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S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present All NON-PINNED Barrels, the L-Frames, and the New Era Revolvers


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Old 08-26-2011, 11:45 PM
scooter123 scooter123 is offline
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Default For those interested in the 625JM - Updated Renge results

Picked mine up today. Date of test firing for the enclosed casing was 8-10-2011, so they are currently being shipped. Ordered mine through firearms distributor Sports South last Saturday and as of today they are still listed as being in stock. Anyone who wants a 625JM, get on the Sports South web site, locate a local dealer rep, order it up and you'll have it in less than a week.

Now for the good, bad, and ugly on first inspection.

First, the barrel is mounted slightly over-rotated as seems common with recent production. I'll test shoot it this weekend and see how well it shoots with the rear sight centered and how much it has to be shifted to zero the sighting. If it doesn't take much to dial it in at 25 yards I consider it a non issue.

A second more concerning issue was the B/C gap. On the port side it checked at 0.004 inch and on starboard it was 0.0025 inch. That would be an issue with enough rounds downrange, so I got out my diamond lap and squared up the rear of the barrel. Now that gap is between 0.005 and 0.006 inch, meaning a 0.005 shims slides in freely and a 0.006 shim won't fit. Only took about 1/2 hour, gotta love diamond cutting tools. IMO a gap this tight should not have gotten past QC, however my local dealer stated that S&W is currently flogged by some military contracts so they've probably thinned out inspection in other areas, meaning they've pulled inspectors from the revolver production. My dealer reported that this contract will tie up personel into this coming December, so I expect we'll be seeing some complaints about Quality falling off. Aint great news but at least S&W is very responsive about fixing the clunkers that get out. However since it was tight it was easy to correct, so I'd rather have it too tight than too loose.

Thats the ugly part of the news. Now for the good.

This matte finish is really rather appealing, however I'm curious to see how it holds up in use. If it tends to get patchy I'll probably give the gun a full polish. I'm also liking the god bead front sight, it doesn't take much light at all to make it visible. IMO that good bead may be the answer I've been looking for when shooting at an indoor range.

More good news is the timing is flat out perfect on every single chamber and it's got the tightest lockup of any new S&W I've ever handled. The barrel crown is also perfectly centered. All this bodes well for it producing great accuracy.

Cylinder measurements using American Eagle 230 gn. FMJ. With a 0.039 inch thick moon clip the case head to cylinder measurement is 0.088 inch. With a loose round headspacing off the case the same dimension measures 0.072 inch. BTW, case length for this ammo measures 0.895 inch, just 0.003 inch under the 0.898 specification. End results is the headspacing is 0.013 inch deep for a perfect length case. If the tolerance for case length is +/-0.010 inch, this depth is probably a good compromise to insure rounds with a long case don't rub on the recoil shield. BTW, finishing in the chambers was absolutely perfect, absolutely no machining marks at all. Actually the finish was so good that I wonder if they aren't now using the ECM process on the cylinders because there are absolutely no machining marks at all.

Now for the trigger. Flat out do NOT like serrated service width triggers. Knew it had that when I ordered it and have a smooth MIM case colored target trigger that I had ordered from Numrich's. It won't match the hammer, may give S&W a call and see if I can purchase a case colored MIM hammer to match.

The grip is also a no go for me. Too small and I'm not a fan of smooth wood grips. I also find the coler of the wood rather bland, almost looks like Ash instead of Walnut. Fit to the grip frame also isn't perfect, there is a gap on the starboard side that will allow a 0.012 shim to start and a 0.007 shim to fully insert into that gap. Have the 500 Magnum monogrip coming Monday so the wood grip will go into the grip stash.

One item I will definately be purchasing is a moon clip loader. Loading up 16 clips was just about all my thumbs could take, these are NOT the easy peasy moon clips for the 610. Already have a demooner I made up after work last night, basically a T handled copy of the screwdriver types and it works slicker than snot. With luck it'll also work for my 610.

