S & W service dept......"Don't clean 642 revolver with Hoppes"

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tall gunner

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That's what they told me today when I called about the clear coat on my 642 which seems to be wearing off in areas. I had heard different opinions about whether this was a warranty item or not so I decided to call and ask. First thing he asked me was what did I clean with. When I mentioned Hoppes he said that was the worst thing to use since it was amonia based and would attack the finish. He quoted me a figure to refinish the gun($200) and said I would have to ship it on my dime. When I asked if they would put a different finish on it (say....black) since this one doesn't hold up he said no because they would have to change the model number and they wouldn't do that. Huh? I wonder what the people at Hoppes will think now that their product can no longer be used on the most popular revolver out there? Maybe all this is normal and I just haven't been aware of it until now. Somebody clue me in.
 
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tall gunner said:
...Maybe all this is normal and I just haven't been aware of it until now. Somebody clue me in.
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This topic comes up here now and then. The clear coat finish doesn't seem to have a lot of admirers, and apparently with good reason. S&W could just as easily anodize the frame in nearly any color they chose, but no doubt they do not for the reason you mention - the attractive price makes the revolver very popular.

Most people who have mentioned this before mention S&W suggesting they use other cleaning products - like Break-free. I don't know much about Break-free, but I do believe I would rather have a new 442 than the 642 because of this issue.

The price to refinish does seem a bit high. Several folks here have said S&W will not remove the barrel from an aluminum-frame and they will scrap it if they have to, so maybe the high cost is for a new frame for your gun, and all the hassles (paperwork) associated with that... ? I don't know if that is true, but it wouldn't surprise me.

Can't comment on whether this is a warranty covered defect. I don't recall hearing anyone say repairs for this problem had been covered by warranty service, but I would bet if your owner's manual cautions against using certain cleaning products and suggests using certain ones, you are probably out of luck.
 
The manual does clearly state not to use ammoniated solvents. I googled this topic the other day and the results seemed to indicate Hoppe's #9 is not ammoniated, fwtw.
 
gr7070 said:
The manual does clearly state not to use ammoniated solvents. I googled this topic the other day and the results seemed to indicate Hoppe's #9 is not ammoniated, fwtw.
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IDINGREDIENTCAS NUMBEREINECSEU CLASSIFICATION% WT
1Kerosene008008-20-6232-366-4Xn; 6515 - 40
2Ethyl Alcohol000064-17-5200-578-6F; 1115 - 40
3Oleic Acid000112-80-1204-007-1——
4Amyl Acetate000628-63-7211-047-310-655 - 10
5Ammonium Hydroxide001336-21-6215-647-6N, C; 34-501 - 5

http://www.hoppes.com/msds/Hoppes9/MSDS_Tri-Pac_No_ 9_Solvent-Liquid_Revision_1-3.pdf

up to 5% ammonium hydroxide qualifies, doesn't it?
 
I don't know. Technically, that would presumably satisfy the definition of ammoniated. However, there's some conflicting statements out there.

In addition, S&W's manual states to never use it on *all* their guns. Is S&W really stating to not use what has to be the most popular gun solvent there is? Especially when a couple sentences before they state to stick with products meant for cleanly guns.

My thought would be they are stating to stay away from Hoppe's #9, but I'm not a chemist, metallurgist, or engineer for S&W???
 
I have a Charter carry piece with an aluminum frame and stainless everything else-no clear coat. I have already sent it in once to get rid of the ugly-I carry it everywhere while working around the house-and they media blasted it and sent it back. Maybe you could try that instead of clearcoat? Flapjack.
 
I've only used Break Free on my 642 for cleaning since I bought it 8 months ago and the finish is coming off pretty badly. I clean after every shooting session or every 1-2 weeks, whichever comes first.

Then again, I've fired about 700 rounds through it in that time, with another 2-3 times that dry-firing (at least) during practice drills that involve a lot of handling (drawing, speed reloads, etc.). It's also been my primary carry gun the last few months during some hot and humid weather.

I think the Hoppes issue is only part of the problem. I had a 642 no-dash several years ago with the anodized finish. While I didn't handle it as much as my current 642-1, I don't recall any issues regarding the finish.

Also, I probably wouldn't send it back to S&W for refinishing if they're just going to use the same process, even if they would do it for free. I would probably send it to a refinishing company like Robar and have a better quality finish applied that will likely last longer, even if it ends up costing more.
 
I'm reposting this from an AR rifle forum.

The question is if Hoppe's #9 is safe to use as a cleaning solvent for the AR platform?

