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Old 09-22-2011, 01:24 PM
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Default Hoppes #9 will damage the Governor!

A call back from a S&W CS guy this AM revealed that the Melonite finish on the Governor can be damaged by the trace amount of ammonia in som gun solvents/cleaners - like good old Hoppes #9! Is nothing sacred? I never thought a gun was clean without the stench of Hoppes #9. He did say Hoppes Elite - and regular/synthetic gun oils are okay, too. Wow. Check the label.

Who would want to damage their lovely Governor's finish? Gads!

Stainz
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Old 09-22-2011, 01:37 PM
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I use Hoppes No9 on everything including my Governor and never experienced any finish damage. But then I don't soak the gun in the stuff.
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Old 09-22-2011, 02:25 PM
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I had never heard that the original Hoppe's #9[the cologne of all gunsmiths] ever had ammonia in it!!
They do make a Hoppe's with ammonia but not the original product of the ages.
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Old 09-22-2011, 03:26 PM
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I do believe the original and current formulas of Hoppes#9 have ammonia. Why else would you get the tell tale blue of the copper ammomnia complex when cleaniong with Hoppes#9?
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Old 09-22-2011, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 505Gibbs View Post
I had never heard that the original Hoppe's #9[the cologne of all gunsmiths] ever had ammonia in it!!
They do make a Hoppe's with ammonia but not the original product of the ages.
Up to 5%, per Hoppe's Material Safety Data Sheet

http://www.hoppes.com/msds/Hoppes9/MSDS_Tri-Pac_No_%209_Solvent-Liquid_Revision_1-3.pdf

S & W service dept......"Don't clean 642 revolver with Hoppes"
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Old 09-22-2011, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stainz View Post
A call back from a S&W CS guy this AM revealed that the Melonite finish on the Governor can be damaged by the trace amount of ammonia in som gun solvents/cleaners - like good old Hoppes #9! Is nothing sacred? I never thought a gun was clean without the stench of Hoppes #9. He did say Hoppes Elite - and regular/synthetic gun oils are okay, too. Wow. Check the label.

Who would want to damage their lovely Governor's finish? Gads!
Not me. Good info to know. I just got 1 of these babies a few weeks ago; I'd be bummed if I'd found out the hard way.

In checking out labels, noticed Hoppes cleaning kits are not U.S. made.

I was gonna get some more goodies for cleaning the Governor. And for other potential purchases.
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Old 09-22-2011, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mag318 View Post
I use Hoppes No9 on everything including my Governor and never experienced any finish damage.
No finish damage...yet.
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Old 09-22-2011, 05:54 PM
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Im curious,what is the finish made of that it will be damaged by Hoppes #9?And is this a legitimate concern, or is it S&W covering their legal butts from possible warranty issues unrelated to the actual risk of damaging the firearm with the solvent?
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Old 09-22-2011, 06:06 PM
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In original post, he said finish is made of Melonite. Just exactly what that is, I haven't looked up it's basic composition, but there ya go.
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Old 09-22-2011, 07:05 PM
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Melonite, also called Tenifer and several other names, is a finish that has been around for decades -- and a darned tough one. If #9 will hurt it, I'll drink a quart of the stuff.
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Old 09-22-2011, 08:24 PM
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Ammonia is present in some cleaners and used mainly to strip jacket fouling from the bore of high power rifles. Don't really see the need of it for routine cleaning jobs. Good old #9 doesn't have ammonia. My guns aren't really clean unless they sit in a tub of Hoppes #9 for about 24 hours(nickel excepted, of course!!!)
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Old 09-22-2011, 08:29 PM
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[QUOTE=OKFC05;136128963]Up to 5%, per Hoppe's Material Safety Data Sheet

http://www.hoppes.com/msds/Hoppes9/MSDS_Tri-Pac_No_%209_Solvent-Liquid_Revision_1-3.pdf


See this link as quoted above
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Old 09-23-2011, 02:55 AM
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I clean the inside of the barrel and chambers with Hoppes, which are Stainless Steel. I do not clean the frame with it! My sweat, from prolonged concealment, is far more dmaging to that finish. At current rates, my 642 will rot off my hip in about 172 1/2 years.... It ain't about pretty... It's a tool to be used.
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Old 09-23-2011, 07:52 AM
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I'm beginning to see a disturbing trend here...another member with a model 442 had the same issue:

S & W service dept......"Don't clean 642 revolver with Hoppes"

And here was my response:

Quote:
Scratch one model of S&W for me. For those that get wound up about the IL and MIM parts, that means nothing to me. But this one is a non-negotiable (for me). I had a nickel plated 8 3/8" Model 27 for about ten years, and always cleaned it with Hoppe's. I sold it (stupidly) for more than I paid as it looked new and hardly fired some ten years later. My grandfather introduced me to Hoppe's in 1972; his experience with it was as a machine gun platoon leader in WWI and and Infantryman for thirty six years, and swore by the stuff. I'm a retired Infantryman myself, and swear by it also; I cleaned M16s, M1911s, M60s, M240s, M9s, M4s, etc. (you get the idea) with it for years, with excellent results.

Tell me I can't use Hoppe's No. 9 to clean a firearm? May as well tell me I can't drink German beer.
As much as I would like to own a Governor, I don't see any reason to change my opinion. If a firearm is damaged in any way by Hoppe's, quality control alarm bells sound in my old retired brain.
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Old 09-23-2011, 01:36 PM
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For those of you who plan to avoid buying a specific model of S&W because the use of ammoniated solvents is not recommended...the S&W manual states:

"Ammoniated solvents or other strong alkaline solvents, should not be used on any Smith & Wesson firearm."

I'm not claiming that any or all S&W firearms may be damaged by the use of such, just that S&W themselves say not to use such solvents on any of their firearms.

Tim
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Old 09-23-2011, 03:31 PM
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You mean Hoppes #9 Deer Repellant?
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Old 09-23-2011, 03:49 PM
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I'm continuing to use Hoppe's No. 9 and I expect my guns to like it or else!

This is what happens when inferior materials and processes are utilized to produce firearms for general consumption and the consumer failed to recognize the cheapening of firearms. We now have a whole generation who doesn't know the difference and buys into the notion of "cheapo" guns.
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Old 09-24-2011, 08:37 AM
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Well, I am not shocked at the dismissal of new S&W's as furthering evidence of poor quality control or cheaper construction methods. It is clearly opinion, however, and not borne from fact. Hoppes #9 is ammoniated - that's how it removes copper residue - and the copper substrate on the worn edges of that old nickel plated revolver, causing it's nickel plating to bubble and peel (... and you thought it was just old!). It also has a propensity to soften water-based lacquer clearcoat and even Melonite finishes. Knowing this now - is a good thing!

I have always connoted the smell of Hoppes #9 as being that of a clean firearm. I will still clean my SS and blued firearms with it - I still have a small supply. I will find Hoppes 'Elite' and try it on my alloy firearms, now including a 296 & 642 - and - my one in Melonite - the Governor. I understand S&W's caution against ammoniated solvent use on any S&W - a broad paint stroke is easier to implement than a touch up brush. Besides, I'll bet that they are tired of refinishing 442's & 642's for free!

Stainz
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Old 09-24-2011, 09:10 AM
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Hoppes #9 is probably the oldest, and most commonly used gun cleaner out there. If S&W, a long time gun manufacturer, and supposed quality one at that, cannot figure out a way to use a finish that will not be damaged by such an iconic and trusted cleaner, then there is something wrong. I've used the newer cleaners, and I still always feel the need to use Hoppes. Guns just don't feel clean to me if they don't have that Hoppes smell.
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Old 09-24-2011, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pisgah View Post
Melonite, also called Tenifer and several other names, is a finish that has been around for decades -- and a darned tough one. If #9 will hurt it, I'll drink a quart of the stuff.
If Melonite is Tenifer....then there must be a ba-jillion Glocks that have been damaged. I just took a quick look at mine to verify the damage - but I could not find any. Lucky for me, I've been bathing my Glock in Hoppes for years.

Seriously - there are some very strong ammonia based bore cleaners available. All of the ones I have used warn against leaving it in the bore for more than XX minutes to prevent damage. They all also warn that it can damage the finish of firearms. I have never seen, or heard of, a firmarm actually damaged by one. I suspect that it is possible, or the warning would not be there, but also very unlikely.

Shooter686
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Old 09-24-2011, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbm6893 View Post
Guns just don't feel clean to me if they don't have that Hoppes smell.
What he said.
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Old 09-24-2011, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stainz View Post
Besides, I'll bet that they are tired of refinishing 442's & 642's for free!