Finally, measurements of trigger weights for those who may be curious. The DA trigger pulll measures at 11 lbs. 8 ounces with my Lyman digital trigger gage. The SA trigger is 4 lbs. 6 ounces. Like other recent N frames I've handled or owned, there was nearly zero staging in the trigger, so I expect it will clean up to be absolutely superb with a bit of tuning.

Both of these will change this weekend. I had ordered some Cylinder and Slide firing pins and they arrived Wednesday. For those who are curious, both firing pins recieved measured at 0.510 inch. The travel slot for the retaining pin is also 0.045 inch longer than the standard factory firing pins from my 610 and 620 that were replaced, BTW length on those measured at 0.478 and 0.481 inch. Because these firing pins are so long, I intend to test for function with the DA trigger set to 8 lbs. 0 ounces or as close as I can get with the strain screw shims I have on hand. I'll also drop in a 14 lbs rebound spring to reduce the SA trigger pull to the 3 lbs. range. Warning to those considering the C&S firing pins, these new pins are long enough that a pierced primer is a distinct possiblity if you don't lighten the trigger pull first, DO NOT install these pins in any revolver with the factory spring setup. If you stick a firing pin in the primer it won't be easy to get it free.

As you can see, I didn't pull any punches and the example I received wasn't perfect. However the only issue that caused immediate concern was the B/C gap and I had the skills and tools to correct it pretty quickly. What really impressed me was the condition of the chambers in the cylinder, that finish is so good it looks like a computer model. I'm also imressed with the timing, I tried as hard as possible to get it to miss time with a super slow LEFT handed trigger stroke and the stop dropped in every time. Then there is the lockup, I have never in my life handled a S&W with a lockup this tight, at most there is only about 0.004-5 inch of total wiggle. Bottomline, on balance it's an exceptionally well made revolver but it did have some issues.

Last edited by scooter123; 08-27-2011 at 05:01 PM.
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Old 08-27-2011, 12:16 AM
mes227 mes227 is offline
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Excellent and detailed review, thank you. I picked up a used JM a while back, great gun but has some of the same quirks you've mentioned (though I've done less detailed measuring). Overall it's a fantastic gun - I am of two minds about the grips. So far I've left the factory wood JM grips on...will wait 'til the weather changes to see if I need to change those - they work well both indoors and summer outdoors.
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Old 08-27-2011, 12:52 AM
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Thanks for the review, it was very detailed.
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Old 08-27-2011, 08:16 AM
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Yes, good report but...
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Old 08-27-2011, 08:39 AM
scooter123 scooter123 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Palmetto Sharpshooter View Post
Yes, good report but...
LOL, pics will be coming, just give me a bit of time. Also don't expect them to match the superb quality exhibited by many on this forum, you guys really know your stuff when it comes to firearms pictures and I have a lot to learn.

Further update. Just finished tuning the action and the DA trigger is at 7 lbs. 14.5 ounces with the SA trigger at 3 lbs. 2 ounces. Also weighed it with the trigger gage just out of curiosity, unloaded with the JM grip it's 2 lbs. 13.0 ounces, or 45.0 ounces total. Loaded with 6 rounds of 230 gn. American Eagle it's 3 lbs. 0.03 ounces. BTW, anyone considering the purchase of the Lyman Digital trigger gage, buy it, for the price it's an excellent easy to use trigger pull gage.

Turned out that "N frame" MIM trigger I ordered from Numrich's isn't a match for the features on the trigger that came in the 625, pin count and locations of the pins in the trigger for the hand spring are different. So I got out the Dremel and took the bite out of the serrations and radiused the edges of the trigger face. Some of the serrations remain but it's a lot more comfortable. I'd really like to have the blued MIM Service hammer and smooth Target trigger in this gun and will call S&W to see if they will sell me the parts.

