OK, so a number of you remember my post regarding the canted barrel on my releatively new 686P 4". I finally got back out to the range and got her sighted in. Now my question is this....now that I have adjusted the rear sight (to the left) which resulted in a decent grouping in the right place on the target....what would be considered "acceptable" as far as HOW FAR I had to adjust the rear sight?

I don't have a picture readily available, nor did I count the number of "clicks" I adjusted the rear sight - all I know is I can get a good grouping in and around the center of the target at 7, 15, and 25 yards.

Looking at the rear sight, I still have a ways to go before the left side of the sight would be out to the end of the mounting hardware (sorry, not sure of the proper terminology here) . But it is certainly to the left a fair amount.....obviously (since if it was in the center, it wouldn't be adjusted!!!).

So what I am saying is that you can certainly look at the rear sight and see that it's a good bit to the left, but there is certainly more room to go before the left side of the sight would be even with the mount. So, is that acceptable? I know some will say NO, send it back and get the barrel straightened, but many of you have said if it shooting good, don't worry about it.

Second question - if you had a PERFECTLY straight barrel, are you telling me you should not have to adjust the rear sight and that it should be exactly in the middle? I mean, isn't that a personal thing as to how each of us shoot? I would guess that even with a perfectly straight barrel, some folks may have to adjust the rear sight as far as I did, depending on how they shoot, no??

Thanks!!!

In my book, you're done. That's what adjustable sights are for.

As to how much can be the shooter, well, I bought a used revolver with the rear sight cranked almost as far UP and LEFT as it would go. My first shot with my .38 ammo was way UP and LEFT on the paper at 10 yds. After my original S&W sight adjuster screwdriver got through, the bullets were hitting right at the top of the front sight at 10 yds, and the rear sight looked to be a turn up and a couple left.
Hit an 8" plate at 35yds every shot. Declared success.

__________________
Science plus Art

IMO it's a judgement call. If you have a good range of adjustment left and you aren't greatly offended by it being a bit off center call it good.

I have a 6 1/2 inch 610-3 with the barrel tipped just slightly left and it only took 4 clicks from center to get the sight zeroed so I don't plan on doing anything about it.

On the other hand I have a new 625JM that I picked up last Friday and after zeroing the sight at 50 feet the rear sight is nearly to the limit of it's adjustment. In addition just sighting down the barrel it's pretty obvious the front sight is cocked 3 to 4 degrees left. That one is going back to the factory, however I plan on waiting until I try the 625 out with a scope to see just how well it shoots. BTW, that's a matter of simple curiosity because it seems to shoot well with the iron sights but with my eyesight I need the help of optics to see what my handguns can really do. I'll also note that if IDPA permitted reflex sights in ESR I wouldn't care about the tipped barrel, however since I have to shoot with iron sights in this venue I want the irons correct or close to it.

I have both a 686 plus and a 629 I recently bought new. Both are really nice guns but just like yours, both had a barrel that was turned on past top dead center. I could have adjusted the rear sight blade to make them both shoot right on and just as above remarks state, that will do if it works for you. I have a barrel vice and corrected both guns...I cannot stand something that is not right. In all fairness to the post above, neither gun shoots any better than they would have if I had simply adjusted the sights and called it a day. But again, I cant stand for something to not be "right" and like you said depending on the shooter...I want maximum adjustment either way and also for resale if I ever have to sell the guns I dont want any show stoppers or reasons to have to take less. There has to be a worker at the factory with a crooked head to be messing up on all these guns!!! It is just slap ***** not rocket science to get a barrel on properly.

I came back to this thread to say this - Today, I opened my safe and got out all of my S&W revolvers. None of the pre lock specimens that I own have a canted barrel. I also have two recently purchased 629s with the lock, one with a 6" barrel and one with a 4" barrel. To my disappointed horror, both of them have barrels that are very slightly canted to the left ! It wasn't at all obvious until I specifically looked for it thanks to it being mentioned on this forum.

I've been all over the internet reading about canted barrels on recently manufactured S&W revolvers and evidently there are quite a few of them out there. I've also read about numerous phone calls to a S&W rep and the caller always seems to get the same response "its normal, that's how we adjust the point of aim"!

I know many of you out there have already said this doesn't bother you as long as the gun functions properly. Well, I'm here to say that finding what I found on two of my guns is irritating the living hell out of me and it just plain pizzes me off big time! I can't for the life of me understand why "older" guns aren't like this but many of the recent guns (those with the IL) are . I love S&W but it sure seems to me like they have dropped the ball somewhere along the line. They will definitely be hearing from me very soon !