Stainz
I don't know for a fact or from personal experience...but according to a poster on another thread, S&W will not refinish a 442 or 642 under warranty because the finish was damaged by an ammoniated solvent, because the manual specifically states not to do so. They will refinish it on your dime, including shipping costs.

Tim
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Old 09-24-2011, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pisgah View Post
Melonite, also called Tenifer and several other names, is a finish that has been around for decades -- and a darned tough one. If #9 will hurt it, I'll drink a quart of the stuff.
Pisgah, you ain't as tuff as your gun. I GARUNTEEEE drinkin' Hoppe's #9 will ruin your day, son..........
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Old 09-24-2011, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Bullzaye View Post
I don't know for a fact or from personal experience...but according to a poster on another thread, S&W will not refinish a 442 or 642 under warranty because the finish was damaged by an ammoniated solvent, because the manual specifically states not to do so. They will refinish it on your dime, including shipping costs.

Tim
That must be new because they refinished mine twice about 4-5 years ago. Free of charge all the way.
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Old 09-24-2011, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
For those of you who plan to avoid buying a specific model of S&W because the use of ammoniated solvents is not recommended...the S&W manual states:

"Ammoniated solvents or other strong alkaline solvents, should not be used on any Smith & Wesson firearm."
Well then, S&W is just setting itself up for disaster if all that is true as I would guess that few know that Hoppe's contains "ammoniated solvents", or that it can damage the finish on all S&W models. It's been around for as long as most models of S&Ws (and many others) since the early part of the 20th Century. And I'm not "dismissing" models of S&Ws, but I am certainly calling into question a finish that is damaged by one of the very best solvents on the market. I've tried dozens of military grade and civilian solvents on just about any type of finish you can name, Hoppe's is hand's down the very best. If the Governor (or any other model for that matter) can't handle the best solvent around, then here's my version of the Governor; a seventy-five year old Sauer drilling; 16gax16gax8mm Mauser. Good for just about anything you might ever want to shoot from rats to elephants and guess what; it just loves Hoppe's!
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Old 09-24-2011, 04:10 PM
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I've SOAKED blued and stainless Colts and S&Ws in Hoppe's #9 for days at a time w/o any problems. I have been doing this for decades. The "warning" not to use Hoppe's #9 on ANY S&W firearm is unwarranted. DO NOT use it on a nickel finish, it WILL ruin it.....
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Old 09-24-2011, 08:06 PM
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I believe the broad brush vs touchup brush scenario I alluded to earlier is key here. Clearly, Hoppes #9 won't damage blued CS or uncoated SS firearms - history, yours, mine, and many others, has proven that. I'll continue it's use on my blued and uncoated SS firearms, but endeavor to use something 'safer' on my coated alloy and Melonite finished firearms. I certainly wouldn't want a sticky/gooey finish to detract some future archaeologist's 'WTH were they thinking?' remarks when he digs up my Governor...

Would the fellow who offered to drink his Hoppes #9 please contact the 'Darwin Awards Review Committee' before doing so? The entries for this year's awards have been slow...

Stainz

PS Perhaps the 'ammoniated solvents' were causal in my 625MG's (A 625-6 & -7 in .45 Colt.) barrel 'laser etching' fading... they predate the instruction manual caution. Will S&W re-etch them?

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Old 09-25-2011, 01:44 AM
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Stainz, I doubt that the Hoppe's had a part in obliterating the laser etching on your MG. The etching is VERY easily removed by the abrasion of normal wiping down over time. S&W WILL re-etch your MG for a fee........
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Old 09-25-2011, 02:09 AM
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I stopped using Hoppes in the 80s, I see no reason to use it with so many other cleaners that work.
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Old 09-25-2011, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbm6893 View Post
That must be new because they refinished mine twice about 4-5 years ago. Free of charge all the way.
Your finish was damaged by Hoppes, or some other ammoniated solvent?

Yeah, as I'd said...this was second hand info from another poster. Not sure if he got bad info, or what. It may be true that S&W has and/or still will refinish 442/642s.

I just bought a used 642, and I guess I will avoid using Hoppes, just to be safe. Hopefully. I'll never discover firsthand what S&W's policy truly is on refinishing these.

Tim
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