Finally, I measured the factory firing pin in order to see what S&W is currently installing. Overall length of the firing pin that shipped in my 625 was 0.488 inch.
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Old 08-27-2011, 09:04 AM
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I bought my 625JM 2/05 when they first became available. After easing the DNA-sampling trigger in situ with some strips of emery cloth and doing a spring and strain screw replacement, I began shooting it with abandon. I do use Federal primers in my Starline revolver-only brass, which loads easily by hand in the steel moonclips (Ranch Products - same as S&W supplies.) - no ftf's. Go to UMC 250 packs of ball ammo(Wally World $86), and 1 in 6 or 12 will have a ftf. It's a 'fun' shooter here - and I have plenty of homebrews ready for it'

In the following picture, from early last winter, you'll note no 'bright spots' in the bead blast flat finish. It's never been in a holster. Also, the .250" height fiber optic tube front sight replaced my gold beaded Patridge within days - it's still there - as are the JM grips. In fact, the 627 Pro (same sight!) in the picture now has a JM grip on it - the grip grows on you!



My 625JM has sent thousands of mainly 230gr FMJ bullets downrange, as well as probably a thousand .45 Auto Rims loaded with 255gr LSWC's. The only ftf's were found to be caused by a loose strain screw - it must be tightened periodically (Okay, twice in 6.5 years!). It is a dependable and fun revolver. Mine came near perfect - .005 (now .006) inch B/C gap, centered muzzle crown, perfect timing, great DA trigger, and a fast and fidgetless grab with that JM grip. I thought a 6.5+ year report might be appreciated.

Stainz
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Old 08-27-2011, 05:43 PM
scooter123 scooter123 is offline
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Just got back from the range. As noted in a prior post I've tuned the trigger to 7 lbs. 14 ounces double action and 3 lbs. 2 ounces single action. I've also installed a Cylinder & Slide extended length and travel firing pin that measured at an overall length of 0.510 inch.

Shot 48 rounds of American Eagle 230 gn. FMJ in moon clips and 50 rounds of Speer Lawman 230 gn. FMJ without moon clips. Function in double action was 100% perfection and both the moon clipped and the headspaced casings showed good firm firing pin impressions. Did not see any evidence of cracking in the primer dimples so at this trigger weight the C&S firing pin is not overstriking the primers. However, I would NOT recomend using this firing pin with the trigger at factory weight, IMO too much risk of that pin piercing the primer and getting stuck.

Now, concerning that cocked barrel. I had to shift the rear sight to nearly it's full extent of travel to zero the sight. I'm currently considering contacting S&W and having them straighten the barrel on the frame. However, I'm going to wait until the 500 Magnum grips arrive because I was having minor issues with recoil management with the JM grips installed.

Fact is that I didn't group very well with it today. Didn't find the JM grip a good fit and kept getting pinched by it under recoil. Also chose to shoot at a range that keeps the Speer Lawman in stock and this particular range doesn't have functional booth lights. With my eyesight that's not good for shooting tight groups. Good news is that the gold bead was visible, bad news is the rear sight blade wasn't and the astigmatism in my dominant eye produced a horizontally skewed double teardrop of that bead. Shot well enough to keep them in a 5 inch shoot-n-c at 30 feet but that is all I could do. Next time out I think I'll put my scope on it and wring it out a bit at a local 50 yard indoor range and do a bit of benchrest shooting just to see what it can do.

Now concerning the cylinder. As noted in my initial report the chambers in the cylinder are the most perfect I've ever seen in a revolver. However, the entries need chamfering, something I'll do when I take it down to clean it up. I have diamond burrs for my Dremel so chamfering the cylinder is only about a 10 minute task. Loading the moon clips was a bit fussy in it's present state. Good news is those perfect chambers meant that loose rounds could be shaken free with a firm shake. To be honest, IMO the current production sample I have is good enough that moon clips really aren't needed, any rounds that didn't fall free could easily be picked out by snagging the rim with a fingernail.

Finally concerning the recoil for those questioning how it feels. IMO it's about equal to a 38 +P in something like a model 15 or tapered barrel model 67. Quite simply you feel it but it's nothing like 357 Magnums in my model 620. For those looking to stepping up from 38 spl. in something like a model 686, it's a step up but not a huge step.
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Old 09-03-2011, 07:46 PM
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Spent a bit more time at the range with the 625JM. This time it was a local 50 yard indoor range because I wanted to try it at longer ranges. Unfortunately, I dawdled around with house chores this morning and didn't get to the range as early as I wanted to, only had 1/2 hour of range time.