A properly indexted barrel very rarely results in a rear sight blade sitting in the middle of its adjustment range. Rear sights are made adjustable so that the individual user can "adjust" the point of impact. As long as the group is where I want it I don't care about the location of the rear sight blade. I will not, however, tolerate an over indexted barrel. RG and Rohm didn't do that back in the day and S&W didn't either. No matter what they say it ain't right!

I have a S&W 500 Mag Performance Center Hunter with a 6.5" barrel and a compensator. It was manufactured in 2004. All this talk of over-indexed barrels made me break out in a cold sweat. I had to zip downstairs to my shop and get my revolver out of the safe and look at it from every different angle. Fortunately, it appears the barrel was not over-indexed. It would look awful strange if it was.

__________________
Ralph J.

I really don't see a problem? If your rear sight isn't adjusted all the way over you should be fine. However it's your gun and you have the right to send it back. I disagree with the above poster...a properly clocked barrel should be centered.

If the front sight isn't indexed properly then how could you ever hope to shoot a fixed sight gun to point of aim that wasn't centered? A properly clocked front sight should result in a near centered rear sight give or take for personal differences in perception.

It sounds to me like S&W is trying to cover their butts or blow you off or both. I don't own any Smiths newer than the 60's and they are all straight, fixed and adjustable so I know it can be done. It does bother me that consumers don't hold manufacturers feet to the fire.

There's no reason for it to be. It's a 3 piece barrel with a nut (comp), barrel and shroud, much like the Dan Wesson design.

I wrote to S&W and unloaded my complaint to them. Here's the "form letter" they sent back;

"We apologize that you are experiencing a problem with your Smith & Wesson Handgun.
A review of the handgun by a Smith & Wesson gunsmith will be required.
You may obtain a prepaid / pre-insured Fedex return shipping label directly by clicking the link below.
Warranty Repair Shipping Form - Smith & Wesson
Please allow 1 to 3 business days for the label with instructions to arrive to you via email.
Regards, Frank
1-800-331-0852 Ext. 2905"

I'm quite sure "Frank" won't like the response he got back. Does anyone know the name of the company's president and a way to contact him or her? My hackles are up now and I believe its time to hold these people to the standards they advertise!

Way to lay into them Pa Reb! We are on the same page here and you can add my name to the list. I feel exactly the same as you and NONE of my prelock, pre mim revolvers are the least bit canted as I stated in my last post on this subject. I even carefully checked them a second, then a third time to be 100% sure they weren't.

****** workmanship on S&W's part and I'd keep sending one back till they fixed it right, then sell it to buy another older model if I had one.

Shipment back & forth is not cheap and neither is labor time. If EVERYONE held them to a high standard, shipped ALL of their expensive canted barrelled revolvers back in for repair they might catch on and do the job right the first time. I'm also going to follow your lead and write them as they really need to know folks are unhappy and unhappy folks talk (this forum for example) and don't spend big money on an inferior product, no matter what the magazines say.

Folks don't get me wrong. I LOVE my S&W's dearly! Just hate seeing folks pay big money for a high dollar item that is not correctly assembled right off the line and passed the QA departments standards. I was in Coast Guard aviation for 24 years and quality work, parts and QA checks kept our helos in the air most of the time. If I let a life support component past me like them canted barrels that can easily be spotted with a naked eye my QA letter would be yanked in a heartbeat, never to be seen again. S&W could (should) demand that of their assemblers and quality assurance personell, but it doesn't seem to bother them. Many of these revolvers are used for self defense and I will not spend my money on a product that has such a blatany discrepency. Who knows what other items are either missed or overlooked during the manufacturing process?

__________________
V/R
Roger / SG

They offered to send you a prepaid label for warranty repair, not much more they can do without looking at it. Sounds like their trying to work with you. It's too bad you have to send it back but at least they didn't tell you to pound sand.

I wouldn't be too happy about that either.I've had a couple of the newer guns( good shooters,just prefer the looks of the old ones) and several old ones and I have never seen that.

"A properly clocked front sight should result in a near centered rear sight give or take for personal differences in perception."

And it's THAT difference that makes the rear blade USUALLY sit not quite centered.

