 to the 617 but to the J frame kit gun. Ruger will have a winner with this one.
i agree. it is a nice looking gun! wouldnt mind owning one
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Old 07-06-2011, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steamloco76 View Post
The Guns & Ammo article that detailed the return of the SP-101 as an 8 shot, adjustable sight model was apparently released in error. Over on the Ruger forums there has been much discussion about this subject. Ruger has stated they are "Not currently producing a .22 caliber SP-101 and that none is slated for production at this time." Now, we all know they said the same thing about the rumored Ruger 1911, which did turn out to be a reality, so we can hope Ruger is just sandbagging again.

I agree with the OP -the pickings for a high quality new .22 DA revolver are slim. Spend $$$$ for a Smith 617, "Classic Model 17 or 18" or used S&W or gamble on a Taurus for $$$. Ruger should make the SP-101 in .22 and .22 Mag. I'd buy one for my shooting collection.
Then I wonder who built the one the guy is playing with???????
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Old 07-06-2011, 08:31 PM
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Then I wonder who built the one the guy is playing with???????
If that is the prototype then the production gun had better be exact same offering.
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Old 07-06-2011, 08:57 PM
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My 3" 63 was $631 last Thanksgiving... and the price is a little less now ($609 on G-B). I'll bet that .22 SP-101, when it finally hits the marketplace - will be <$100 less. As to quality - Rugers, from my experience (BBH, BH, RH, SBH, SP-101, SRH, SSM, & Vaquero), are delivered as 'works in progress' - and need cleanup to function. My new 4" .32 H&RM SP-101 was the worst QC firearm I have ever bought. After lots of TLC, I shot it for some time. It - and it's caliber sibling, a 4.6" SS BHG SSM - had chambers barely within specs (.337+"), resulting in short brass life (1-3 reloads). The cheesy windage-only adjustable rear sight on the .22/.32 SP-101's was laughable. At least this new offering has an inset fully ajustable BH-style rear sight.

No, I won't get in line for the new Ruger... I've found my DA .22's. I bought the 617 with my KMK-678GC (MKII) sale income - and never looked back. I have fewer firearms now - but I have what I want - S&W revolvers.

Stainz
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Old 07-06-2011, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mack View Post
You should not compare the SP101 to the 617 but to the J frame kit gun. Ruger will have a winner with this one.
The grips are rather nice looking on that new Ruger. Rubber with wood inserts?
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Old 07-06-2011, 09:57 PM
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Can't quite go with the OP on this one. Even if the sp101 was $250 lower than a 617, I wouldn't bite. In the long term scheme of things, $250 is a small price to pay to get what you really want.

I've owned (note the tense) 3 sp101s. I own (note the tense) every Smith I've ever purchased. I am currently looking for a 617 and will buy the first one I can put hands on. Just don't see them much around my parts.

It's kind of like buying a 22 rifle for under $200 or getting a 39a for between $300-$500. There's really no comparison and most of us that went the 39a route haven't looked back. I suspect this is how I will be when I land a 617.
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Old 07-06-2011, 10:29 PM
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Who says you have to buy new? I picked up both of these 617-4s used a couple of years ago and paid much less than if I would have bought them new. There are deals out there, you just need to keep looking.



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Old 07-06-2011, 10:35 PM
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I was thinking the same thing........if Ruger isn't making the .22 SP101, who made the one pictured in the magazine article?
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Old 07-06-2011, 11:03 PM
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Perhaps the best $500 I ever spent on a used revolver !

Jerry

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Old 07-06-2011, 11:07 PM
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I picked up a 617 with a 6" barrel from gun shop about a year ago...if I recall it ran me $619.00 w/free shipping, $600 is pricey in my book but better than $800
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Old 07-07-2011, 04:15 PM
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I believe it was Florida Gun exchange that had them for $650 but it may have included the $50 rebate.
their website isnt very user friendly so couldnt check.

I just checked Buds and they have it listed NIB for $670 (when paying cash or debit )
That includes free shipping (S&W recently had a $50 handgun coupon thats worth investigating).
Consumer Rebate Inquiry Line 1-866-963-7933 To Check Status, log onto: www.rebateinquiryonline.com

A quick search found this current $50 off promotion for active , retired or disabled Military or reservists which maybe applies?

http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore...ters_Dec11.pdf

Your local FFL shouldnt charge you more than $30 to do a transfer and if you pay Buds directly with your debit card you dont pay any Tax.

includes the peace of mind of the LIFETIME WARRANTY.