I also couldn't mount the handgun scope like I had hoped to. The mounting rail I have captures the front sight mounting base and it was skewed enough that I didn't know if I would have enough windage correction in the scope. Ended up "stealing" the J Point reflex from my 617. Because I didn't want to shift the zero to properly set it on the 625 I did my shooting using kentucky windage, however it was really a matter of aiming 6 inches low at 25 yards.

Came away with 2 conclusions. One is that the 625 can really shoot. Second is that rushing it is not condusive to good shooting. Kept getting teased with pretty little cloverleafs and then throwing shots wide. End result was a 4 inch hole in the target at 25 yards for 3 moon clips. Then I started shooting it offhand at 25 yards and didn't do badly for an old fart rushing it. Kept nearly every hit in an 8 inch sticker for my 5 remaining clips loaded.

Finally, the 500 Magnum monogrips I ordered finally arrived and I now have this grip on my 610, 620, and 625. Fitup of the new grips on the 610 and 625 is perfect, so they've apparently been tweaked a bit to fit any of the medium and large frame round butt revolvers. I also find that I just love this grip, it may be ugly but it sure makes a difference in shooting for me.

Also spend a bit more time testing the trigger pull now that I have proper snap caps for it. Bit of an odd result there and it may be due to the exceptinally tight lockup. Five chambers come in with a trigger pull of 7 lbs. 10 oz. to 8 lbs. 0 oz. but one come in at 7 lbs. 2 oz. I suspect that on 5 of the chamber positions there is just a hint of hand/stop binding and the one position likely indicated where the trigger pull will end up once it's worn in a bit. Frankly, I am a bit surprized that ignition has proven reliable with a 7 lbs. DA trigger, I may have to re-evaluate what I consider the lower limit for reliable ignition. IMO that extra long Cylinder & Slide firing pin is the reason and it's use has resulted in not one single misfire and I saw no hint of vertical stringing when shooting from a rest. Also, ran 30 rounds of Federal Champion downrange without clips in rapid fire DA and function was perfect. It was also a bit fun and the new grips meant that muzzle flip was reduced to the point where I could have shot it faster, however after being asked to slow it down a bit twice I didn't want to push it. That's one downside to shooting late in the day on a weekend, the RO's dont want rapid fire spreading to shooters who aren't up to it.

Now all that remains is to have that cockeye barrel corrected, hopefully turnaround on that will be quick.

Last edited by scooter123; 09-03-2011 at 07:53 PM.
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Old 09-03-2011, 08:49 PM
stevieboy stevieboy is offline
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Here's mine. I picked it up used at a gun shop a couple of years ago. Off the bat it had a serious problem, the barrel-cylinder gap was nonexistent with the cylinder face binding against the forcing cone on every round. With that, accuracy was terrible, it sprayed rounds all over the place and I couldn't manage a 6" group at 10 yards. A local smith corrected the b/c gap to .006" and the gun went from a clunker to a gem. It now shoots like a laser. I added the fiber optic front sight, it's not ideal for bullseye shooting but for quick target acquisition in daylight it cannot be beat.

I've tried every style of grip imaginable with this gun but eventually I concluded that I really liked the JMs. So, I shoot it with those grips.

Love this gun!
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Old 09-04-2011, 12:48 AM
Dale53 Dale53 is offline
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Here's a picture of mine:



You will note that I changed the grips from JM's to Pachmayr Decelerators. I LOVE the Pachmayrs ("Pretty is as pretty does"...).

Here's one of my better targets (25 yards, standing):



Here is another one shot at 25 yards (slowfire target) - note that the bullet is really the Mihec H&G clone of the #68 (not #503):



I once shot ten shots with mine that was loaded with three different powder charges and two different 200 gr bullets at the 25 yard timed fire target (standing, 25 yards) and scored 100. That lack of load sensitivity really speaks well for these revolvers.