You and S&W have obviously missed the whole concept - Its not just the two revolvers I have but it looks as though there are a whole bunch of them out there (as seen on this and other forums). The point is, they are not living up to their stated standards during the manufacturing process and these guns should never go out to the public like that. Offering to have a technician examine it and then send it back in the same condition because "that's how they do it" isn't my byitch nor does it solve their problem. They need to first realize the public isn't going to buy an expensive yet inferior product and then find a soloution to the problem, a problem they are evidently aware of. Why should I, or anyone else for that matter, have to go through the aggravation of sending a gun back to them when all they have to do is make them right the first time around? My job requires close attention to detail or people die and I expect the same type of attention from a company that says they make a highly precise instrument, period! I can't wait to get the company president on the phone !

I always have to adjust the rear sight to the right, on any revolver I shoot. Many semi-autos have to be adjusted too, just not as much for some reason. I don't blame the gun, it's just the way revolvers shoot for me. Maybe bad genes...... As long as it doesn't require more adjustment than is available it's OK.

__________________
Tom
"Panem et Circenses"

PA REB.....hold on a minute there cowboy afore ya shoots yer foot off, go back and read post number 8. My FIRST POST to the OP, you really need to know of what you speak before Assuming I missed the POINT, you understand!

I never gave you permission to take my Second answer to the OP out of context. If you are going to misquote me on a public forum you better pack a lunch just after you get all your ducks lined up in a row. After you READ post 8 then maybe you'll understand what I was saying which pretty much is what you said. Only my response was a day and a few posts AHEAD of you!!

Geesh ya really outta try and work on your sarcasm and try reading everything before making false accusations.

Were these canted sight revolvers inspected before purchase?

__________________
KMAG YOYO

OP here....well, unfortunately, this was my first handgun purchase, and while I certainly looked it over, I wasn't expecting to have to check whether or not the barrel was straight! I just checked general function and operability. My mistake I suppose.

As I have said, my rear sight is adjusted with still plenty of room to go....and my groupings are decent at 7, 15 and 25 yards, so I have a tough time sending it back only to risk something else happening to it. It's not as though it looks horrible or anything. (I included pics in the other thread). But I'd be lying if I didn't tell you it bugs me just a little. Who knows, maybe I'll break down and send her in eventually.

I'm a newcomer to this forum and certainly wasn't trying to be sarcastic my friend and I humbly apologize if it came off like that. I went back and re-read and see what you mean. Since I evidently did indeed misquote you on a public forum, I'm also man enough to send my most humble apology to you via the same public forum. I suppose I should also learn to not wear my heart on my sleeve and learn to heed Vito Corleone's advice in not letting anyone know what I'm thinking. So, I publicly say to you, "I'm sorry!"

And yes, I inspected my guns before purchase but something like this never crossed my mind. I didn't even know the problem existed until I read about it here some time after purchase.

OP ~ Never meant to "hijack" your thread. I'm done complaining here - Sorry all!

All I have to say is ...... shoot em!!!! There is nothing wrong with them, we seem to be splitting hairs here when it is obvious the guns in question have no operational issues or problems. They are all within exceptable shooting specs....

__________________
Jack C

Thanks PA REB,

No problem....

glad i found this thread, inspected a 686 pro i was planning on buying and noticed a canted barrel, it turned me off immediately. I dont care if it shoots straight or not, if im going to drop that kind of money on a tool i want it to be properly "hand-tuned"

I have 2 65-3s with 3 inch barrels made in the early 80s. On one the barrel was just slightly tilted to the left. I did not even see it in the store. I was just happy that it was fairly tight and looked ok.

At the range it shot a little to the right (especially on lighter .38 Special loads), so the theory that S&W cants the barrel to get them on point of aim seems to make sense. The magnum loads were much closer to point of aim -- within 1/2 of inch at 7 yards.

Model 65s though have no adjustable sights, so (being a little anal) I decided to fix the sight alignment and cosmetics by (ever so carefully) filing the lines on the left top side of the barrel as well as the front sight a tiny bit until they centered up with the right side. It also resulted in the point of impact coming to point of aim.

it took several hours over 3 or 4 days (I did it little by little and polished it out as I went so my work would not be obvious -- which would defeat the point of doing the work in the first place -- at least on the cosmetic issue).

Now I cannot even see where there used to be a problem (it was afterall, only a tiny tilt) -- though the front sight is a wee tad thinner than my other 65.

I also noticed that one barrel was about a 1/16 inch shorter than the other. Probably just an initial set up variable. Both are good shooters and fairly tight considering their age. Glad I have them.