Smith & Wesson 617 .22 Long Rifle 22 LR 4" 10 Shot
Model: 160584 Item Condition: Factory New Bud's Item Number: 26307
Price: $670.00 *

With regards to the aluminum frames cracking at least you have the warranty, hopefully they wont drop the Airweights as a result of the breakage as they are great carry guns.

Personally I do not like shooting my airweights....they are for pocket carry only and it only makes sense that aluminum is not as strong as steel.

This was just a quick check and Im sure if you shop it or are willing to wait for a promotion you will probably get a better price,

Good luck in your endeavor and keep us posted.

Last edited by Engine49guy; 07-07-2011 at 05:21 PM.
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Old 07-07-2011, 04:55 PM
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I hear you about the cost, but I think the gun shops you have been to maybe a bit high. I have been shopping for a 617 as well and have found most of them are priced from $650-$700. I do however have a ruger hunter that has the 22LR and 22 Win Mag cylinder and like it a bunch, but I have always wanted a S&W. I would shop around a bit more and I bet you will find what you want for the price.
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Old 07-07-2011, 06:29 PM
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I paid $600 for a 617-6 8 3/8" 2 weeks ago at a gun show.
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Old 07-07-2011, 11:40 PM
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I never understand why you can't love both.

I was in the market for a .22 DA about 3 months ago. looked at a new model 17 because I dislike Stainless. Price from a buddy with an ffl was $850. Retail was close to $1000.
Sorry, Smith or no, that was crazy talk.
I opted for a K-22 because the other option was a Taurus 94, and if you have handled them, which I did a lot when looking, you will never complain about a Ruger again.
A also own 4 Rugers, a Mk II, a Vaquero, an LCP and a GP100, and have had zero problems with any. The Mk II is mid 80's vintage, and has eaten several 100,000 rounds in it's life without any problems. I just replaced the slide stop because it was worn, but that is to be expected.

Ruger produces a pretty darn good gun at a reasonable price point.

I admire Bill Ruger as much as Horace Smith or Daniel Wesson. I like thier products, and think a decent quality new $450-550 .22 DA revolver will be a hot ticket.
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Old 07-08-2011, 10:24 AM
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This little Ruger has been in development for a couple of years now. I had the opportunity to handle and fire one over two years ago, while they were still having problems with getting the sights regulated to POA. There are some pre-production ones out there, and their Face-Book article mentions they are due for release about the first of August. My guess is they will be on the shelves in time for Christmas shopping. My guess is the street price will be about the same as a good used Mod 63. The SP101 is much closer in size to a J Frame than a K Frame. I do think they will do well, but are still priced a little too high for the average consumer who just wants a .22 revolver to plink with, and only wants to spend in the $300 range. I don't think they will fly off the shelves.
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Old 07-08-2011, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TSQUARED View Post
It seems that a lot of people are reminiscing about prices in the oast without considering the wages at the same time. They also want to purchase manufactured items on the cheap while expecting to earn high wages - a natuional dilema. If you want jobs in the USA then you have tompay prices comensurate with the wages earned in the USA. The other option is to purchase items from low cost producers abroad untilthe last person in USA manufacturuing turns the lights out.
Sad, but true. We've been heading down this road for a long time. I doubt we'll ever turn around.
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Old 07-09-2011, 12:38 AM
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I agree that a S&W or Ruger .22 revolver in the sub $500 range would be a hot ticket. I have a Taurus 94 and it is what it is. But it's not a Ruger or Smith.
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Old 07-09-2011, 08:34 AM
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good luck on your search for a 617. they are out there, and you'll probably find a good deal on one long before Ruger ever produces anything.

buy the cheaper Ruger and you'll either spend more money on a trigger job, or spend countless hours snap cap firing it thousands of times to loosen it some.
i bought a 101 for my mother (that is what she wanted because of its size...and begging her to take my 4" RB 66-4 was all in vain). i have to admit, that Ruger is rugged, but good lord, the trigger felt like it had a 50 lb. pull out of the box. she'll probably get carpal tunnel trying to smooth out the trigger. i gotta make amends and find her a J frame before she disowns me.
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Old 07-09-2011, 08:37 AM
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I have more fun with my 617's at the range than any other handgun (or rifle) i own. they are a blast to shoot, very accurate, and cheap to feed