FWIW
Dale53
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Old 09-04-2011, 07:09 PM
scooter123 scooter123 is offline
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Dale, thats some fantastic shooting. About the only way I can get close to doing this is with a chair and a good solid benchrest with a sandbag to support my hands. Shooting offhand at 25 yards I'm walking on cloud nine if I can keep them in the black and most days just hitting the paper has to be "good enough".

Hit the range again today, this time the one that lacks lighting in the booths. In spite of that I shot pretty well for an old fart at 10 yards, groupings ran around 4 inches with an occasional flyer. Once I get the barrel straightened up it just may become my favorite (sorry 67-1).

Balance is better that I expected for that full lug barrel and it's a near ideal combination of power and recoil for me. Then there is the trigger, my theory is that it's the trigger stop rod standard to the N frames but every single N frame I've ever handled has featured a DA trigger without any hint of staging. Made it very easy to run it in rapid fire and I got in a good bit of rapid fire shooting in before the range started to fill up.

At this point the only thing I can complain about is the cost for the ammo to run it, at some point I'm going to have to look into reloading. The way I've been running ammo downrange it won't be very long before I have a good stock of fired casings, already have 300 in hand.

In regards to reloading I need a bit of guidance. Specifically in terms of a good single stage press, scale, and other items needed. From what I've heard a single stage press may be slower but it's a better way to start and it won't be often when I can shoot more than once a week. Also need recomendations for powder(s) applicable for 38 spl., 357 Magnum, 40 S&W, and 45 ACP. Finally, need some sources for economical jacketed bullets in all the above calibers, most of my shooters feature ECM barrels and I didn't like the leading that resulted from shooting just 50 rounds of Blazer LRN in my 620.
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Old 09-04-2011, 08:04 PM
amazingflapjack amazingflapjack is offline
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Scoot-The trick to loading lead for the revolver is knowing the dimension of the cylinder throats. John Taffin had a great article in recent months on this. I use pin guages to measure mine-no guesswork. In my 625-8, which is not a JM, but was the platform for it, I use lead swc's that are at or 1/1000 larger than the cylinder throats. Not only are they cheaper, they are very accurate, and easier on the barrel. As to powder and press, I like the Lee 4 hole basic press, and their 4 piece die set, which includes the factory crimp die. Unique is the powder I use, and I use winchester large pistol primers, which are made to accomodate both standard and magnum rounds, and you should allow for that in a 45acp. because they are hotter, but I really like them, especially in the 45acp. I have a Franklin Arsenal small digital scale that I got on sale that has served me well. My 625-8 has had the master revover package, and a FO sight done at S&W, and I have the "mooncliptool.com" and it makes things real easy. I put Excaliber rnd butt-sq butt conversion oversize grips on mine. I have fairly large hands and they work well for me, however, Altamont makes them that are very similar for less bucks. My 625 is easily in the top 3 of my favorite hand guns. Enjoy safely. Flapjack.
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Old 09-05-2011, 09:16 AM
scooter123 scooter123 is offline
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Jack, I appreciate the tip on checking the throats. We have a full set of -2/10ths pin gages at the inspection lab at work so I'll check my cylinder for size.

One other note is that I was looking over my 625 and found something that surprized me. I had assumed that it was fitted with MIM hammer and trigger because that is what was in my 610 and 620. I also have seen posts that led me to believe that S&W was running out of it's stock of forged parts. Last night I was doing a bit of dry firing with it and it was a real surprize when I noticed that the trigger has a solid back on it. Seems the 625JM is shipping with flash chromed forged hammer and trigger. Should have looked closer when I was tuning the action and really should have noticed it when I smoothed out the trigger, however I just didn't look. Hopefully the forged triggers have a high chromium content, otherwise down the road I'll be fighting rust on the face of the trigger where I smoothed it out. I may ask about having MIM hammer and trigger installed in it when I send it in to have the barrel straightened up, not really a fan of narrow triggers and a target width smooth trigger would feel so much better.
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Old 09-07-2011, 12:07 AM
Dale53 Dale53 is offline
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scooter123;
Thanks for the kind words.