For a definitive answer I called Hoppe's (Subsidiary of Bushnell). This is what their response was:

Hoppe's #9 is a safe solvent for all guns. However, prolonged contact with nickel, chrome or aluminum is not recommended with any Hoppe's solvents. In addition chrome or aluminum should not be soaked or submerged in any Hoppe's solvent. The reason is that the slightest scratch or nick in the plating, the solvents will penetrate the flaw and dissolve the underlying copper substrate & cause the chrome/nickel plating to chip & peel further. Therefore, when using on plated or lined items keep the solvent to a minimum. Hoppe's #9 does contain a water based Ammonia however, it is diluted.
 
Hmmm. I use hoppes. No problems...yet. Is the "damage" just cosmetic? I clean my guns after every shoot, and I clean my carry every couple of weeks to keep it lint free, etc.

While I would like to keep my carry piece pristine, it is an every day carry. If it is just cosmetic, I wouldn't worry about it (I don't know if the damage is limited to cosmetics - I assume it is, as it's just the finish).
 
ContinentalOp said:
Also, I probably wouldn't send it back to S&W for refinishing if they're just going to use the same process, even if they would do it for free. I would probably send it to a refinishing company like Robar and have a better quality finish applied that will likely last longer, even if it ends up costing more.
Click to expand...

Yes, the Henry Ford principle. (Same effort usually gets the same results.) Might as well try something different.

The old 442s could be obtained with an electroless nickel finish that would last for years and show minimal wear. I just gave my daughter mine. It has had a lot of use over the last approximately 20-years. When she saw it, her comment was that she had seen me putting the gun in a pocket off and on for as long as she could remember, and it still looks like new. It's not quite that tidy, but still a nice looking revolver. Shame the finish is not still available.

Incidentally, that gun has had more than a few cleanings using Hoppe's. Until a year or two ago, I did not know to avoid using it on nickeled guns.
 
Hoppe's No. 9 is used on a Model 642 I've had since 1998 with no detrimental effects to the surfaces.

I've long wondered just how damaging Hoppe's No. 9 really was to nickel. I once had an ancient .32-20 Hand Ejector that had a rough looking nickel finish. I'd always heard that Hoppe's No. 9 would cause nickel to flake and come off. I decided I'd just strip the remainder of the bad looking nickel off and thought to try Hoppe's No. 9 on it. I bathed the revolver in Hoppe's and left it overnight for many weeks. I left parts of that revolver soaking in Hoppe's No. 9 literally for months. Nothing happened. This would have been in the early 1980s.
 
Anyone tried Prolix? I use it on my nickel finish Smiths because it is "supposed" to be safe on nickel finishes. If it is safe for nickel, wouldn't it be safe for the M642 finish? Just asking.
 
This is another reason I'm not big on these "trendy" finishes.

Sounds like a S&W problem ~ not a Hoppes problem to me.

Give me a deep rich blued finish or brushed stainless any day.
 
I use Kroil to clean my 642-1 and don't have any finish issues yet. Wonder what you are supposed to use to remove copper fouling as ammonia is the standard copper remover??

S&W really did cheap-out on the finish with the water based clear coat, though I bought it as a deep concealment gun, so screw-it if it becomes an ugly duckling due to the clear peeling.
 
I use Birchwood Casey synthetic safe gun scrubber on my nickel Uberti and my 340M&P. I haven't had any problems yet. It's the most powerful "safe" gunk remover I've found. CLP whether breakfree or Otis is pretty weak in my opinion.
 
M29since14 said:
The old 442s could be obtained with an electroless nickel finish that would last for years and show minimal wear. I just gave my daughter mine. It has had a lot of use over the last approximately 20-years. When she saw it, her comment was that she had seen me putting the gun in a pocket off and on for as long as she could remember, and it still looks like new. It's not quite that tidy, but still a nice looking revolver. Shame the finish is not still available.
Click to expand...


I also had one of these 442s, but like an idiot traded it off a few months back for a pristine Highway Patrolman.
S&W still offers this finish. Its called glass bead nickel but its not available for stainless and costs $200.
 
FWIW, I use Mobile One auto motor oil to clean my M638, M38-2, Sig's and M&P. I put several drops on a brass bore brush and run it through several times. Then wipe it with dry patches, Then I run a lightly oiled patch down the bore. I also lube my guns with about a drop of the Mobile on the moving parts and pins.
 
I had an original 442-1 from '98 or so that held up really well for years of pocket carry and a couple thousand rounds.

I think it's baloney that S&W ships new 642's with a known crappy finish, so then consumers have to tiptoe around what to use on said finish, coat the gun with wax, etc...
 
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