As for the price, new ones are a little pricey but the older, more desirable pre-lock guns can be found.....i had ZERO 617's as of 01/01/11 and have had 6 and currently own 4.....they are out there!!!!
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Old 07-09-2011, 09:05 AM
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I have yet to spend money on a trigger job for either brand. With minimal research I have found it to be pretty easy to learn to smooth either one out. The Ruger actually takes less time for me. And I find the SP101 to me much closer to a K frame than a J frame. But to be honest it is somewhere between the two. The Model 63 is a slightly smaller gun in my hand from the one I have held. It was really nice but just smaller than what I'm looking for. At some point I may own a good example of all of them.
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Old 07-09-2011, 09:05 AM
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Ruger just came out with a 10 shot single action, the sp101 will fill another hole, smart moves for ruger IMO.
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Old 07-12-2011, 06:43 PM
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I agree with those that equate the (proposed) new Ruger .22 revolver with the Smith Model 63, .22/.32 J-frame "Kit" gun as opposed to the K-frame Model 17/617. I shoot Bullseye competition and a K-22 (or Colt Officers Special/Match) sized revolver is more of a target revolver than anything much smaller.
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Old 07-13-2011, 08:12 AM
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I just paid too much money for a no-dash 617, but it was the exact version that I wanted; 4" barrel and a 6 shot cylinder. S&W only made the no dash 617 for three years then started to do things to it which were not to my taste, like aluminum and 10 shot cylinders, not to mention the dreaded lock. I plan on keeping it, so who ever gets it next will have to deal with my heirs or be more foolish with their money than I am.
I see the new SP-101 as being a pretty good option for those whose can't find or afford a 617. I think that it will compare in size more closely to a K frame than a J frame especially with more hand filling grips.
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Old 07-17-2011, 10:58 PM
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Several after market spring kits availible to help reduce the trigger effort by reducing the trigger return spring. Also reduced mainspring to make double action better. Very easy to install and it helped my GP100 a lot.
Check Midway, Natchez, or Brownells.



Quote:
Originally Posted by jughed440 View Post
good luck on your search for a 617. they are out there, and you'll probably find a good deal on one long before Ruger ever produces anything.

buy the cheaper Ruger and you'll either spend more money on a trigger job, or spend countless hours snap cap firing it thousands of times to loosen it some.
i bought a 101 for my mother (that is what she wanted because of its size...and begging her to take my 4" RB 66-4 was all in vain). i have to admit, that Ruger is rugged, but good lord, the trigger felt like it had a 50 lb. pull out of the box. she'll probably get carpal tunnel trying to smooth out the trigger. i gotta make amends and find her a J frame before she disowns me.
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Old 07-17-2011, 11:24 PM
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I have a bunch of S&W revolvers including a no dash 617 with 6 inch barrel and several other S&W 22LR revolvers and they have all been great. However, over the years I've also owned many Ruger Rifles and revolvers and they have all functioned flawlessly so I won't bash them because they have always made a very good product. I owned a Ruger Mark II and recently gave it to my son because he loved it and it's as accurate a shooter as either of the two S&W Model 41's I own and the Ruger mark II has never had any feeding problems or have the S&W Model 41’s.

I don't get the brand bashing and it having to be one over the other. I own many bolt action rifle brands including Sako, Sig Sauer, Winchester Model 70 pre 64, Ruger Model 77, Browning, and HR and all of them are excellent and accurate. Yea I have HR on the list because in the 60's they imported Sako and FN Mauser barreled actions and put a California style stock on them and they built them into the 300 Ultra Rifle and they were about as good as it got for 1/2 the price of the those brands factory originals.

The wonderful thing about our hobby is we all have choices and different tastes and we can spend our hard earned money any way we want.
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Old 07-19-2011, 08:55 PM
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I agree, Smiths up north here go for what ever the market bears. A good model 17 around $6-700. Thats pretty good money. Ruger will have a real seller out there. Can not wait to see one.
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