I have reloaded since I was age 14 (and that was a LONG time ago). I also started casting my own bullets at that tender age (I had little money and my father was a true "gunny" and encouraged me).

I can also recommend, without reservation, the Lee Classic Turret Press with associated Lee Auto Disc PRO powder measure. It is important to get the Classic Turret. Further, the Pro auto disc. They are both considerably better in several regards.

You can load on the Turret press just like a single stage. However, when you have learned a bit, you can operate it as it was intended and turn out 150-200 rounds per hour. That versatility and actual price value is hard to beat.

You can either choose a digital or a balance scale. Both will work fine IF you get good models. I have both a Lyman and RCBS digital scales. I prefer digital for my uses.

I recommend Titegroup Powder for target loads in most handgun calibers (also works fine for full loads in the .38 Special.45 ACP). In the magnum pistol calibers it is often advantageous to have fast burning powders for target loads (Bullseye or Titegroup as an example), Midrange powders for midrange loads (Unique or Universal) and slow burning powders for full power magnum loads (2400 or H110 as an example).

My 625-8 JM Special has flash chromed hammer and trigger (but has the lock) while my 625-6 has MIM hammer and trigger but no lock. The flash chromed parts are much more attractive but, for me, it's mostly a "I couldn't care less" - my criteria is performance and BOTH of these fine revolvers PRODUCE (adequate power, accuracy, and handling in abundance).

FWIW
Dale53

Last edited by Dale53; 09-07-2011 at 12:17 AM.
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Old 09-07-2011, 07:11 PM
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Great reports Gents. THANK YOU. I'm looking for a 4" 625 to shoot in IDPA and it will just be a heckuva lot simpler to buy a JM 625 than to try to build one. H.
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Old 09-10-2011, 02:50 PM
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I just got back from the range with my new 625-8 (JM).

No issues whatsoever. With the gun that is.

My eyes did not do a good job at 25 yards. I struggled to keep groups in the 5" bullseye.

At 10 meters (33 feet) my groups of 12 were a silver dollar sized hole.

Happy camper here.

next I am going to try Federal FMC 185 wadcutters.

Last edited by DustyJacket; 09-11-2011 at 08:25 AM.
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Old 12-02-2014, 02:29 AM
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Default Smith and Wesson 625 JM

I am from South Africa. I recently ordered a S&W 625 JM. We usually receive only 5 to 20 625 JM revolvers per year in RSA. You guys pay $979 in US. We pay R15 000 to R30 000 for a revolver like this. I have a Colt Python. It shoots like a dream. I can't wait for my S&W 625 JM. Can you share some experience about quality and durability after using the revolver for some time. Thanx enjoy S&W 625 JM
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Old 12-02-2014, 05:00 AM
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625 JM is probably my favorite gun to shoot. (not my best looking Smith though) I updated the grips a couple of times. Changed the front sight to Hi-Viz, which helps old guys. Some bullets will LEAD the bore badly. Have tried different cleaners, and the Chore Boy thing. My best bore cleaning method is to use a 20 ga. shotgun brush. Now I am back to plated bullets. 200 gr. This gun goes to the range more than any other. Bob
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  #19  
Old 12-02-2014, 05:44 AM
at_liberty at_liberty is offline
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Three year old thread should be a new one.
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  #20  
Old 12-02-2014, 04:20 PM
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bananaman bananaman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by at_liberty View Post
Three year old thread should be a new one.
Yes, I saw that! Isn't it amazing? I wonder how long the oldest thread has been here? Somebody is bound to know! Bob
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Old 08-09-2015, 03:04 PM
wkc wkc is offline
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I am new in revolver.I must reduce SA to 3lb before replacing C&S firing to 625JM .Thanks.
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357 magnum, 610, 617, 625jm, 627, 686, bullseye, idpa, military, model 15, model 625, model 686, pachmayr, patridge, primer, rcbs, round butt, scope, screwdriver, serrated, serrations, starline, umc, walnut

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